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[Synth]

Are you referring to the 80gb PS3 model that had a narrow library of backwards compatibility?

It's almost like PS2 emulation on PS3 was a difficult shit-show.

I'm saying the existing "full software" solution that runs PS2 Classics, can run basically the entire PS2 library, often better than the "case by case" examples they were selling, and so it could have been left bundled with the PS3 in place of the previous solutions, rather than making the PS3 non-BC outside of selling the games individually.

No.

He wants Sony working in two emulator profiles (more work, less titles) and trophies, HD features being a DLC.

I prefer how it is today.

No, because the standalone emulator wouldn't have profiles. It'd be like running a PS2 game off a disc on a custom firmware PS3. Just have a disclaimer (like PS2 Classics on PS3 did) that not every game will necessarily run perfectly.

Only the upgraded titles would be receiving the sort of attention and work that they already do today.

 

[KojiKnight]

Seems to not have much "per-game basis work" at all. Like I said, the PS2 Classics emulator on PS3 manages to play most of the library fine. And I don't mean just the games released a PS2 classics on PS3, I actually mean most of the library. People with CFWed PS3s can just inject their PS2 games into the Classics Emulator, and it plays most of the library just fine without the per-game work.


Somehow the PS3 managed to do it. It literally plays most of the PS2 library fine.

"Most" is unhelpful in this discussion... Do you have a compatibility list somewhere? Preferably one detailed enough to lost slowdowns and errors.

 

[Ogodei]

A raw PS2 emulator would be a huge piracy backdoor, wouldn't it? Write some code, put it on a DVD, and suddenly...

 

[Fisty]

This is honestly not a bad idea but not as good as simply providing a free emulator and selling digital copies of ps2 games like they did with PS3. You want as small of a barrier of entry as possible for people to start giving you money.

Exactly, so just sell PS2 games on the PS4 Store that look like every other game on the store without separate emulators or launchers. They currently have the same barrier that buying a game like Uncharted 4 or Destiny has: pay money, download, enjoy

 

[Freddo]

This would be awesome. I would buy the PS2 emulator right away.

Also still waiting for the PS4 to be able to play all the digital PS1 games like the PS3, PSP and PS Vita can...

 

[androvsky]

A raw PS2 emulator would be a huge piracy backdoor, wouldn't it? Write some code, put it on a DVD, and suddenly...

The drive can tell the difference between a burned disc and a legit, pressed DVD. Because there's some shady DVD pressing plants, there are pressed DVD PS2 boot discs that will let you run unsigned code, but it's easy to check the disc to make sure the executable isn't on a blacklist before running anything. Or even whitelist every legitimate PS2 game released if they're really concerned, Sony shouldn't have any trouble throwing a bunch of interns on that.

 

[KalBalboa]

This would be awesome. I would buy the PS2 emulator right away.

Also still waiting for the PS4 to be able to play all the digital PS1 games like the PS3, PSP and PS Vita can...

What was the last we heard about PS4 reading CD-Roms?

 

[DarkConfidant]

Only thing that makes me want to buy an Xbox is to stick it to Sony for not having BC......

Spoiler

lol not going to happen. I lose.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Only thing that makes me want to buy an Xbox is to stick it to Sony for not having BC......

Spoiler

lol not going to happen. I lose.

If the console race were close i think we'd have PS1 and PS2 BC.

 

[Alchemy]

You can't do real software emulation without addressing weird edge cases on a per software basis, so theres zero chance of any company ever releasing a general emulator for discs to buy on their console. Imagine how pissed people would be if you had to pay for the OG Xbox emulation on the 360 and a bunch of your favorite games didn't work.

 

[KalBalboa]

You can't do real software emulation without addressing weird edge cases on a per software basis, so theres zero chance of any company ever releasing a general emulator for discs to buy on their console. Imagine how pissed people would be if you had to pay for the OG Xbox emulation on the 360 and a bunch of your favorite games didn't work.

"I paid $20 and I can't play Jak & Daxter 2, wtf?"

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

Love the idea, but Sony seems more interested in me not buying PS2 classics on PS4. Except for Ape Escape 2 when it was on sale, and it was totally worth it.

 

[GhostTrick]

Yeah... no.
Here's how you do PS2 emulation properly:
I put my disc in the tray, game start, at HD resolution. No need for trophies.
Plain and simple.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

You can't do real software emulation without addressing weird edge cases on a per software basis, so theres zero chance of any company ever releasing a general emulator for discs to buy on their console. Imagine how pissed people would be if you had to pay for the OG Xbox emulation on the 360 and a bunch of your favorite games didn't work.

That's never stopped Bethesda or Telltale from releasing games on consoles though.

 

[WaterAstro]

This wouldn't eat into the development of new games...

Do you think that's what the current PS2onPS4 (or VC) games are doing? And PS2onPS4 requires ongoing work for each title, this would have a logical endpoint where the emulator is just "done".

Oooooh yes it does. It requires a significant amount of time and money to ensure that every PS2 game works with the emulator with engineering and testing support.

You see, there's this other company that's been doing BC, and they don't have that many titles out in comparison. In fact, they even cancelled a big title.

 

[KalBalboa]

I hope to hell that the x86 architecture on PS4 follows through to subsequent consoles and results in genuine BC for PlayStation going forward.

A man can dream.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Man, this is great. I wish they would do something like this but I don't see it ever happening. Especially having lost some of their very pro-consumer execs (Boyes, Suttner).

 

[Synth]

Oooooh yes it does. It requires a significant amount of time and money to ensure that every PS2 game works with the emulator with engineering and testing support.

You see, there's this other company that's been doing BC, and they don't have that many titles out in comparison. In fact, they even cancelled a big title.

Are you seriously trying to suggest BC is related to Scalebound getting cancelled? For real? C'mon...

Also, MS' approach to BC is a completely different matter, their emulator can't actually run the code as it is on the disc. This is why when you put the disc in, it downloads the game anyway... it's downloading a recompiled executable, that for all we know could take a local Xbox One hours to build for itself. This is why the topic generally addresses PS2 emulation, and not PS3 emulation, as Sony has enough knowledge of the hardware (unlike say MS with OG Xbox, as NVIDIA screwed them), and certainly enough hardware grunt (the PS3 could do it mostly) to have a local emulator that wouldn't require every game see individual development.

Hell, if everyone's so worried about a compatibility list... simply have a whitelist, and let a select group of users test the games via an insider program to add working games to it (i.e. don't pull a fucking VIta on the whitelist).

 

[Theonik]

I don't think Sony can just slap together a good PS2 emulator, right?

They already have a great one. They just don't want to offer it for free.

 

[meerak]

I would love this.

Thanks for the dreams OP, will cross my fingers for this.

 

[Willy Wanka]

I've said before that I would pay a one off fee for this but considering Sony can't even be bothered to implement PSOne support (which would be trivial in comparison), I'd say the chances of a stand-alone PS2 emulator happening are ~0%.

 

[KillGore]

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the remaster ran the same.
It's not like The Last Guardian wasn't a slideshow or anything.

It's a remake though, and it's done by another developer

 

[FZW]

PS2 Classics emulator on PS3 managed to play most of the PS2 library just fine so eh, I don't think it would need as many tweaks and hacks as you think.

I dont know, the PS4 CPU is actually weaker than the Cell.

 

[Van Bur3n]

I ain't paying anyone SHHHHHIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEET.

 

[Tain]

selling an emulator that is bound to have more issues than prior BC solutions seems bad

 

[Fafalada]

If you think Sony will be able to match the workflow of a community of unpaid hobbyists to get a universal PS2 emulation solution on PS4

Matching PSCSX2 wouldn't really be much of a universal solution.

"Most" is unhelpful in this discussion...

It has better general compatibility than PCSX2. Which admittedly is not a high bar to beat, but it gets brought up as a PS2 emulator benchmark around here.

Sony shouldn't have any trouble throwing a bunch of interns on that.

I think the more pertinent question is whether platform holders even have the rights for complete library BC on latest hw. If the answer isn't yes, then you're looking at a subset of the library no matter whether you're emulating, using BC-hardware, or streaming.

 

[th4tguy]

I dont know, the PS4 CPU is actually weaker than the Cell.

Only with specific types of computations. 360 CPU could outperform the cell in some areas. So can xbone and ps4.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Because I'm being realistic. Their competition isn't charging because they're in dire need of more customers, so they will naturally make their offers as appealing as possible.

You're paying for a service, since such an emulator has to be developed first (even though it already is running on PS4). I believe that hardware emulation should be free. Free software emulation on the other hand is pure goodwill and a money sink for those companies, so I don't expect it to be free.

How about no, fuck that. I'm not paying for backwards compatibility w/games I already own. I sure as hell wouldn't excuse Sony charging for it, either, especially on the basis that they're the market leader.

Shaking my head, man.

Oooooh yes it does. It requires a significant amount of time and money to ensure that every PS2 game works with the emulator with engineering and testing support.

You see, there's this other company that's been doing BC, and they don't have that many titles out in comparison. In fact, they even cancelled a big title.

So which team would be working on the BC? Guerilla Games? Insomniac? Naughty Dog?


Oh, wait.

 

[Freddo]

What was the last we heard about PS4 reading CD-Roms?

The PS4 not reading CD-ROMs is irrelevant. Neither the PSP or the PS Vita can read CD-ROMs, but they can still play PS1 games from the PS Store.

 

[Synth]

I think the more pertinent question is whether platform holders even have the rights for complete library BC on latest hw. If the answer isn't yes, then you're looking at a subset of the library no matter whether you're emulating, using BC-hardware, or streaming.

You don't need current licensing to make games compatible. You need licensing to distribute them. This would affect which games could be resold on PSN (or in MS' case which can be made BC at all, as they always have to redistribute the games), but in terms of sticking a disc in the drive and playing from there, it's a non-issue.

For example look at all those cheap AtGames or TecToy Genesis/Megadrive consoles, or the Analogue NT. They can play the entire libraries of the straight from the original pressed carts, and don't have to concern themselves with any of those game's licensing details... hell, the Analogue NT doesn't even have to care about Nintendo's approval (which they certainly wouldn't get otherwise).

 

[davepoobond]

now that there are pictures, sony is certain to make this happen

 

[androvsky]

I think the more pertinent question is whether platform holders even have the rights for complete library BC on latest hw. If the answer isn't yes, then you're looking at a subset of the library no matter whether you're emulating, using BC-hardware, or streaming.

Speaking of only BC with physical discs, how do they even need rights to BC? They're not distributing or pressing the property of the publishers, only redistributing a software emulation of Sony's own hardware. I don't see how it's different from something like the Retron 5 (ignoring the GPL3 emulator mess) being able to play the NES, SNES, Genesis, and other catalogs without any publisher's blessing.

What is possible is that Sony risks annoying a publisher that would rather sell HD collections, and is almost certainly what's really going on here. Square Enix would rather sell HD collections of FFX, FFXII, KH, and so on, Sony themselves would rather sell remakes of SotC and Parappa, and make a deal with Activision for the Crash Trilogy.

Personally, I think Sony would sell very nearly as many copies of PS4 remakes of most of those games even if the PS4 played the originals. If they're not making real improvements to the remakes to make them worth buying, they shouldn't be bothering in the first place. And if the PS4 could play originals from PS1 and PS2, we could enjoy recommending other games that will never get a remake, and not feel like we're being squeezed when proper remakes get announced.

 

[Stealthcobra]

The ps2 read 3 different color dvds.. How would they account for that

 

[Jezbollah]

Sony didnt buy the technology behind PSNow for a laugh - it's a heavy investment that would be seen as a waste if they did this. It's a revenue generator that is reflected right back to the shareholders.

If they hadnt made this prior investment, OP's option may stand a small chance of happening. But the fact theres a lot of money behind PSNow makes this dead in the water.

 

[RayCharlizard]

Sony didnt buy the technology behind PSNow for a laugh - it's a heavy investment that would be seen as a waste if they did this. It's a revenue generator that is reflected right back to the shareholders.

If they hadnt made this prior investment, OP's option may stand a small chance of happening. But the fact theres a lot of money behind PSNow makes this dead in the water.

PSNow has nothing to do with PS2 emulation.

 

[Fafalada]

Speaking of only BC with physical discs, how do they even need rights to BC?

I'm don't really know - there's only one case of a console I'm aware of that had BC two generations back (PS3). What you guys say certainly makes sense - I was just wondering if there could be anything akin to region-lockouts which are placing restrictions on media playback, not just distribution.

Square Enix would rather sell HD collections of FFX, FFXII, KH, and so on, Sony themselves would rather sell remakes of SotC and Parappa, and make a deal with Activision for the Crash Trilogy.

That's presumably preferable to just re-licensing for Digital distribution yeah - and considering disc-only brings no return to Sony either, it's a likely reason as any.

Personally, I think Sony would sell very nearly as many copies of PS4 remakes of most of those games even if the PS4 played the originals.

Agreed.

 

[Hanzaki]

Sorry OP I just don't get it why is it soooo important to you to play PS2 games on a PS4.
Just buy a 400$ PC then download an emulator and play PS2 games on it in HD.

Sony won't do it. Evidently they didn't make enough money on PS2 emulated games otherwise there would be hundreds of PS2 games on PS4 already.

 

[Figboy79]

I'm pretty sure that Sony has considered this idea and passed on it, but I know I'd fucking buy a PS2 emulator for my PS4, yet still buy whatever PS2 Classics they release digitally, in particular for titles I don't have the discs for (which is quite a few, actually, as I couldn't afford many PS2 games back during its run, what with being a minimum wage paid customer service guy, but now I have money burning a hole in my pocket, and a bunch of PS2 titles I'd love to play for the first time if they were to get a digital release, and a modest library of PS2 games I adore that will never get a PS2 Classics digital release (ie, Shadow of Destiny, Second Sight, etc).

I don't really like fiddling with popping my PS2 discs in the computer to run a PC emulator, and would rather pop them into my PS4.

I know Sony wants to make money, and they will. I think most of the emulator junkies know the pros and cons of whatever PS2 emulator Sony would release (ie, not all games being 100% compatible).

I just want to revisit Silent Hill 2 and 3 the way they were meant to be experienced!! That HD Collection is balls, and I refuse to give Konami that money (unless they release a proper, reverse-engineered by Bluepoint PS4 version).

 

[Night.Ninja]

Hey Cortana play battlefield 3

 

[AerialAir]

God, the amount of masterful PS2-era Japanese games is too much, please Sony, let me buy this thing, you already have the emulator anyway.

 

[Andrefpvs]

I like it, seems reasonable.

Same way they should handle CD playback. Rather than pay a blanket fee for everybody when most won't use it, make the user pay a small fee to cover the license of CD playback.

The PS2 emulator needs to be patched to support the Pro. Currently there are no Pro enhancements for it, the games render at exactly the same res as OG PS4.

I'd pay for CD playback. I am running out of devices that play my audio CDs.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Doesn't sound like Sony can knickel and dime us enough with that solution. How would we re buy all our old games that way?

 

[2SeeKU]

I can't believe people would be honestly happy to pay for a software emulator. How would that be in the consumers favour??

Xbox and WiiU did it right; BC available for free. The switch has an excuse given its form factor but the PS4 is a step backwards in terms of customer experience when compared to the PS3. I do hope Sony comes around on these anti consumer policies before the PS5.

 

[Gitaroo]

They should start giving us psone and psp digital backward compatibility before anything

 

[RomeoDog]

I don't think OP is crazy because if devs would charge me for 3d mode as an option in games. I'd probably pay.

There's definitely a market for creating niche features via DLC. But the game industry currently isn't up to date on that.

 

[Synth]

I can't believe people would be honestly happy to pay for a software emulator. How would that be in the consumers favour??

Xbox and WiiU did it right; BC available for free. The switch has an excuse given its form factor but the PS4 is a step backwards in terms of customer experience when compared to the PS3. I do hope Sony comes around on these anti consumer policies before the PS5.

Obviously free would be better... but what OP is suggesting is infinitely more in consumers' favour than the current PS2onPS4 situation, and even has value over what Xbox offers (removes licensing issues that cause games to be lost to time). The WiiU situtation with Gamecube (but NOT Virtual Console) is the best solution, but I can see why it's not always realistic to expect.

 

[Figboy79]

Doesn't sound like Sony can knickel and dime us enough with that solution. How would we re buy all our old games that way?

The whole, "How would we rebuy our old games that way?" argument would be stronger if Sony was actually offering us the chance to rebuy all of our old games at all. The situation as it currently is, is that the vast majority of PS2 games aren't available to play on PS3 or PS4. Some games are available, but the PS2 had a massive games library. Outside of buying a PS2, or having a backwards compatible PS3 (which I do have, but the disc drive finally gave up the ghost, so I can't pop in any PS2 or PS3 discs until I get it replaced somehow), there is no way for gamers to play their favorite PS2 games on their PS3 or PS4.

It'd be one thing if Sony had the entire PS2 library up on the PS Store, and were nickel and diming us that way, but they don't. They have a very small selection of PS2 titles. Ideally, a free emulator would be the way to go, but we know Sony would rather make money off of us in some way. A one time emulator purchase could circumvent having to pay licensing fees out to the various IP holders, but the IP holders could still re-release their PS2 classics on the PlayStation Store with Trophy support and other functions if they desire.

The solution the OP is proposing is to at least give the consumer the option to play all of their games on a single platform (since we know the PS4 has a PS2 emulator in some form).

As I mentioned before, I have PS2 games that I know for a fact will never, ever get re-released as a PS2 Classic for some reason or another (ie, studio that holds the IP rights went under and didn't sell the rights to another company).

 

[dogen]

I dont know, the PS4 CPU is actually weaker than the Cell.

only for certain things, and that's assuming the code is written specifically to run fast on the cell

 

[dragonzdogma]

Taker34 for sonys vice president

 

[Nick_C]

PS2 Classics emulator on PS3 managed to play most of the PS2 library just fine so eh, I don't think it would need as many tweaks and hacks as you think.

This was the case when it was hardware-based emulation. To cut down on costs, Sony removed some of the hardware needed and partially emulated with software. Quite a few games weren't compatible. When the slim launched they only had the hardware for PS1 and PS3 disc compatibility. Around the same time that more and more PS2 classics started showing up on the PS Store.

PS3 and PS4 emulation is handled on a car by case basis because the emulator isn't one size fits all. The hardware required for full compatibility across all PS2 game formats is more than likely not under the hood of the PS4.

To the OP: Until you can show me an emulator running all PS2 games like they ran on their original hardware I can not take what you have to say regarding it with much weight. Anyone could say that something is easy to do, but unless they have a deep understanding of what it takes to accomplish the goal their words mean very little.