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[MYE]

Isn't Dark Souls a JRPG? What does that have to do with Zelda?

Its not a jrpg. Its a very atmospheric dungeon crawler that offers you deep combat mechanics against merciless enemies that can 1 hit kill you if you dont master your defense/evasion/attack skills and their patterns.
And by "dungeon" I mean rather straight forward designed levels or regions where most roadblocks are simply enemies you're not skilled or leveled enough to kill and progress through.

Does that sound like Zelda? Yeah...

Its in my top 5 favourite games this gen (though Demon's Souls is a bit better IMO), but it is NOT a Zelda-like experience. It might make some people feel as satisfied as they did when they played LTTP or whatever, but it doesnt mean they are anything alike.
I do highly recommend it though. But I do it for what it is, and Zelda it is not.

 

[NeonZ]

For newer Zeldas, it should probably read: "Go inside the cave, you'll find a bunch of useless rupees and put them back in the chest since your wallet is full."

You say newer Zeldas, but your scenario is pretty much describing only Twilight Princess...

Pretty much the bolded, yeah. Zelda has a FAR larger audience in North America, Skyward Sword was pretty much a bomb in Japan. Why even bother dedicating valuable Japanese resources to a game that isn't going to sell well in Japan?

It's a bomb compared to past Zelda titles, but it still added a significant amount of sales. They might still want to recover the series' prestige there. Besides, Retro hasn't really proven itself well when handling npcs and such when we look at Prime 3. Zelda isn't just a collection of corridors unlike Metroid. And personally, in some ways I can't stand Prime. Retro's concept of difficulty seems to be bullet sponge enemies that make the weapons feel powerless and combat boring, especially while running through the same location multiple times.

Those things would be picked apart if they ended up in a Zelda game, and I'm not sure it'd do nearly as well as you think. There is a clear risk involved with a random total change of direction, it's not a simple thing like you make it out to be.

 

[King of the Potato People]

Actually, he can in this case. Its his creation, he has the right to do with it as he pleases.

I disagree with him that less dependent franchises should be left to Retro Studios, DKCR was a sales success and the Metroid Prime games sold quite well too, being killer apps for the Gamecube. Retro's Zelda would sell very well and maybe even be better than SS, assuming it's good.

 

[ASIS]

Its not a jrpg. Its a very atmospheric dungeon crawler that offers you deep combat mechanics against merciless enemies that can 1 hit kill you if you dont master your defense/evasion/attack skills and their patterns.
And by "dungeon" I mean rather straight forward designed levels or regions where most roadblocks are simply enemies you're not skilled or leveled enough to kill and progress through.

Does that sound like Zelda? Yeah...

Its in my top 5 favourite games this gen (though Demon's Souls is a bit better IMO), but it is NOT a Zelda-like experience. It might make some people feel as satisfied as they did when they played LTTP or whatever, but it doesnt mean they are anything alike.
I do highly recommend it though. But I do it for what it is, and Zelda it is not.

Not really, but Zelda could benefit from deeper combat now that i think about it. Especially with WM+

I disagree with him that less dependent franchises should be left to Retro Studios, DKCR was a sales success and the Metroid Prime games sold quite well too, being killer apps for the Gamecube. Retro's Zelda would sell very well and maybe even be better than SS, assuming it's good.

It has nothing to do with sales though. Its purely about him just not wanting the core of Zelda diminished. People can be pissed all they want but I'd rather they don't do anything unless they do it with conviction.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

I disagree with him that less dependent franchises should be left to Retro Studios, DKCR was a sales success and the Metroid Prime games sold quite well too, being killer apps for the Gamecube. Retro's Zelda would sell very well and maybe even be better than SS, assuming it's good.

I don't really think that you can claim that the Metroid Prime games sold well (I'm pretty sure Wii Music has outsold them all).

If they wanted to hand Zelda to someone who has made a sales success for Nintendo(& you assume the Galaxy teams are busy) then it should be Sakurai.

 

[CorvoSol]

I'd actually be the first to say think ALTTP is the best game in the Zelda series, in relation to both 2D and 3D Zelda.

And it's very true; part of what makes ALTTP the best, is that it has the most stuff in it. The most dungeons, most nooks and crannies.

A reason why I do like Skyward Sword is because I really, really dug the idea of every square inch of the overworld (well, underworld) being a dense maze of mechanics and stuff to do every step of the way. I do feel they found a strategy for replicating the feel of ALTTP's dense overworld. For the first time in 3D Zelda.

Now, all that's needed is scale. I didn't mind the notion of 3 underworld hubs to visit as distinct areas, for one game. That will make Skyward Sword unique from here on out. But for the next game, I'd like to see something even closer to ALTTP in 3D. A large connected overworld, but sufficiently dense in design to replicate the impression of 2D Zelda's screen transition to a new area full of things to do.

Which, btw, I think is why 3D Zelda has a lot of trouble resonating with the full sensation of playing 2D Zelda. Never underestimate the power of presentation. 2D Zelda's trademark grid-based overworld is a key why it feels as it does. Every screen transition brings a note of anticipation, wondering what the next block will have in it. Also dread, if you're low on health and resources. 3D can display far off vistas but it's difficult to replicate the density of the top-down games.

I don't think ALttP is THE BEST Zelda

Spoiler

It's Wind Waker

, but otherwise I agree with pretty much everything you said. I really loved the lowerworld segments of Skyward Sword. If they'd interconnected that, the game would've been so much better for me. The real problem I had with the game was that Skyworld was empty as hell. Like, more empty than the Great Sea, even. Maybe just because you could see everything from any given point, but the islands felt absolutely miniscule compared to Wind Waker's. Granted I can also criticize Wind Waker because in spite of having lots of islands, a lot of them were kinda pointless, like the floating fortresses.

I guess, what I'm saying, is that ALttP, LA, the Oracle games and even OoT/MM felt like there was something everywhere, and TWW, TP, and SS felt like there wasn't enough. In other words, I just want more. Give me a goddamn Biggoron Sword quest, and Magic Armor, and an Ice Rod and a Magic Cape, and so on. Don't make all the cool gear dungeon exclusive!

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I'm excited to see Zelda transition to next gen hardware. The last two Zelda consoles were running on 10 year old hardware. Gonna be interested with the increase in power to see new ways of Zelda being improved.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Does that sound like Zelda? Yeah...

I wonder if the Dark Souls to Zelda comparisons are inspired by those who largely view Zelda as an adventure in a large unknown world which you must explore a lot of nooks and crannies. Combined with the somewhat open nature of, at least, ALTTP.

Dark Souls does have a couple of points of comparisons there - you have some freedom to tackle the major areas in different orders depending on skill. Its boss areas could be considered "dungeons" all connected together from hub areas in a seamless world.

The problem may be that something like DS evokes some of the atmosphere that many imagine a "grown up" Zelda would or should have. However it is correct to point out Dark Souls lacks a huge amount of other things that every Zelda after the first two games are based on.

In that sense, it is the Zelda series creators themselves who refined the series early in its timeline. It went from basic exploration in which boss characters were tucked away in a number of simple dungeon locations, to a complex ecosystem of stacked gadgets and adventuring tools which were required in order to progress past various points in the game, or to defeat certain bosses. Dungeons became what Zelda is known for by many or most, and specifically puzzle dungeons with a wide variety of mechanics.

 

[onilink88]

- They'll encourage handwritten chatting with Miiverse

Sorry if dumb question - haven't been paying close attention - but there'll be a standard keyboard for messaging, right? Swapnote's fun and all, but my handwriting's unreadable garbage...

 

[Kai Dracon]

I don't think ALttP is THE BEST Zelda

Spoiler

It's Wind Waker

, but otherwise I agree with pretty much everything you said.

For what it's worth, I always felt that The Wind Waker would have been the perfect Zelda game had it been finished.

Take out the triforce fetch quest.

Give it 2 more regular dungeons.

Remove the (genuine!) filler at the end in the form of the four repeat boss fights.

Turn Death Mountain under sunken Hyrule into a full, real, epic final dungeon. Leave the final boss fight just as it was.

And I think it would have been game of the forever.

 

[SMT]

I don't understand why people keep pushing for Retro to take Zelda.

The Zelda games are fine. Retro could easily reboot something like the Starfox series or continue the Metroid Prime series.

Have you played a Zelda game since Twilight Princess? I would say the last entry, which was supposedly the second coming of Christ (judging from how Nintendo pushed it), was none other but a piece of shit wrapped in a fajita pita.

As a Zelda fan, I feel you are in need of a short stay at the Zeruda Quality Insurance Reeducation Camp which is an independant institution, not subsidized in any way or form by Nintendo.

Rest assured, after hours of repeated play pertaining to the 8 glorius classics, you will come around. If not, you will be magically transported to the moon, where you will spend the rest of your days crafting souvenirs for the nearest space colony.

Spoiler

J/k, you will be sent to the sun.

 

[Neff]

For what it's worth, I always felt that The Wind Waker would have been the perfect Zelda game had it been finished.

Take out the triforce fetch quest.

Give it 2 more regular dungeons.

Remove the (genuine!) filler at the end in the form of the four repeat boss fights.

Turn Death Mountain under sunken Hyrule into a full, real, epic final dungeon. Leave the final boss fight just as it was.

And I think it would have been game of the forever.

I like you.

Can we have those two extra dungeons somewhere in submerged Hyrule as well? Thanks.

 

[mattchuuu]

I don't really think that you can claim that the Metroid Prime games sold well (I'm pretty sure Wii Music has outsold them all).

What do you consider successful sales? Metroid Prime sold 2.8 million worldwide, 7th in gamecube software sales. The other two sold 1.6 and 1.3. The trilogy, limited by Nintendo, is another 0.7 million.

 

[King of the Potato People]

It has nothing to do with sales though. Its purely about him just not wanting the core of Zelda diminished. People can be pissed all they want but I'd rather they don't do anything unless they do it with conviction.

It’s always got something to do with sales, also it depends what you mean by core because the Zelda series has changed so much since it began (despite the urban legend that it's the "same old") I can't see how Retro Studios would ruin the 'core'.

I don't really think that you can claim that the Metroid Prime games sold well (I'm pretty sure Wii Music has outsold them all).

If they wanted to hand Zelda to someone who has made a sales success for Nintendo(& you assume the Galaxy teams are busy) then it should be Sakurai.

They sold well, not mega-hits like Halo or Call of Duty (obviously!) but proved profitable selling a few million. Personally I’ve known a lot of people who bought a Gamecube because of Metroid Prime. Retro Studios proved what they could do with a cult series and I expect only better from a more-well known franchise such as Zelda. As for Sakurai working on Zelda, I wouldn't mind that!

 

[MYE]

The pre-dungeon world beneath the clouds in SS is a huge step in the right direction.

It felt like a 2D Zelda overworld brought into 3D in the way it ditched realism and organic looking areas for more twisted, puzzle-like environments that embrace the videogamey look and design of 2D Zeldas. I want to see that pushed further and with more variety. I loved it and it felt right at home in this franchise.

The much praised, emotion-evoking vistas of art-games like Shadow of the Colossus or Journey have no place in Zelda games. Zelda is an adventure series mainly because of what you do, not by how the surroundings and music are carefully crafted to make you feel.

 

[Neff]

Also, there really was nothing wrong with Skyward Sword at all, save for an unwise and more persistent than usual insistence on fetchquesting. Everything else it did, it did extremely well.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

For what it's worth, I always felt that The Wind Waker would have been the perfect Zelda game had it been finished.

Take out the triforce fetch quest.

Give it 2 more regular dungeons.

Remove the (genuine!) filler at the end in the form of the four repeat boss fights.

Turn Death Mountain under sunken Hyrule into a full, real, epic final dungeon. Leave the final boss fight just as it was.

And I think it would have been game of the forever.

Man, I was right behind your posts in this thread until you unleashed the crazy in that last post(I hated the little I played of WW, the sailing was terrible & it remains the only Zelda game I have played that made me stop playing it).

They sold well, not mega-hits like Halo of Call of Duty (obviously!) but proved profitable selling a few million. Personally I’ve known a lot of people who bought a Gamecube because of Metroid Prime. Retro Studios proved what they could do with a cult series and I expect only better from a more-well known franchise such as Zelda. As for Sakurai working on Zelda, I wouldn't mind that!

A few million across all three games, I'm sure I remember reading that MP2 did rather badly in terms of sales(less than a million comes to mind), DKCR is easily their biggest game.

 

[Anth0ny]

For what it's worth, I always felt that The Wind Waker would have been the perfect Zelda game had it been finished.

Take out the triforce fetch quest.

Give it 2 more regular dungeons.

Remove the (genuine!) filler at the end in the form of the four repeat boss fights.

Turn Death Mountain under sunken Hyrule into a full, real, epic final dungeon. Leave the final boss fight just as it was.

And I think it would have been game of the forever.

+Dolphin level visuals

Wind Waker: HD Complete Edition is legitimately my dream game.

 

[Platy]

I don't understand why people keep pushing for Retro to take Zelda.

The Zelda games are fine. Retro could easily reboot something like the Starfox series or continue the Metroid Prime series.

In my case it has NOTHING to do with zelda games being wrong or problematic ... I LOVE the direction the zelda games are taking (MAYBE the DS zeldas could be better ... but I love Minish Cap and the Season/Oracle games so it is ... complicated =P)... but there is one rumor once that was ... just .. PERFECT.

The "problem" is that all the sources of this rumor is ... wel ..

Initially, Nintendo wanted them to do a Sheik title. Continuing on their own experiments would've been not really true, Nintendo was pretty harsh during that time when it came to new IPs for the hardcore crowd; they did not want those from Retro Studios (neither from NST).

The RS leads wanted to work on their own projects, Nintendo did not want that. That's why they left.

This post =P

And the mere fact that it might have existed at some point a Zelda spinoff based on Sheik of all characters makes me fangasm

-----------------------------------------
edit :


...Spinner ?
In WIND WAKER ?
And people complain why you don't use itens in the overworld in zelda games anymore =P

 

[ASIS]

+Dolphin level visuals

Wind Waker: HD Complete Edition is legitimately my dream game.

The other two items in those dungeons are:

1. The Spinner

2. Double hookshot.

that would be perfection in the form of a game.

 

[MYE]

No Zelda spin-offs please. The Shiek game sounds like a fan project :/

If I had to give Retro Studios an existing IP to work with, it would be to revive and completely reinvent a Startropics adventure game.
They could make it as Zelda, actiony, gamey or cinematic as they wanted to, and they wouldnt piss anyone off.

 

[CorvoSol]

For what it's worth, I always felt that The Wind Waker would have been the perfect Zelda game had it been finished.

Take out the triforce fetch quest.

Give it 2 more regular dungeons.

Remove the (genuine!) filler at the end in the form of the four repeat boss fights.

Turn Death Mountain under sunken Hyrule into a full, real, epic final dungeon. Leave the final boss fight just as it was.

And I think it would have been game of the forever.

I agree with you absolutely and completely. Like, whatever about the repeat boss fights, I could go either way on that, but the rest is YES. Make the Triforce 1 dungeon, and I dunno, the key to get it or something the other. Works perfectly.

And don't touch the ending, because the ending to Wind Waker is perfect.

 

[Anth0ny]

The other two items in those dungeons are:

1. The Spinner

2. Double hookshot.

that would be perfection in the form of a game.

And you can do a special sidequest that culminates in you obtaining a motor for the King of Red Lions, replacing your sail and eliminating the need to control the wind. Also, he moves 10x faster.

=)

I actually liked the triforce quest at the end of the game. What I didn't like was being forced to collect 3000+ rupees in order to do so. Tingle should have just gave you the charts for free, and boom, you're off to explore the giant, beautiful overworld.

 

[MYE]

I'd rather see Skyward Sword's artstyle in HD

So, so beautiful!!!

 

[Anth0ny]

I'd rather see Skyward Sword's artstyle in HD



So, so beautiful!!!

Don't make me post Wind Waker in HD

...

Okay I'll post Wind Waker in HD

mmmmmm

 

[Kai Dracon]

I'd rather see Skyward Sword's artstyle in HD



So, so beautiful!!!

Always felt pointalism-as-depth-of-field was a stroke of art direction genius. Seems to make the game look very much like a speed painting in motion in terms of the environment, where the further away from the focus of the scene you look, the more brushy everything gets.

Some argued it was to hide hardware limitations. It does work for that, but even if that was a reason they used it, it stands on its own.

 

[MYE]

Don't make me post Wind Waker in HD

...

Okay I'll post Wind Waker in HD



mmmmmm

Looks even better in motion

Always felt pointalism-as-depth-of-field was a stroke of art direction genius. Seems to make the game look very much like a speed painting in motion in terms of the environment, where the further away from the focus of the scene you look, the more brushy everything gets.

Some argued it was to hide hardware limitations. It does work for that, but even if that was a reason they used it, it stands on its own.

Yeah, I love how the filter fades the distant vistas into paint strokes.
Please oh please let them make another one in this style!!

 

[Currygan]

I'd rather see Skyward Sword's artstyle in HD



So, so beautiful!!!

Don't make me post Wind Waker in HD

...

Okay I'll post Wind Waker in HD



mmmmmm

daaaaaaaaaaaamn


so, so glad we finally have HD on a Nintendo console

 

[TheCongressman1]

I'd rather see Skyward Sword's artstyle in HD

So, so beautiful!!!

Okay I'll post Wind Waker in HD

mmmmmm

Both look amazing.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Honestly what Nintendo needs to do with Zelda is cut the budget and development time, go back to basics, and hand off to less franchise-established designers. That would be the first best step, not fogging up the gameplay, mechanics and story into a ever-expanding mix of good ideas and lame ideas. Zelda has gotten too "big" for it's own good.

 

[Pociask]

Always felt pointalism-as-depth-of-field was a stroke of art direction genius. Seems to make the game look very much like a speed painting in motion in terms of the environment, where the further away from the focus of the scene you look, the more brushy everything gets.

Some argued it was to hide hardware limitations. It does work for that, but even if that was a reason they used it, it stands on its own.

On that note, a Disney short film used a similar interesting effect: the John Henry story on Disney's direct-to-video American Legends dvd. Would love to see a game pick that up.

 

[Supermanisdead]

Lol, Dark Souls finally rears it's head in another Zelda thread. Seriously, the two are nothing alike. It's baffling!

 

[Stewox]

Zelda+western studio can go very very wrong.

I have to agree

 

[Dr.Hadji]

For what it's worth, I always felt that The Wind Waker would have been the perfect Zelda game had it been finished.

Take out the triforce fetch quest.

Give it 2 more regular dungeons.

Remove the (genuine!) filler at the end in the form of the four repeat boss fights.

Turn Death Mountain under sunken Hyrule into a full, real, epic final dungeon. Leave the final boss fight just as it was.

And I think it would have been game of the forever.

Eh, adding two more dungeons to WW wouldn't help too much if they were was poor (relative to the rest of the series) as the rest of the dungeons in that game. I'd rather them put more meat on the fetch quests because that was the part of the game that really played up some non-linearity. Finding that ghost ship was epic, its resolution was not. Oh and real time wind changing. Something like conducting the winds with your Wiimote. Mmmmm tasty.

 

[Violet_0]

It felt like a 2D Zelda overworld brought into 3D in the way it ditched realism and organic looking areas for more twisted, puzzle-like environments that embrace the videogamey look and design of 2D Zeldas. I want to see that pushed further and with more variety. I loved it and it felt right at home in this franchise.

I want them to replicate and improve upon the world design of OoT and MM, but without the emptiness/lack of content of TTP, which was all about the dungeons really. Alternatively, I'd really love to see another WW-style Zelda with improved sailing/overworld travel mechanics, where every island is unique and interesting to explore. I've played and enjoyed all the 2D Zeldas since ALttP, but the design doesn't translate well to the console game (imo). Clearly, everyone wants something different from the next Zelda game

 

[Oblivion]

Those HD SS shots look great, and most of that is due to the fact that it actually has AA. Unlike in SD, SS is the jaggiest AAA game I've ever seen.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Eh, adding two more dungeons to WW wouldn't help too much if they were was poor (relative to the rest of the series) as the rest of the dungeons in that game. I'd rather them put more meat on the fetch quests because that was the part of the game that really played up some non-linearity. Finding that ghost ship was epic, its resolution was not. Oh and real time wind changing. Something like conducting the winds with your Wiimote. Mmmmm tasty.

This.
Wind Waker had worse problems than ,,too few dungeons''. The dungeons it had would have to be seriously improved and there needs to be significantly stronger content on the sea.

 

[daakusedo]

Zelda will be fine staying in Japan.
You don't take a game from its developers when the last one was doing new things and still have to be expanded, plus they can work with Monolith so no need to bother retro, then they can continue working on their new games!

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I think SS would benefit from an HD re-release whereas Wind Waker would benefit from a 3DS remake. SS had a lot of small details a regular Wii's output just can't do justice, whereas I think the 3DS would be more than able to make up for its lower polygon count with its shaders for a cel-shaded game like WW.

Eh, adding two more dungeons to WW wouldn't help too much if they were was poor (relative to the rest of the series) as the rest of the dungeons in that game. I'd rather them put more meat on the fetch quests because that was the part of the game that really played up some non-linearity. Finding that ghost ship was epic, its resolution was not. Oh and real time wind changing. Something like conducting the winds with your Wiimote. Mmmmm tasty.

They were cut due to time though, not due to quality (not that we have any clue what they were even supposed to be beyond existing in place of the triforce fetch quest). The GCN didn't create that big of a splash and I guess for once Nintendo wasn't willing to delay a mainline Zelda game for content-reasons.

 

[CaVaYeRo]

Some updated stuff added to the OP.

I found it pretty cool a friend journalist had a question based on Pac-Man Vs and when are we going to see a game design by Miyamoto. But Miyamoto himself started talking about that nine years old game earlier in the chat, which precisely is an "asymmetric gameplay" concept (Gamecube-GBA).

I think, for me, this is the more personal and interesting quote company-wise:

"Right now I have two goals: to create what I want and create groups that can create without me. If something happened to me, I wouldn't like that everything stopped".

 

[Pat]

I want that Mario shirt. Badly.

 

[ASIS]

Eh, adding two more dungeons to WW wouldn't help too much if they were was poor (relative to the rest of the series) as the rest of the dungeons in that game. I'd rather them put more meat on the fetch quests because that was the part of the game that really played up some non-linearity. Finding that ghost ship was epic, its resolution was not. Oh and real time wind changing. Something like conducting the winds with your Wiimote. Mmmmm tasty.

I can't believe that I'm still bitter about my fictional next gen Wiimote with the next gen nunchuck not coming to realization. They were so close at perfecting that control scheme... so close

 

[GamerSoul]

Some updated stuff added to the OP.

I think, for me, this is the more personal and interesting quote company-wise:

Yea, that sounds like exactly what Miyamoto wants to do with the rest of his time at Nintendo. plain and simple. Best of luck to him, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

And to chime in on the Retro Zelda wishing. If Retro's every move wasn't clouded in mystery because of Nintendo, we wouldn't have to speculate to this degree. Yea, it's how they operate but they rarely get much exposure to begin with, so when you have a talented team with no info being released for months and months we get ideas like this.

Imo, I would love to see a new IP form them, but the idea of Retro working on a Zelda is something I can get behind. What Nintendo should do, since they're very protectve of the Zelda series, is give Retro certain guidelines to follow if they were to hand them Zelda. Make it a spinoff game or a side story game that doesn't follow the Zelda timeline like the others. Make it with some brand new characters and maybe a new villain. It could be a fresh take on the series without taking anything away from the actually main series.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

I think the problem with recent Zelda games is that they each add or tweak a few things to the established formula, but over the course of a 20-30 hour game, the stuff that stays the same is always going to be more apparent. That's not to say they couldn't do an awful lot better with the stuff that they add, as far too much of the additions add nothing but tedium (seriously - stop having a different barely-interactive gimmick for traversing the overworld in every game!).

I don't know why people are so resistant to the idea of a spin-off. Obviously they need to have a standard Zelda game for the Wii U, and I think the upgrade in graphics alone will be enough to make it interesting to people, but why not do something a bit more experimental with the 3DS version? Really slay some sacred cows and see what different directions they can go in.

 

[CaVaYeRo]

Updated with full interview in original Spanish.

It's a looooong, but interesting and charming read. Also added own and Nintendo new photos:

Will share more cool comments and my English colleagues will probably post the whole thing in English. Will update you.