Support NeoGAF

[pel1300]

When he sees the footage of what the Avengers are up to from 2018 Nebula's recordings, he gets Nebula to work on re-engineering the Pym Particle. While she is doing this, he goes to Earth immediately with his entire army and kills Cap (at this point in time the Avengers are split up). Then goes after Tony. And then the rest of the Avengers (Black Widow, Hawkeye, War Machine, Hulk, and Thor). At this point, Thor's power level is nowhere near what it is in Infinity War. Then he conquers Earth (how he defeats the Ancient one...who knows). Maybe he takes the mind stone from Hydra and with the mind stone manages to defeat her.

Then after this he uses the Pym Particle to travel to 2023 and shows the Avengers Cap's decapitated head and says he already killed them in his timeline and he is gonna do it again.

Everything else plays out the same way as in the final film, the only difference being the Avengers know that this Thanos already conquered Earth in an alternate timeline.

 

[pimentel1]

Decapitated Cap! God damn!

 

[bitbydeath]

Decapitated Cap! God damn!

That was never going to fly given the ratings they aim for.

 

[pimentel1]

That was never going to fly given the ratings they aim for.

I dunno. They decapitated Thanos in endgame.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

No way any blockbuster movie series is going to have the bad guy kill off all the good guys and win.

Sounds like a BS article to get people second guessing.

It would be like someone saying in 2010, there was a Batman movie script where instead of Joker losing, Heath Ledger wins by killing everyone including Batman and the butler....... we were 5 seconds away from green-lighting that script for theatres!

 

[pimentel1]

No way any blockbuster movie series is going to have the bad guy kill off all the good guys and win.

Sounds like a BS article to get people second guessing.

It would be like someone saying in 2010, there was a Batman movie script where instead of Joker losing, Heath Ledger wins by killing everyone including Batman and the butler....... we were 5 seconds away from green-lighting that script for theatres!

In avengers 2, tony stark had that dream where they were all lying dead on the field. Maybe it was supposed to be a follow up to that scene.

 

[Falcs]

I dunno. They decapitated Thanos in endgame.

Yeah, but they didn't then hold it up and show it off, did they?

 

[pel1300]

They didn't have to go as far has Cap decapitated but they could have maybe just showed it with 2014 Nebula recording footage (Thanos killing the avengers in 2014).

 

[sol_bad]

No way any blockbuster movie series is going to have the bad guy kill off all the good guys and win.

Sounds like a BS article to get people second guessing.

He would have only beat the 2014 Avengers, not the current 2023 Avengers that we are following.

 

[Tesseract]

this whole thing has gotten so dumb

oh yeah he would have killed those dudes in that one timeline but not the other huh, uh huh, right, let me snort some dmt and make sense of that

infinity war was the perfect ending to this franchise and they bungled it

 

[pel1300]

this whole thing has gotten so dumb

oh yeah he would have killed those dudes in that one timeline but not the other huh, uh huh, right, let me snort some dmt and make sense of that

infinity war was the perfect ending to this franchise and they bungled it

What do you think of Terminator 1 and 2?

 

[Tesseract]

What do you think of Terminator 1 and 2?

i think those movies set out with time travel in mind and skirted around the subject by embracing deeper concepts like determinism, compatibilism, hands of fate

 

[TheGreatYosh]

Infinity War was one of the only good Marvel movies.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Too bad, that would have been cool and made Thanos even more threatening than he already was.

 

[sol_bad]

this whole thing has gotten so dumb

oh yeah he would have killed those dudes in that one timeline but not the other huh, uh huh, right, let me snort some dmt and make sense of that

infinity war was the perfect ending to this franchise and they bungled it

The concept is easy to grasp if you were paying attention. The past doesn't affect the present because when you travel back in time it creates a new alternate reality time line.
Multiverse - Infinite universes.

*EDIT*
It makes way more sense than traditional time travel like in Terminator and Back to the Future.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

The concept is easy to grasp if you were paying attention. The past doesn't affect the present because when you travel back in time it creates a new alternate reality time line.
Multiverse - Infinite universes.

*EDIT*
It makes way more sense than traditional time travel like in Terminator and Back to the Future.

If time travel is real that's probably how it would really work.

 

[Revolutionary]

I dunno. They decapitated Thanos in endgame.

In the most comical and PG way possible.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Who cares already half of all life dies, Black Widow kills herself, etc the movies are already filled with death and cynicism this wouldn’t change much. Everyone knew they were coming back anyways.

Movies were sloppy messes this sounds like it might have been 10% sloppier

 

[Tesseract]

thanos should have won

 

[NeoGiffer]

Spoiler

 

[scrob6]

No way any blockbuster movie series is going to have the bad guy kill off all the good guys and win.

Confirmed for never having seen Infinity War.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

The concept is easy to grasp if you were paying attention. The past doesn't affect the present because when you travel back in time it creates a new alternate reality time line.
Multiverse - Infinite universes.

*EDIT*
It makes way more sense than traditional time travel like in Terminator and Back to the Future.

Isn’t that exactly how Terminator works tho?

 

[scrob6]

Isn’t that exactly how Terminator works tho?

Not really? Terminator is a causality loop.

- person does a thing
- you want to prevent it
- you send robot back in time to kill person
- person gets killed
- they never did the thing
- you never had a reason to send a robot back
- robot never gets sent back
- person does a thing
- repeat

 

[Ownage]

Decapitated Cap! God damn!

Watch Snowpiercer if you wanna see Cap offer some proper beatdown.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Confirmed for never having seen Infinity War.

And look what happened with End Game.

 

[sol_bad]

Isn’t that exactly how Terminator works tho?

My understanding from watching T1 and T2 a million times is that Skynet sends a Terminator to the past to kill Sarah Conner and change the future.
Why would Skynet care if it was changing some alternate reality, it's still defeated in the end?

 

[Stilton Disco]

The concept is easy to grasp if you were paying attention. The past doesn't affect the present because when you travel back in time it creates a new alternate reality time line.
Multiverse - Infinite universes.

*EDIT*
It makes way more sense than traditional time travel like in Terminator and Back to the Future.

But they then completely undermine it by having Old Cap show up at the end.

Although that guy being a completely different timelines Cap we never met before would explain why he both had a sheild and why he must have thought Falcon had superpowers to be able to use said sheild.

My understanding from watching T1 and T2 a million times is that Skynet sends a Terminator to the past to kill Sarah Conner and change the future.
Why would Skynet care if it was changing some alternate reality, it's still defeated in the end?

Skynet was never playing with a full deck of cards with it's decision to nuke the planet in the first place, but we're never shown how time travel actually effects the future in the series. It may well be BTTF esque.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The whole Terminator timeline doesn't make sense.

Skynet and advanced AI wouldn't have even been built up if a Terminator wasn't sent back and Dyson and the tech company got hold of the chip.

T-800 gets sent back in the 1984 flick and eventually loses to a hydraulic press. Failure.

OK, why not send back liquid T-1000 to the same timeline again (before Linda Hamilton knows killer robots are coming) and surely T-1000 would have an easier time than T-800.

 

[bitbydeath]

The whole Terminator timeline doesn't make sense.

Skynet and advanced AI wouldn't have even been built up if a Terminator wasn't sent back and Dyson and the tech company got hold of the chip.

T-800 gets sent back in the 1984 flick and eventually loses to a hydraulic press. Failure.

OK, why not send back liquid T-1000 to the same timeline again (before Linda Hamilton knows killer robots are coming) and surely T-1000 would have an easier time than T-800.

Why just send back one at a time in the first place?

 

[sol_bad]

But they then completely undermine it by having Old Cap show up at the end.

Although that guy being a completely different timelines Cap we never met before would explain why he both had a sheild and why he must have thought Falcon had superpowers to be able to use said sheild.

The Cap at the end is the same Cap that returns the Infinity Stones.
He went back in time to return the stones, then went back to the 40's to be with Peggy. He lived his life with Peggy. With Steve's enhanced body, we have no idea how long he can live for, he might be able to live for 300 years for all we know. Point is he spent his life with Peggy and the family he had their and created with her. When he felt that time was right, he returned to the present 2023 time line and gave Sam the SHIELD.
Bruce says that Steve misses the time co-ordinate in that scene, this means that he was pulling Steve back to their time. We can assume that it just looked like he missed their time point and actually just bypassed the teleport platform. We know the platform isn't required for time travel as Steve and Tony teleport from 2012 to the 70's without a platform.

 

[Kadayi]

I think Capt just went back to the 1950s and lived his life with Peggy and then just wandered back to the spot when the time was right. He knew what to say and he had the shield for them. It's not like he wore the nano time suit all his life.

 

[pel1300]

I'm disappointed Thanos turned out to have no abilities beyond being a big strong guy. How would he deal with Doctor Strange?

In the comics has has telekenisis and long range energy blasts.

The way he is presented in Endgame, his own henchman Ebony Maw could take him.

 

[bitbydeath]

I think Capt just went back to the 1950s and lived his life with Peggy and then just wandered back to the spot when the time was right. He knew what to say and he had the shield for them. It's not like he wore the nano time suit all his life.

Wouldn’t that put him in the multi-verse though? They’re not meant to be able to move to different timelines without going to a new strand.

 

[Mihos]

The concept is easy to grasp if you were paying attention. The past doesn't affect the present because when you travel back in time it creates a new alternate reality time line.
Multiverse - Infinite universes.

*EDIT*
It makes way more sense than traditional time travel like in Terminator and Back to the Future.

It was also based on a real time travel theory. I recognized it immediately when Stark had it open on his computer hologram.

Time Travel - The Mobius Time Loop

This site discusses the possibility ofTime Travel and its associated paradoxes from a philosophical rather than apurely scientific viewpoint. This page discusses how you could represent the grandmother paradox using a mobius strip

www.cix.co.uk

 

[Starlight Lotice]

The whole Terminator timeline doesn't make sense.

Skynet and advanced AI wouldn't have even been built up if a Terminator wasn't sent back and Dyson and the tech company got hold of the chip.

T-800 gets sent back in the 1984 flick and eventually loses to a hydraulic press. Failure.

OK, why not send back liquid T-1000 to the same timeline again (before Linda Hamilton knows killer robots are coming) and surely T-1000 would have an easier time than T-800.

By sending it back, they effectively get created which is why 2 is mostly about preventing Skynet to counter the T-1000

 

[TacosNSalsa]

I'm disappointed Thanos turned out to have no abilities beyond being a big strong guy. How would he deal with Doctor Strange?

In the comics has has telekenisis and long range energy blasts.

The way he is presented in Endgame, his own henchman Ebony Maw could take him.

While I wish they did stick closer to the comics I wonder how the movie going audience would've taken to what happened .

 

[slugbahr]

It was also based on a real time travel theory. I recognized it immediately when Stark had it open on his computer hologram.

Time Travel - The Mobius Time Loop

This site discusses the possibility ofTime Travel and its associated paradoxes from a philosophical rather than apurely scientific viewpoint. This page discusses how you could represent the grandmother paradox using a mobius strip

www.cix.co.uk

"...based on a real time travel theory"

"...from a philosophical rather than a purely scientific viewpoint"

Lmao

 

[Stilton Disco]

The Cap at the end is the same Cap that returns the Infinity Stones.
He went back in time to return the stones, then went back to the 40's to be with Peggy. He lived his life with Peggy. With Steve's enhanced body, we have no idea how long he can live for, he might be able to live for 300 years for all we know. Point is he spent his life with Peggy and the family he had their and created with her. When he felt that time was right, he returned to the present 2023 time line and gave Sam the SHIELD.
Bruce says that Steve misses the time co-ordinate in that scene, this means that he was pulling Steve back to their time. We can assume that it just looked like he missed their time point and actually just bypassed the teleport platform. We know the platform isn't required for time travel as Steve and Tony teleport from 2012 to the 70's without a platform.

There is zero indication of this in the movie. Its treated completely straight as that simply being the same Cap which doesn't make a lick of sense with the rules they established.

Wouldn’t that put him in the multi-verse though? They’re not meant to be able to move to different timelines without going to a new strand.

It's all sloppily written nonsense. Best not to think about it and just try and enjoy the explosions.

Actually, one thing that's just come to me, is that in Winter Soldier, when Cap's at the museum watching archive footage of Peggy, she talks about her husband, which is presumably that Old Cap in endgame that logically has to be from another universe (although he never actually confirmed he'd married Peggy now I think about it), but it clearly shows her in a photo with her children.

So if that Old Cap did marry Peggy, presumably he has some potentially superhuman kids and grandchildren out there...

 

[DeafTourette]

The whole Terminator timeline doesn't make sense.

Skynet and advanced AI wouldn't have even been built up if a Terminator wasn't sent back and Dyson and the tech company got hold of the chip.

T-800 gets sent back in the 1984 flick and eventually loses to a hydraulic press. Failure.

OK, why not send back liquid T-1000 to the same timeline again (before Linda Hamilton knows killer robots are coming) and surely T-1000 would have an easier time than T-800.

The timeline keeps changing because when they go back in time, they keep resetting the future of skynet. The original timeline had things working out at a set point in time. It was still set that way in T2. But then T2 reset the timeline so that skynet came at a later date but with the same set of circumstances (model of the T-800, Kyle Reese, etc)

 

[iconmaster]

Time travel is always a dumb plot mechanic, unless you're playing its silliness for comedy (Back to the Future).

You can never make it make sense.

 

[sol_bad]

There is zero indication of this in the movie. Its treated completely straight as that simply being the same Cap which doesn't make a lick of sense with the rules they established.



It's all sloppily written nonsense. Best not to think about it and just try and enjoy the explosions.

Actually, one thing that's just come to me, is that in Winter Soldier, when Cap's at the museum watching archive footage of Peggy, she talks about her husband, which is presumably that Old Cap in endgame that logically has to be from another universe (although he never actually confirmed he'd married Peggy now I think about it), but it clearly shows her in a photo with her children.

So if that Old Cap did marry Peggy, presumably he has some potentially superhuman kids and grandchildren out there...

The old Cap at the end is the same Cap that returned the Infinity Stones. He did not return to the 40's, live out his life and then just appear in the present because the present was changed. He time traveled back to the present. Bruce Banner mentions earlier in the movie that someone can live in an alternate time for as long as they want and then return back to the present at the exact same time that they left. Me talking about 300 years and what not is just an example of what could have happened. Point is he lived in the alternate reality for however long and then time traveled back to the present.

There is zero indication that Peggy married Cap in the present time, you are assuming and making head cannon. Why are you presuming it's Cap? Peggy potentially married one of the Howling Commando's and had children with them. Why would you think Peggy would never get married just because Cap was killed?

Regarding Sam, I have no idea why you are mentioning that Sam has super powers or why Cap would think he has super powers. Cap handing over the shield has nothing to do with super powers at all.

 

[Stilton Disco]

The old Cap at the end is the same Cap that returned the Infinity Stones. He did not return to the 40's, live out his life and then just appear in the present because the present was changed. He time traveled back to the present. Bruce Banner mentions earlier in the movie that someone can live in an alternate time for as long as they want and then return back to the present at the exact same time that they left. Me talking about 300 years and what not is just an example of what could have happened. Point is he lived in the alternate reality for however long and then time traveled back to the present.

There is zero indication that Peggy married Cap in the present time, you are assuming and making head cannon. Why are you presuming it's Cap? Peggy potentially married one of the Howling Commando's and had children with them. Why would you think Peggy would never get married just because Cap was killed?

Regarding Sam, I have no idea why you are mentioning that Sam has super powers or why Cap would think he has super powers. Cap handing over the shield has nothing to do with super powers at all.

That's all just head canon. Theres is absolutely nothing in the movie to indicate that Cap isnt the one that went back in time and just never returned, married Peggy and then waited on that bench. It's very clearly intended to be the same guy taking the long way back, and it's simply a massive plot hole, because the movie is badly written.

I jokingly say he must be another universes Cap because it fixes the same plot hole your fan theory does, but obviously neither of us are right, because the movie absolutely does not take it's on established rules into account with that scene.

It's the same with the 'Falcon had superpowers in another universe' joke, because of how dumb it is to give the sheild to the one of his two friends that didn't have any super strength or agility and thus couldn't do anything particularly useful with it, because Falcon getting the sheild with his normal human abilities and wing suit that needs both hands to pilot, logically would just find the big metal disc a massive bloody hindrance.

But we're both pulling nonsense out of our arses. I'm just not taking it seriously, because it's a very silly movie full of plot holes and bad writing.

 

[manfestival]

Infinity War was the bad guy winning. Yeah it couldnt just END there but it is a great movie because it subverts expectations of having the bad guy not just win but crush it

 

[kingwingin]

If you killed the avengers in 2018, they would be dead in the 2023 as well.

Makes no sense

 

[GV82]

No way any blockbuster movie series is going to have the bad guy kill off all the good guys and win.

Sounds like a BS article to get people second guessing.

The writers or Russos told about the Thanos decapitating caps head story to Kevin Smith on the IMDb boat at SDCC & I think they may have told it elsewhere too either their panel orsome interview like mtv news, So I don’t think it was that far off the truth, they thought it would be good if Thanos would Taunt them with Caps head to show he had indeed defeated him in that timeline & ther was nothing they could do

Edit : found it about 11:18mins in, am going to rewatch now

 

[sol_bad]

I jokingly say he must be another universes Cap because it fixes the same plot hole your fan theory does, but obviously neither of us are right, because the movie absolutely does not take it's on established rules into account with that scene.

It's the same with the 'Falcon had superpowers in another universe' joke, because of how dumb it is to give the sheild to the one of his two friends that didn't have any super strength or agility and thus couldn't do anything particularly useful with it, because Falcon getting the sheild with his normal human abilities and wing suit that needs both hands to pilot, logically would just find the big metal disc a massive bloody hindrance.

What rules does it break though? We see Steve and Tony travel to the 70's without a teleport platform.

*EDIT*
Cap isn't about having super strength or super powers, he is about freedom and protection, you don't need super powers to be Cap, you need his beliefs. Bucky isn't himself 100% yet and the world would still see him as a terrorist, within his own mindset he wouldn't find himself worthy because of all the innocent people he killed when he was mind controlled. Sam doesn't need his fans to fly, from what I can tell he uses his weight to shift and turn, his hands aren't attached to his wings.

 

[bitbydeath]

The Russos answered the Cap time travel question on an AMA.