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LTTP: Sonic Riders and Zero Gravity - Tony Hawk X Sonic = Back to the Future Racing?

RK128

Member
I'm making threads to talk about the Sonic series and played these two games recently:

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256px-SonicRiders2.PNG


You all remember Sonic's past attempts at racing? No, not the All Stars Racing series (which are amazing and are stronger then Mario Kart at points). We got Sonic Drift 1 & 2 on the Game Gear (which are decent handheld racing games but not the best ever made) and Sonic R (made a thread about this classic here. Super Sonic Racing XD!) but the Riders series is very strange.

Instead of making a Sonic R sequel or something where everyone runs.....Sega thought "Mmm.....Tony Hawk + Racing + Hoverboards......this could work, people loved the snowboarding in past 3D Sonics. Okay, guys, lets make this racer :D!" and thus we got Riders 1 on PS2, GC and Xbox.

The original game is tricky, as it has a STRONG learning curve X(.

You have the following mechanics to deal with:
-Air Gauge that acts as your fuel; run out of it and you start running (which is slower then riding)
-Three types; Flight, Power, Speed. Flight has you flying through rings, Power has you punching through objects on the track, Speed lets you grind on rails
-Trick System that has various grades. The higher the grade, the more Air you get when you land. You hold the A button before jumping off ramps and then flick the stick in any direction many times. Land on the ground before your trick ends and it counts.
-Boost: Every character has an attack that gets better as you level up (talk about that soon). Uses Air Gauge for attacks.
-Drifting: Lets you turn sharp turns with the L/R buttons. Uses a lot of Air so don't over-use this.
-Leveling up: You level up to three times. Each level makes your attack stronger and raises your Air Gauge amount level 3 is giant compared to the medium-size level 1)

For a what should be a simple kart racer? This is a lot to take in when you boot up the game XD! I know I hated this when I played it when I was little. But going back to it a few years ago, I really love the hidden depth.

Nailing a hard trick, grinding rails back to back, not loosing air at all during a race and finding the hidden short cuts; it feels really rewarding and makes the hidden depth of this game all the more stronger.

The visuals and music are strong, though the latter is the best part of the package. Its very heavy on the techno-sound for the ost and it works really well when mixing in other elements like with the Sand Ruins track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JxGAycoH0E&list=PL099F2A351C0C81F8&index=10

Also love the theme of Babylon Guardian too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek8l_1E-AxM&index=13&list=PL099F2A351C0C81F8. The Sega Carnival track is an amazing unlockable with a strong track for the level: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kYkJYRY-QE&list=PL099F2A351C0C81F8&index=19

The rest of the OST is here but its a good soundtrack I feel.

We also got a Story Mode for both games, with two stories to explore. For a racing game, they are decent and well acted. Considering the OTHER Sonic's coming out at this time (2006; one year after Shadow and the same year as 06), its very strong honestly :).

The visuals are decent:
sonic-riders-20060223060358872-000.jpg

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Looks to run on the same Engine as Heroes and is a nice mix between future and colorful locations.

The big issue is the amount of tracks, as there are only 5-7 tracks in the whole game. This happened with Sonic R too but unlike that game, we have a lot of content to sink into; story mode, a mission mode which is quite long, and a number of MP modes to play.

Overall, good racing game that is very hard to just jump into.

- - - - - - - - -

Sonic Riders got a sequel in 2008 called Zero Gravity and I personally really enjoyed this game a lot :D.

Like the original Riders, it has a two stories to play through, lots of missions to complete and some fixes over the original Riders.

Unlike the original Riders, tricks are now mapped to using the A button/X button at the right time during ramps, making it a lot more inviting compared to the original. Gear also works differently, as the leveling up system is gone and replaced with a new mechanic called Gear Change. Every ride you get has 2 or 3 changes that can be activiated when you collect X amount of rings on the track. These also unlock new forms for your rides to activiate the different element abilities (Speed, Power, Flight); gives grater importance to ring collection on the track.

Fixes over the original continue with no more fuel for your ride; it works naturally and its replaced with Gravity powers. You can use the B/Square button to do a Gravity Drift, which can either let you navagate tricky corners or actively race on walls. Another power is the Gravity Boost, which lets you fly in the air forward, with every thing you hit giving you more gravity to continue the boost.

If this all sounds easier then the original game, it is. That was why I love this more; just easy to play through a few races with simplified mechanics.

The tracks are more frequent (with 12 tracks instead of 6) and the music is really damn good.

Ungravitify
Trough Traffic
Aquatic Time
Sealed Ground
The Core

Main Menu Theme

I love all these tracks and they really make race stronger. After using gravity powers, the tracks shift and move to different parts of the track (tempo gets higher for example). Overall, a really strong soundtrack.

The playable cast increased over the original, with Silver & Blaze joining in on the fun. There are also secret Sega characters in both games and if you want to know who they are, spoilers :).
Sonic Riders: Nights, Aiai, Ulala
Zero Gravity: Nights, Samba, Billy Hatcher

The Wii version and PS2 version are different from one another; the former supports the GC controller and had online leader boards. The PS2 version is more or less the same.

Zero Gravity is a game I have a lot of respect for, as it felt like Sonic Team 'got' the racing style they tried to make with the original Riders. Its a much better game to me at the very least and overall, solid racer. Just use the GC controller if you are getting the Wii version; motion controls suck for racing game like this :l.

Some screen shots of the Wii version, as it looks better compared to the GC original:
10054ss_stg04_008.jpg

sonic-riders-zero-gravity-20070919092617076.jpg
 

Camjo-Z

Member
People seem to lump it in with the other mediocre Sonic games of that era, but Riders is a legitimately good game, worth playing just for the SEGA cameo stuff alone. Not only are there two tracks based entirely around going through sections based on Chu Chu Rocket/Samba de Amigo/Crazy Taxi/etc., but you can even get bikes that change the BGM to themes from Hang-On and Super Hang-On.
 

RK128

Member
People seem to lump it in with the other mediocre Sonic games of that era, but Riders is a legitimately good game, worth playing just for the SEGA cameo stuff alone. Not only are there two tracks based entirely around going through sections based on Chu Chu Rocket/Samba de Amigo/Crazy Taxi/etc., but you can even get bikes that change the BGM to themes from Hang-On and Super Hang-On.

The impression I get about Riders is that it came out at a very bad year for the series; coming off a really horrid game and a horrid game + horrid port of the original Sonic coming after this? Must have paint a very dark image for what really is a great racing game.

I liked that track too :).
 

DMNBT

Neo Member
The problem people had at the time with the first Riders was that it was just too hard to get good at, and given the recent Sonic games, nobody was sure if it was really worth the effort. For what is worth, I loved both games.
 

SephLuis

Member
I remember playing one of them on PC and really liking it.

The game was actually very fun in higher difficulties.
 
Always thought Riders were a clunkier kirby Air Ride, but I still had fun. Zero Gravity was kinda awful to me, but that's maybe because I played it once and never really bothered again. I did like the music change when you did that gravity boost thing.
 
I played the shit out of Riders when it came out. Such good times. Even in retrospect, I think it was a pretty good game.

You're right that it was surprisingly complex. I remember some of the later story missions were total hell with the AI - I spent probably around over an hour replaying the last Hero one. I loved all the Sega cameos and references too - those two Sega Carnival courses were awesome!

Zero Gravity was okay too but I never played it as much as the first one. It was fun though. Also its main menu theme was actually really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vv6BSDJ8aw
 

RK128

Member
I played the shit out of Riders when it came out. Such good times. Even in retrospect, I think it was a pretty good game.

You're right that it was surprisingly complex. I remember some of the later story missions were total hell with the AI - I spent probably around over an hour replaying the last Hero one. I loved all the Sega cameos and references too - those two Sega Carnival courses were awesome!

Zero Gravity was okay too but I never played it as much as the first one. It was fun though. Also its main menu theme was actually really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vv6BSDJ8aw

I know exactly the one you are talking about.....that was really hard X(.

I like how the original was complex, gave it hidden depth and encouraged replays to master the tracks.

Zero Gravity is more simplified compared to the original, so I can understand why some prefer the original to that.
 

NotLiquid

Member
I didn't have nearly as much fun with Riders as I'd hoped when I first got it. But eventually I got good at it and I have to say, it was a really grand time.

What kind of killed it for me was that because the learning curve was just that high, this game was almost impossible for me to play with friends locally.

Zero Gravity was... kind of better in this regard. I can't say why I prefer one over the other. I actually much prefer the art aesthetic and the music in that game though and would say it has some of the best music in any Sonic game period. The main theme of Zero Gravity is no joke my absolute favorite Sonic main theme. It gets me pumped every time I hear it. Generally speaking Zero Gravity has my absolute favorite audio visual presentation in terms of Sonic games, as crazy as that might sound.
 

RK128

Member
I didn't have nearly as much fun with Riders as I'd hoped when I first got it. But eventually I got good at it and I have to say, it was a really grand time.

What kind of killed it for me was that because the learning curve was just that high, this game was almost impossible for me to play with friends locally.

Zero Gravity was... kind of better in this regard. I can't say why I prefer one over the other. I actually much prefer the art aesthetic and the music in that game though and would say it has some of the best music in any Sonic game period. The main theme of Zero Gravity is no joke my absolute favorite Sonic main theme. It gets me pumped every time I hear it.

I agree with you; the learning curve really didn't have to be that high :(. Killed the game for many but I love the original now thanks to its hidden depth.

I also agree with Un-Gravitify being such a great track. Had it on my iPod for a long time and really loved using it when playing stages/bosses in Generations (unlockable track).

Edit: Saw the rest of your post and I like how it looks visually and sound wise. It nailed the future look they tried to make with the original game and it has such a good 'style' to everything.

I will talk about that when I cover Black Knight but I love how that game looks presentation wise/sound wise too.
 

RK128

Member
Zero Gravity has the greatest main menu theme in existence.

edit: oh I see this has already been documented, as it should be.

I remember preferring ZG a bit, but I played the first game a lot more. Both definitely a lot of fun, though 1's difficulty was no joke.

Riders 1 was very hard X(. But it is so good when you beat a tricky race or nail that hidden route. I guess that was why Sonic Team made the game so hard, to make its mechanics really deep and rewarding.
 

RK128

Member
The original Riders was actually surprisingly good. It takes a while to get used to the controls , but it has a decent amount of depth. They should actually try to make a real sequel to it again.

What are you talking about, we got one of the 360 using the amazing Kinect ;).

To be serious, I agree, would love a real sequel to Zero Gravity and the original.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
I was obsessed with Sonic Riders, the music and the gameplay was just fun to play despite the game steep learning curve.

I also kept the Omochao announcer on.

I didn't get Zero gravity as I didn't like how they got rid of the air mechanic for the gravity mechanic and I am not touching Sonic Free Rider as you can only play with the Kinect.
 

RK128

Member
I was obsessed with Sonic Riders, the music and the gameplay was just fun to play despite the game steep learning curve.

I also kept the Omochao announcer on.

I didn't get Zero gravity as I didn't like how they got rid of the air mechanic for the gravity mechanic and I am not touching Sonic Free Rider as you can only play with the Kinect.

I recommend you try out Zero Gravity if you have the chance; it has good track design and the gravity mechanic is good. Its different from the original but the same 'core' is still intact. Completely understand why you would not like Zero Gravity though; radical shift in some major mechanics for a sequel can turn anyone off a game.
 
I beat it as a kid - playing through it on OG Xbox right now and Babylon Garden is so easier than I remembered. It's all down to learning how it air meter works.
 

Shadoken

Member
I agree with you; the learning curve really didn't have to be that high :(. Killed the game for many but I love the original now thanks to its hidden depth.

It really makes me sad when Titles fail because of steep learning curve :(

I truly believe SEGA should revisit this franchise , it genuinely captures the Speed and even platforming to an extend. A proper Remaster with Online MP would be amazing.

Sonic Riders for EVO 2017
 

Gattuso

Member
after fully completing both games with everything done, I always liked the first game more than the second one since I felt like the races just flowed better than in ZG due to the whole stopping briefly to take a shortcut or alternate path with the gravity mechanics. I didn't think it was a bad change, just one that made the races feel somewhat slower.

I never felt the original was too hard to master and play when getting up there in difficulty outside of the final races for each side. getting all the gold emblems in mission mode was pretty time consuming though as one screw up meant a restart most of the time. I enjoyed both soundtracks though and like ZG over the first one.

I kinda wish the opening video for the original wasn't the only thing animated in that game or that they did one for the second game since I really liked it.
 

RK128

Member
It really makes me sad when Titles fail because of steep learning curve :(

I truly believe SEGA should revisit this franchise , it genuinely captures the Speed and even platforming to an extend. A proper Remaster with Online MP would be amazing.

Sonic Riders for EVO 2017

I don't even think it failed; it got a sequel after all. Its just that it came out at a really bad time (after Shadow and before 06 & Sonic Genesis), so people were 'done' with Sonic by the time the game came out I imagine.

Sega might remaster a few Sonic titles this year due to the anniversary and while I expect the modern games to be the first ones to get that if it happens (Colors, Unleashed, Generations), I would love Riders HD with online MP too :).
 

exfatal

Member
Riders was an awesome game loved the first one but rotating the c-stick near the end got intense during my multiplayer sessions. gravity sucked though imo
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
I recommend you try out Zero Gravity if you have the chance; it has good track design and the gravity mechanic is good. Its different from the original but the same 'core' is still intact. Completely understand why you would not like Zero Gravity though; radical shift in some major mechanics for a sequel can turn anyone off a game.

Yeah I will probably check out Zero Gravity, it will be interesting to see how dropping the air mechanic changes the game play.
 
Here's a question. Who here has personally played Zero Gravity on BOTH Wii and PS2?

I'm curious of the graphical and performance differences. From videos, there are some cutbacks on PS2 including in Botanical Kingdom where A LOT of geometry was cut. Also textures took a big hit.
 

RK128

Member
Here's a question. Who here has personally played Zero Gravity on BOTH Wii and PS2?

I'm curious of the graphical and performance differences. From videos, there are some cutbacks on PS2 including in Botanical Kingdom where A LOT of geometry was cut. Also textures took a big hit.

I never played the PS2 version but watch Clement's playthrough of Zero Gravity if you want an idea what the PS2 version is like.

He plays the game using the PS2 version, so you can see what differences/ect from the PS2 version too the Wii one :).

Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8T9ygUUGzU&list=PL45FXiU5g2Q_4X3Vanq9Y9n_FO6YUARcG
 

kinn

Member
Never knew these were decent games. I remember them not getting decent reviews though.

What about the Psp racer game? Never played them myself .

https:en.wikipedia.orgwikiSonic_Rivals
 

DeVeAn

Member
I thought they were great and was bummed when the 3rd one was KINECT game. Soundtracks was great too.
 

RK128

Member
Never knew these were decent games. I remember them not getting decent reviews though.

What about the Psp racer game? Never played them myself .

https:en.wikipedia.orgwikiSonic_Rivals

I own both games on my Vita and need to play them before commenting on them :l. I will make a thread covering both, but I need to actually play them first.

Its one of the very few times where I try to play a Sonic game and.....it just doesn't grab me at all :l. They are not bad games and to be honest, sit alongside the DS Rush games and Riders as some of the better games during the 2005-2007 years for the series (though Secret Rings is fun after you play enough of it, just the motion controls take a while to get used to).

The way both games work is that its like a standard 2D sonic title but with the gimmick of another racer following you and its, well, a race to the end before the other person. You use power ups and a special attack along the way.

It SOUNDS fun but from my limited experience (an hour playing Rivals 2), its only okay.

Again, will talk about that in a future thread but for now, its one of the few times I can say 'skip it' and you really won't miss anything. Maybe I'm missing something but at least the PSP got some sonic titles on it. Vita only got Racing Transformed :'(.
 

kinn

Member
I own both games on my Vita and need to play them before commenting on them :l. I will make a thread covering both, but I need to actually play them first.

Its one of the very few times where I try to play a Sonic game and.....it just doesn't grab me at all :l. They are not bad games and to be honest, sit alongside the DS Rush games and Riders as some of the better games during the 2005-2007 years for the series (though Secret Rings is fun after you play enough of it, just the motion controls take a while to get used to).

The way both games work is that its like a standard 2D sonic title but with the gimmick of another racer following you and its, well, a race to the end before the other person. You use power ups and a special attack along the way.

It SOUNDS fun but from my limited experience (an hour playing Rivals 2), its only okay.

Again, will talk about that in a future thread but for now, its one of the few times I can say 'skip it' and you really won't miss anything. Maybe I'm missing something but at least the PSP got some sonic titles on it. Vita only got Racing Transformed :'(.

Thanks for the info!
 

bman94

Member
I had Sonic Riders on the original Xbox. It was hard but I enjoyed it. When I heard they were making a sequel I was excited. When I got it for the Wii I was extremely disappointed. I gave the game away. I wanted it to be good, I really did.


The line is great but God is the delivery awful. That was the worst Sonic voice actor ever (even worse than Jaleel White in my opinion).
 

djlr181

Member
I really enjoyed the first Sonic Riders on GameCube. Felt like F-Zero influenced Sonic racing. I agree that the game could get quite difficult. Was a bit frustrating at times. Might have to pick it up again if I can find a copy.
 
The first Sonic Riders is one of my greatest guilty pleasures. I don't think it's a good game, but damn there are some things about it that feel really good.

Like the tension and release of the trick system. Charging up your jump and releasing it at the right time to get a boost to your trick speed and MASSIVE height is extremely satisfying. Drifting around corners feels super great too, once you get the hang of it.

What makes the first Sonic Riders so difficult is the slipstream system and the "air is fuel" system. In most racing games, slipstreams are just something you get for following behind a car. It's an aerodynamics thing. In Sonic Riders, racers make "waves" of slipstreamed air that you can surf, but slipstreams are something you get locked in to or out of, and it's possible to get trapped in a slipstream by accident, and when you have a racing game with different character classes, getting trapped in the wrong character's slipstream can be legitimately disastrous.

Having a fuel system sucks, too, because it means every action you do has to be carefully considered and rationed out or else you run out of fuel and get left in the dust. Your fuel tanks get expanded as you collect more rings and level up, but if you get attacked by another character even ONCE it's often enough to get completely fucked over and lose the entire race. Sonic Riders is a game that demands ABSOLUTE, UNFLINCHING PERFECTION IN EXECUTION at all times.

It's awesome once you understand its weird systems and can be the kind of perfect it expects you to be, but BOY can that feel like a long road when you first start out.

By comparison, Zero Gravity dumbs things down quite a bit but also dulls or removes the things I thought had the best "gamefeel" from the first one. So, at least to me, it ends up being kind of a boring, easy game.
 
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