Again, there's no reason whatsoever the Melee community would reject it unless Nintendo went out of their way to fuck up the game. At the bare minimum all they would have to do is add 1080p/16:9 and use the PAL balance changes at it would still be a massive upgrade from the status quo while anyone with a decent knowledge of the scene could easily identify a dozen easy fixes and quality of life improvements that literally no one would complain about. These are all things that the community has fixed over the years via mods but can't be included in tournament play due to a lack of standardization. No one likes playing on CRTs and the community has also embraced emulated Netplay despite it obviously being a suboptimal way of playing.
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Nintendo Responds To Smash Bros. Pro's Callout, Wants To Keep Scene Grassroots
- Thread starter Makonero
- Start date
Again, there's no reason whatsoever the Melee community would reject it unless Nintendo went out of their way to fuck up the game. At the bare minimum all they would have to do is add 1080p/16:9 and use the PAL balance changes at it would still be a massive upgrade from the status quo while anyone with a decent knowledge of the scene could easily identify a dozen easy fixes and quality of life improvements that literally no one would complain about. These are all things that the community has fixed over the years via mods but can't be included in tournament play due to a lack of standardization. No one likes playing on CRTs and the community has also embraced emulated Netplay despite it obviously being a suboptimal way of playing.
Vital Tundra
Member
I don't expect them to put real dollars into Melee. But I feel the competitive community in 4 is so large they are just really missing a great opportunity not to really put some money down.
Heard about that NES Classic Mini and all of its obsolete games people (would) love to buy?
People don't actually want what they want, trust me!
Renegade Frost
Banned
No company with a franchise that moves over 15 million units per entry prioritizes less than a 100k customers lmao.
Melee is too hard.
Man people love fake news.
MrMephistoX
Member
Do you still see Capcom pushing Street Fighter 3 at Tournaments? It's two versions behind and yes the fanbase is vocal but in the grand scheme of things it's not profitable enough for them to get behind a game that came out in 2001. An HD Remix with new characters would be completely badass but I can see them porting the Wii U version and making it Deluxe before that ever happens...virtual console would be a great idea though.
LumpOfCole
Member
I still think it was kind of amazing that Nintendo even made Gamecube Controller Adapters and Gamecube controllers for the Smash Brothers Wii-U.
This argument isn't a good one to make because 3S has zero tournament presence to begin with. We're talking about Melee with 1,000+ possible entrants for some tournaments compared to 3S which has zero tournament presence. This would be a good argument to make if 3S not only even had tournaments but if the sizes of those tournaments were in the hundreds to thousands (like Melee).
I have no issue with Nintendo's approach. Reggie had a good answer the other day, different than the one in the OP but similar about getting more people to play together, supporting the growth of competitive play, but not targeting the pro scene or leagues specifically. Something about not doing big money payouts but getting more people into the fun of local competitive play more broadly.
HD remasters of beloved multiplayer games has been going on for a while now, do you people who have a thousands reason for why melee hd is a bad business idea think the same applies to these games. People bitching about old version being purer isnt unique to melee and developers have found ways to appease these ppl by including the original game. Also unlike those games melee is still massively popular and could easily cross a million going by the competitive scene size of current fighters that crossed a million.
DarkConfidant
Member
Aside from recently starting the Nintendo Versus brand, they spent far more time at E3 hosting tournaments than they've done any other year, and probably much more so than any other publisher.
They like eSports now.
They're just hypocrites about Smash (for now).
The better comparison would be SF4, given that is something that was still very much alive when it was effectively abandoned for the next one.
pretty much
disappeared
Banned
That, and their association and participation in esports happens only when they think it's a good idea, to which they'll act like they're doing the community some gracious favor.
RoombaDance
Member
From today's Polygon article, another Reggie quote:
Sounds like they want to support tournaments and competitive play, but aren't interested in building a league of pro gamers.
Sounds like they want to support tournaments and competitive play, but aren't interested in building a league of pro gamers.
GiantBreadbug
Member
The George Lucas comparison is about as off base as you can get.
It's actually really interesting to see how one sect of the fan base of the series considers there to be a "correct" way to make the game, almost like they're entitled to some specific vision or direction for the series.
Yeah this is it, basically.
Brainfreeze
Member
I can't even begin to describe how frustrating these topics can be on Neogaf. This post is so clueless it's astounding.
Let's be clear: Within a reasonable margin of error, it's safe to say that the ENTIRE competitive Melee community wants Melee ported to Switch. They also wanted it ported to Wii U. They just want it on new consoles in a digital format so new people can play without tracking down old, outdated hardware and overpaying for a physical copy of the game. We aren't attached to our CRTs other than the sense of pride that we're all crazy enough to deal with they horrible machines because we love and care about the game so much.
If Nintendo decided to do help the scene with just a simple Virtual Console release, all of the competitive players would be happy. This means that Nintendo literally wouldn't have to do anything but build a Gamecube emulator and load Melee onto it. Considering Melee was the best selling Gamecube title by far and still has an incredibly active community, it's safe to say that Melee alone would recoup the cost of making that emulator: if not, I'm sure Nintendo would make it back by re-releasing other GCN titles.
This means Nintendo doesn't have to change ANYTHING. We're literally making it as easy for them as possible; if you're emulator is good, then all is well in the world. If they choose to upres it, add a PAL/NTSC switch, add online play, etc. that would be greatly appreciated, but it's not necessary. Additionally, no one is asking for gameplay changes, they have zero reason to do so, and even if they did make some, it makes literally no sense and shows a clear misunderstanding of the game mechanics to think they would or even could "take out wavedashing." They absolutely could rebalance some characters; hell, if they're really crazy they could even add a few. But they can't take out movement systems without breaking the entire game; not just from a competitive perspective, but in general. Nintendo doesn't need to, wouldn't want to, and has no real means to remove the parts of the game that make Melee competitive. Those facets are much more integral to the game systems than many here seem to believe.
This idea of Melee fans being super picky and that there's really any reasonable chance of them rejecting a Melee port is ridiculous. And a port alone could do wonders for Melee'ss scene, while selling well. It's an arrangement that could make all parties happy.
If Reggie doesn't want to set up a league, that's fine and, honestly, it makes sense. I don't think anyone is really all that upset about that either, because realistically we've all seen Nintendo's tournaments and, while fun, they aren't really conducive to top-level play. But not having a Melee HD (short hand for any modern way of playing Melee) is astounding, and I wonder if misunderstandings like the ones we see in this thread are a reason why we haven't seen it by now.
Edit: And, to the point of Hungrybox's original point: I think part of the frustration actually does come from the types of tournaments they have at E3. Those are cool and fun and a great way for Nintendo to help introduce people to competitive gaming while also selling their games: they're honestly great marketing tools for both the game and the scene. However, you can look at the three tournaments they had this week and see Smash everywhere. Invited players, organizers, commentators, production, and more. Everytime they want to do something like this they look to the established Smash scene for help. And that's great! But it starts to feel a little dirty when they use our enthusiasm and love for Nintendo (because most Smash fans are also huge Nintendo fans, and are also huge contributors to their other eSports scenes) when it's convenient to them, but then ignore it the rest of the year. I know they're a business, and in a way our excitement for their products is really only a means to get our money, but it's kind of shitty to then also use that enthusiasm to further market their games and make more money off of others without giving us anything in return. And that doesn't have to be money. They tweeted this today:https://twitter.com/NintendoVS/status/875839776091324416 and you can see the replies are full of people just saying "Thank you."
That level of support has only ever seen appreciation from smashers in my experience, and it takes such little effort on their part. They've brought booths with game demos to a couple of tournaments in the past as well, and that's always well received as well.
It really just does everyone well to keep Smash and Nintendo on good terms with each other, and it takes such little effort from Nintendo to make it happen. I don't know why, outside of Bill Trinen and JC (who I love) they seem so scared to acknowledge the scene at all.
Also, one last thing: In terms of sales, obviously a port of Melee would sell well on Switch. But I see a lot of people talk about how it would cannibalize a Smash 5's sales (which is ridiculous to me, as we don't apply this same argument to any other franchises on the virtual console). If this were true, than all it takes is spacing them out. If they released Melee HD this year, and then the Smash 4 port next year, then all problems are alleviated. I think this is part of the reason why we're seeing people like Hungrybox get a little more aggressive about expansion right now. Some people think that if we're going to get Melee HD, now's our best chance.
Its great to hear Nintendo responding but I think the big problem is the grassroots action for community events wants this support but when given throws it back saying it isn't grassroots anymore. Nintendo fostering communities through the tools they give them is a great idea, and means they aren't stepping in and just throwing money around to make tournaments happen like a lot of other eSports games do. By growing these communities and then bringing the bigger ones on stage allows a diverse nature of Nintendo eSports, instead of just big titled matches that only a select few can ever compete in.
To me that's where Reggie is coming from, and what I can see in the community. Complaints at the moment seem to be coming from those who want Nintendo to step in and put their weight behind them which is fair enough, but when they do they then argue its ruining the community-grown stages which makes no sense. In the long run I think Nintendo will continue to adapt and understand the community needs, hopefully implementing the best tools possible for eSports competition.
To me that's where Reggie is coming from, and what I can see in the community. Complaints at the moment seem to be coming from those who want Nintendo to step in and put their weight behind them which is fair enough, but when they do they then argue its ruining the community-grown stages which makes no sense. In the long run I think Nintendo will continue to adapt and understand the community needs, hopefully implementing the best tools possible for eSports competition.
Garrett 2U
Member
Did you watch their E3 spotlight?
Secret Owl
Neo Member
Except they've been making some big moves into eSports, starting with Smash 4.
They began sponsoring tournaments and putting on (a few) of their own. Right now they're pushing Arms, Splatoon 2, and Pokken DX as potential eSports. They also pushed Pokken a bit when it was just a Wii U / arcade game.
Whether these games are "traditionally hardcore" or "competitively deep enough" in the eyes of the FGC is another matter entirely. It's hard to know yet. Keep in mind, it took over a decade for most trad fighting game communities to respect Smash Bros. as a valid fighting game - let alone one that is worthy enough to be considered a competitive eSport.
What people actually need to accept is that Nintendo isn't going to put major effort into fostering the competitive community of a 16-year-old game that seems to be perfectly capable of fostering itself (and also loves said game because of exploits that undermine much of the intended gameplay / balance.)
Also, they are one of Pokemon's "legal parents" and the Pokemon championships have been a major eSport for a very long time.
Street fighter 3 is not even as close to the size of melee and its player base for the most part has migrated. If street fighter 3 was as popular as melee and coinhabited the space with sf4 capcom probably would have released an hd remake ages ago or a street fighter 3-2. Given melees prior sales and current stature theres no universe in which a remake isnt profitable.