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Castlevania gate: Insider dev from MercurySteam vents internal problems. [Up: More]

I'm not putting opinions in anyone's mouth. go to Metacritic and look at the alarming number of "this game is perfect fuck the reviewers" user reviews. LoS2 has a higher user rating than LoS1 right now. I have a feeling in six months after the launch hype dies down that the consensus will be that the game was a huge letdown.

People are simply a bit frustrated that the game does have a lot of good things about it, mired by some not so good things, and the majority of the reviews seemingly honed-in and went overboard by the negative aspects which IMO do not overshadow the good things about the game.

There was a great deal of things I loved about this game, but it wasn't as good as the first one; it lacked that feeling of journey and the final boss battle is incredibly abrupt. The modern setting isn't good.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Basically, it's an official interview with some dev from the studio and... he basically confirms like, everything.

Give me a few hours and I will have the news translated.
Too late pal :p I win.

28/02/ UPDATE - Spanish website "Vadejuegos" confirmed with their own sources if the info posted here was true. Their results next:

- Vadejuegos is in position of confirming the story and clarifying some aspects of it.
- Development of Casltevania was very problematic due to leadership and communication problems.
- "Development problems are basically what was posted online".
- "In the end, the lead end up being the person who has been here for the most time or laughs the most at Alvarez' jokes"
- "Being creative there is complicated. People's ideas don't get anywhere. Rafael Jimenez, art director got tired of that and ended up in Tequila. They had him hand tied. He said "Well, here you remain with your brilliant ideas"".
- "Jimenez did the first game's art which was awesome, and (thanks to his departure) this second one is a Frankenstein. There is a power struggle. Some parts are pretty, some aren't".
- "This Castlevania ended up being a little weird due to that. Each department goes with itself and there is no internal communication".
- "They mistreat their people. They.. distrust themselves. It's a very weird ambient, very little creative"
- Relating the stealth sections: "Some of us said, "But what is this? Are we really doing this? Why rats? Really?". Those things were bad and talked between us. This has been like this for 2 years, not before.
- "There weren't any meetings. We found out things llots of times by the press".
- Regarding the first post veracity: "It's not true (that I know of) that Konami is displeased with the game. That can't be known yet".
- "The delay didn't involve out pocket's money (that we know of) it was the normal thing caused by a production of this size.
- Alvarez has been contacted.

Source.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Because he had the series for 12 years and went nowhere. That's pure incompetence. And don't get me started on his swansongs, Judgment and Harmony of Despair. a good director he isn't. We need Hagihara back (SOTN, RoB).
"Went nowhere"? Meh. The GBA and DS games are all pretty good. Sure they're kind of rehashes and recycle lots of assets, but they are still very good games. Better games than LoS, for sure. :p I don't mind taking Castlevania in a new direction but it needs to be done right. LoS was kind of average, way too flawed for me to really consider it good. I haven't played LoS2 but I was excited because it seems it fixed many of the problems from LoS1. Turns out, maybe not...? I'll play it eventually (Steam sale probably) but I doubt it's a better game than, say, Order of Ecclesia.

My only problem with the DS games is that they're... DS games. I just don't like playing on handhelds much. A high-budget 2D Castlevania, Metroid-like but with new assets, for consoles, with Michiru Yamane composing, with HD graphics like Dragon's Crown or the Ubiart games? Oh man, that could be the Best Game Ever.
 

Ahasverus

Member
"Went nowhere"? Meh. The GBA and DS games are all pretty good. Sure they're kind of rehashes and recycle lots of assets, but they are still very good games.
You answered your own question.

It's sad, isn't it? Castlevania deserves better. :|

The worst part is that it was near. LoS1 was amazing. It laid the foundations. But alas, it's not easy to keep going when we're talking about human beings, with virtues and faults.
 
Ya know, I was only half-joking about it seems like a game made by 3-4 different teams who didn't coordinate or communicate, but they might actually be the case. Goes a good way towards explaining how one section of the game can look gorgeous and exciting, and then the next will be all bland environments and under-cooked ideas, jumping around with little rhyme or reason.
 
28/02/ UPDATE - Spanish website "Vadejuegos" confirmed with their own sources if the info posted here was true. Their results next:

WomoxI3.gif
 

sn00zer

Member
- "Being creative there is complicated. People's ideas don't get anywhere. Rafael Jimenez, art director got tired of that and ended up in Tequila. They had him hand tied. He said "Well, here you remain with your brilliant ideas""..[/URL]

As if I needed more reason to be excited about RIME
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Too late pal :p I win.
- "Being creative there is complicated. People's ideas don't get anywhere. Rafael
Source.


This part in particular is pretty sad. The environment design in the first was pretty damn beautiful at times and probably the greatest strength of the game.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Whoosh, dude. I'm saying that a quality game with recycled assets is still preferable than a brand new original* and mediocre game.
* Not that copying other popular franchises would really count as "original" anyway...

I don't agree. I prefer a failed attempt at something new that can evolve into something exciting than a safe rehash. The metroidvanias were the least exciting games ever.
 

Dascu

Member
- "Jimenez did the first game's art which was awesome, and (thanks to his departure) this second one is a Frankenstein. There is a power struggle. Some parts are pretty, some aren't".
- "This Castlevania ended up being a little weird due to that. Each department goes with itself and there is no internal communication".
- Relating the stealth sections: "Some of us said, "But what is this? Are we really doing this? Why rats? Really?". Those things were bad and talked between us.
God dayumn.

What a shame, what wasted potential. I hope they seriously restructure now, perhaps with pressure from Konami, or that the talented folks there depart and start their own studio.
 

injurai

Banned
A high-budget 2D Castlevania, Metroid-like but with new assets, for consoles, with Michiru Yamane composing, with HD graphics like Dragon's Crown or the Ubiart games? Oh man, that could be the Best Game Ever.

I don't want to get off topic, but this is exactly that sort of game I want them to be making. I know you said your not big on handhelds, but the Vita would be perfect.

Ya know, I was only half-joking about it seems like a game made by 3-4 different teams who didn't coordinate or communicate, but they might actually be the case. Goes a good way towards explaining how one section of the game can look gorgeous and exciting, and then the next will be all bland environments and under-cooked ideas, jumping around with little rhyme or reason.

It would explain the scaling issues with the game assets. It's like entire sections of their team were never trained on the engine tech.
 

scitek

Member
Is it wrong that I want to not even bother with this now?

Shit is turning out tainted as fuck :(

How's it tainted? This is basically the story of every development studio not named Valve. Rockstar's had some pretty horrendous stories come out of there, did that stop people from buying GTA5?
 

Ahasverus

Member
How's it tainted? This is basically the story of every development studio not named Valve. Rockstar's had some pretty horrendous stories come out of there, did that stop people from buying GTA5?
Did GTA V development go bad too? I remember hearing that from RDR only.
 

injurai

Banned
How's it tainted? This is basically the story of every development studio not named Valve. Rockstar's had some pretty horrendous stories come out of there, did that stop people from buying GTA5?

Hyperbole much? I could start naming studios that have great environments.

Development challenges, or crunch times are not indicative of a bad environment either.
 

eshwaaz

Member
Ugh. Hearing about all of the troubled development is actually making me feel bad for enjoying the game. Flawed, sure, but I'm finding a lot to like. Having a really good time for the most part.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Ugh. Hearing about all of the troubled development is actually making me feel bad for enjoying the game. Flawed, sure, but I'm finding a lot to like. Having a really good time for the most part.

Yeah. I think that proves that the team is really talented. I loved the game. Well, most parts of it.
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
Roughly translated the whole article by hand in case anyone wants to read it, there were a few tricky lines in the last two paragraphs that I may have butchered sorry for anything confusion created in translation. I'll try to clear up anything if you point it out, check out nepers translation a few posts below, his is better

Yesterday afternoon a forum post was publicized on various spanish gaming websites, the post was of one supposed developer at Mercury Steam, he told of a large series of problems during the development of Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2. I spoke today with sources that have formed part of the development of the game. Vadajueges is in the position to confirm the story and to clear up some details.

We can confirm that the development of Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 was very problematic for leadership problems and communication within the company. "The development problems were basically what was said in the forum post. [In Mercury Steam] talent is bountiful; the problem is that it isn't where it should be, which is in the leads [team leaders]", our source assured us. "There are a few leads that have been here a while...will actually end up doing [the work], but most preoccupy themselves brown nosing Enric [Alvarez, the CEO of Mercury Steam]".

Our sources can confirm that all the decisions during the games development went right through Alvarez. "It is complicated to be creative there, because all the ideas that people have never make it out the door. It is definitely not looked upon favorable to give your own input or ideas." This situation has made a good number of employees at Mercury Steam to leave the company: "there have been some great staff that have left. The art director [Rafael Jimenez], left for Tequila, because of these problems. They had him completely locked down, and he couldn't do anything, to which [Jimenez] said: Then you can stay with your ideas"...

These conflicts happening with key staff members have been, in the opinion of the team at Mercury Steam, the cause of a few of the problems that they game has. "[Jimenez] is the one who did all of the art for the first Lords of Shadow, which was really cool, and this follow up is a Frankenstein because there has not been an art lead at all. One would arrive, then another, then there would be a minor power struggle...some phases were nice, others not at all. This Castlevania has come out a bit weird because of that: each one threw their own 2 cents into it. Each department did its own thing, no one spoke to anyone.

The lack of communications was another of the elements that were the root of many of the problems. "They treat people as...untrustworthy. It is a really weird environment, it isn't conducive to creativity at all. They don't trust in people.", Asking about the example of the phases of infiltration, our source assured us: "we would said: What the hell is this? Are we actually going to release the game with this in this state? All of these bad things pointed at now are things we talked about internally and we would actually say, we are we turning into a rat?" As told to us by our source, this negative environment has been around for at least two years, but they also mention that it wasn't always like this.

The lack of communication that we have commented on is derived from the fact that there were "no meetings" and that things were found out through "the press". That is why, out of everything that has been mentioned since yesterday there are two elements that must be questioned according to our sources: First, the supposed poor reaction from Konami at the root of the game. "That could not be known" they tell us. "I don't know if they're good or bad". Regardless, the rumors reassured that the delays had caused Mercury Stream to pay out of pocket to finish development; our sources assure us that the delays were not significantly larger from those of any other AAA game development, and that nothing similar was ever communicated to the team.

We will continue considering that Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 is a good game, as it can be seen in the critiques that Jose Carlos Castillo brought up in Vadejuegos. In Merucry Steam there is a lot of talent, regardless of the problems, and we expect to see more games in the future of the studio. We have written to Enric Alvarez to see his version of the story, we will post that information if it is necessary.
 
Honestly, I think LoS2 is a pretty good game so far. Not sure how close I am to finishing it though.

But the "Frankenstein" comment hits the nail on the head. There are a lot of ideas here mishmashed together. Some excellent, and some...not so good.

I hope the studio can recover from this and not bleed more talent. I think it's capable of great things.
 

Bedlam

Member
I hope the studio can recover from this and not bleed more talent. I think it's capable of great things.
The people who are responsible for those good parts might be gone already.

See the former lead designer, for example. The castle bits may stem from times when he was still there.
 
Honestly, I think LoS2 is a pretty good game so far. Not sure how close I am to finishing it though.

But the "Frankenstein" comment hits the nail on the head. There are a lot of ideas here mishmashed together. Some excellent, and some...not so good.

I hope the studio can recover from this and not bleed more talent. I think it's capable of great things.

Nice try, Marie.
 

Neper

Neo Member
@Ahasverus I'm still translating the FULL text. Hope you don't mind :)

Yesterday some anonymous user posted in several spanish websites a comment talking about how the Lords of Shadow 2 development in MercurySteam had been full of problems. We've reached internal sources from the studio and we can confirm most of the original story.

As we've been informed by our reliable source, LoS2 development has been a very problematic one due to leadership and communication problems between leads and core team: "The problems we've been through are basically those in the original post. There's plenty of talented devs [in MercurySteam], though they're not among the [studio] heads. There's almost no actual lead in here. The only ones who really have something to say are those who have been here since the early days or those who struggle to please Enric [Álvarez, MercurySteam's CEO]."

Our source has also confirmed us that every single idea or decission during the game's development had to be monitored and accepted by Enric himself: "it isn't easy to be a creative guy in there, because people's ideas are never really free to exist. In fact, they expect you to not give any ideas, they do not like people who do so." This has made many important MS workers leave the company: "some big names here left the studio without second thoughts. Our art director [José Luis Vaello] went to Tequila and now he is making RIME. He left due to the creative situation here. He was being completely held back and couldn't force any changes, so he was just like: 'okay, see ya, good luck with your amazing ideas', and left the team..."

This flaws and conflicts from key members of the studio are, in our source's opinion, the cause of LoS2's most well-known issues: "[Vaello] is the guy who made all the main art for the first LoS, which was pretty awesome [sic], but LoS2 is a Frankenstein monster due to the lack of a consistent art lead. After Vaello left we have had several art directors and there was like some sort of power struggle within the studio heads... that's why some sections of the game are gorgeous and the newer are not. This Castlevania is a weird experience because everybody has been doing their own stuff without a proper lead. Each department has been minding their own bussinesses without any kind of communication between teams." This lack of proper communication has been one of the main issues highlighted by our source: "They deal with people like... they don't trust you. It's a very uncomfortable atmosphere, it's utterly uncreative. They don't trust anybody."

After asking our source about the stealth sections, this is what they told us: "We were like 'what the hell is this? Are we really launching with something like that?' The team was fully aware of all those awful things, and every time we talked to each other someone ended up saying 'but hey, really, why does Dracula have to turn into a rat?' ". According to our source, this toxic atmosphere has lasted for, at least, two years, but they insisted in clarifying that this hasn't always been like that. Apparently, this has been a situation that has been growing slowly inside the studio.

Also, this tremendous lack of communication resulted in "no meetings at all", so the team found out about many of the game's features and official info "through the press". However, there are some things that our source wanted to tell us: first, about Konami being upset about the game's quality, "we can't know that. Not yet. We don't know if our studio's relationship with them is good or bad at this moment." Rumours also claimed that the 6 months delay wasn't a Konami decission and that MercurySteam had to fund that extra development themselves, but our sources think that the delay isn't something unusual in today's AAA game development, and the team is not aware of any kind of "penalty" for the studio.

We've reached Enric Álvarez to give him a chance to elaborate on his side of the story. We'll update the news if we receive further info.
 

Neper

Neo Member
How DARE YOU!

It's cool, thanks

I like how we 3 came up with different translations of the "El que se le ría más a Alvarez". Heh.

That's quite a hard line to translate. English is not my first language, so I did my best >.<
 

Neper

Neo Member
Oh, and VaDeJuegos corrected some info. Former MercurySteam's art lead (now Tequila's) is not Rafael Jiménez, but José Luis Vaello. I've updated my text.
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
I like how we 3 came up with different translations of the "El que se le ría más a Alvarez". Heh.

Lmao I know! It's because that line is tricky as hell! Honestly that whole quote from start to end was difficult to translate because of how it was phrased.

I knew what they were trying to say but I couldn't quite make it work in english.
 

scitek

Member
Did GTA V development go bad too? I remember hearing that from RDR only.

Hyperbole much? I could start naming studios that have great environments.

Development challenges, or crunch times are not indicative of a bad environment either.


Sure, I was exaggerating, but by this point, these stories aren't shocking to me. It's not cool that these guys are so high and mighty and think so little of their teams, but it's not uncommon. Working in the games industry is tough, it's not for everyone. I was looking at some LinkedIn profiles the other day, and came across this one, for example:

(excerpts)

Gearbox Software
Level Designer
Gearbox Software
August 2008 – November 2008 (4 months)

Hired to work on Aliens. Got put on Borderlands. Fixed all of Randy Pitchford's pinball machines for free. Laid off with 25 other people. Not a good experience with Gearbox.

----------------

Level Designer
Gray Matter Studios
May 2002 – February 2004 (1 year 10 months)

Another company that got devoured by a publisher. They cancelled our game when we were a month from alpha and stuck us on "Call of Duty." They're STILL making "Call of Duty" games today, nine years later, just as I predicted.

Electronic Arts
Level Designer
Electronic Arts
May 2000 – May 2002 (2 years 1 month)

I was not suited to climb the corporate ladder. That and working five and a half months without a single day off (no exaggeration) made me quit.

People like Alvarez exist in pretty much any creative medium, and it's unfortunate, but not surprising. I don't get why such a big deal is being made about this one instance, though. Dyack I could understand, because his company made some really highly regarded games, but MercurySteam never made anything comparable.
 

Ahasverus

Member
I feel so uselss right now as a fullblooded puerto rican who sadly doesnt speak any spanish T__T
What? lol It's never too late pal.
Oh, and VaDeJuegos corrected some info. Former MercurySteam's art lead (now Tequila's) is not Rafael Jiménez, but José Luis Vaello. I've updated my text.
Oh, I remember that guy.. he was the coolest of the cool :( GOAT.
People like Alvarez exist in pretty much any creative medium, and it's unfortunate, but not surprising. I don't get why such a big deal is being made about this one instance, though. Dyack I could understand, because his company made some really highly regarded games, but MercurySteam never made anything comparable.
Because we Castlevania fans wanted better? I dunno. I don't think because a game appiles to more people tastes it's more important for those who care than others.
 

injurai

Banned
Sure, I was exaggerating, but by this point, these stories aren't shocking to me. It's not cool that these guys are so high and mighty and think so little of their teams, but it's not uncommon. Working in the games industry is tough, it's not for everyone. I was looking at some LinkedIn profiles the other day, and came across this one, for example:

(excerpts)



People like Alvarez exist in pretty much any creative medium, and it's unfortunate, but not surprising. I don't get why such a big deal is being made about this one instance, though. Dyack I could understand, because his company made some really highly regarded games, but MercurySteam never made anything comparable.

Thanks for getting those excerpts.

I think people are interested specifically because employees are speaking out.
 

Foffy

Banned
Man..I bet it was this shit that cemented MercurySteam only getting LoS2 as their last Castlevania game, and why Konami isn't too happy. Maybe Konami also feels a lot of strange, non-Castlevania stuff was in the game.
 

Arkam

Member
So the company is headed up by a guy who wants everything to run by him for approval and he has an ego and he's not very nice and is a poopyhead.

Reminds me of a few studios I have worked with. It is almost always a major bottleneck and project risk. Especially if they came from a engineering background. They tend to want to personally approve everything and not send items until they are "perfect".... Which is code for delaying progress cuz it's going to have just as many bugs and dependent components.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Man..I bet it was this shit that cemented MercurySteam only getting LoS2 as their last Castlevania game, and why Konami isn't too happy. Maybe Konami also feels a lot of strange, non-Castlevania stuff was in the game.
Konami requested all those "non Castlevania things". Remember that mercurySteam were chosen by pitching a remake of Castlevania 1, and that Konami explicitly told Araujo to get away from the old Castlevania music because it was too "feminine".

Yeah.
 

scitek

Member
Because we Castlevania fans wanted better? I dunno. I don't think because a game appiles to more people tastes it's more important for those who care than others.

You're right, a game's quality shouldn't have any bearing on how much attention should be paid to shitty working conditions. That was wrong of me to imply. I guess I was just trying to figure out why this one instance is getting so much attention now, but

I think people are interested specifically because employees are speaking out.

Yeah, this makes sense. It's sad that things couldn't have worked better for everyone involved. I'm sure Alvarez was crushed when he saw the review scores despite how he may act on Twitter. It's never fun to see people trash your work. It'd be nice if MS could have a Starbreeze-like turnaround from this, but it's not likely given that Alvarez pretty much IS MercurySteam. Reading all this reminds me of the Yerlis at Crytek. They're brilliant, but get in their own way way too much.
 
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