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[Men_in_Boxes]

I feel like this was a legitimately interesting interaction between Matt Booty and some of the developers at Double Fine. Enjoy.

 

[ChiefDada]

Can't believe I'm defending Matt Booty here but if these are employees and not contractors then....

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Am I understanding this right? All pitches they make are owned by Xbox? Regardless of whether they accept them or not?

 

[Mr Moose]

Alanah Pearce would be fired.

 

[ManaByte]

I feel like this was a legitimately interesting interaction between Matt Booty and some of the developers at Double Fine. Enjoy.

Uh this is standard for any company. Double Fine was tiny and it didn't matter to them if someone made something on the side. But if you're working for a large company and make something while you're in that office, they own it. I know people who have patents on code, but even though their name is on that patent; the company they worked for when they made it owns the code.

Can't believe I'm defending Matt Booty here but if these are employees and not contractors then....

Excatly.

 

[ManaByte]

Alanah Pearce would be fired.

For what? Her Youtube channel? No. But if she made some indie game while sitting in the Santa Monica office doing her daily tasks of jack shit, Sony would own that.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The facial expressions were pretty interesting.

 

[Punished Miku]

Am I understanding this right? All pitches they make are owned by Xbox? Regardless of whether they accept them or not?

Of course.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Uh this is standard for any company. Double Fine was tiny and it didn't matter to them if someone made something on the side. But if you're working for a large company and make something while you're in that office, they own it. I know people who have patents on code, but even though their name is on that patent; the company they worked for when they made it owns the code.



Excatly.

Moonlighting isn't working on company time.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Of course.

Not of course lmao. That's dumb as fuck. You don't own the thought experiments of your employees just because they're done inside the walls.

 

[Killer8]

This is just what you get when making a pact with the devil. I'd be directing my ire more towards Tim Schafer for selling all their freedoms away for some short-term stability.

 

[darthkarki]

Uh this is standard for any company. Double Fine was tiny and it didn't matter to them if someone made something on the side. But if you're working for a large company and make something while you're in that office, they own it. I know people who have patents on code, but even though their name is on that patent; the company they worked for when they made it owns the code.

The fact that it's common doesn't make it any less shit. Also, this to me made it sound like anything even outside of office hours is included. It's one thing to say don't work on side projects during office time - that makes sense. But some corporations literally try to control your entire life and say that anything you do at any point now belongs to them, which is absolute bullshit.

As a developer, I would never work for a company that thought it could have any control on anything I did outside of office hours.

 

[Atrus]

A creative, independent studio is cultivating cross-functional experiences and team ownership of the game.

Booty is bringing in the typical corporate position where they want you to do that too, except not really, and you’ll ultimately just sit down and only do that thing you were paid for.

 

[Punished Miku]

Not of course lmao. That's dumb as fuck. You don't own the thought experiments of your employees just because they're done inside the walls.

This is how it works on salary. See the VR Carmack lawsuit.

 

[clarky]

Not of course lmao. That's dumb as fuck. You don't own the thought experiments of your employees just because they're done inside the walls.

Nah im with the other guy. You are paying your employees to come up with ideas, then the ideas are yours.

im sure it works like that everywhere.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This is how it works on salary. See the VR Carmack lawsuit.

Ah right. It's just more stupid american culture

 

[Hudo]

 

[Ulysses 31]

Am I understanding this right? All pitches they make are owned by Xbox? Regardless of whether they accept them or not?

Just like any e-mail you send via hotmail/outlook.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

This is just what you get when making a pact with the devil. I'd be directing my ire more towards Tim Schafer for selling all their freedoms away for some short-term stability.

Short term stability is preferable to studio closure. Tim Shafer may have literally saved his company with that sale. We don't know the financials.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This is how it works on salary. See the VR Carmack lawsuit.

Just had a glance of the lawsuit and no, that's not equivilent

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Nah im with the other guy. You are paying your employees to come up with ideas, then the ideas are yours.

im sure it works like that everywhere.

Not in the EU. You don't own people's idea until it's actually tangible.

 

[ManaByte]

im sure it works like that everywhere.

It does.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It does.

It doesn't.

 

[VolticArchangel]

Am I understanding this right? All pitches they make are owned by Xbox? Regardless of whether they accept them or not?

That's exactly what he meant with his usual MS PR worldsalad™, when he said "I don't know, someday down the road we might go Ha! That IS a great idea! Maybe we should go back and make that game!"

Absolute corporate goblin.

 

[VolticArchangel]

It does.

Unless your pitch is greenlit, you'd be sued to oblivion in the EU.

 

[Snake29]

They all look disgusted by MS and the acquisition.

Next on the list for closure.

 

[Portugeezer]

I wouldn't mind, so long as they don't retroactively go back to steal people's ideas should it catch on, after initially not giving a shit about it.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Microsoft has this taint about them. It's been hard to even take them serious since ether 360 days. They're only lucky they have daddy's money to sustain them and their stupid decisions including buying studios like a trust fund kid who has no idea what to do with them.

Yet you still read apologists and people who passively try any way to make them look good in the face of facts and data.

 

[Wildebeest]

This is not even the truth, as we know that Microsoft's policy if given an idea for a game that isn't CoD or Halo is to shut the studio down in panic.

 

[Neff]

Not of course lmao. That's dumb as fuck. You don't own the thought experiments of your employees just because they're done inside the walls.

If you speak your idea out loud, informally, and it goes nowhere, then any company you work for isn't likely to try to claim it as theirs.

If you spend company time using their facilities, writing up design documents and getting your art department to conceptualise your idea for a formal pitch, then your company is within their rights to claim copyright ownership of said documents and art, including your attached idea, and if you're thinking of wandering off somewhere else to use it, they can potentially object to any similarities.

You don't own people's idea until it's actually tangible.

And that's what happens during a pitch. Mr. Moneybags doesn't sit down to shoot the shit with you about your ideas, and certainly not at a place like Microsoft. He wants a formed, illustrated concept, which requires work and company time/money. If you want to protect your ideas and aren't willing to share them, work on them at home or keep your mouth shut.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

If you speak your idea out loud, informally, and it goes nowhere, then any company you work for isn't likely to try to claim it as theirs.

If you spend company time using their facilities, writing up design documents and getting your art department to conceptualise your idea for a formal pitch, then your company is within their rights to claim copyright ownership of said documents and art, including your attached idea, and if you're thinking of wandering off somewhere else to use it, they can potentially object to any similarities.



And that's what happens during a pitch. Mr. Moneybags doesn't sit down to shoot the shit with you about your ideas, and certainly not at a place like Microsoft. He wants a formed, illustrated concept, which requires work and company time/money. If you want to protect your ideas and aren't willing to share them, work on them at home or keep your mouth shut.

Thank fuck I don't live in america. You just go out of your way to shit on peoples rights

 

[Neff]

Thank fuck I don't live in america. You just go out of your way to shit on peoples rights

This can happen pretty much anywhere. It's ultimately at the discretion of your company regarding action they might take in this situation, but the law is on their side.

Use their shit, to make your shit, while they're paying you? It's their shit now.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This can happen pretty much anywhere. It's ultimately at the discretion of your company regarding action they might take in this situation, but the law is on their side.

Use their shit, to make your shit, while they're paying you? It's their shit now.

It's not on their side. Your pitch is primaraly compromised of descriptions and concept art. The company only owns the concept art. That's fuck all to take to court over. Unless your main character in the finished product is an exact identicle of the one in the pitch (which doesn't happen), they have fuck all over you.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Can't believe I'm defending Matt Booty here but if these are employees and not contractors then....

that's not the point

 

[poppabk]

Not of course lmao. That's dumb as fuck. You don't own the thought experiments of your employees just because they're done inside the walls.

Err yes they do, at least in America if it's related to your work.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Err yes they do, at least in America if it's related to your work.

Read the thread

 

[Kilau]

Thank fuck I don't live in america. You just go out of your way to shit on peoples rights

Then how do you have so many guns for this war?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Then how do you have so many guns for this war?

They're just nerf guns

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[Neff]

Your pitch is primaraly compromised of descriptions and concept art.

A written description is probably more actionable than art. You can change art, a core concept is more difficult to change if you want to make it your own, and if you don't, they have a written description of it to hold against you.

Like I said, if you want to keep your ideas to yourself, then do just that. It's incredibly naive to expect to cement your ideas via corporate process and still expect to retain ownership. You don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

A written description is probably more actionable than art. You can change art, a core concept is more difficult to change if you want to make it your own, and if you don't, they have a written description of it to hold against you.

Like I said, if you want to keep your ideas to yourself, then do just that. It's incredibly naive to expect to cement your ideas via corporate process and still expect to retain ownership. You don't have a leg to stand on.

No it isn't lmao. A written description is an idea. You can't own that.

 

[Neff]

No it isn't lmao. A written description is an idea. You can't own that.

Don't ever represent me in court.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Don't ever represent me in court.

Can you patent an idea?

Under U.S. law, you cannot patent an idea. Understanding how the law differentiates ideas from inventions is a great way to learn some of the core tenants of patent law.

www.legalzoom.com

Absolute moron

 

[Rockman33]

Am I understanding this right? All pitches they make are owned by Xbox? Regardless of whether they accept them or not?

Yeah… like every other company owned by another company.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Yeah… like every other company owned by another company.

not the point

 

[ChiefDada]

that's not the point

Really? So what's the point? Because it seems like this clip is being used to capitalize on the current outrage focused on Microsoft/Xbox (which, as a certified Sony Pony, im ok with). There are many pitfalls associated with capitalism and what you see in the video is one of them. But NO ONE should come away with the idea that only Microsoft would say/do something like this; any other large company, public or private, would take the same position. Legal would have kicked Booty's booty if he suggested anything other than what he said.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Really? So what's the point? Because it seems like this clip is being used to capitalize on the current outrage focused on Microsoft/Xbox (which, as a certified Sony Pony, im ok with). There are many pitfalls associated with capitalism and what you see in the video is one of them. But NO ONE should come away with the idea that only Microsoft would say/do something like this; any other large company, public or private, would take the same position. Legal would have kicked Booty's booty if he suggested anything other than what he said.

I fully expect Sony to also do this fyi.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Really? So what's the point? Because it seems like this clip is being used to capitalize on the current outrage focused on Microsoft/Xbox (which, as a certified Sony Pony, im ok with). There are many pitfalls associated with capitalism and what you see in the video is one of them. But NO ONE should come away with the idea that only Microsoft would say/do something like this; any other large company, public or private, would take the same position. Legal would have kicked Booty's booty if he suggested anything other than what he said.

The point is the distrust and uneasiness from Tim and double fine's devs to be part of MS's... the change in culture is real.

and you can say "oh that's normal".... no shit Sherlock.

but as you said:

this clip is being used to capitalize on the current outrage focused on Microsoft/Xbox

but also we need to be the aware that the opposite was preached; as how MS was going to offer creative freedom and financial security.

 

[Rockman33]

not the point

What’s the point then?

 

[ByWatterson]

Booty seems more correct here, but it does highlight the duplicity of their message versus their practices.