FeiRR
Banned
I've always bought Sony TVs for their image quality and reliability but most people don't accept their higher price and lack of support for MKV and similar formats.
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SONY: Warning Loss 18% Larger Than Forecast on Charges
- Thread starter guit3457
- Start date
I get the feeling the TV is the "traditional" thing that Sony Japan feels that they must still do. Much how Nintendo started as a Playing Card company and still make playing cards today.
Pestilence11
Member
I was wondering if their TVs were still priced 25 - 50% higher than the competition. I never understood why when the majority of the buying public are quite content with Samsung and LG because they're good enough and reasonably priced.
Nightengale
Member
Sony (Music) makes anime, so I guess they could come up with a merchandising monster like...
PRECURE
Aquamarine
Member
Sony has an entire studio subsidiary dedicated to animation production.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Animation
Movies:
Open Season
Surf's Up
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs
The Smurfs
Arthur Christmas (with Aardman Animations)
The Pirates! Band of Misfits (with Aardman Animations)
Hotel Transylvania
The Smurfs 2
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs 2
UltraGunner
Banned
They could possibly enter into the Pachinko business. Sammy (Sega's parent company) rakes in billions in yen every year due to their pachinko machines.
I think it's purely the price. Their TV's are a premium over the same equivalent of other manufacturers. Your average husband & wife or family aren't gonna compare the raw specs of a 42" Television when there's a £200 price difference.
freakzilla149
Banned
Yeah, I think as everyone has already said, it's about time Sony took an axe to all the unprofitable divisions. At this rate even PlayStation could be in danger in a year or two.
Aquamarine
Member
Yeah, really don't know what Kaz is thinking at this point, trying to salvage TVs.
Their TV business has racked up $6.7 billion in cumulative losses since 2004.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Or sell insurance and invest money into CE. You know, their core business.
I agree, but its the Playstation name that sells the console, not Sony. That's my point, general consumers just know it as a Playstation, it'd do no harm detaching the Playstation name from the Sony brand if it had to.
Your typical family does not care. They'll take the £200 saving, as we have clearly seen them doing and why Sony's TV business is losing to Samsung & LG.
There are still so many households that have an HDTV but still don't watch any HD content on the TV.
The only series they have that would actually sell toys is Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs and those toys will only sell when the movie is in theaters if they are even popular at all.
Sony (Music) makes anime, so I guess they could come up with a merchandising monster like...PRECURE
They own Aniplex but they don't make original anime so I don't know if they would be able to do something like that.
shinra-bansho
Member
People harping on about quality should realise the market doesn't give a crap.
Reuters had it at $7.8B. On the plus side the new CFO and CSO Yoshida managed to convince Hirai to sell off the PC unit, so I think TV is really on its last chance.
Pure BS, this may have been true 10 years ago but LG has stepped up their quality considerably. Their products are cheaper and last as long if not longer than their Sony equivalents.
I don't own any Samsung products so I cant comment on them. Paying the Sony premium in this day and age is foolish. The problem is compounded even more here in the UK where they are not price competitive at all.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
As others have already mentioned, Playstation is larger than the PS4. I imagine most of the profit came from the PS3.
geordiemp
Member
The problem with their TV business is being like Sony of old..
They bring out the excellent w905 which is arguably the best gaming TV on the market and then stop production and people are struggling to find them.
In 2014 they bring out a new 9 series with a worse panel that's not as good as the 2013 model.
The 8 series in 2013 was poor, and 2014 they put a decent panel in and its good 829B but lacks all the goodies of the w905.
So in 2014 the 9 series was best regarded, in 2014 its the 8 series but not matching 2013's effort...
God knows who is running the TV business, but they need to listen
bigboss370
Member
yeah, reliability most of all imo.
something it seems consumers care less about these days because they've been conditioned to buy new every so often.
Captain Tuttle
Member
I don't know man, people have been saying this for years. I thought Kaz would have done a better job than he has
Isn't that what Apple fans say about everyone else?
I thought the problem with the TV prices was with the exchange rate. The strong Yen is forcing them to charge more for less profit.
I have seen a huge decrease in price on Sony TV over the past few years.
Also didn't Sony say they are spinning off the Tv division and will no longer appear on the balance sheet from next year.
I have seen a huge decrease in price on Sony TV over the past few years.
Also didn't Sony say they are spinning off the Tv division and will no longer appear on the balance sheet from next year.
MrCunningham
Member
It's a good sign for their game division, as it means it will be one of the divisions they will decide to axe last if they have to start liquidating things. Honestly Sony is hurting badly as a company, the Playstation division will not bail them out, but at least they aren't hemorrhaging money from from it like they were from the PS3 era. Sony still needs some serious restructuring.
geordiemp
Member
Your paying for good electronics under the hood, most Sony TV's have 6-8 ms input lag, far better than the competition for a gaming TV. yet who knows ?
They should put a PlayStation brand on some TV's and call them gaming TV. Does everything and superior gaming...
Vlodril
Member
Why would they sell one of their profitable divisions?
Nightengale
Member
Aniplex owns A-1 Pictures, which from my memory, has produced some their own original stuff like Sora no Woto and AnoHana. I think they own Xam'd as well, if I'm not wrong.
Their focus have definitely been licensing non-original works for adaption, but they do have original content every now and then.
I really don't see why Sony thought that was a good idea when they already had a TV division making better TVs.
OldKingDoran
Banned
Wonder why they still bother with TV and PC.
Nightengale
Member
True, but PS3 was a money-sink large enough to offset any profits that PS2 brought to them for quite a few years.
It's good that it's no longer happening for the PS4.
It seems like a VEEEEERY BIG DEAL for Sony to use the Playstation branding on their other products.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Yep. Definitely good news for the PS division. Cerny helped design the right console for the company.
Holy shit at making only a third of the projected income. That's crazy.
Aquamarine
Member
In July 2014, the TV division will become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony. Not sure if it will be incorporated in future balance sheets or not.
But one Sony official said the following:
"I suspect Sony will withdraw from a number of products and narrow its focus on such competitive sectors as gaming, film, music and financial services."
So the wheels of change are turning within the company. We just need Kaz to catch on and make the appropriate adjustments.
good to know the actual parent company isnt going anywhere....
Edited for accuracy
aspiegamer
Member
Eeh? Sony's brand image is a thousand times better than its financial situation, and that includes a positive view of the PS division. They took a massive leap over their home gaming competition last year where a competitive price finally matched their perceived image as a high-quality brand. It might not add up to a huge percentage of revenues but that's the sort of stuff investors love to hear.
The PS division as a segment for Sony is way more important than the Xbox division to Microsoft so they need to play it up as much as possible.
Interesting. In the middle of trying to leap over the DVD format they 'they missed a bigger shot at the now-mainstream streaming format. I hadn't though of it this way previously.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Looks like bluray is part responsible for what's happening. Certainly complicates things from the consumer end on what Sony needs to do.
MrCunningham
Member
I think they need to cut down how many models they release a year and simplify/ consolidate their branding to prevent customer confusion. But subsidizing their TV division is a good idea.
Yes, mobile is doing well. They need a quadfecta (not a word, but whatever) of streamlined services: gaming, pictures, mobile, insurance (which is making a killing).
I can't complain though, I bought shares at $11 something and sold them at $20. And PS division is kicking arse, so my needs as an investor and consumer have been served. I have a 4K Bravia too, and its brilliant, but I can see how that division is nothing but a money pit.
That was my suggestion exactly (not literally - but spooky that you posted that as I was writing my comment).
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Whatever happens to SONY, the video gaming division will survive.
wont happen. sony will sell off the playstation brand to another Japanese company.... like Nintendo.
Sony's TV prices are in line (sometimes cheaper) with Samsung, LG, etc. for equivalent performance models. The real problem is that there is just a glut of TVs on the market since China & Korea are just pumping out LCD panels. The reason Samsung & LG are still researching OLED is so they get higher margins vs the almost break even margins they have now on the models that sell.
Forsete
Gold Member
Sony wont sell anything that is making money.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Nothing at Sony will change until they remove Kaz as CEO. He has failed to reform the major money sink which is TVs and is selling the PC division two years too late, losing value in the process as well as wasting money that would have been better spent promoting their mobile offering.
On the plus side it reads like Sony are just bringing forwards the 30bn yen worth of extra losses from their PC sale that would have been counted for the next financial year into the current financial year so they can take advantage of certain tax gains by closing the sale early. That means they expect some kind of profit next year.
The bigger issue for them is the failure of Blu-ray to really take off. While today's write off is a bad one, it also, finally, closes the door on Sony ever recouping any of the money they lost selling the PS3 at below cost for 18 months because of Blu-ray. The initial estimates had the cost of a Blu-ray drive at $240 vs a DVD drive at $19. It wasn't until mid-2008 that the cost of the drive had fallen to manageable levels (around $40) and it took until 2009 to see the cost fall to DVD levels. That money is not going to be made back in disc manufacturing and royalties as Sony management said back in 2006. The market for physical media has waned, and in no small part from their own efforts. Looking at their 4K ecosystem, not a single mention of Blu-ray 4K was made at CES, the PS4 does not have HDMI 2.0 or a 4K compatible Blu-ray drive. The mentions of 4K content was all about streaming, either Netflix 4K, or their own media server with their own rental/streaming service. It took Samsung to even bring up Blu-ray 4K at CES.
Sony should be:
Smartphones/tablets
PlayStation/SEN
Home theatre excl. TVs
Cameras
Semi-conductors
Movies/music
Financial services
Real estate brokerage
They need to cut out their TV division and invest the money saved into semi-conductors and expanding their smartphone presence in the US. Sony should be a content company with a delivery business to all devices, while giving their own devices direct access.
The worst part for Sony is that their TVs are no longer particularly expensive, at least the same as Samsung, but the perception after so many years is of higher expense that a lot of people don't even consider them. That is never going to change, not without significant expense in marketing which would be better used for smartphones, PlayStation and cameras.
The basic issue is that Kaz is a weak leader. He did not make the tough decisions in 2012 when he was appointed CEO, and now it is too late in the day to really benefit from shuttering the TV division in terms of shareholder value. The money that Sony have invested and lost in TVs would have been better spent on their other divisions, hell, even buying back shares in the financial services company would have been a better use of the money. Kaz is the problem at Sony and they need to bring in an outsider, recruit an expert bean counter from Nomura as the next CEO to tear down the walls and get rid of the loss making divisions.
On the plus side it reads like Sony are just bringing forwards the 30bn yen worth of extra losses from their PC sale that would have been counted for the next financial year into the current financial year so they can take advantage of certain tax gains by closing the sale early. That means they expect some kind of profit next year.
The bigger issue for them is the failure of Blu-ray to really take off. While today's write off is a bad one, it also, finally, closes the door on Sony ever recouping any of the money they lost selling the PS3 at below cost for 18 months because of Blu-ray. The initial estimates had the cost of a Blu-ray drive at $240 vs a DVD drive at $19. It wasn't until mid-2008 that the cost of the drive had fallen to manageable levels (around $40) and it took until 2009 to see the cost fall to DVD levels. That money is not going to be made back in disc manufacturing and royalties as Sony management said back in 2006. The market for physical media has waned, and in no small part from their own efforts. Looking at their 4K ecosystem, not a single mention of Blu-ray 4K was made at CES, the PS4 does not have HDMI 2.0 or a 4K compatible Blu-ray drive. The mentions of 4K content was all about streaming, either Netflix 4K, or their own media server with their own rental/streaming service. It took Samsung to even bring up Blu-ray 4K at CES.
Sony should be:
Smartphones/tablets
PlayStation/SEN
Home theatre excl. TVs
Cameras
Semi-conductors
Movies/music
Financial services
Real estate brokerage
They need to cut out their TV division and invest the money saved into semi-conductors and expanding their smartphone presence in the US. Sony should be a content company with a delivery business to all devices, while giving their own devices direct access.
The worst part for Sony is that their TVs are no longer particularly expensive, at least the same as Samsung, but the perception after so many years is of higher expense that a lot of people don't even consider them. That is never going to change, not without significant expense in marketing which would be better used for smartphones, PlayStation and cameras.
The basic issue is that Kaz is a weak leader. He did not make the tough decisions in 2012 when he was appointed CEO, and now it is too late in the day to really benefit from shuttering the TV division in terms of shareholder value. The money that Sony have invested and lost in TVs would have been better spent on their other divisions, hell, even buying back shares in the financial services company would have been a better use of the money. Kaz is the problem at Sony and they need to bring in an outsider, recruit an expert bean counter from Nomura as the next CEO to tear down the walls and get rid of the loss making divisions.
Wyndstryker
Member
KojiKnight
Member
Yeah, much more likely that Facebook will buy them out to supplement their OR tech.
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