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Could Bruce Lee be competitive in today's MMA?
- Thread starter entremet
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ahahahaha
entremet
Member
It seems Bruce was more a calisthenics devotee. Calisthenics aren't best at helping you develop explosive force.
Very good point. You know, they say it only takes 8 pounds of pressure to break a jaw. Attack a pressure point? Even less. I'm sure Bruce knew that he had plenty of strength to utilize the power of Jeet Kune Do. Technique above all.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Newsguy delivering news for 2014 in 2011
I have like 3x the lower body strength, better upper body strength, better cardiovascular development, 8 inches and 30-60 lbs in mass, and a BJJ blue belt, wrestling and Muay Thai training. Don't ask whether he would be competitive in pro MMA today, ask how many thousands of video game nerds would hand him his ass in about 30 seconds, that's the more telling proposal.
Cult of personality for a really ripped movie actor who had a forward-thinking martial arts philosophy and an untimely death. Gonna have to deal.
Cult of personality for a really ripped movie actor who had a forward-thinking martial arts philosophy and an untimely death. Gonna have to deal.
entremet
Member
Yeah, I took a quick look at that thread and it's pretty fucking ridiculous. This one isn't as bad. Changing attitudes over time, I hope? Looking forward to a future where people no longer believe he was incredible, had lightning speed and could beat up everyone with ease.
Those stats are good to know. Not proof he couldn't throw a punch or kick, but drives the point home that he was just some regular fit joe who really liked his martial arts.
BadAss2961
Member
Just think about how many guys there are who could out-lift and outrun Jon Jones (bigger and smaller guys) that would all get wrecked by him in a fight.
He looked like such a scrub on the basketball court. lol (not making this part of my point)
Lamel
Banned
We all know that running speed and strength aren't the only things that matter, but they do make a difference for fighters. Those measures significantly manifest themselves in the superior fighting technique/ability of Jon Jones.
Yeah I wasn't aware the he had been debunked as a human being. If bruce lee has never trained or done any sort of discipline, he is just a normal person. And he'd have those Odd's.
It is pretty amazing how far we have come in 125 years in conditioning the human body. Just google the bench press records for a flavor of what I mean. Other stats show similar improvement.
Putting aside the fact that there is no proven evidence he was good against elite opponents, if the generic question is "would an athlete in the 60s be able to compete with an athlete in 2014", the answer is almost always going to be no across any sport.
Putting aside the fact that there is no proven evidence he was good against elite opponents, if the generic question is "would an athlete in the 60s be able to compete with an athlete in 2014", the answer is almost always going to be no across any sport.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Generations at this point. I you could probably make a "Chuck Norris Facts" like list and a good portion of Bruce Lee marks would probably believe it.
EviLore pre or post-tonsils though?? That is the deciding factor.
entremet
Member
Access to better drugs have also helped.
I don't know enough about this topic. From the posts I read the MMA fighters hate Bruce Lee and his fans love him. I think its somewhere in the middle. I think Bruce Lee would have to training for MMA with today's training techniques. For his time he was probably pretty good but in today's style of fighting and training he be an average fighter. However, to compare stats like Evilore is unfair because of the difference of training methods in the past 40 years.
Bruce Lee's real accomplishments are changing the way Asians performed live film.
Bruce Lee's real accomplishments are changing the way Asians performed live film.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
yeah.. because he was a trained actor first and foremost
Yeah, I'd put money on Bruce Lee. This thread is fucking unreal.
I think his skill is unquestioned. The biggest unknown for me that you can't really train for is how well he takes hits. Some people can just take a hit to the jaw unnaturally well, and there's just really no training for that.
If Bruce wasn't in actual MMA competitions, he'd be sought out by almost everyone for training. I think that's probably the more likely scenario, because you really don't get compensated well for the hell you put yourself through in professional fights. And he's a skilled actor, actually handsome, charismatic, and had aspirations for film directing. And his style all along was always focused on street fighting. Speed is rewarded more when you can hit vital areas, which is what he trained specifically to do.
I'm not seeing a cult of personality here. I'm seeing a freakish mutation in the opposite direction. People seem to be getting off on trashing someone that's unbelievably skilled just because it seems like the cool thing to do now.
The guy is a martial arts master, and a master of physical conditioning. I definitely don't say that about most of the guys in MMA.
Yeah, I saw the documentary Enter the Dragon when I was 8 years old too.
I'm not talking about his films. He was making films where they told him to slow down constantly, because the audience couldn't watch it and keep up. Look at a John Wayne fight scene with two guys just throwing sluggish punches, because that is the norm when he was starting to make films.
So in other words, you have nothing to back up your outlandish claims about Bruce Lee's amazing skills?
Okay.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I was actually going to edit this into my post before changing my mind. Being told to "slow down" because an audience (or camera as per Dragon) can't keep up is not that impressive of a feat when kids or untrained adults can do it.
Bruce Lee List of Facts...
Fedor Emelianenko and Floyd Mayweather both prefer (well, one doesn't compete anymore) bodyweight training over lifting, unlike other sports like american football where you have to lift it's mostly a matter of preference.
entremet
Member
I think you've proved my point. Floyd was never the most powerful puncher at all. Not familiar with the former name.
For some reason everyone seems to discount every single bit of history regarding his life, and testimony about his skills from martial artists for decades because it's not a youtube video. But Gene LeBell says something and it's suddenly the truth, and the truth always seems to be about how great Gene LeBell is.
Still though, I said which side I would put money on, and I'm very confident how that bet would turn out.
TheKaeptain
Banned
My dad's cousins blind friend heard from a dude that Bruce once kicked a cat. So he is 100% legit and could have beaten anyone.
Brianimaniac
Banned
The more important thing is that modern MMA is incredibly fucking boring. It was really cool in the early days of UFC, when it was dramatically different styles facing off, but now it's all the same homogenized bullshit.
Basically, it was a whole lot better when it was about asking the question of which style was superior and not about a bunch of people fighting it out after everyone learned the answer.
Basically, it was a whole lot better when it was about asking the question of which style was superior and not about a bunch of people fighting it out after everyone learned the answer.
Neffarias_Bredd
Member
Bruce Lee's philosophy towards training and fighting is what connects him to mma. There is no question whether or not he would be destroyed by fighters today
I really didn't, i'm just saying that for fighting it's not clear-cut whether bodyweight training or lifting is better, they both have advantages and it would be silly to say that an unbeaten boxer and an almost unbeaten MMA fighter would have done better if they focused on lifting.
Obviously they both did some lifting because there's literally no reason to go 100% on one over the other.
Also i don't trust the stats evilore posted at all, i was squatting 60kgs*5 on my third workout and i'm a scrawny-ass dude.
It goes past just being boring. Half of the guys in MMA only learn the bare minimum now because it's been distilled down into the smallest list of possible skills needed to succeed. Grappling, minimal boxing, knees to the body, and a low roundhouse kick. That's it.
When you compare that to someone who masters entire martial arts and then through practice and sparring shaves them down himself to find out what works, it's an entirely different prospect. A lot of people assume that martial arts techniques have no real life application because no one in MMA ever mastered them to be begin with.
I think this is debateable to an extent. Some of the greatest most explosive punchers in boxing like Ray Robinson and Louis stuck mostly to calisthenics, boxing specific strength training (ie heavybag) and strong man work.
Actually your average NFL player can wreck most martial artists including MMA guys (maybe not pros). They're explosive, know how to tackle/check/hit with their bodies, are fucking huge, and have fast feet.
entremet
Member
This happens with every nascent sport, though. Coaches and participants break it down systemically and focus on improving specific disciplines, which is why modern MMA has the base of kickboxing, boxing, BJJ and wrestling.
In 10 years the sport will have some more scary contenders, with kids already learning BJJ, Wrestling along with striking disciplines at an early age.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Dana White telling it like it is in I am Bruce Lee documentary Mixed Martial Arts segment.
I am Bruce Lee Documentary=36m8s
Dana's segment lasts a couple minutes but it's edited in with others
I am Bruce Lee Documentary=36m8s
Dana's segment lasts a couple minutes but it's edited in with others
TheKaeptain
Banned
Dana White tried to sell Dan Hardy as a legit threat for GSP.
Go train and then realize how flagrantly ignorant this post is. Jesus Christ.
The grappling really is the difference. The BJJ guys have changed the game and without any defense training against it, you're screwed. I can understand why a lot of people don't like UFC because of it. Is it really "fighting"? Some of these guys couldn't punch their way out of a paper bag but they're sure good at getting themselves into a position where they can torture a joint or trap you in a choke hold.
Kick boxing seems a lot more like fighting than UFC wrestling. I'd give Lee a lot more credit in a kick boxing match than UFC just because of the BJJ training.
Kick boxing seems a lot more like fighting than UFC wrestling. I'd give Lee a lot more credit in a kick boxing match than UFC just because of the BJJ training.
Forget LeBell. You still haven't provided any evidence for your ridiculous claims other than alluding to vague hearsay about how awesome a friend of a friend said he was that one time a random stranger stepped up to him. Bruce's inspirational musings are also not proof of anything.
Fighting sports and martial arts are bigger than ever. Millions more are participating than back in Bruce's time. Why hasn't there been another person who is as seemingly amazing and invincible? To answer my own question: it's because we have mountains of documented proof for every fighter that comes and goes; we can see the shortcomings and eventual decline of even the absolute best fighters in the world, whether it's boxing, wrestling, judo, UFC, Pride, etc.
"Bruce Lee the Legend" is basically a fabrication and exaggeration of a shady time when people could make grander-than-life claims and there would be no way to find out the truth. He's a modern tall tale. I have no doubt in my mind that if he were alive today, he would be quickly exposed as average. At best an ordinary "good fighter" with some talent and admirable qualities, but nothing that would cause legions of blind fans across decades to worship him like he's an indestructible force unmatched by any person past, present or future.
This isn't worth a response beyond "bullshit." You couldn't walk into a serious MMA gym and say some shit like that with a straight face and mean it if you met some of the guys training there. In my brief time doing MMA in NY, I met a lot of guys who had been practicing multiple arts for YEARS.
The boring part is also a bunch of crap. You do have lame LnP, points fighters and Dana spreading talent thin and putting on way more cards in a year than there should be, but a blanket statement like that is simply not true.
cluxdeluxe
Banned
Floyd's hands would shatter if he threw full power. His hands are usually destroyed after each fight.
Yeah, video game nerds are going to beat Bruce Lee in a fight. I'm the ignorant one though.
How many of the guys in the gym that you worked with trained in Wing Chun with Yip Man? Trained with all the top martial artists of their day nonstop as their career; achieving international recognition because of it? The whole world was wrong about him for decades, but you got it right. Does that sound very plausible?
Let me say this as someone who practices 'traditional martial arts', you sound ridiculous.
1) Why is distilling something down to a few 'moves' or skills bad? In fact, quite a bit of TMA follow this philosophy.
2) You say these things "Grappling, minimal boxing, knees to the body, and a low roundhouse kick" like any of them are easy to get good at. So even knowing how to do a couple of these effectively let alone be an expert at them is a ton of man hours.
3) All of it should work. You don't 'find out' what works. Your teacher teaches you things that work or you stop paying him.
The most I'll give you is that there are some things outside of the common MMA ruleset and training that I find to be useful, but that's it.
Lambda Pie
Banned
are you willing to do battle with Rickson to see who gets the first L in their careers?
That's basically the whole point. Watch Joe Rogan talk about the spin-side kick. No one uses it because no one in MMA has even mastered it, but it doesn't mean it's not a viable technique in the hands of a master. The same goes for a whole lot in martial arts. These are things that wouldn't work for a lot of people ... but in the hands of Bruce Lee?
Lambda Pie
Banned
is this like learning the Shoryuken from Sheng Long?
Yeah, you found me out. No one ever fought before 1993. It was all pretend.
People have been saying lee was overrated since Enter The Dragon. It isn't some new thing. It's like saying Kareem would get schooled by Lebron. At his time he dominated but people have studied what he did and took it to another level he couldn't even comprehend.
I don't know how strong you aare (and frankly i don't care) but it's safe to assume that he had a much stronger core than you (unless you're telling me you can pull off v-sits like it's nothing) and a much stronger grip.
But are you saying that thousands of video game nerds would school Kareem in 30 seconds?
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