-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sonic Origins had to replace some Sonic 3 music (no Michael Jackson?)
aliadiere25
Member
That's a huge pass for me then. The music is a huge part of why Sonic 3 was good.
Punished Miku
Member
This is all a needless distraction from Sonic Frontiers.
ManaByte
Gold Member
But they're selling a $5 "Classic Music" DLC pack (which is included in the $45 version), and if they can't include the MJ music what the hell is the use of that DLC?!?
aliadiere25
Member
Probably just means Sonic 1, 2 and Sonic CD. Very misleading and scummy, but they can say, "oh, we never specifically said which classic music."
Also, there is no way this "port" should cost more than £20. £37 is an absolute joke of a price.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Glad I have the XBLA Sonic 3 (which is BC). It has the MJ music!
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
I dont care about the pedo guy and his Music (i never liked). Gimme the game SEGA.
Last edited:
aliadiere25
Member
I have a RetroPie, which has all the retro classics I could ask for. I can just play the older Sonic games on there.
Celcius
°Temp. member
Hmm I’m still interested though. The loss of the ice cap zone music sucks but:
“As Katie said, these tracks, originally presented in MIDI form in S&KC and unpolished in the Sonic 3 prototype, have recently been given an FM makeover by Jun Senoue for integration into the finished soundtrack”
I’m willing to give the new stuff a chance. Plus, if this is what it takes for the games to get a re-release then I guess it’s necessary. Maybe wait for reviews and listen to the tracks before buying or writing it off y’all.
“As Katie said, these tracks, originally presented in MIDI form in S&KC and unpolished in the Sonic 3 prototype, have recently been given an FM makeover by Jun Senoue for integration into the finished soundtrack”
I’m willing to give the new stuff a chance. Plus, if this is what it takes for the games to get a re-release then I guess it’s necessary. Maybe wait for reviews and listen to the tracks before buying or writing it off y’all.
Last edited:
anthony2690
Banned
My guess would be, this is for the sound/music gallery in the game and will probably let you listen to music from games like sonic spinball/3d blast etc
Rip Ice Cap Zone and the ending credits
Not fussed about losing carnival zone though
aliadiere25
Member
To be honest, I don't expect this to sell that well at all. The price is too high, so I'll wait till there is a big discount, which probably won't be too long.
Magic Carpet
Member
Just replace it with some nice soothing piano music. Works for Sonic Frontiers.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
Yeah... this is just a big turn off all round.
t_wilson01
Member
This is the first time I've heard of this. Can someone please explain to me what's going on?
I have great nostalgic memories of Sonic 1-3, S&KC, and even Knuckles' Chaotix. I love the music in those games and can't imagine playing them without it.
I have great nostalgic memories of Sonic 1-3, S&KC, and even Knuckles' Chaotix. I love the music in those games and can't imagine playing them without it.
Last edited:
Kokoloko85
Member
What have the replaced the music with?
ManaByte
Gold Member
Kiddo Cabbusses
Member
This is probably the best summary I can surmise on my own:
1) Sonic Team is crunching to deliver Sonic 3 and by this point have already had to split the game in two to get something out the door by the release date. Also, the sound code is buggy. (This is all from the Sonic 3 prototype)
2) Sega of America decides the solution to this is to bring in Michael Jackson's sound team - the most notable of which is Brad Buxer, who will be important when the music rights stuff hits the fan 20-some years later.
3) Said sound team, allegedly, produces a completely all-new soundtrack for Sonic 3.
4) Work is then done, at a VERY late stage in development, to bring this music into the final game.
5) In the VERY short timeframe this music was being implemented, Jackson and Sega had a parting of ways for unconfirmed reasons.
6) At this point, Sega CLAIMED Jackson sound team's music was removed from the game
7) But it's clear going by how similar Sonic 3 credits is to "Stranger in Moscow" that there's traces of it.
8) There's speculation for years about what music is Jackson's music, but in retrospect it's pretty obvious, because....
9) At some point in the latter 90's, Sonic & Knuckles Collection comes out for PC with some Sonic 3 music tracks different from the retail Sonic 3. Initial speculation is that the tracks could not be replicated in MIDI correctly.
10) Meanwhile, everywhere else Sega just releases Sonic 3 with the original release soundtrack, until...
11) At some point, Brad Buxer decides to release unreleased tracks from his band "The Jetzons". Eventually, the Sonic fans researching Jackson's involvement come across this and listen to the track "Hard Times".
The similarities to Ice Cap Zone make the music go viral.
12) Meanwhile, Sonic 3 released on Steam.
13) tl;dr Brad Buxer's estate smells blood and there's implications of behind-the-scenes legal action.
14) Sega spends around the timeframe from 2012 to Sonic Origins' prerelease not acknowledging anything from Sonic 3.
15) Meanwhile, Sonic fans find a prototype of Sonic 3. Hoping to find more Jackson tracks, they instead find a build that has tracks like the ones in Sonic & Knuckles Collection, suggesting that these were the tracks the game was originally designed with after all. Why the Jackson tracks are in the final Sonic 3 when these tracks existed all along is now a mystery for the ages.
16) The tracks affected by all this; Knuckles theme (Sonic 3 version), Miniboss theme (Sonic 3 version), Carnival Night Zone, Ice Cap Zone, Launch Base Zone (both acts for all of these), Sonic 3 credits, Competition menu. Note that this is a select few (though notable) tracks, not the entirety of the game like is testified that has been done. If Jackson's sound team composed any further tracks, they are now lost media.
Gosh, I TRIED to make it short...
It may not sound like this, but here are some tracks from the earlier-mentioned prototype for reference.
Last edited:
Michael Jackson helped out on Sonic 3 and the following tracks are his and his producers...
- Knuckles Theme
- Mini Boss Theme 1
- Carnival Zone
- Ice Cap Zone
- Launch Base Zone
- End Credits
Those are the ones that will be replaced with the backup SEGA tracks from that time.
ManaByte
Gold Member
People try to say it was due to the allegations, but the more believable explanation is that MJ wasn't happy with how his music translated to the Genesis' Yamaha sound chip.
Kokoloko85
Member
Wow they sound awful compared to the originals.
Sega had amongst the best music those days
Doesn’t really bother me, and I already expected it, hopefully Jun’s mix will be more like a polished version of the proto and less like Sonic 4.
In all honesty the only really loss to me is Ice Cap, the other ones I prefer the proto tracks or since I usually play S3K only are really missed (Credits and Knuckles theme).
In all honesty the only really loss to me is Ice Cap, the other ones I prefer the proto tracks or since I usually play S3K only are really missed (Credits and Knuckles theme).
Last edited:
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Looool. Why are people getting so worked up over the music? People saying they're not going to buy the game because the OG music has been taken out. Lol, please!
Sonic 3 is a classic, with or without the music. I'd still play it if the soundtrack was replaced with looping sound of two cats banging. That's how good Sonic 3 is.
Sonic 3 is a classic, with or without the music. I'd still play it if the soundtrack was replaced with looping sound of two cats banging. That's how good Sonic 3 is.
ManaByte
Gold Member
I'm not paying $40 for another Sonic 3 re-issue without the original music.
t_wilson01
Member
Kiddo Cabbusses
Y
YCoCg
Thank you both. Much appreciated.What a tangled web we weave. I was completely oblivious to all this. Fantastic bit of reporting Kiddo Cabbusses.
The Sonic 3 prototype music is "interesting".
1. Carnaval Night Zone Act 2 sounds rather similar to Hydrocity Zone Act 2.
2. Launch Base Zone Act 1 should be the music for Carnival Night Zone.
3. Knuckles' Theme and Competition Menu are rather bad.
Last edited:
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
So you'd buy it just for the OG music? That's crazy. The music won't be missed for me. If I did pick it up I'd play it on mute anyway.
ManaByte
Gold Member
That's the only way I would've bought it.
Kiddo Cabbusses
Member
The reason the situation feels a bit weird after all that is how it is apparent that Jackson and Sega were still on good terms privately. (At the very least for the Space Channel 5 cameo, and most likely up until his passing away)
It gives the impression that the disbanding was mutually agreed upon. And yet... somehow it all came to this point.
I mean, I won't really miss Jackson Sound Team's Carnival Night or Launch Base either, but regardless, there is a basic matter of preservation here. Sonic Origins has been forced to become a compromised product due to legal matters that are seemingly beyond Sega's own control. Once again, copyright is the ultimate enemy of preservation.
Last edited:
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Folks have had an infinite number of ways to play Sonic 3 with original music for over 2 decades. The game has been ported a dozen times across a dozen platforms. Yes it sucks the music won't be in there, but I mean these things happen in the legal/business world. Its understandable.
ManaByte
Gold Member
The last time the original version was re-released was on XBLA (which is delisted), Sonic Classic Collection on the DS (lol good luck) and on Steam as DLC for the Genesis collection (also delisted). All of those were over a decade ago. It has not been re-released complete since 2010.
Last edited:
LRKD
Member
Imagine being dumb enough to still believe the medias lies about mj 30 years later
Celcius
°Temp. member
It was either this or never bring them back again.
Honestly, this is a dealbreaker for me. Hey Sega, maybe a better way to honor Sonic's history would be release the games intact.
RAIDEN1
Member
Imagine if M.J did music for a Mario game at that time, he would have had a chance to work with a sound chip designed by the legendary Ken Kutaragi!
radewagon
Member
It depends on said price, the Michael Jackson estate prevented Vice City from having his two songs in the game, demanding something ridiculous like billions because people are only playing the game for his two songs. Yeah they're that arrogant.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
don't blame Sega, The MJ Foundation obviously want too much to justify it.
Everyone has a price. I'm guessing Sega just doesn't want to pay it.