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[semiconscious]

well, afa a number of the heavy hitter studios go, i think the idea that they might, at the very most, may be able to get out 2 games per console generation at this point, & the financial repercussions of that reality, is finally having an impact on their thinking when it comes to considering return on investment...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There are some true covid bubbles like Pelaton. Its real. Gaming covid bubble is maybe used a bit to often as an excuse but its probably real too. Same with streaming.

Those are two seperate issues. Pelaton doing well during Covid is logical. Suggesting CEO's throughout the most competitive entertainment industry on earth didn't know Covid was going to end is illogical.

 

[OuterLimits]

Greed and capitalism combined with a gaming population that's largely fucking stupid is a match made in heaven for the overall quality decline of the gaming industry as a whole.

A ton of greed was definitely occurring the last several years but certainly not Free market capitalism. The Government(federal and state) was essentially deciding who were going to be winners and losers. Giant corporations largely were allowed to remain open which resulted in record profits for many, while small family owned businesses were forcibly closed in lockdown.(many didn't have the financial means to reopen sadly)
Trillions of dollars in stimulus were flooded into the system and the giant corporations got a massive chunk of that pie. Hell, apparently we have no clue what happened to hundreds of billions of that stimulus cash.(fraud at a never seen before level)

Gaming companies were largely beneficiaries early on. People were mainly at home and needed activities besides drinking excessive amounts of alcohol and having sex with a partner they were getting tired of being stuck with 24/7.

Not surprisingly, Those trillions played a big role in the inflation and even supply chain woes that quickly followed. It is rather amazing to me that gaming companies didn't realize the glory days for them were going to be very brief.

 

[Rockman33]

Hate this take. Every CEO and their mother knew that Covid was going to end. Nobody hired based off a perpetual doomsday scenario.

Hate this take? This is exactly what happened. Their business and numbers went up. So they hired way more people than they needed.

 

[Majukun]

pandemic brought a lot of extra players, companies hired more knowing that they have the mechanism in place to cut the workforce down to size at any time if things didn't kept going on pandemic levels.
now we are seeing said mechanism take place.

Hate this take. Every CEO and their mother knew that Covid was going to end. Nobody hired based off a perpetual doomsday scenario.

oh they do knew it was coming.
they also knew that as long as they hired people with fixed term contracts, firing them is not much of an issue in most countries

 

[Klayzer]

I'm start to think I'm the only one here enjoying gaming, what's with all doom and gloom? This year I had fantastic time with gaming, in fact my biggest issue was keeping up with all the games coming out back to back.

I guess mostly because I dont care much about graphics or tech and I mostly asian games.

Preach Brotha. 2024 gaming has been terrific. So many games, not enough time to play everything.

 

[Shifty1897]

The market is oversaturated with games and there are less consumers willing to pay $70 on a new game. A large portion of gamers now are locked into "forever games" like CoD, WoW, Fortnite and not only balk at the idea of buying a new game every month, but the idea of spending $70 on any new game is foreign to them now. The PSN sales leak shows how little most games make on there. Game studios will continue to close until the market corrects itself.

 

[cormack12]

Laziness.

If the consoles had changed architecture and didn't have cross gen capability we wouldn't be in this position. There would also be more games/1st party title exclusives.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Companies spending 70billion on deals that don't add anything new for the consumer but put burden on that company to get that money back. Resulting in shitty deals for the consumer, and cost cutting for the company.

 

[onQ123]

Because there was a huge jump from Covid and the industry expected it to continue. But it balanced back out.

Hogwarts Legacy , Pal World, Helldivers 2 & Baldur's Gate 3 all happened after this so called bubble bursted .

As we speak PlayStation is selling a $200 controller & a $200 remote play device like hotcakes . Nintendo could make a Mario staring game where people just stare at the Nintendo Switch to see who can look at Mario the longest without blinking right now & it will sale at least 5 million by the end of the year .

It was just announced that GTAV sold 200 million games are still selling well these companies just trying to replace all these people with AI & keep more profits & other BS that they got going on.

 

[GigaBowser]

WHEN switch 2 release and then GTA is on ps5 it will explode my friends

 

[kruis]

WHEN switch 2 release and then GTA is on ps5 it will explode my friends

Yep. 50% of all PS gamers have yet to upgrade to a PS5. The new GTA is going to be the biggest game launch of all time and GTA being a "next gen" exclusive is going to make many of those last gen stragglers finally upgrade.

 

[DenchDeckard]

And it's only going to get worse.

Had some crazy meetings this last week. Budgets are not being signed off. The purse strings have officially been pulled to extreme levels.

We are already in what feels like a slump but I can't see how it can get even worse.

There has to be some new way to do these games. Revisit episodes but that won't work because of shit dev delays etc.

I dunno. I admit I'm loving my Japanese games and will happily welcome more lower budget games to get them out the door but something needs to shift.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Interest rates are high and the myth of infinite growth ain't cutting it as a metric of potential success.

Investors want to see profits and operating in the black.

It's come time for the bills to be paid and the audience ain't there.

They need to return to projects that can survive on modest returns for long term stability and growth.

 

[Laptop1991]

I don't think the industry has been healthy for a long time, its been declining for the last few years with too many gaas games being made just to make money which don't sell or average and broken games that gamers quite rightly don't want to buy, which they won't own anyway and in the last year, we are seeing the result of all this greed and not caring about the quality of most games, i haven't bought a new game since Cyberpunk was released and at the minute there still isn't a new one i want to pay the ever increasing price for.

 

[hyperbertha]

But as of now games are still selling really well

Then why did you make this thread?

 

[FeralEcho]

Greed

 

[onQ123]

Then why did you make this thread?

Because of all the layoffs & studios shutting down.

 

[RoboFu]

It's almost as if something happened where everyone had to stay home and just play with their friends online.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

I imagine Covid made it peak but aside from that there's the whole thing where publishers release games that aren't done/are trash and people are sick of it. Too much greed. You can't spend half a billion to make some bullshit game that isn't finished and tries to nickel and dime the consumer. If you're going to attempt to monetize everything you better bring it like Fortnite or maybe Genshin or you may as well just fuck off. That's the bar. The bar is extaordinarily high. Good luck.

Nothing is really wrong that's not going to correct itself imo. Release good games and people will buy and play them. I'm excited af for some upcoming things like Earth Defense Force, Warhammer 40K Space Marine 2, and GTA VI. I think (assuming all of them are good) those games are going to do very well just like normal.

 

[Hudo]

Yep. 50% of all PS gamers have yet to upgrade to a PS5. The new GTA is going to be the biggest game launch of all time and GTA being a "next gen" exclusive is going to make many of those last gen stragglers finally upgrade.

That's kinda sad that Sony cannot convince people already in the Playstation ecosystem by their own offerings and output to upgrade and have to rely on a third-party game.

 

[Beechos]

Business as usual for corporate America. When there's a loss or no growth, try to merge with another company or reduce costs by cutting front line staff.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

That's kinda sad that Sony cannot convince people already in the Playstation ecosystem by their own offerings and output to upgrade and have to rely on a third-party game.

They've sold a ton of PS5s but I do agree with your point. God Of War, Ghost Of Tsushima and so on...there hasn't been any real system sellers that are exclusively next gen and it's ridiculous at this point. We're three and a half years into the PS5s life and there's no huge game you need a PS5 for. It's actually a little surprising that they've managed to sell what they have. And now they're apparently releasing a PS5 Pro? What is this for??

 

[DaGwaphics]

Most of the game companies don't live and die by the actual profits and loss of the business, but the opinions investors have of that business at any given moment. The gaming industry is healthy, the major players are profitable, games are selling well and the gotcha casinos are churning out the cash. But flat profitability isn't good enough, because investors want to put their money into companies that are growing their money, thus these businesses could lose their evaluation if they don't get some growth from somewhere or find a way to make investors assume that growth is around the corner. So, basically the layoff, cuts, and cancelled projects are more about CEOs and boards watching out for their bank accounts.

 

[ungalo]

I don't know what healthy means in this case but i think we saw a transition and it's a logical outcome. I'm not surprised.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Hate this take? This is exactly what happened. Their business and numbers went up. So they hired way more people than they needed.

That's different than suggesting they all thought Covid was forever.

 

[Negotiator]

TL;DR explanation:

FED raised interest rates up to 5% and fucked everyone up. Every corporation (not just MS) has huge loans...

And why did FED do that? Because COVID fanatics wanted to shut down the economy back in 2020-2021, all while getting their $1200 stimmy checks, which caused inflation later on.

Most people are too selfish to admit that was a huge mistake...

 

[simpatico]

The workers are no longer able to be pushed to hit deadlines. It's not just the gaming industry.

There's a leadership crisis.

 

[MikeM]

The market is oversaturated with games and there are less consumers willing to pay $70 on a new game. A large portion of gamers now are locked into "forever games" like CoD, WoW, Fortnite and not only balk at the idea of buying a new game every month, but the idea of spending $70 on any new game is foreign to them now. The PSN sales leak shows how little most games make on there. Game studios will continue to close until the market corrects itself.

That, and why buy new when you can buy on sale and get a vastly superior product? I’m done with day 1- its the worst version for the most expensive price.

 

[diffusionx]

Industry was in a bubble from 2020-2022, 2023-2024 is the correction. Too much hiring, too much easy money, too many companies chasing fads. Yet the fundamentals are fine, it's not a crash.

 

[lachesis]

Covid bloat burst + inflation (less consumer spending power) + high interest rate for companies + stagnant atmosphere as a whole medium being designed by committee + exponentially rising cost of development.

Basically cutting the fat time.

 

[nemiroff]

What do you mean by what's going on?

Historically there's been no vacation from turbulence, shifts in the market and technology, etc. The industry is much bigger and in many ways more noticeable.

 

[Dane]

Budgets ballooned way out of the proportion of the consumer market growth, imagine your game got 10x more expensive in 20 years but the market only grew 2x, console market for example is basically stagnant in same hardware tier since 128-bit days.

Here's a food for tought: Bobby Kotick, regarded as one of the biggest assholes in the industry, is the same Bobby Kotick who greenlit games like Tony Hawk, Marvel games, Prototype, Soldier of Fortune and etc.. Because that's how you made money back then, however these franchises fell out of the market because of decline in quality and/or change in consumer taste (this can apply to Tony Hawk for example). Imagine that you could easily have ROIs at 300-500% on mid and high end projects, and now many studios have to settle for 100% at best, as this is expected to be Insomniac's case in their leaks.

Also this comes around the three issues

1) Forever games that didn't exist during the "golden years", are on top on the spending and these studios surely know how to maintain them at the helm.

2) Supply and Demand, too many good games for a slow growth public.

3) In case of the west: Mismanagement is at its peak with half of development time, and therefore money, being into waste.

 

[Rockman33]

Hogwarts Legacy , Pal World, Helldivers 2 & Baldur's Gate 3 all happened after this so called bubble bursted .

As we speak PlayStation is selling a $200 controller & a $200 remote play device like hotcakes . Nintendo could make a Mario staring game where people just stare at the Nintendo Switch to see who can look at Mario the longest without blinking right now & it will sale at least 5 million by the end of the year .

It was just announced that GTAV sold 200 million games are still selling well these companies just trying to replace all these people with AI & keep more profits & other BS that they got going on.

Correlation does not equal causation

 

[Rockman33]

That's different than suggesting they all thought Covid was forever.

They thought the new numbers and revenue was going to be sustained and continue to grow. It didn’t.

 

[Shubh_C63]

We should all band together and vow to buy more microtransactions and deluxe edition.

And yes always pre order. That will save it !

 

[simpatico]

What do you mean by what's going on?

Historically there's been no vacation from turbulence, shifts in the market and technology, etc. The industry is much bigger and in many ways more noticeable.

So once all the normies start paying attention to gaming, the game industry decides to begin their worst artistic output. What could go wrong?

 

[Shin-Ra]

They've sold a ton of PS5s but I do agree with your point. God Of War, Ghost Of Tsushima and so on...there hasn't been any real system sellers that are exclusively next gen and it's ridiculous at this point. We're three and a half years into the PS5s life and there's no huge game you need a PS5 for. It's actually a little surprising that they've managed to sell what they have. And now they're apparently releasing a PS5 Pro? What is this for??

PS5 Pro’s for developers that can’t/can’t be bothered/don’t know how to optimise a new game to look and perform great on fixed console hardware.

We had two great PS5 launch games in Astro Bot and Demon’s Souls that achieved this, but very little like R&C since.

They constantly want to chase the power and all the silly buzzwords like resolution and framerate and ray tracing instead of just making something fun to play.

Budgets and development time are so far out of whack because everything has to be the “biggest, prettiest, and grandest” version of X game….

I do think Nintendo has cracked the code with the Switch and what they do 1st party wise and that’s why I think you’re going to see them dominate in 2025 with Switch 2.

I’m not sure how resolution and framerate are buzzwords when they’re a continual improvement since ‘video’ games began and Nintendo’s on the same train of evolution, just delayed.

I’d be quite happy to get more simple Astro Bot level graphics if image quality was super high to match. Less open world bloat, tedious travel time and less frequent menu management in action games.

 

[onQ123]

They thought the new numbers and revenue was going to be sustained and continue to grow. It didn’t.

Which games showed a big decline in sales though? I'm not seeing the data that would trigger the mass layoffs other than companies trying to fix their books for the future.

 

[Guilty_AI]

That's kinda sad that Sony cannot convince people already in the Playstation ecosystem by their own offerings and output to upgrade and have to rely on a third-party game.

Playstation has historically been a third party console, so nothing unusual here. GTA 3 bolstered PS2 just as FFVII and Resident Evil did for the PS1.

 

[Wildebeest]

Those are two seperate issues. Pelaton doing well during Covid is logical. Suggesting CEO's throughout the most competitive entertainment industry on earth didn't know Covid was going to end is illogical.

Who cares what business leaders think. They are slaves to investors who are slaves to making crazy bets based on theories like "business cycles" and playing chicken with wild bets to take money from the biggest suckers who think the overhyped investments have real value.

 

[Guilty_AI]

That's different than suggesting they all thought Covid was forever.

There was a belief in tech sectors people would continue working and studying from home even after covid. Turns out their expectations were too optimistic.

 

[simpatico]

It’s not just gaming, Covid free money fucked up a lot. My other hobbies are high end EDC knives and mechanical watches. I paid $6k for my Rolex Submariner in 2017 and sold it for $25k during Covid. Knife market also got fucked up. Prices for doubled and tripled for low production stuff. We’re still trying to find an equilibrium in both markets now. A lot of people “invested” in watches during that and are left holding million dollar bags. Crazy stuff

 

[nemiroff]

So once all the normies start paying attention to gaming, the game industry decides to begin their worst artistic output. What could go wrong?

Worst artistic output..? What do you mean. And this is the reason I asked, because I don't know how some of you quantify it. Without the fundamental facts and a minimum viable argument this is hardly more worth than a simple notion.

 

[Madflavor]

pandemic brought a lot of extra players, companies hired more knowing that they have the mechanism in place to cut the workforce down to size at any time if things didn't kept going on pandemic levels.
now we are seeing said mechanism take place.


oh they do knew it was coming.
they also knew that as long as they hired people with fixed term contracts, firing them is not much of an issue in most countries

This.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Since PS2 generation the console space hasn't really grown in total numbers. However profits have grown because of increased availability via digital distribution and ongoing support. The best selling PS2 game I think didn't top 15 million units. But these games were only available in stores, and they were a done deal.

Nowadays games need not only to sell a truckload at launch, but they need to sell DLC and MTX too. The problem with this is that it seems a certain ceiling has being approached. There is a lot of choice in entertainment from your home, you can also binge series, or play on your phone. So consumers have become more picky. Especially the future generation, they flat out ignore consoles but rather load up Fortnite or Minecraft on a PC or tablet.

A few games sell a ton, others fail to break even. And these aren't 10 million USD projects anymore, but north of 150 million nowadays. Enter less risk taking. Publishers branch out to GaaS since they see ongoing Fortnite revenue streams and want a slice of that. Enter saturation with bad product and games that fall off a cliff in mere weeks.

The console market as it is now isn't sustainable. You get projects that costs 200m+, with a 5 year dev time on a userbase thats perhaps 100 million consoles if these are too ambitious for Switch. Ofcourse this is why even Sony is doubling down on PC gaming this gen. They need more active users.

I am a bit of an old school guy and perhaps its not realistic, but I wouldn't mind some downsizing of software projects. Less focus on chasing realism and AAA, but a higher rate of output in return. I prefer 'gamey' games. You can't deny the fun has been sucked out a lot of these hyper ambitious projects. The amount of walking and non gameplay, as well as useless banter not to mention agendas in GoW Ragnarok, Alan Wake 2 etc is staggering. I much rather fire up Hi Fi Rush, or Unicorn Overlord. There was this thread about God of War 3 the other day and it sort of opened my eyes; it was much more fun to play and there wasn't any filler.

 

[JimmyRustler]

My guess is that we are seeing the consequences of the real talent leaving and being replaced by people who “just do their job”.

No wonder budgets have ballooned. Those people don’t get shit done nowadays. I mean, just look at Bethesda and their output during the 360. And now it took them like a decade for Starfield. It’s a joke. Assuming there are the same people working on the games, there is no logic by which to explain why it took them so long to make the game.

So my only conclusion is that the good people have all left, given up or just don’t give a fuck any more.

What happens when the same people stay and continue to do their job you see by looking at From Software.

Western game development has become a running gag. People like the ones from SBI actively influencing how a game is made and written? All those big companies should relocate in a tent that fits the circus they represent.

 

[AmuroChan]

Yep. 50% of all PS gamers have yet to upgrade to a PS5. The new GTA is going to be the biggest game launch of all time and GTA being a "next gen" exclusive is going to make many of those last gen stragglers finally upgrade.

Context is important. I have a PS5 and PS4. My two kids use the PS4. I use the PS5. So to Sony, 66% of the PSN users in my house have not "upgraded" to a PS5, even though we did. It's just that my kids aren't allowed to use the PS5 because that's daddy's console LOL.

 

[Superkid93]

Markets expand and contract all the time (bull vs bear market) We are in a contraction. It happens to every industry.

 

[Woopah]

That's kinda sad that Sony cannot convince people already in the Playstation ecosystem by their own offerings and output to upgrade and have to rely on a third-party game.

Sony used both first party and third party games to convince people to buy a PS4, and they are successfully doing the same thing to get people to upgrade to PS5s. There's nothing sad about it.