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Console OS footprints

J

jarrod

Banned
I can find figures for a few consoles, but not others? Anyone have the missing machines?

PlayStation 3
-47MB RAM

Xbox 360
-24MB RAM

PSP
-4MB RAM

Wii
-12MB RAM (from MEM2)

Xbox
-512KB RAM

PS2
-1MB RAM

GC/DC
-less than 512KB?

DS/SS/PS/3DO/MCD/TCD/64DD/JagCD
-????


.... I'm also guessing platforms like DC, PS2, GC or DS don't keep their frontend in memory when launching game software... did any other dedicated consoles or handhelds?
 
F

FirewalkR

Member
The PS3 numbers are quite probably outdated. I remember it was already less in the latest firmwares, from what I read @ B3D.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
FirewalkR said:
The PS3 numbers are quite probably outdated. I remember it was already less in the latest firmwares, from what I read @ B3D.
Click to expand...

Correct it's it's somewhere in between 32MB and 64MB now from what I remember.
 
J

jarrod

Banned
FirewalkR said:
The PS3 numbers are quite probably outdated. I remember it was already less in the latest firmwares, from what I read @ B3D.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the PS3 figures are from almost a year back (mid 2007) and they were already reduced down from the original reservations (which was 56MB main RAM). Have anything more current?

Also, does PSP slim reserve more memory for it's OS functions, given it went from 32MB to 64MB system RAM? I know 8MB was for the original model, but I'm curious what the memory boost in Slim was used for?
 
A

Ariexv

Member
Seeing how little ram consoles use for their OS, makes me wish the next version of Windows would come with a "Game mode" that shuts off everything but games and only uses like 50mb of ram.
 
M

M3d10n

Member
jarrod said:
Also, does PSP slim reserve more memory for it's OS functions, given it went from 32MB to 64MB system RAM? I know 8MB was for the original model, but I'm curious what the memory boost in Slim was used for?
Click to expand...
It's mostly for UMD precaching, which helps a lot with the load times. It also makes it possible to have more in-game features.
 
R

Rainy Dog

Member
I know its a bit extreme, but I wonder if any PS3 games were delayed specifically because of the initial footprint size? I'm thinking perhaps MGS4...
 
J

jestro

Banned
Ariexv said:
Seeing how little ram consoles use for their OS, makes me wish the next version of Windows would come with a "Game mode" that shuts off everything but games and only uses like 50mb of ram.
Click to expand...

YES!
 
B

BeeDog

Member
jett said:
Why is the PS3's footpring so effing big? ...and it doesn't even support custom soundtracks.
Click to expand...

Because Sony obviously don't have the same programming gods as Microsoft does.
 
I

imek

Member
Ariexv said:
Seeing how little ram consoles use for their OS, makes me wish the next version of Windows would come with a "Game mode" that shuts off everything but games and only uses like 50mb of ram.
Click to expand...

Given that PCs aren't really starved for RAM when it comes to games (there's negligible performance differences between 2GB and 4GB RAM in a system), I don't think it's really that necessary (in this instance).
 
H

herod

Member
jett said:
Why is the PS3's footpring so effing big? ...and it doesn't even support custom soundtracks.
Click to expand...

the last I heard, it does, but at the developer's discretion, and costs 4MB.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
imek said:
Given that PCs aren't really starved for RAM when it comes to games (there's negligible performance differences between 2GB and 4GB RAM in a system), I don't think it's really that necessary (in this instance).
Click to expand...

I'm with the person that made the original point. I'm not worried about ram usage as much as services. One reason I loved 2k/xp much more than previous windows is you could go in to service thing and disable all the junk that impacts gaming performance. i don't get why MS doesn't make a game mode for the os you can switch as it would make a lot more games play smoother.
 
J

jarrod

Banned
MrTroubleMaker said:
I hope you can get the footprints for the other consoles it would be cool to see the differences :)
Click to expand...
Me too... someone out there must know what Wii and Xbox reserve?
 
A

Ariexv

Member
imek said:
Given that PCs aren't really starved for RAM when it comes to games (there's negligible performance differences between 2GB and 4GB RAM in a system), I don't think it's really that necessary (in this instance).
Click to expand...
Every bit helps :p not to mention in a "gamer mode" their should be more CPU/GPU power to go towards the game as well.
 
BruceWayneIII

BruceWayneIII

Member
jett said:
Why is the PS3's footpring so effing big? ...and it doesn't even support custom soundtracks.
Click to expand...
My personal guess is that SONY wanted to reserve space for future elements in their roadmap. Once they cut it down to e.g. 32 MB they can't just increase the footprint again, if that becomes necessary, with causing a lot of trouble with games accounting for 32 MB.
 
J

Jeseus

Member
jarrod said:
I can find figures for a few consoles, but not others? Anyone have the missing machines?

PlayStation 3
-48MB RAM
-24MB VRAM
-72MB total

Xbox 360
-32MB RAM

PSP
-8MB RAM

Wii
-???

Xbox
-???


.... I'm also guessing platforms like DC, PS2, GC or DS don't keep their frontend in memory when launching game software... did any other dedicated consoles or handhelds?
Click to expand...


http://www.criteriongames.com/article.php?artID=70


"With the latest SDK Sony freed up some memory. We've upgraded to this SDK and made use of the extra memory to scale the 720p game to 960x1080 as part of the very final post-process render stage in the game; this 960x1080 video mode uses the PS3 hardware scaler to upscale the image horizontally to output at 1920x1080.

"This scaling process in Burnout costs a very small amount of frame time (under 0.4% of a 60hz frame, which we can afford without dropping frames) since we're going to a larger number of pixels, but it enables those with 1080i TVs that don't support 720p to play in HD.
Click to expand...


Its smaller
 
D

DefectiveReject

Banned
The Wii would have one, if it actually had any memory at all!

Anyone having probs with their Wii's taking AGES to get from the menu, stuck n the black screen, before finally loading the picture saying hold on tightly to your Wii remote??
 
oldergamer

oldergamer

Member
Yes the PS3 OS is much smaller then where it started, but there other factors to consider where comparing it to other consoles. From what I understand, you need to reserve chunks of memory for features like "friends list" "voice in games" etc. each extra function you want to include in a ps3 title will eat up more memory ( outside of the amount the OS has already reserved).

This is unlike the 360, that includes all of it's xbox live functionality within the 32MB reserved by the OS. I even recall hearing that MS wasn't using all 32 MB and some of it was reserved for future planning.
 
B

bj00rn

Banned
Ariexv said:
Seeing how little ram consoles use for their OS, makes me wish the next version of Windows would come with a "Game mode" that shuts off everything but games and only uses like 50mb of ram.
Click to expand...

There are already software tools doing similar things available for you on the net if you want to check it out. But the thing is, for most people with a decent PC with 1-2 GB RAM or more it's a waste of time since it doesn't make much difference anyway.

But of course, if you run processes that are hogging a lot of cpu power then you'll notice some difference, but RAM, not really.
 
bumpkin

bumpkin

Member
DefectiveReject said:
The Wii would have one, if it actually had any memory at all!

Anyone having probs with their Wii's taking AGES to get from the menu, stuck n the black screen, before finally loading the picture saying hold on tightly to your Wii remote??
Click to expand...
I have that happen every once in a while, but usually only when I first boot it up. I'm guessing it's WiiConnect 24 doing something in the background that I didn't give the machine time to do before entering a channel.
 
F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
jarrod said:
Anyone have the missing machines?
Click to expand...
Ok last gen blanks I remember:

PS2 : 1MB (only 512KB was actually used afaik, but reserved space was 1MB).
XBox : 512KB for Kernel, possibly more for other reserved stuff, but I don't know how much off the top of my head.
GC/DC - something similar (small kernel reserved space), but the exact number escapes me.

PSP : your number is too high.

Wii : It's more then what you have for PSP, but less then DC's main-memory.


oldergamer said:
From what I understand,
Click to expand...
The memory footprint is not the only thing that's evolving though.
 
J

jarrod

Banned
Fafalada said:
PSP : your number is too high.
Click to expand...
So was it reduced too then? Becuase I remember a big stink coming out in mid 2005 when the 8MB figure was leaked.


And Wii's between 8-16MB?
 
U

User2k

Member
Ariexv said:
Seeing how little ram consoles use for their OS, makes me wish the next version of Windows would come with a "Game mode" that shuts off everything but games and only uses like 50mb of ram.
Click to expand...

One day, I hope. The possibilities that could come out of this are endless. Imagine 2GB+ devoted to the game alone. Awesomeness.
 
J

jarrod

Banned
Updated the OP with faf's info. Any idea on DS? What about older formats (PS1, SS, N64/64DD, etc)?

Actually, did the 16bitters reserve any space (would they need to)? GBA? The 16bit CD-ROM formats (PCE, MD)?
 
D

Durante

Member
User2k said:
One day, I hope. The possibilities that could come out of this are endless. Imagine 2GB+ devoted to the game alone. Awesomeness.
Click to expand...
On a PC it doesn't really matter much anymore. I have 4 GB of RAM in my system and it was cheap.

I wonder what the PS3 OS footprint will be by the end of this generation.
 
B

Brimstone

my reputation is Shadowruined
The way I understand it, the PS3 had an OS being developed at the start of the console development cycle, but Sony had to abandon it. So they turned to the PSP OS team to create the PS3 OS. This was done rather late in the development cycle, so it ended up being bloated and rough around the edges.
 
R

RubberJohnny

Banned
The last reliable figures we had for PS3 were from Firmware 1.60, they may have improved since then, but there's still a lot of optimisation to go.

Currently, as of SDK 1.60, the PS3 operating system takes up 52 MB of main memory (a reduction of 12 MB since launch) and 32 MB of graphics memory (84 MB total). As a comparison, the Xbox 360 still only uses 32 MB of shared memory for all its system utilities.

As of SDK 1.60, developers can use standard PS3 message dialogs at no extra cost. The standard on-screen keyboard still requires 7MB of memory.

Developers can now choose to support the Remote Play functionality (which allows players to play their PS3 titles on their local wireless LAN using their PSP. Remote Play requires 8MB of memory to be allocated to it.

The various utilities providing saving, loading, and reading off the hard disk now require no more than 5MB of memory to be used.

8MB of memory is required for the online startup utility. This includes both supporting online play, and is a requirement for any of the other Network Platform (NP) utilities. There are several NP utilities, but we will only address the most important one next.

Full support of the NP Friend List utility is currently a staggering 24MB of extra memory (on top of the 8MB needed for the startup). This utility provides the support of the NP friend’s list, allowing players to add, remove, block and communicate with their friends along with the corresponding GUI interface. The extraneous demand on memory has been met with with concern from developers. Since this is just the first iteration of the utility, Sony has vowed to reduce the memory impact of the utility to something more manageable (20MB is the rumored target for the next major release expected in late May – early June).

Video chat (supporting up to 6 concurrent users) requires 26MB of memory, while voice chat (supporting up to 12 users) requires 8MB. The utility allowing for in-game microphone configuration is also 8MB.

Finally, developers can choose to support an integrated web browser. The memory cost for a web browser can vary from around 40MB to 90MB+, depending on the web sites being browsed, and the number of windows and tabs used.
Click to expand...
 
F

FirewalkR

Member
RubberJohnny said:
The last reliable figures we had for PS3 were from Firmware 1.60, they may have improved since then, but there's still a lot of optimisation to go.
Click to expand...

There's more recent info for 1.80 from the same blog, check my post earlier in this thread.
 
F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
FirewalkR said:
Did Sony decide to use just 512 MB from the get-go or was it to be more (1GB?) at any point during development?
Click to expand...
As far as I know, both MS and Sony were initially planning to go with 256main + something. So no, I don't think 512+ was ever really on the table.
 
E

Epiphyte

Member
Ariexv said:
Every bit helps :p not to mention in a "gamer mode" their should be more CPU/GPU power to go towards the game as well.
Click to expand...
MS promised something like this in Vista, but I think benchmarks have proven it doesn't appear to be functional or at least doesn't work well
 
B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
jarrod said:
Actually, did the 16bitters reserve any space (would they need to)? GBA? The 16bit CD-ROM formats (PCE, MD)?
Click to expand...
gba my guess would be probably not. pre-PSX/Saturn no... there was no such thing as an OS or reserved space on the console. the systems were built to hook the ROM on boot and you programmed directly to the hardware. the closest you might get would be the TurboCD or SegaCD which both needed a basic kernel to load and read from the CD. This is what allowed Nintendo to include custom chips and mappers on their carts as there was no real SDK to work within. If you needed an instruction set that didn't exist you just included a custom chip on the cart. Sega instead opted to include additional instructions and hardware features on both the SegaCD and 32x.
 
J

Jim

Member
acm2000 said:
PS3s was 48MB from main memory, and nothing from video memory anymore
Click to expand...

Pretty much... and many of the more commonly used functions that used to require a chunk of additional memory allocation, now do not (certain implementations of messaging, soundtracks, etc.) Hence Faf's "evolving" comment, I believe.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Jim said:
Pretty much... and many of the more commonly used functions that used to require a chunk of additional memory allocation, now do not (certain implementations of messaging, soundtracks, etc.) Hence Faf's "evolving" comment, I believe.
Click to expand...
When did the V-RAM requirement go?
 
A

acm2000

Member
Jeseus said:
With 2.20
Click to expand...

i think thats correct, still some way to go to match the 360 OS in features and then size, but taking up video memory was a very silly decision in the first place
 
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