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[undeadhero]

I loved Super Mario Galaxy when I finally played it in 2020 with the Switch re-release. I was taken aback at how masterful the design was, and how strong the story, presentation, soundtrack, and characters were. The setting and story really elevated the experience – every Mario game plays well, but no other Mario game actually tries to tell a meaningful story like Galaxy did. To me it made sense that the setting was so rich they would want to do a sequel. And people have hyped Galaxy 2 for so long, I was so excited to finally play it once the re-release happened.

And now that it has, I think it is... disappointing?

I am reasonably early in right now (only two worlds in) but I feel like Galaxy 2 feels closer to what I expected from Mario games – it has amazing gameplay and design, but the story is completely gutted. It's not there. They repeat some basic setup from the original game, and that's it. The spectacle is all gone. Rosalina and her storybook is gone??? (Apparently the re-release adds some of her back, but I haven't run into that yet).

It is a very well playing game, and I am enjoying that, but the original Galaxy was also a well playing game, what it was on top of that was attempting things that Nintendo games and especially Mario games never do, which is what made it stand out so much. And it's not being done in Galaxy 2, which is a bit disappointing.

Is this something that changes as you progress through the game? I do recognize I am early in so maybe it's too premature to make judgments on the lack of story elements right now?

It's better if you ask me.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

I didnt know this! Do you have any links or articles about it? It sounds interesting that there have been creative disagreements about story focus in Nintendo games

Not sure where I read it, might have been Iwata Asks. AI might help:

• Wired interview with Yoshiaki Koizumi (Dec 2007). Koizumi says he "tr[ied] to find sneaky ways" to put story into Nintendo games and that these were "aspects… Miyamoto wasn't nearly as fond of, and occasionally didn't like." He specifically discusses adding Rosalina's storybook to Super Mario Galaxy. (https://www.wired.com/2007/12/interview-super/)
• Nintendo's official "Iwata Asks" (Galaxy 2, Vol. 1, p.2). Miyamoto reflects on the first Super Mario Galaxy, saying he had told the team "Mario games didn't need a story or movies," yet "before I knew it, there were quite a few movies and a substantial amount of story," and that for Galaxy 2 they talked about "cutting out such elements." This is a first-party source confirming the internal tension over story. (https://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/wii/supermariogalaxy2/0/1/)
• Wired at E3 2009. Miyamoto further explains that Super Mario Galaxy 2 would have a lighter story than the first game, reinforcing his stance versus Koizumi's storytelling push. (https://www.wired.com/2009/06/super-mario-galaxy-2/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Honestly, I get what OP's saying. The presentation doesn't feel as "complete" as Galaxy did in a way, which... I don't personally have an issue with, but I can understand.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Zelda is different. It's Koizumi that added all the story bits to Mario (and Link's Awakening, too).

Wasn't he responsible for the Z-targeting as well as OOT not being in first-person? Damn dude deserves a medal.

 

[kevboard]

Wasn't he responsible for the Z-targeting as well as OOT not being in first-person? Damn dude deserves a medal.

he eventually got his first person action adventure tho. because afaik Miyamoto is the one who demanded Metroid Prime to be first person.

the original version that was developed for N64 was third person. they had to redo almost the entire core gameplay. the level design was mostly carried over from the N64 project tho.

 

[TintoConCasera]

he eventually got his first person action adventure tho. because afaik Miyamoto is the one who demanded Metroid Prime to be first person.

the original version that was developed for N64 was third person. they had to redo almost the entire core gameplay. the level design was mostly carried over from the N64 project tho.

Really? That's cool, didn't knew it's development got so far while still aiming to release on the N64.

Guess he deserves two medals now!

 

[kevboard]

Really? That's cool, didn't knew it's development got so far while still aiming to release on the N64.

Guess he deserves two medals now!

yeah, there's only a few screenshots of it that leaked afaik, and in one of them you see parts of the areas near your ship's landing space.
Miyamoto wanted first person because he thought it would be more intuitive for a game with shooting elements if I remember correctly.

edit:
here's the screenshot I meant:

 

[stickkidsam]

Ocarina had a good story

Was that because of or in spite of him?

 

[Trilobit]

I think SMG2 improved upon a lot of SMG1. It was just wildly imaginative and threw one thing after another at you. SMG was of course amazing, but the sequel felt more polished.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Who plays Mario platformers for the story?

Much preferred Galaxy 2 myself, more blue skies for a start.

 

[Kuwitzzer]

Good point about a Mario game having unique and interesting story can make it stand out more from its siblings. Great storytelling can elevate any art forms. Bing Bing Wahoo can definitely have great story if Nintendo tries. Afterall, we have countless examples of PG animated movies throughout history with incredible storytelling.

 

[existensmaximum]

I absolutely agree OP. The levels are amazing and the level design couldn't be better, but the presentation, "story" and the whole package is just non-existent. Why should I care about the ugly purple alien thing? The Rosalina "story" and framing was infinitely better and just made the game feel much more meaningful.

Mario games don't need story per se, but they need to have some presentation at least. This is just sloppy.

 

[Kuwitzzer]

For all the things I've loved about Miyamoto's games, this is the one thing I've never understood. The dude just outright doesn't seem to like story in his games. Like any of them.

Ocarina's story is engaging, simple but engaging. The story follows Link becoming a hero through a passage of time, from childhood to adulthood, and there is something very grandeur and holy about his journey (elevated by the art direction of the Temple of Time). I actually feel invested in Link's chosen destiny because the story gives me reasons to care, like when you go outside the church after becoming adult Link, seeing the stark difference between the town before and after. Or when you go to places that used to be so lively and full of people as adult Link just to realize something wrong happened here while you were in a magical slumber. I will still enjoy the game even if the story does not exist, but everything just feels much more meaningful when there is a story to be told.

 

[justiceiro]

I mean, I thought everyone knew that. That is the most common take regarding this game. Galaxy 1 has more story and presentation, Galaxy 2 focus on more gameplay and ease of navigation.

 

[BlackTron]

I mean, I thought everyone knew that. That is the most common take regarding this game. Galaxy 1 has more story and presentation, Galaxy 2 focus on more gameplay and ease of navigation.

Many people are only just learning it for the first time. I was shocked by how excellent 2 was when it came out. I was even pleasantly surprised by the menu screen replacing the 3D hub world. Being on Wii, a game with no story, no dumb gimmicks, just start playing the game, with a new feature that is actually cool and better (aim Yoshi).

 

[Trilobit]

Does anyone have an in-universe explanation for why a luma was suicidally depressed in a Mario movie?

 

[ecosse_011172]

It's basically huge DLC with incredible level design.

 

[Boo Who?]

For me, there is only one great 3D Mario and that is Mario 64. That's not nostalgia. It's because the game literally feels better to play than everything that came after. It also has the best level design of everything that came after.

I rank Galaxy 1&2 as the worst of the 3D games. Even below Odyssey, and that is a low bar.

The 2D side only has a couple of great games too. SMB and SMB3. The rest are just good.

 

[Sintoid]

Tetris has a lot of twists

 

[Ulysses 31]

It's a platformer.

He can't attack the platforming so he attacks the story.

 

[crackajack]

The story in the first one was charming and added some warmth, but iirc the second one was overall a bit more polished and refined. More of the same but a joy to play.

 

[BlackTron]

Does anyone have an in-universe explanation for why a luma was suicidally depressed in a Mario movie?

In-universe explanation: the Luma had gone batty from captivity and thought the release of death was better than going on staring at bars. But you knew that, because you saw the movie.

Out-of-universe explanation: They thought it would be amusing comic relief

 

[Trilobit]

In-universe explanation: the Luma had gone batty from captivity and thought the release of death was better than going on staring at bars. But you knew that, because you saw the movie.

Out-of-universe explanation: They thought it would be amusing comic relief

It was a while since I saw it. I just remember it being quite nihilistic, not just because of the imprisonment.

 

[BlackTron]

It was a while since I saw it. I just remember it being quite nihilistic, not just because of the imprisonment.

While the prisoners were being lowered into the lava in cages, the luma goes "finally, release" or something like that. You don't meet the luma before it is in the cage, so, how do you know it did not go crazy waiting in imprisonment.

 

[Trilobit]

While the prisoners were being lowered into the lava in cages, the luma goes "finally, release" or something like that. You don't meet the luma before it is in the cage, so, how do you know it did not go crazy waiting in imprisonment.

True. We need a prequel. Until then I'll go with this explanation:

Lumalee's character in the movie is inspired by the Lumas from Super Mario Galaxy, who willingly sacrifice themselves to become planets or supernovas to save galaxies. This context explains why Lumalee has such a grim outlook on life and death.

The Real Reason Why Super Mario Bros’ Lumalee Star Is So Dark - IMDb

IMDb, the world's most popular and authoritative source for movie, TV and celebrity content.

m.imdb.com

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Mario games have stories ?

Super Mario RPG had a good story

 

[BlackTron]

True. We need a prequel. Until then I'll go with this explanation:

The Real Reason Why Super Mario Bros’ Lumalee Star Is So Dark - IMDb

IMDb, the world's most popular and authoritative source for movie, TV and celebrity content.

m.imdb.com

I mean no harm filling in with some world-building. But I wouldn't go out of my way to overwrite what was suggested in movie with an explanation from screenrant. They're both compatible. Maybe watch the movie again.

 

[kapshin]

Mario games have stories ?

Yes that bitch gets kidnapped and is always in another castle.

 

[Team Andromeda]

dude if you want story play the rpgs

Tell that to Sonicretro forums, who go balls deep on how Sonic platform or even Sonic's bloody racing games must have a story LOL

 

[Rran]

For all the things I've loved about Miyamoto's games, this is the one thing I've never understood. The dude just outright doesn't seem to like story in his games. Like any of them.

This isn't exactly true. In fact, Miyamoto was one of the first game designers to INCLUDE story elements in his games. His first game opens with a non-playable cutscene that establishes the premise! Donkey Kong was pretty unusual for the time for using distinct characters and relationships (simple as they were) as the stars of the game. I think only Pac-Man and a couple other games had done it before then.

Likewise, Super Mario Bros featured little diegetic touches that Miyamoto also pushed for, such as the cutscene transition between level 1-1 and 1-2 to explain why Mario is suddenly underground. King Koopa cartoonishly hovers above the lava pit before falling in. Mario automatically walks to the next room to get bad news from Toad. We take it for granted now but small story elements like this were very much not the norm at the time.

If I had to peg Miyamoto's thoughts on story in games, I think he's generally averse to movie-style storytelling (which a lot of devs kind of get obsessed with), and/or lengthy sequences where you cannot control your character.