Beelzebufo
Banned
Just goes to show how the truth eventually comes back to get you I guess.
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"NBC has killed the Bill Cosby pilot amid the mounting accusations of rape..."
- Thread starter Bgamer90
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That and men are taken seriously.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
My thoughts exactly, also, social media.
Edit: Plus the timeliness of Burress' comments aligning with his press tour for the now canceled shows. Wonder if this would get as much exposure when he didn't have new things coming out.
BlackBanditSho
Member
I'm just going to simplify and reiterate what I said so that there's no confusion. I've been banned before for miscommunication:
1. If he did it: he should be punished appropriately.
2. I do not know if he did it. That's kind of the point.
3. I'm not excusing anything due to talent or wealth or likability. I'm saying that in the court of public opinion, he is GUILTY already, and that's interesting. I said that I hope that he didn't do it. That's just me personally. Holds no sway on my feelings on his punishment if he's found guilty in a manner that is acceptable by the the systems we have created.
Puppet Shadow
Member
And the accusation came from a celebrity.
Three pretty crappy reasons, really.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Eh, at this point I don't think anyone is expecting him to be found guilty, it's too long after the fact. I think everyone coming forward just wants people to know what happened. His career going down the drain (even the Cosby Show isn't on TVLand anymore) is enough for now I think.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
True, but I do think it's mostly cause of Burress being a guy, Janice Dickenson is fairly recognizable, I'd argue more than Burress, but I doubt people would take her as seriously. She is also kind of crazy.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
The problem is there's no way we'll probably ever know because he's gotten away with it for decades. So this starting point is pointless, and it makes waffling on accepting 16 women's stories as true seem even more silly.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
So lets say there's this nice restaurant in town with a large number of good reviews. It has a great reputation. But a few people say that they were drugged and raped while eating there. And when the word gets out, more diners share similar stories. Eventually there are 16 accusers. Now, there's no way to know for sure if it's 100% true, but I'm probably not going to eat there. I wouldn't be too heart broken if the place was shut down. I think it's okay to err on the side of caution.
And I feel the same way about how NBC's move to cancel Cosby's pilot. "Innocent until proven guilty" is part of the checks and balances designed to protect innocent people from the justice system. But having your show canceled isn't the same as a lengthy prison sentence. The stakes aren't as high, and the potential harm to society from that policy isn't as high, so the burden of proof isn't as high.
And frankly, even one accusation would arouse suspicion and scrutiny. 16 is astonishing.
We're assuming. The odds of 16 different, unrelated women making such a false claim are so small. It's like when there are several pedophilia charges against a priest, when there are so many, something is up.
Azure Dream
Member
There sure AS HELL is a way to find out if that's true or not. What a nonsense analogy.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
No, without something like a video tape and physical evidence there's always some uncertainty. And it's not really an analogy at all. I'm not going to sugar coat it. People are saying we should believe Cosby over 16 women because reasons. And I don't see any reasons.
Gambit 1138
Banned
What the fuck
Random aside here, but why the hell did we all just forgive Michael Jackson?
When he was alive there was no way anyone with good conscience would listen to his stuff. Maybe you liked BAD, but it wasn't on your iPod where people could see it. You wouldn't list Thriller as one of your top-5 albums making small-talk on a first-date. But when he died, it was as if he had been holding all his old music hostage, and we were finally free to listen to all this great pop once again!
But weren't there always rumours? Didn't he sign a lot of cheques to anonymous families? What the hell?
When he was alive there was no way anyone with good conscience would listen to his stuff. Maybe you liked BAD, but it wasn't on your iPod where people could see it. You wouldn't list Thriller as one of your top-5 albums making small-talk on a first-date. But when he died, it was as if he had been holding all his old music hostage, and we were finally free to listen to all this great pop once again!
But weren't there always rumours? Didn't he sign a lot of cheques to anonymous families? What the hell?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
He testified in court and was examined (although I honestly don't remember what the findings were) and at least denied allegations instead of just stonewalling, so there is at least that...
Silly people.
I guess we shouldn't believe all the people that came forward about Jimmy Saville either?
I was a senior in high school when all of that was going down living near Santa Barbara county. Honestly none of that experience resonates anything near what I remember from that time, even during his trial. His stuff was everywhere before, during and after that time as far as I remember out in the open.
I remember a lot of talk on the issue though. None of it causing people to browbeat others or take any moral stances for listening to his music though.
He went to court and was found not guilty of all charges. If you still think he molested children, that's on you.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I think you missed a word there somewhere?
edit: Or maybe that wasn't directed at me. I think we're in agreement.
Hah. You should catch up then
Blumberg definitely plays a good bumbling fool. He probably even is one. But he's bunbling in the right direction.I worded it wrong lol, blame a lack of sleep.
That's fine. Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I do have a question though.
Since you said you don't know if he did it, there must be a plausible scenario in your head where you think he did not do it. If he didn't do it, under what circumstances do you think all these women would be lying? So I'm not misunderstood I want to say I'm being genuine here. Not trying to be condescending, just curious.
He was able to explain his side of the story for one, something that Cosby although asked has repeatedly not done.
I don't know if this was mentioned already, but Bill Cosby did a show in the Bahamas last night to raise money for a charity for a women's service organization.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/21/cosby-bahamas-sexual-assault_n_6196638.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/21/cosby-bahamas-sexual-assault_n_6196638.html
I almost wonder if part of this happened now because of the concept of a thing going "viral" in the last 5 years is much bigger. I'm not saying it's right, but, when people came forward before, the social-media infrastructure wasn't quite as robust and utilized as it is today, so maybe it didn't pick up steam.
I bet if another stand up comedienne like Tig Notaro or Amy Schumer did the same act, it also would have gone viral in the same manner. It is unfortunate that it took a comedian's bit, not the accuser them self, to bring something like this to light though.
Anton Sugar
Member
I mean...speak for yourself and all. I never stopped listening to his music, particularly his older stuff.
I decided a while ago I'd separate the art from the artist whenever possible. There are a lot of monsters that have created some beautiful works of art.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Hannibal's bit took off partially because he was doing the bit in Philly (Cosby's backyard), and a Philly outlet reported on it. That went viral-ish. A few weeks later, Cosby's twitter team fucked up, and with the viral story from Philly still fresh in their mind, they went to work. Probably a couple thousand people tops were in on that joke, but since twitter is so heavily monitored by news outlets now, that couple thousand people can sound like MILLIONS, and once that became a news story in and of itself, coupled with the fact Cosby's currently on tour, promoting things, showing up on TV shows - kind of a perfect storm.
Whereas in 2005/2006, not only was the concept of "going viral" still mostly attached to things like The Star Wars Kid or whatever, attitudes about sexual assault/rape were still - even 10 years ago - pretty different than they are now. Basically, it was easier to ignore news you didn't like back then, and nobody liked thinking of Bill Cosby as a sexual predator. I know I didn't. I know I put my head in the sand. I went out of my way to not read some of that shit back then.
I can't do that now, both on a logistical level (so many more people are online, and using the internet as their main means of communication with the outside world) and an emotional one, as my thoughts and attitudes have changed in those 10 years as well.
Whereas in 2005/2006, not only was the concept of "going viral" still mostly attached to things like The Star Wars Kid or whatever, attitudes about sexual assault/rape were still - even 10 years ago - pretty different than they are now. Basically, it was easier to ignore news you didn't like back then, and nobody liked thinking of Bill Cosby as a sexual predator. I know I didn't. I know I put my head in the sand. I went out of my way to not read some of that shit back then.
I can't do that now, both on a logistical level (so many more people are online, and using the internet as their main means of communication with the outside world) and an emotional one, as my thoughts and attitudes have changed in those 10 years as well.
Beelzebufo
Banned
They must not have been able to get anyone else in his place. Everyone else is canceling.
BlackBanditSho
Member
Down that road leads destruction. I don't have a plausible scenario. Not enough data. I wasn't there. It would be dismissive to say that all of the women are lying. Until the situation is examined properly, probably through court, where all parties and witnesses for both sides can speak on it, I think that we're really talking about one person's word against another person's word, or, rather, one person versus 16.
And w/o the burden of proof, that's what we're essentially discussing.
gutter_trash
Banned
excellent GIF, especially for those old enough to remember Cosby trying to get the moral high ground for complaining about Murphy's act being immoral.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This isn't court, though. And it's not going to go to court. So what you're left with is 16 people saying the same person has raped them.
So yeah - the benchmark at which you're willing to feel safe weighing in an opinion is for all intents and purposes, imaginary now. It's not going to go to court. You have to work with what you've got. And what you've got is 16 women who have different-yet-similar stories, stretched out over 30 years, about this man drugging and then sexually assaulting them. You've got their accounts, you've got their stories, and you've got his denials, his denial to even broach the subject, and the settlements he's paid.
One person's word vs. another person's word doesn't carry the same weight as 16 people's words vs. one person's word. You can't weigh them the same. Especially not when you look at them.
And if you don't have a plausible scenario as a counterargument, and Cosby isn't even offering one - then what does that say, man? You're not willing to go on the record as saying you think these 16 women are lying, because you know that'd be heinous. But you can't come up with anything else - and it's not just because "you weren't there." It's because there's probably nothing else. In fact, the only other even remotely plausible scenario aside from "all of them are lying" is "he did it."
No flim-flarin-flarin-filth
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I was in a meeting, and I overheard three successful, highly educated black women who all have important administrative positions and they were all dismissive towards the charges and angry/accusatory at the women. Left me baffled, we have a long way to go on rape in our culture.
Ragingbegal
Member
Figure some of you will be interested in this. There's a bill working its way through the Illinois General Assembly that would urge Chicago to name a public library after Bill Cosby.
Decisions like that are weird, no? I know his name is attached to it and all but don't the other cast members still make money from re-runs? Aren't they now being affected by a situation that they had no hand in?
I'm not even sure how I feel about it, just raising a question (I don't know shit about how such things work).
I never knew this to be the case. In fact, MJ was probably one of the only celebrities i've witnessed have such alarming allegations against them but still have people support his music. There were plenty of people i knew who was convinced that MJ was a pedophile but would still rock out to an MJ song
I'm not sure if this is totally true though. The first public accusation was from the woman in 2005 iirc.
Agent Unknown
Member
Here's a really scary new account from actress Michelle Hurd from working on the set of the Cosby Show:
http://www.showbiz411.com/2014/11/2...ted-to-never-tell-anyone-what-we-did-together
http://www.showbiz411.com/2014/11/2...ted-to-never-tell-anyone-what-we-did-together
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
All of these famous women who have no reason to publicly get involved and jeopardize their careers over this are clearly lying, right?
Since this is the primary Cosby Rap Thread, there was another story posted to TMZ about his antics in the green room on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show.
http://www.tmz.com/2014/11/20/bill-cosby-forced-oral-sex-victim-jonny-carson-louisa-moritz/
http://www.tmz.com/2014/11/20/bill-cosby-forced-oral-sex-victim-jonny-carson-louisa-moritz/
Face it Tiger..
Banned
wow, she's pretty hot.
CadetMahoney
Member
Beerman462
Member
Hmmm weird response to that story.
OT: I bet Bill, if guilty) thought he got away with it. If he would have died last year he would be remembered as a hero, a dude who opened the door for so many people. Now he will be remembered as a rapist.
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