I loved Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword a whole lot more than my time with Wind Waker so far. While they both have their issues too, I don't recall any time like the sequence of sailing I described above for Wind Waker.
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LTTP: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD (OH MY GOD SO MUCH SAILING)
- Thread starter dLMN8R
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I loved Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword a whole lot more than my time with Wind Waker so far. While they both have their issues too, I don't recall any time like the sequence of sailing I described above for Wind Waker.
I would get this if there was anything worthwhile to do while sailing from point to point. It was just so barren and featureless the vast majority of the time. What's worse is since your speed was tied to wind direction, it limited detours and fine control. I haven't played WWHD because I don't have a desire to replay WW but in the original sailing was basically a long loading screen.
I beat it just last week, after beating TP HD.
I still loved it. Sailing is wonderful, it's just the most peaceful experience. The world is sadly devoid of truly interesting places to see but that doesn't mean that sailing in and of itself isn't great.
The game is just gorgeous, and has charm for days. Both the visuals and story are better than BotW, for example. You really care about that little munchkin Link.
The game is brain-dead easy, even on hero mode, but it didn't bother me. And the improvements to the figuring side-quest made that actually a lot of fun.
TP has better dungeons and gameplay but nothing in it beats the experience of just setting out and sailing the seas, seeing what you'll find. Still one of my favourite games, flaws be damned.
I still loved it. Sailing is wonderful, it's just the most peaceful experience. The world is sadly devoid of truly interesting places to see but that doesn't mean that sailing in and of itself isn't great.
The game is just gorgeous, and has charm for days. Both the visuals and story are better than BotW, for example. You really care about that little munchkin Link.
The game is brain-dead easy, even on hero mode, but it didn't bother me. And the improvements to the figuring side-quest made that actually a lot of fun.
TP has better dungeons and gameplay but nothing in it beats the experience of just setting out and sailing the seas, seeing what you'll find. Still one of my favourite games, flaws be damned.
The fetch quest was actually nowhere near as bad as people say. it takes about 30-45 minutes max and is nothing like the endless filler that was present in Skyward Sword. Nor is it the worst on the GameCube because Prime 2 was worse in this regard.
Sailing was a big part of what made Wind Waker my favorite of the 3D Zeldas but I certainly understand why someone wouldn't like it.
Sure there's not much to find and every 2D Zelda is a better game, but at least WW brought back feelings of exploration. Unlike all other 3D Zeldas. At least it did that much.
Sure there's not much to find and every 2D Zelda is a better game, but at least WW brought back feelings of exploration. Unlike all other 3D Zeldas. At least it did that much.
KiefbladeMaster
Member
I didn't bother finishing Wind Waker at all, easily my least favorite. Boring dungeons, boring exploration.
Bloodporne
Member
I would've liked sailing as an actual activity but it ended up boiling down steering in the right direction once and essentially doing a lot of waiting as the thing just went there on its own.
They should've done something with it that was more interactive in my opinion.
I still really like Wind Waker but the sailing most certainly turned into a chore for me about halfway through the game tops.
They should've done something with it that was more interactive in my opinion.
I still really like Wind Waker but the sailing most certainly turned into a chore for me about halfway through the game tops.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
Spieler Eins
Member
It's a sea devoid of anything that would make a fun sea adventure. Terrible game. The fact that this out of all Zelda games is one that doesn't have fishing perfectly highlights its laughably wasted potential.
Sword Of Doom
Member
I never played the original GameCube version and can't imagine playing without it.
Radical Edward
Member
WW and MM are the best. OoT is much more boring, tbh
I'm sorry, but even as someone who adores Wind Waker, you cannot tell me with a straight face that the endgame fetch quest will take "30-45 minutes max" for the average player. Maybe if you're only referring to collecting the treasures after you're done collecting all the charts, but certainly not for the entire questline.
FunkyPajamas
Member
*internet high five*
Every single grid in the map has something to see and interact with, sometimes even visit (i.e. get out of the boat). If you're just going to an adjacent grid then sure, there might not be much to see/do in between two adjacent grids, but then we're not talking a long distance/sail time. If you're going from one quest to another, you're usually sailing for a while which means you're going to see lots of stuff. Once you get the ability to change wind direction you can pretty much go anywhere so, again, unless you're just playing to beat the game, you're going to be going out of your way a lot to visit all the landmarks you can see in the distance. I understand I'm in the minority here, but I just loved sailing so much that by the time I got the Triforce fetch quest I had already recovered most of the pieces because I just kept sailing all over the place, discovering new stuff and loving every minute of it.
Like real sailing? You can't gain speed against the wind. Not sure what you mean by fine control, sorry.
I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. That's like saying walking around in Metroid Prime is a long loading screen. I'm not trying to convince you that Wind Waker is the best Zelda or anything. I'm honestly just here to say "I love sailing in the game and it was never a problem for me".
I'd prefer if you dialed back the hyperbole a bit in case you want to continue the discussion.
Oh i meant the HD version. The Gamecube version is definitely a hour and a half long but even then people act like its this impossibly tedious thing When in fact there are far worse games out there with this kind of thing . I guess it all depends how much exploration a player has done up until that point . i mostly leave most of the side quests and exploration till the end of the game so i can pick up the Triforce pieces along the way making it much more manageable.
As for the OP i cant imagine how much time he would have saved by now if he had gotten the Swift Sail immediately after Dragons Roost island.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
The Wind Waker is my favourite video game, but it imposes one of the sharpest divisions I've ever seen between players like me who openly defy instructions and objectives to poke around every permissible corner of the world, and players whose priority is to follow the critical path. (On the GameCube it never even occurred to me that the endgame quest was a hindrance to anybody until I saw the complaints on the Internet; it fell so naturally into my pattern of exploration.) This is a game that shows you which category you fall into very quickly, and if you don't take to it at first, nothing much will change your mind later on.
Greatest Ever
Member
Even the HD version's Triforce Quest is stupidly long, and the objectives all fucking suck.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Pretty much my thoughts on the issue. Well said.
I love Wind Waker, but 'wasted potential' is a label that certainly sticks to the game.
You expect more. More dungeons, more towns, more gameplay mechanics, more unique enemies. It feels rushed and small.
But any game based at sea and sailing is a game after my own heart, then add in my favourite graphical style of all time and I'm in heaven no matter what the flaws are.
This is a great point. I've beaten the game 3, maybe 4 times and never had to do any 'triforce hunt' beyond one or two extra pieces. Sailing the world for fun had taken care of that long before I decided to challenge the final two dungeons.
Windwaker was the Zelda game that got me and my little brother into the Zelda series so we have a lot of fond memories of it, having said that the game does feel under cooked and it was pretty clear that a lot of content got cut from the game, like the dungeon for the third pearl.
But do you what? It's still my favorite Zelda game because I love the sailing, story, the characters and music. Plus Windwaker introduced stealing enemies weapons and how the enemies react to that, both which got greatly expanded on with Breath of the Wild.
My biggest wish is that Nintendo one day does a full on remake for the Windwaker so it can reach its full potential or at least another game in the series.
But do you what? It's still my favorite Zelda game because I love the sailing, story, the characters and music. Plus Windwaker introduced stealing enemies weapons and how the enemies react to that, both which got greatly expanded on with Breath of the Wild.
My biggest wish is that Nintendo one day does a full on remake for the Windwaker so it can reach its full potential or at least another game in the series.
Weakest one but still has some really strong redeeming qualities, it was the first to feature an expansive open game world (albeit obviously limited) and the game is simply gorgeous at times.
Having skipped Wii U I really hope it gets re released on Switch.
Cipher Peon
Banned
I find your perspective fascinating, because I thought there wasn't enough sailing in the game. The game never really incentivized the sailing until the Triforce Hunt, which is by far the best part of the game imo.
Wish there was more sailing and exploring the world than dungeons that don't play to the game's strengths.
Wish there was more sailing and exploring the world than dungeons that don't play to the game's strengths.
I'm mostly talking about getting to the one point of interest in each quadrant but even those points of interest aren't all that interesting. Most have something going on but even then they are either behind story events or inaccessible until you have the appropriate item. Which would be fine, if traversal to those points didn't take so long and wasn't boring.
By fine control, I mean more like a car or Epona but I guess the bigger issue is that sailing doesn't offer much interactivity. In WW, it's pretty much just go in the direction of the wind.
Also it's a video game, so real world comparisons in and of itself are moot. Ignoring that the game doesn't need to have a sailboat for traversal, that doesn't mean it needs to be so slow and boring. We're talking about a game where you can control the direction of the wind with a baton. It's not a sim, they have the ability to not conform to the real world.
In Metroid Prime, getting point to point around involves more than pointing in a direction and letting the game play out. There are obstacles, platforming, enemies, multiple paths, and the world itself is way more interesting than a flat featureless ocean. I'm not being hyperbolic, I played Wind Waker with the Tingle Tuner because after a while it was more interesting to do something else than just watch the boat go in a straight line.
If the sailing itself wasn't so boring I could somewhat agree, but as is it punishes you for going off the path by making getting back on the path tedious. Moreover, WW has a pretty strict path through the game, with several places locked off until you progress. Compare that to something like what BotW is trying to do where they give you the tools at the outset to explore the world instead of nagging you back to the critical path.
Mohonky
Member
Yeh I did too. I found it calming. Having to change the wind directionnon GC got bitnof a chore somwtimes, but with the special sail in the HD version, I just found the game amazing.
You could in AC4. Checkmate atheists.
AC4 suuuucked. Seriously a sailing game that lets you sail against the wind is so ridiculously bad, I don't care what the rest of the game does
Cipher Peon
Banned
Not sure why this is an unpopular opinion.
The Triforce Hunt says "See this open world we've been ignoring up to this point? Explore it! Find and conquer mini dungeons, sail to your heart's content, find secrets of the ocean, don't get bogged down by obtuse and infuriating dungeons!"
Up to the Triforce Hunt, the sea just came across as a very long level select screen that had interesting things happening on in the background but no reason to explore it. I just went from place to place. The nonlinearity of the Hunt along with the challenges it throws at you are amazing.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Swift Sail is a must. A MUST. Extremely tedious without it.
Master Yoshi
Member
I'd love to see the Breath of the Wild team take on another Zelda based around island hopping and sailing.
FunkyPajamas
Member
But pretty much every Zelda with an overworld does this (LTTP being the exception I suppose). You either walk around or ride Epona and see stuff in the distance. Either it's something you can access right away and it gives you a heart container or rupees, or it's locked behind an item and it gives you a heart container or rupees (or in very few cases, a new item or something more interesting than heart/rupees). The only difference is the act of sailing vs the act of riding a horse or rolling everywhere. Just like sailing in Wind Waker doesn't seem to be that interesting or engaging to you, the same happens with the points of interest. I liked them. Sometimes I'd run into a sea monster, sometimes I'd find a small island or something else that I could interact with. It kept me entertained. I would play with the camera while sailing, looking around in the distance until some landmark appeared just as a silhouette in the horizon. I'd stop, get my spyglass out and decide whether I wanted to go there or not (most often that not I would go there). Only once the game was nearing its end I would zip from one destination to the other because by then I had pretty much explored everything. It seems to be a matter of preferences, really. I'm super interested in BotW, but I would take sailing over Epona. I just love the ocean.
And to be honest, the one thing I wish Wind Waker had (besides more/better dungeons) is the ability to dive underwater at specific points. Like a sunken ship, or a coral reef. It would have been magic.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I know it's not quite what you had in mind, but you can make the boat jump. I used that for quick turns and avoiding enemies (sharks, etc).
I'm not sure how to respond to this, honestly. The base mechanic for traversal borrows the most basic elements from it's real world counterpart: it moves on water, it uses wind. That's it. Of course it's not a sim. You're right that the game doesn't need a sail boat for traversal. It could have used a steam boat, or a glider or something similar. Again, I just happen to like the sailing. I'm not trying to convince anybody to love it.
You're right, it was a bad comparison on my end. I was thinking more of some corridors where there's really not much to do but push forward, but that's really not the majority of the areas in Metroid Prime.
Nintendo always one step behind.
The bolded is mind blowing to me, really. Ignoring? Why? Do you buy games just to get to the end? Like, why wouldn't you start exploring that vast open world the second you get the ability to change the wind's direction? What's wrong with you people. It's not like the game gave you a countdown timer to get to the next dungeon and beat the boss. So weird.
Cipher Peon
Banned
I am a very goal oriented person. I love chasing accomplishments and getting to a designated end point. I don't sprint towards the finish, but the end is my main objective. When the open world opens up, I head to the next objective, especially if the game doesn't say "Hey here's some cool stuff you can do in the mean time." This is one of the many reasons why I find Skyrim so appealing because I'm off doing the main objective and then something AWESOME happens in the mean time and my priorities shift.
A game should encourage me to see everything it has to offer and I strongly feel that Wind Waker doesn't until the Triforce Hunt.
There is nothing wrong with me, I just happen to have different priorities than you, it's not really that big of a deal. It's not weird at all.
I stepped back in this for a minute this week too!
Personally I liked the sailing back then and I like it now for the sense of vastness it gives the game. Somebody should make another open-world game set in an archipelago where you move a lot between sea and land. But it's a really subjective thing. It's basically dependent on whether you actually like traversal as a game mechanic in itself. A lot of people don't.
Otherwise I'm kind of struck by how linear this game feels. Maybe it's because I've only been able to make it to the 2nd dungeon so far. Maybe I just haven't played a main Zelda game since all these open-world games started coming out. Back in 03 though I remember having a lot of fun exploring all the islands, just trying to find out what was on each one. The downside to this is once you figure out there's one island for every grid sector the exploration kind of becomes predictable. It even becomes repetitive once you start looking for the one treasure and the one fish dude that's in each sector.
I do like how Zelda games give players a lot less information up-front than stuff like Assassin's Creed and even Witcher 3 though. I miss having to figure out stuff just from looking at the environment. It's just that things had gotten so formulaic by this point that anyone who had played Ocarina of Time could look around and figure out what item they would need for what area.
OP is right on the fetch quest stuff. Wasn't that just filler because they had to cut like three dungeons from the game?
In all these 3D Zelda games going back to Ocarina though the dungeons are what hold up the most.
Personally I liked the sailing back then and I like it now for the sense of vastness it gives the game. Somebody should make another open-world game set in an archipelago where you move a lot between sea and land. But it's a really subjective thing. It's basically dependent on whether you actually like traversal as a game mechanic in itself. A lot of people don't.
Otherwise I'm kind of struck by how linear this game feels. Maybe it's because I've only been able to make it to the 2nd dungeon so far. Maybe I just haven't played a main Zelda game since all these open-world games started coming out. Back in 03 though I remember having a lot of fun exploring all the islands, just trying to find out what was on each one. The downside to this is once you figure out there's one island for every grid sector the exploration kind of becomes predictable. It even becomes repetitive once you start looking for the one treasure and the one fish dude that's in each sector.
I do like how Zelda games give players a lot less information up-front than stuff like Assassin's Creed and even Witcher 3 though. I miss having to figure out stuff just from looking at the environment. It's just that things had gotten so formulaic by this point that anyone who had played Ocarina of Time could look around and figure out what item they would need for what area.
OP is right on the fetch quest stuff. Wasn't that just filler because they had to cut like three dungeons from the game?
In all these 3D Zelda games going back to Ocarina though the dungeons are what hold up the most.
Death Metalist
Member
The Great Sea though.
Wind Waker is a nice relaxing time that never feels urgent or taxing, and ends without the antagonists ever feeling like a threat. The ocean is beautiful, the music is rousing, there is little to do, and what there is to do takes too damn long.
I've played through it several times, and enjoy it most when I map out each square on physical paper, fill out objectives I've completed, objectives I've yet to complete, and areas of interest I'd like to return to with new items. The square makeup of the map lends itself to this type of play. It reminds me of the original NES Zelda in this way.
I've played through it several times, and enjoy it most when I map out each square on physical paper, fill out objectives I've completed, objectives I've yet to complete, and areas of interest I'd like to return to with new items. The square makeup of the map lends itself to this type of play. It reminds me of the original NES Zelda in this way.
After playing Breath of the Wild for a couple of hours on Wii U, the differences to Wind Waker couldn't be more stark. Open world exploration that's actually meaningful. Characters which seem interesting. Purpose to going off the beaten path. Only a couple of hours in, I can highly recommend it to anyone who had my same issues with Wind Waker.
I'm glad that many people enjoy the sailing in Wind Waker, and I did at first too. The first time I sailed island to island I agree it was peaceful, beautiful, and a nice change of pace.
But the game completely blew it during the sequence of events I described in the OP. Literally two straight hours of nothing but sailing, and every single time I tried to go off the main path I was rewarded with nothing but completely useless rupees.
I'm glad that many people enjoy the sailing in Wind Waker, and I did at first too. The first time I sailed island to island I agree it was peaceful, beautiful, and a nice change of pace.
But the game completely blew it during the sequence of events I described in the OP. Literally two straight hours of nothing but sailing, and every single time I tried to go off the main path I was rewarded with nothing but completely useless rupees.
I quit playing the original Wind Waker on the Gamecube because of the sailing and the constant need to change the fucking wind direction and generally everything having to do with the wind waker wand.
I played through Wind Waker HD last year though and the swift sail + Wii U gamepad made it infinitely more playable for me. And I love the characters, the atmosphere and the godly music in Wind Waker, but the dungeons and boss fights kind of sucked.
I played through Wind Waker HD last year though and the swift sail + Wii U gamepad made it infinitely more playable for me. And I love the characters, the atmosphere and the godly music in Wind Waker, but the dungeons and boss fights kind of sucked.
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