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[XiaNaphryz]

http://www.sciencealert.com/the-netherlands-is-making-moves-to-ban-all-non-electric-vehicles-by-2025

There are moves within the country to ban all petrol and diesel vehicle sales by 2025, meaning only new electric cars would thereafter be approved on Dutch roads – although existing fossil-fuel-based vehicles could continue puttering around until their engines give out.

While it's an extreme proposal, a majority of the lower house in the Dutch parliament supported the motion, meaning there's a chance it could be passed into law. Under the plan, all emissions-based cars would be outlawed, at least in terms of new sales. That means fuel-efficient hybrids would also be banned, although hydrogen fuel cell cars would be permitted.

It's an ambitious plan, and it's certainly not the first time the Netherlands has backed the environment with big ideas in terms of transport technology. The country is currently working on a 100 percent wind-powered railway system, and is even building solar technology into its roads.

The most remarkable thing about the proposed vehicle emissions ban is how short the time frame is – less than a decade – to turn the Netherlands' existing auto industry into a wholly electric marketplace. Admittedly, the nation appears to currently enjoy a much greater penetration of electric vehicles than most other countries.

So the Netherlands' impressive proposal won't just mean getting other politicians on board – it will also require getting car makers to produce about 10 times as many electric vehicles as are currently sold to Dutch drivers. A pretty big change, and will a decade be long enough to achieve it?

Nobody knows for sure, and there's certainly dissent among the Dutch themselves. According to Janene Pieters at NL Times, the Minister of Economic Affairs, Henk Kamp from the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD), has called the proposal overambitious and unrealistic, saying at most 15 percent of new cars in 2025 will be completely electric.

EDIT: Update from another post:

This isn't entirely accurate. While the motion did pass our lower house, it was amended to only "encourage the selling of electric vehicles" and not outright ban int. combustion engine cars.

On Tuesday the lower house supported a motion from the Labour PvdA party to do all it can to ensure all new cars are sustainable from 2025, reports NOS.

 

[aeolist]

not surprising, the dutch have more to lose if ocean levels rise than most countries

 

[CrocMother]

The big question is, where does the electricity to power all those cars come from?

If it's from carbon-based energy sources, then this doesn't mean much in environmental terms

 

[Moosichu]

The big question is, where does the electricity to power all those cars come from?

If it's from carbon-emitting energy sources, then this doesn't mean much in environmental terms

Even carbon-emitting energy sources on such a large scale are way more efficient than the combustion engine iirc.

Also, it won't be and more importantly, an electric car that runs of energy from renewable sources is the same as one which doesn't. So the infrastructure can slowly change without affecting the end consumer.

 

[entremet]

As a cyclist, I cannot stand the exhaust cars create. It's terrible.

Bring on electric vehicles.

 

[Joni]

That would be great, for vehicle sales in Belgium.

 

[CrocMother]

Even carbon-emitting energy sources on such a large scale are way more efficient than the combustion engine iirc.

Also, it won't be and more importantly, an electric car that runs of energy from renewable sources is the same as one which doesn't. So the infrastructure can slowly change without affecting the end consumer.

A quick google search indicates that the vast majority of Netherlands electricity is produced from fossil fuels.

Also consider that logically everyone will be recharging their cars at the same time. This means that peak electricity requirement are going to go way up, and that almost always means coal-based power generation.

I can't really research this in depth right now so if I'm wrong please let me know.

Netherlands seems to import a significant amount of its electricity. Another thing to keep in mind.

 

[aeolist]

The big question is, where does the electricity to power all those cars come from?

If it's from carbon-based energy sources, then this doesn't mean much in environmental terms

untrue, centralizing emissions is better for the environment and tends to be more efficient

also once electrics are on the road it's a lot easier to transition away from emissions entirely

 

[DBT85]

The big question is, where does the electricity to power all those cars come from?

If it's from carbon-based energy sources, then this doesn't mean much in environmental terms

Of course it does.

The infrastructure for the electricity is already in every home, every person has a fuel station in their house. You don't need to truck heavy fuels all over the country and a power plant is more energy efficient than an IC engine.

On top of that, the nation can then decide to go with more solar or whatever and drop the footprint further.

Its ll dependant on everyone that wants to charge the car being able to, either by parking on their own drive or there being charge points all over the country, in every supermarket car park, every work car park, etc.

 

[Baconsaurus Rex]

The big question is, where does the electricity to power all those cars come from?

If it's from carbon-based energy sources, then this doesn't mean much in environmental terms

5-6% renewable energy in 2014. By 2020 it should be 14% and in 2050 100%. We're one of the worst countries in Europe regarding renewable energy.

 

[ElTorro]

It's always exciting to see what an industry can come up with when it has no other choice.

 

[fanboi]

It's always exciting to see what an industry can come up with when it has no other choice.

Unless they feel powerless

 

[Stike]

Well, of course. The Netherlands are home to the European Tesla production plant...

 

[Mr-Joker]

As a cyclist, I cannot stand the exhaust cars create. It's terrible.

Bring on electric vehicles.

Aren't electric vehicles more quieter than their petrol counterpart?

 

[jb1234]

Getting all that exhaust off the roads can only be a good thing for air quality. I admire what they're doing, even if it has its risks.

 

[CrocMother]

Of course it does.

The infrastructure for the electricity is already in every home, every person has a fuel station in their house. You don't need to truck heavy fuels all over the country and a power plant is more energy efficient than an IC engine.

On top of that, the nation can then decide to go with more solar or whatever and drop the footprint further.

Its ll dependant on everyone that wants to charge the car being able to, either by parking on their own drive or there being charge points all over the country, in every supermarket car park, every work car park, etc.

Without knowing how the conversion to 100% electric would effect the grid in the Netherlands, it's impossible to really know what the trade-offs are.

I'm not saying that converting to all-electric is a bad thing, I just wanted to state that there are potential negative trade-offs.

 

[SJRB]

This is never happening for the most obvious of reasons: Dutch government has a brutal stranglehold on gas revenue with an insane 60% tax providing a yearly income of approximately 8 BILLION euros.

 

[Rentahamster]

The big question is, where does the electricity to power all those cars come from?

If it's from carbon-based energy sources, then this doesn't mean much in environmental terms

Well, a few points.

1. It's not all from carbon-based energy sources.

2. The portion that is carbon-based can get a better efficiency energy conversion than the engine in a car can.

3. It takes a lot of pollution out of city centers and areas where there tend to be lots of people. Air quality when walking down the street would be much nicer if all those cars didn't emit any exhaust.

 

[MisterMrMister]

While it's an extreme proposal, a majority of the lower house in the Dutch parliament supported the motion, meaning there's a chance it could be passed into law.

This isn't entirely accurate. While the motion did pass our lower house, it was amended to only "encourage the selling of electric vehicles" and not outright ban int. combustion engine cars.

 

[curls]

Oh my! Thank the maker.

Outright ban would be great.

As a cyclist, I cannot stand the exhaust cars create. It's terrible.

As someone who likes to walk

Electric drives would be easy to convert once the radical energy generating technologies hit the market.

 

[Ty4on]

Even if it's 100% fossil based electricity generation EVs usually charge at night during off peak hours and can even help the grid. Not to mention it's more efficient to burn oil in a big powerplant and use that electricity in an EV than it is to burn that same oil in a fossil fuel car.

 

[Ty4on]

Aren't electric vehicles more quieter than their petrol counterpart?

Noise can be faked for pedestrians.

 

[DrM]

People would need additional month of vacation before they could even reach their summer destinations in southern Europe with their electric cars. Just imagine the gridlocks on charger stations

 

[CrocMother]

Well, a few points.

1. It's not all from carbon-based energy sources.

2. The portion that is carbon-based can get a better efficiency energy conversion than the engine in a car can.

3. It takes a lot of pollution out of city centers and areas where there tend to be lots of people. Air quality when walking down the street would be much nicer if all those cars didn't emit any exhaust.

These points are all true. However, it would be interesting to see how this effects the peak electricity load on a daily basis. If everyone all of the sudden is charging their cars when they get off work everyday, that additional strain on the grid could force additional coal-based power plants to come online to meet the demand.

Even if it's 100% fossil based electricity generation EVs usually charge at night during off peak hours and can even help the grid. Not to mention it's more efficient to burn oil in a big powerplant and use that electricity in an EV than it is to burn that same oil in a fossil fuel car.

If everyone charges at off-peak hours, then that would resolve the problem. Additional legislation limiting the window of charging your vehicle (difficult to enforce but still), or increasing the cost of electricity during peak-load times might be a smart idea.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

This isn't entirely accurate. While the motion did pass our lower house, it was amended to only "encourage the selling of electric vehicles" and not outright ban int. combustion engine cars.

On Tuesday the lower house supported a motion from the Labour PvdA party to do all it can to ensure all new cars are sustainable from 2025, reports NOS.

Thanks, I'll update the OP.

 

[friday]

People would need additional month of vacation before they could even reach their summer destinations in southern Europe with their electric cars. Just imagine the gridlocks on charger stations

Battery development is moving at a pretty good pace. Who knows how many miles an electric vehicle will be able to travel by 2025.

As long as I can keep my traditional car around as a recreational vehicle, I am fine with mainstream vehicles all being electric. It also helps that electric cars are mega fast.

 

[Boem]

I'm from the Netherlands and I've seen this reported on other American sites or discussed on Reddit and the like, and I feel like this article is a bit overblown. I can tell you with 99% certainty that this isn't going to happen. We like to see ourselves as a very progressive country (and I guess in some ways we are, like our drug/same sex marriage/prostitution policies etc), but in a lot of ways we really aren't. Definitely less and less in the last 10+ years.

In regards to this specific article: yes, this plan has been presented, but it's never going to go through to the point of it actually happening. If you look at what happened with electric cars here, it started out with a lot of great tax benefits, most of which got cut a while back. Right now you're far better off (financially) to stay with a non-electric car, as with the current regulations electric cars are super expensive to maintain again. The exact opposite of what they promised some years ago. Actually actively banning all non-electric cars in such a short time period is just impossible with the way the country is working right now.

I would actually be all for it, as it is a first step towards something that will happen anyway in the end, but it would be such an expensive undertaking for the country that they'd never have the guts to go through with it. Going by the recent political developments in this field it's pretty obvious it won't happen sadly, and nobody here in the country (press and the like) are taking the possibility of this happening by 2025 very seriously.

I expect one of the Scandinavian countries taking the first step in this, and the Netherlands to follow after they've figured out how to do it without upsetting the economy too much.

 

[johancruijff]

Spoiler

one day

 

[Rentahamster]

These points are all true. However, it would be interesting to see how this effects the peak electricity load on a daily basis. If everyone all of the sudden is charging their cars when they get off work everyday, that additional strain on the grid could force additional coal-based power plants to come online to meet the demand.




If everyone charges at off-peak hours, then that would resolve the problem. Additional legislation limiting the window of charging your vehicle (difficult to enforce but still), or increasing the cost of electricity during peak-load times might be a smart idea.

Most people are incentivized to charge during off-peak hours since electricity is cheaper then. Unless prices don't work that way over there.

 

[Dennis]

Good move.

I hope other countries follow. It is the future.

 

[Dennis]

This is never happening for the most obvious of reasons: Dutch government has a brutal stranglehold on gas revenue with an insane 60% tax providing a yearly income of approximately 8 BILLION euros.

Tax electrons. Problem solved.

 

[Maintenance]

Spoiler

one day

Until it can fit the luggage that I put inside my car it isn't going to replace it.

 

[Famassu]

People would need additional month of vacation before they could even reach their summer destinations in southern Europe with their electric cars. Just imagine the gridlocks on charger stations

Trains still exist...

 

[AtomicShroom]

Noise can be faked for pedestrians.

I hope that when we get around to faking noise, we can select which noise the car emits. And I want mine to emit the Jetsons' car noise.

 

[Hoo-doo]

As a dutch citizen, this would be fucking awesome if it were to happen. Fuck combustion engines.

Shame it'll likely still take a decade or more before EV's really gain traction among the masses.

 

[True Savior]

VR Porn and Electric Cars, the two most important revolutions in the next decade. Let's do this.

 

[Joni]

Trains still exist...

The train system is usually organized by country, so it is not really an efficient way to cross four countries in Europe.

 

[johancruijff]

VR Porn and Electric Cars, the two most important revolutions in the next decade. Let's do this.

Vr Porn into self driving electric cars

Until it can fit the luggage that I put inside my car it isn't going to replace it.

light is the luggage of the wise man

 

[Aiii]

Good move.

I hope other countries follow. It is the future.

I am sure all the extra coal and gas we will shoot into the air are gonna be great for the environment.

This will never happen, OP, not unless fully electric cars suddenly become less shit, one of our main industries (transport) suddenly dies out, they manage to find billions of dollars per year to compensate for the loss of income (70% of our gas prices are government taxes, the highest of almost anywhere in the world), and car builders decide that catering to a country of 17 million is worth it without government subsidies (which our government can't afford).

Load of bs posturing from our government, basically, since they are under some scrutiny for not meeting environmental goals in the short term. Smoke screen politics is all that is going on here, makes for nice headlines.

 

[Famassu]

The train system is usually organized by country, so it is not really an efficient way to cross four countries in Europe.

Uhh... travelling through Europe by train is very efficient & easy. There's the whole Interrail system that let's you travel everywhere for a set amount of time very cheaply. Of course it's not as fast as flying, but it's really quite effortless, especially inside EU.

 

[True Savior]

Vr Porn into self driving electric cars

You have reinvented the entire market labor. People will want to work just for the sake of commute.

 

[Joni]

Uhh... travelling through Europe by train is very efficient & easy. There's the whole Interrail system that let's you travel everywhere for a set amount of time very cheaply. Of course it's not as fast as flying, but it's really quite effortless, especially inside EU.

Not if you're dragging with you three suitcases and travelling to the average Dutch camping sites. There are still quite a significant number of people driving because they are dragging along a caravan and quite a lot of stuff to remote nature destination. Even from the Netherlands to average places in the Belgian Ardennes.

 

[Condom]

People have a far too optimistic view on how progressive we are with government policies, we have had conservative governments since the start of this century.

Our current government's mantra is cuts cuts and more cuts. We could have been one of the leading countries when it comes to renewable energy but instead we're one of the worst in Europe.