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Summer Haze · May 6, 2015

MrJustinius said:
I quote Ian Bell (head of SMS) over at WMD in relation to console performance:

"It's definitely better than Driveclub.

The only heat we should get is from large congratulatory slaps on the arse."

lol

Wow. That confidence in contrast with the finished product is hilarious.

You can disagree with Evo's decision to go with 30fps for DC, but at least it's an absolutely unwavering 30fps with zero screen-tearing. I'd take half the frames if it meant consistency over double the frames with dips and tears all day every day.

hesido · May 6, 2015

Miles Quaritch said:
This is just weird...

Less noticeable effects on the X1 and it still holds a lower FR than the PS4 version...

Xbox One has proper motion blur, PS4 has no motion blur but a god awful image duplicating IQ, as seen in these images so clearly, and the fact that DF mistakes the PS4 image ghosting as motion blur banding artefact is laughable. (Yeah, a single sample motion blur that samples the previous frame would look exactly like this.) You'd expect a linear blur along a path to call something motion blur.

ShapeGSX said:
I'm a little surprised to see temporal AA on a fast moving game.

I still have hard time believing it was intended as a form of AA. It's just a crude buffer blend with 0 pre-processing. I'll eat crow if they are doing something spectacular behind the scenes, as there is ghosting even for the smallest single pixel movement.

Skii · May 6, 2015

Gassolini said:
That would just result in another flavour of outrage. 30fps lock? Yet another outrage. This is the age of entitled outrage and games shall be torn apart, slaughtered, killed, then murdered and killed again at launch )

But this criticism is completely justified as the performance on this game is suffering greatly because of not making the correct decisions.

You aren't entitled if you want a developer to at least correctly optimise their game so that when they claim their game is 60fps, it actually in and around that area in any situation rather than it dropping to 30fps.

If we don't criticise these poor practices, how can you ever expect developers and publishers not to keep going down this route of poor optimisation and bugs? It is plaguing gaming at the moment.

Miles Quaritch · May 6, 2015

MrJustinius said:
I quote Ian Bell (head of SMS) over at WMD in relation to console performance:

"It's definitely better than Driveclub.

The only heat we should get is from large congratulatory slaps on the arse."

lol

Well, to be fair, there are a lot more cars on screens and it does remain mostly in the above 30.

Mostly.

On PS4...

I'd say it's at least equal to DC, but it's an odd comparison to make with one aiming for 30 and the other 60.

Summer Haze · May 6, 2015

I wonder if turning off any of the effects in the menu has an effect on performance? Things such as bloom, lens flare, on-screen dirt effects.

HeliosT10 · May 6, 2015

SkoomaSuckinSwit said:
Has Gran Turismo 7 has suddenly been canceled or something?
Because last I heard (just 2 days ago) the Forza audio lead is now working with Polyphony Digital (Gran Turismo).
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1039147

Nope, our creative audio director Nick Wiswell is still here at Turn 10. An audio lead isn't a head of dept btw.

op_ivy · May 6, 2015

Lukas Japonicus said:
I wonder if turning off any of the effects in the menu has an effect on performance? Things such as bloom, lens flare, on-screen dirt effects.

from the OP, "ery slight tweaks to performance are possible by adjusting Project Cars' post effects menu. Using a bottled replay, we compare two separate runs side-by-side; one with all effects enabled, the other without - the latter of which brings a lead of around 2fps on average."

video too

Handy Fake · May 6, 2015

Lukas Japonicus said:
I wonder if turning off any of the effects in the menu has an effect on performance? Things such as bloom, lens flare, on-screen dirt effects.

On-screen dirt effects, honey, gold, jewels, money, women, wine, cars that shine...

danowat · May 6, 2015

Not being a backer, I am not privvy to the goings on inside the WMD forum, but I am a little perplexed that this temporal AA thing wasn't brought up during the (what I imagine) countless hours of testing of the PS4 version.

While I don't think it's a huge issue when the game is in motion, in static shots it looks abhorrent.

I know SMS have said that this gives the PS4 version better overall IQ, but man.........

Lukas Japonicus said:
I wonder if turning off any of the effects in the menu has an effect on performance? Things such as bloom, lens flare, on-screen dirt effects.

Circa 2fps according to DF

Mascot · May 6, 2015

Miles Quaritch said:
Well, to be fair, there are a lot more cars on screens and it does remain mostly in the above 30.

Mostly.

On PS4...

I'd say it's at least equal to DC, but it's an odd comparison to make with one aiming for 30 and the other 60.

Wasn't DC also aiming for 60fps during development?

And how did I get sucked into comparing DC to pCARS?

Fucking JediGAF mind tricks!

MrJustinius · May 6, 2015

More from Ian Bell:

"These are 'stress tests'. They've chosen worst case scenario tracks and worst case scenario weather/lighting. We run at a fairly steady 60 FPS on all platforms 95%+ of the time.

It's a fantastic achievement considering first party devs can't manage it on a single platform.

So yes, I revert to my earlier statement. The only heat should be five fingers of red from congratulatory arse slaps."

Summer Haze · May 6, 2015

op_ivy said:
from the OP, "ery slight tweaks to performance are possible by adjusting Project Cars' post effects menu. Using a bottled replay, we compare two separate runs side-by-side; one with all effects enabled, the other without - the latter of which brings a lead of around 2fps on average."

video too

Oh, must've missed that, thanks.

Miles Quaritch · May 6, 2015

Mascot said:
Wasn't DC also aiming for 60fps during development?

And how did I get sucked into comparing DC to pCARS?

Fucking JediGAF mind tricks!

I'm not sure, I didn't really follow DC development all that closely, but I do remember there being some outcry when it was revealed to be 30fps.

jayu26 · May 6, 2015

Mascot said:
Wasn't DC also aiming for 60fps during development?

And how did I get sucked into comparing DC to pCARS?

Fucking JediGAF mind tricks!

No

Summer Haze · May 6, 2015

danowat said:
Circa 2fps according to DF

Ah, I see. Less than I would have imagined tbh.

Windom Earle · May 6, 2015

I will definitely get this on PC, those frame drops man...

edit: PS4 version looks ok most of the time actually.

KingSnake · May 6, 2015

All the games are judged by these "stress tests". That's the DF's thing.

_machine · May 6, 2015

MrJustinius said:
I quote Ian Bell (head of SMS) over at WMD in relation to console performance:

"It's definitely better than Driveclub.

The only heat we should get is from large congratulatory slaps on the arse."

lol

You didn't pick up the second one for context:

These are 'stress tests'. They've chosen worst case scenario tracks and worst case scenario weather/lighting. We run at a fairly steady 60 FPS on all platforms 95%+ of the time.

It's a fantastic achievement considering first party devs can't manage it on a single platform.

EDIT: I was late with this one, already posted by him above

Gassolini · May 6, 2015

MrJustinius said:
I quote Ian Bell (head of SMS) over at WMD in relation to console performance:

"It's definitely better than Driveclub.

The only heat we should get is from large congratulatory slaps on the arse."

lol

danowat said:
dat hyperbole

they ain't crippled by self doubt are they LOL

Lukas Japonicus said:
Wow. That confidence in contrast with the finished product is hilarious.
..

If you are riddled with self doubt and hampered by lack of confidence you have no business running a gaming studio.

Also note that Ian has a sense of humor, a trait that observations has sadly led me to believe is not shared by many of the "hardcore"

)

Zombie James · May 6, 2015

MrJustinius said:
I quote Ian Bell (head of SMS) over at WMD in relation to console performance:

"It's definitely better than Driveclub.

The only heat we should get is from large congratulatory slaps on the arse."

lol

Yes, the numbers 31-60 are higher than 30 but when the framerate is never stable, can tank nearly 50%, and you throw in a shitload of constant screen tearing on top of it, you're in no way better than Driveclub. This game is a technical disaster and this guy is seriously short-sighted if that's a direct quote.

RawNuts · May 6, 2015

Miles Quaritch said:
but I do remember there being some outcry when it was revealed to be 30fps.

Understatement of the year. I remember it more along the lines of "a shitload of bitching."

MaLDo · May 6, 2015

MrJustinius said:
More from Ian Bell:

"These are 'stress tests'. They've chosen worst case scenario tracks and worst case scenario weather/lighting. We run at a fairly steady 60 FPS on all platforms 95%+ of the time.

It's a fantastic achievement considering first party devs can't manage it on a single platform.

So yes, I revert to my earlier statement. The only heat should be five fingers of red from congratulatory arse slaps."

His attitude and tone are not correct.

kpaadet · May 6, 2015

MrJustinius said:
More from Ian Bell:

"These are 'stress tests'. They've chosen worst case scenario tracks and worst case scenario weather/lighting. We run at a fairly steady 60 FPS on all platforms 95%+ of the time.

It's a fantastic achievement considering first party devs can't manage it on a single platform.

So yes, I revert to my earlier statement. The only heat should be five fingers of red from congratulatory arse slaps."

This Ian Bell guy is quite the character.

driver116 · May 6, 2015

Bearing in mind DC is locked at 30FPS. I wonder what rates it would reach uncapped - maybe 30's to mid 40's.

Rainy Dog · May 6, 2015

Miles Quaritch said:
This is just weird...

Less noticeable effects on the X1 and it still holds a lower FR than the PS4 version...

Not really. The GPU gap is still much larger than most folk seem to realise or understand.

With that said, some of the framerate comparison grabs simply don't hold much worth with how different each composition is.

ShamePain · May 6, 2015

MouldyK said:
I know that PCars has a higher car count and better effects, but already the "precedent" is broken.

Pre-baked lighting and no weather gives a ton of performance headroom you know. Not to mention that FM5 has noAA noAF as well.

danowat · May 6, 2015

Gassolini said:
If you are riddled with self doubt and hampered by lack of confidence you have no business running a gaming studio.

Also note that Ian has a sense of humor, a trait that observations has sadly led me to believe is not shared by many of the "hardcore" )

that's part of the issue with text based communication, the subtleties of conversion when little tells about humour come into play.

Just comes across as a bit bolshie.

Mascot · May 6, 2015

Zombie James said:
This game is a technical disaster and this guy is seriously short-sighted if that's a direct quote.

This quote is a technical dog's egg.

Mikey Jr. · May 6, 2015

Isn't the ps4 version also running a higher res?

blastprocessor · May 6, 2015

Glad l didn't pre-order this on console now. But my PC only has the GTX660. Upgrade the PC or skip this? - ughhhh.

Zombie James · May 6, 2015

MrJustinius said:
More from Ian Bell:

"These are 'stress tests'. They've chosen worst case scenario tracks and worst case scenario weather/lighting. We run at a fairly steady 60 FPS on all platforms 95%+ of the time.

Ok, let's see it then.

cackhyena · May 6, 2015

Zombie James said:
Yes, the numbers 31-60 are higher than 30 but when the framerate is never stable, can tank nearly 50%, and you throw in a shitload of constant screen tearing on top of it, you're in no way better than Driveclub. This game is a technical disaster and this guy is seriously short-sighted if that's a direct quote.

What? Come the fuck on.

_machine · May 6, 2015

MaLDo said:
His attitude and tone are not correct.

He's part joking, most of his posts have always had this half-serious tone

Not that I agree that the situation is optimal, of course I'd like to see a more stable performance, but as mentioned by DF too the performance is relatively good for most of the career and there's no reason to believe why it wouldn't be even better in MP with the lower vehicle cap.

danowat · May 6, 2015

Mikey Jr. said:
Isn't the ps4 version also running a higher res?

Yes, 1080p vs 900p

Summer Haze · May 6, 2015

Gahhh, I'm so conflicted. I don't know whether to pass this game up entirely, or just turn off most post-process effects (which I was going to do anyway), and turn down the amount of on-track cars for the extra frames. But even then I don't think the performance would be consistent enough for me.

I think I may pre-order from Amazon, give the game a chance, and then decide whether or not to send it back for a full refund. I would never usually do this, but I've been waiting a long time for a sim racer this gen, and I haven't enjoyed GT since PS2.

KiefbladeMaster · May 6, 2015

danowat said:
that's part of the issue with text based communication, the subtleties of conversion when little tells about humour come into play.

Just comes across as a bit bolshie.

Read like a joke to me, the last bit. Think you guys are reading into that too hard.

Performance is sounding pretty meh but they are stress tests. May just get DC instead.

c0de · May 6, 2015

jayu26 said:
No

http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/drive...ution_still_hopes_to_reach_it_for_launch.html

MaLDo · May 6, 2015

_machine said:
He's part joking, most of his posts have always had this half-serious tone

Not that I agree that the situation is optimal, of course I'd like to see a more stable performance, but as mentioned by DF too the performance is relatively good for most of the career and there's no reason to believe why it wouldn't be even better in MP with the lower vehicle cap.

I know he is "part joking". I think is not the correct attitude for a dev to "part joking" about this now.

impact · May 6, 2015

Skii said:
I don't get it. If the Xbox has more CPU available for developers, why doesn't it have the same or better framerates than the PS4 in all scenarios?

No way this is a serious post

Majanew · May 6, 2015

cackhyena said:
What? Come the fuck on.

Drops from 60fps to ~30/~40fps with tearing is pretty fucking terrible. Especially for a sim racer.

nib95 · May 6, 2015

Zombie James said:
Ok, let's see it then.

It's right there in the first video. In both rain and dry, when 20 cars are racing, the frame rate is in the 60's to upper 50's the vast majority of the time.

Malcolm9 · May 6, 2015

danowat said:
Hmmmm........

XB1 gets better AF, again, PS4 blurring / banding is bad.........

Haven't SMS recognised this and are looking into it?

backbreaker65 · May 6, 2015

So if it can't maintain 60fps, how in the hell is this game supposed to have Project Morpheus Support? is there a different way of doing things for morpheus?

orava · May 6, 2015

Lukas Japonicus said:
Wow. That confidence in contrast with the finished product is hilarious.

You can disagree with Evo's decision to go with 30fps for DC, but at least it's an absolutely unwavering 30fps with zero screen-tearing. I'd take half the frames if it meant consistency over double the frames with dips and tears all day every day.

While DC has more bells and whistles in the graphics department, the pcars engine does much more under the hood. It's like comparing simulation like arma to a cod game.

cackhyena · May 6, 2015

Majanew said:
Drops from 60fps to ~30/~40fps with tearing is pretty fucking terrible. Especially for a sim racer.

At certain points. PC rigs with much better setups are getting strained under the same conditions. Calling it a technical disaster is hilariously overblown.

djplaeskool · May 6, 2015

Zombie James said:
This game is a technical disaster and this guy is seriously short-sighted if that's a direct quote.

I don't think I'd be remiss in calling this assessment a tad harsh.
The unstable framerate is highly unfortunate, though. That was one of the reasons I had to force GT6 into 720p mode. 30 or 60fps, stability is paramount.

danowat · May 6, 2015

Malcolm9 said:
Haven't SMS recognised this and are looking into it?

Well, the blurring / banding is by design, it's down to the AA solution they are using, they said it gives the PS4 version a better IQ, so apart from changing to a different solution, not sure what they could do.

I am reading the DF article that had to be pulled, and the new one, obviously the videos were removed, but I am struggling to see much of a difference between the two versions, anyone got a static shots from the pulled version?, or saved the videos?

LilJoka · May 6, 2015

cackhyena said:
At certain points. PC rigs with much better setups are getting strained under the same conditions. Calling it a technical disaster is hilariously overblown.

Hmm atleast on PC you can drop settings to hit 60fps constant. Being a racing sim, 60fps should have been number 1 priority not graphics. Seems like they are cashing in on the graphics audience as thats what everyone keeps talking about.

stryke · May 6, 2015

backbreaker65 said:
So if it can't maintain 60fps, how in the hell is this game supposed to have Project Morpheus Support? is there a different way of doing things for morpheus?

Downgrade, limit to dry weather, restrict to 10 AI etc

Don't see what's so hard about that.

NoLongerALurker · May 6, 2015

Yuck. Will just wait for Forza 6.

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