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Naughty Dog Announces Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet

Not quite; Sony pressed them for an internal demo after they missed deadlines. Druckmann walked away from the TV Show to help get the studio back on track because Naughty Dog appears to be having troubles getting it done. Doesn't mean much for the quality of the final game though; everything could turn out just fine.

I wouldn't go that far. It has top tier production values - no question - and it's motion capture work is still pretty great. But, a lot of Naughty Dog's work is about tricks rather than systems. It's not about doing things no one else can do with the hardware, but about how long it takes to pull off that illusion. Naughty Dog fake an enormous number of effects and fidelity to an astounding degree through sheer brute force of money and man power. Those combat animations are the result of a motion matching system that requires a simply staggering amount of pre-canned animations to blend. Very few studios have the budget or man power to populate that kind of system. TLOU2's budget dwarfed every other SIE game, in some instance more than double. Heck, GOY - a PS5 title - had a budget that was about a third of TLOU2's budget. When you have a hyper-linear game, a blank cheque, and a total disregard for the work/life balance of your employees, yeah - you'll produce great looking stuff. But it's not a technical marvel - it's just the result of smoke and mirrors paid for with a blank cheque from Sony.
As best as we can tell, none of Sony's studios have gotten that kind of rope this generation - not even Naughty Dog. And while Insomniac continues to demonstrate why they're Sony's best studio with it's cavalcade of releases, Naughty Dog appears to be struggling to get anything done save for just remastering TLOU1 and TLOU2 again and again.
Motion matching is not a trick it is a system, and even those companies that have a lot of budget don't come close to what Naughty Dog has accomplished. That is a particularity of SIE, that they put the money and effort to create those visuals and integrate those systems into the game, and that also requires talent, because you cannot deliver quality by sheer brute force, the testament of that is all the garbage games, MS has churn out lately.
I wonder what are smoke and mirrors in visual effects? Please elaborate, cause any visual effect requires code and scripting and those are created with knowledge and not tricks. It's like saying DLSS is a trick.
 
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Naughty Dog forced staff into mandatory overtime. Nt to ship a game, but to finish an internal demo. The full release isn't expected until 2027. Clearly, Something has gone very wrong.

Cute Girl Smile GIF

Why are we recycling old news in a clickbait wrapper?
 
Seen this thread and thought of this picture I saw the other day

Funny thing about that picture is that it doesn't show the single biggest selling and most impactful release: The PS4 REMASTER of TLOU!
18.6mil by itself.

I think it's the 'who gives a shit' comments that raise red flags to me

I applaud it. People who get angry about a mis-direct in a trailer are morons.

Similarly, people who are going to hate on your game because they don't like (some of) the creatives politics or associations are not worth trying to appease.

Fuck 'em!

You aren't going to talk them out of their position! Its like the old meme about "See that little bitch eating crackers like she own's the place".

They are just going to double-down no matter what you do.

The reality is that people were still shit-talking about Hello Games and Sean Murray for years in spite of the fact that they released free update after free update expanding and improving on NMS.

The best case scenario is that eventually they get tired/aged out and shut the fuck up about it.
 
I wonder what are smoke and mirrors in visual effects?
Technically, all visual effects are "smoke and mirrors" in a way, because everything is just an approximation so that shit actually renders in real-time. The whole fucking tower of shit that is the rasterization pipeline is just a stack of approximations to get somewhat close to the rendering equation (and that itself is also an approximation since it is formulated on the basis of Maxwell's equations, which are also just a phenomenological model). Ray tracing has limits on what it can render and is also an abstraction. Path tracing fares a bit better, but is a trade-off between performance and "visual noise". And "new" differentiable rendering methods like Gaussian Splatting and its variants still have open problems that make them less suitable for video games (this might change in the future) and are also just abstractions / approximations again (literally, since we fucking minimize against a visual reconstruction loss and call it a day when we're "good enough").

But your point still stands, those approximations are usually pretty clever "systems". Take PBR, for example, and how to render "roughness" of a material. The go-to way is to do it via Microfacets that simulate normals of tiny uneven bits that make a rough surface look rough, without requiring the surface to have actual rough "micro geometry" and therefore saves a lot of triangles. I think that's a pretty clever system. Or Global Illumination with light probes. Or progressive meshes for silhouette preserving (well, at least to some point) LODs, etc.

Maybe he means some "cheap" tricks like billboarding? So instead of a LOD mesh of some object, we render a 2D "picture" of the object on a plane which rotates with the camera to some degree. But even that is basically a system, I would say. Or maybe he means water caustics that are "faked" with just a texture map that parallaxes on the ocean floor? Nintendo used to love this technique, but their artists are so good that it looks good enough. Or baked lighting, maybe? But that lighting has usually been calculated by some algorithm beforehand or made by the artists before baking it into the level textures. But all these "cheap tricks" were a result of pushing rendering performance.
 
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I think it's the 'who gives a shit' comments that raise red flags to me
There seemed to be a shift in [story telling] tone in that studio after the shake-up and it wasn't a gradual one at all. That's not a knock on their technical talents, they're arguably one of if not the best at what they do when it comes to attention to detail and polish, but a shift that definitely doesn't feel... "as organic."

Uncharted 4 is a completely different game tonally than all the ones prior. And all their games prior are different than all the games coming out after.

That's not saying I don't enjoy their games, I do. TLoU2 still has some of the very best TPS gameplay out there, I just have very little desire to replay that one even if its gameplay is fantastic, due to how dreadful the story felt. I guess they accomplished the "we don't want you to feel/have fun."

With that said, people are lying to themselves if they pretend they don't see there was a cultural shift in the studio that impacted how they approached storytelling and elements they wanted to push into the ether [visual agenda].

You can still tell a darker more oppressive mood setting stories without antagonizing the rest of the world with ideological bubble triggers neck deep in a culture war. You get the impression that if this is what they want to express, they're a very miserable people.

Then again, I guess that's many controversial forms of art all throughout history.

For me? I will never forgive that man for this,

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Joel was small potatoes for me compared to the goodest of girls.
 
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Abby was the best thing about the sequel, although I'm beyond sick of hearing about TLOU media at this point. I also dread to think what "advances" they'll be making in the third game, probably involve in the second half taking control of a crossbow wielding full blown tranny or something equally rancid.
It was the unexpected-ness of it. I generally don't have a problem with Abby too, but killing one of the most beloved main characters in a PlayStation Game, then playing as the person who killed the beloved main character.... ND should've probably waited a bit until the honeymoon phase of Joel's death reaction had died down. Then release a DLC focusing on how Abby's story came to be clearer. The backlash to ND probably wouldn't have been as bad, if they followed a similar approach to this. I was mad too, but I wasn't as enraged as the extreme reactions you see online, but I can get why people got that reaction in the end. Joel is a character many people resonated with. I also believe that ND knew the reactions and backlash would be harsh and very very controversial, but they did it anyway. I respect their decision, but me personally wouldn't be such a masochist and wouldn't deal with potential "criticism" thrown at me
 
For me? I will never forgive that man for this,

5TK0Y4lIlCB0WSbU.png


Joel was small potatoes for me compared to the goodest of girls.

Obviously death can be really powerful in telling a story and where ever your feelings fall in regards to pushing an agenda, TLOU2 was insulting for how stupid they made the motivations and decision making of almost every character, not to mention the retconning of the original story and the attempt to parallelize Joel and Ellie's relationship develop with Abby and Lev. The original game showed what Joel and company had to do to survive and the sequel disregards how dangerous the world is and how surviving it hardens you for shock value. With the poor decisions Joel made, he'd never have survived long enough in the apocalypse to meet that golf club and his poor decisions pale in comparison to the decisions the rest of the cast made afterwards.
 
Motion matching is not a trick it is a system...
Motion matching is a system that produces the illusion of organic animated responses to the character's situation, context, and environments. An actual system that produces the real deal would be the Euphoria physics system Rockstar integrated into RAGE, which can blend procedural, inverse, and key-frame animations in real time. It's also seen to great effect in The Force Unleashed, with its use of DMM and Euphoria. Motion matching requires artists to create literally thousands of animation variations for the system to pick from to create the illusion of a fully procedural and personality based animation system. There are few development companies in the world able or willing to spend the millions of dollars and years of man hours required for that kind of system. It looks great, sure, but, at the end of the day, Naughty Dog brute forced it.
... and even those companies that have a lot of budget don't come close to what Naughty Dog has accomplished...
Well, Microsoft doesn't spend close to what Sony spent on TLOUP2, so you've picked a bad example to make your point. (We'll ignore the obvious counter-point of Concord - the largest failure in entertainment history.) Even Hellblade on the XSX - the most realistic real-time visuals on the market - isn't close to what Sony spent here. At USD$220 million dollars, TLOUP2 was one of the most expensive video games ever made. At that level of budget, you're close to the biggest Assassin's Creeds entries, and edging closer to GTAV, RDR2, and Cyberpunk 2077 with their industry-breaking USD$300 million dollar budgets. At that level, developers deliver massive, expansive games built on complex systems that can be explored for weeks if not years. Naughty Dog delivered a largely one-and-done hyper-linear cinematic third person shooter. In terms of PS4/Xbone gen technical accomplishments, it doesn't rank very highly for me on a tech level, because they simply had more money to deliver a very linear game than basically anyone has ever had.
... That is a particularity of SIE, that they put the money and effort to create those visuals... that also requires talent, because you cannot deliver quality by sheer brute force, the testament of that is all the garbage games, MS has churn out lately...
Check yourself, friend - your fan-boy is showing.
... I wonder what are smoke and mirrors in visual effects? Please elaborate, cause any visual effect requires code and scripting and those are created with knowledge and not tricks...
Sure, there are plenty to pick from. Take reflections for example. Naughty Dog actually just use tried-and-true tricks and techniques for their reflections in TLOUP2. But, they look very impressive - so, clearly, Naughty Dog are just that much better than everyone else, right? Not quite. Developers typically have to chose between one or two systems - cube maps for off-screen elements and SSR for on-screen elements is pretty typical. Cube maps are aligned programmatically, with maybe one or two major areas given artist attention to ensure it aligns correctly. The number of cube maps will also be kept to a minimum, as they do take a little time to bake in offline systems and eat up disc space. Naughty Dog, howeer, had the time and budget to employ this same setup with artist-driven hand-offs between systems for every area in the game to maximise the impact. Some areas rely exclusively on artist aligned cube maps, some use cube maps with specific hand-picked SSR elements incorporated, others use SSR heavily. This all hands off from one combination to another, dozens of times in a given level. The reflections look better because Naughty Dog had the time and money to dedicate a team to implementing these types of tricks to fake better reflections, something most developers could only ever dream of.
In fact, manually handing off one trick or system to another trick or system is employed throughout the entire game. It's their key strategy for the game. Few developers can even attempt to do that because it's so cost and time prohibitive. Swapping between cut-scenes and game play, for example, Naughty Dog change out nearly everything - lighting systems, character models, facial rigs, textures, shaders, and graphical prefixes can all be changed. Few developers can afford to duplicate that much work solely to make their cutscenes look that much better. (God of War, for example, uses mostly the same assets and systems for cut-scenes and gameplay, with only the animation rigs being swapped out.) But Naughty Dog also employ staggered changes between cut-scene and gameplay to hide the hand over, with multiple steps in the transition instead of a hard cut-over. It's smart, and it looks great, but man - it's insanely expensive and takes years to do. Every transition for every cut scene, scripted sequence, or forced camera move is done, effectively, by hand, with artists churning out multiple versions of stuff to hide it. Years and years and years of work was put in to make sure it was as invisible as possible.
In my eyes, that's really the big accomplishment with TLOUP2: that they spent years on a game full of these kinds of tricks. It's a huge undertaking that few developers would ever even try because you'd need, well, hundreds of millions of dollars to pay for it all and a guaranteed development time frame to pull it off. With most developers worried about keeping their lights on, Naughty Dog were in a unique position where they had a blank cheque and as much time as they wanted. The results look amazing - but put it up against last-gen heavy hitters like RDR2 or Cyberpunk 2077, and from a technical perspective, it's just not in the same post-code. It's impressive, not for its tech, but for the sheer time and money its artist spent, effectively, hand-crafting it.
 
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Neil Cuckman loves ugly women too much
From what I understand I am 2/3 of the way through TLOU2 and I'm hating it so much, but I want to finish it. They don't even give you a fucking trophy/achievement for beating it on the hardest difficulty, so I went with the second hardest to speed things up a bit.
The graphics and sound are so top notch and even if I wanted to, I can't find too much wrong there. The story has me wanting to kill every mother fucker in sight so I can hit that light at The End of the tunnel.
 
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Neil Druckmann doesn't know how to run a studio and is killing Naughty Dog. If I were the head of the PlayStation division, I would've already audited everything these guys have done over the past few years under Druckmann's leadership. It looks like everyone procrastinated, and now they're being forced into crunch because the water's up to their necks.


I seriously think that if this game flops, this guy won't have a job at Sony anymore.
They were doing some very hard crunching during TLoU2 so I wouldn't think anything is unusual this time around either.
 
From what I understand I am 2/3 of the way through TLOU2 and I'm hating it so much, but I want to finish it. They don't even give you a fucking trophy/achievement for beating it on the hardest difficulty, so I went with the second hardest to speed things up a bit.
The graphics and sound are so top notch and even if I wanted to, I can't find too much wrong there. The story has me wanting to kill every mother fucker in sight so I can hit that light at The End of the tunnel.
it's a brutal, ugly story, told in a brutal, ugly way. by the end of the last of us, i was glad there were still people like ellie & joel around. by the end of the sequel, i didn't really give a fuck who'd lived or died...
 
You talk like you have been a Naughty employee for 20 years. Please record the Grounded 3 documentary and spill the beans on all Naughty Dog related. This kind of assumptions remind me of gossip magazines where "journalists" report on info that came out of their asses.

Are you not following gaming news in general? Do you not watch the documentaries these companies release? Tell me when is the last time someone got fired, didn't make the national news? Its now such a big deal to fire someone for being literally useless and mentally unfit for work but now everyone gets a pass. This goes for most modern industries, except the ones that really matter. Crunch for example, doesn't last 3 years, it lasts last 2-3 months to push to the finish line. Now more and more that is being scrutinized when in fact, it is needed if you need to get to the finish line on time. It doesn't happen every single day yet people act as if it does. That is pucification because if you cant take it, you are free to walk. You aren't held in chains in any workplace. Oh but you won't earn anymore money...well then weigh in your pros and cons. After all EVERYONE is getting paid for that crunch, including overtime. At my workplace, if for whatever reason I need to work on a weekend, night time, I get paid double.

Gaming industry is the worst regarding having to employ useless staff, unfit for the job. If you think companies like Apple, MS, Samsung, etc dont have crunch before releasing a brand new product that has to be as perfect as possible, you obviously have no idea how businesses are run. But you will only hear gaming employees bitch and moan as if they arent getting paid overhead for that specific reason. Naughty Dog has over 1000 employees with SONYs budget and newest tech. You dont need 1000 people working on a remaster of TLOU2. Just liek you dont need 200+ green haired officially pronounced non-binary staff. You just need quality staff no mater their gender.
 
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