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New gen patching - Minor Elder Scrolls Online patch today on PS4 is 16gb download

gossi

Member
"Today’s PS4 patch size is 15.9GB because it also includes patches 01.01 - 01.03. Keep an eye on the #ESOTU forums for updates."

https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/613720217949204480

The PS4 already had a 15gb day one patch on launch, so this is on top of that. The changes are listed on the forum, it is all small bugfixes. No content, no big changes.

So if you've played since launch that's 31gb of patches in two weeks. That's almost as big as the base game (40ish GB on PS4).

CIRhtGZWEAA-wv9.jpg
 
Will this literally take up an extra 15gb on my hard drive? or is it getting rid of the patches i've already downloaded, Apple-style?

Either way, its dumb.
 

SerTapTap

Member
Isn't it possible that the person asking just didn't also have patches 1.01 and so on? Pretty sure PS4 added the ability to give only the latest patch if you're up to date a long time ago.
 

Tenebrous

Member
Even with Battle.net/Steam servers, I wouldn't fancy downloading 31GB in patches for an MMO... But on PSN? Damn.

Seems like terribly lazy stuff from the developers.
 

Deacan

9/10 NeoGAFfers don't understand statistics. The other 3/10 don't care.
The irony being that yesterdays patch for the Xbox one was 550mb.
 

bombshell

Member
PS4 shows the combined size of all patches when downloading a patch, but if it's a delta patch it will skip the download of patches you already have.
 

gossi

Member
PS4 shows the combined size of all patches when downloading a patch, but if it's a delta patch it will skip the download of patches you already have.

Yes, all users are getting a 15.9gb download. You can see it in the replies on their tweet.
 
When i updated destiny last it started on about 45gb and finished on about 48gb

You will find that the download starts at 15gb and finishes at 16gb, i does not download everything again, it is like a torrent.
 

gossi

Member
So this is different from warframe, that shows the full size but only downloads the new stuff?

Yes, it is a 16gb download (that is the patch size). People have posted screenshots in the Twitter thread. NeoGAF are talking about it in the GAF console thread too.
 

bombshell

Member
Yes, it is a 16gb download (that is the patch size). People have posted screenshots in the Twitter thread. NeoGAF are talking about it in the GAF console thread too.

The question is not what the size presented by the PS4 is, but where the download actually starts, if you have the previous patches.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
While I DO think this practice is absolute shit, I think MMOs are kind of a different beast. It's the one type of game that I see this practice as kind of acceptable.
 

BigDug13

Member
Sony designed their patching system to work correctly where it only downloads the latest patch info. So why aren't these devs tailoring their patches to the technology Sony has provided?

They're treating their Sony patches like the launch PS4 timeframe when you needed to send the entire patch out. The devs are failing to utilize the tech provided.
 

gossi

Member
While I DO think this practice is absolute shit, I think MMOs are kind of a different beast. It's the one type of game that I see this practice as kind of acceptable.

The patch was 530mb on Xbox One.

I'm just making the point that patch sizes are bananas for many players. Not everybody has super duper broadband.
 

thelastword

Banned
I hope that this patch at least increases AF to 16X, framerate is solid good on the game with the exception of mild stuttering, but the IQ needs a boost for textures.
 

VariantX

Member
"Today’s PS4 patch size is 15.9GB because it also includes patches 01.01 - 01.03. Keep an eye on the #ESOTU forums for updates."

Equally dosen't help that PSN download speeds are so damn slow either. I'm already thinking about getting a 2TB HDD next year just to not worry about having to "empty the fridge" all the time.
 

jimi_dini

Member
Are you sure it's a Sony issue? Don't the developers put the patch together? Sony has provided the means to incrementally patch. But devs still have to use it.

Why is Sony's patch system incapable of simply seeing that for example 95% of the included data wasn't changed and thus not download it again?

Even if the developers are dumb enough to create 3 patches, which are almost the same, the system below it should be able to detect it and not force everyone to download the already changed data again. That's the whole purpose of a patching system. Otherwise Sony could simply force everyone to download the whole game every single time. I mean why even bother at all. I wouldn't call 16 GB of a 40 GB game a patch anymore.

Do the devs pay for the bandwidth, or do they just pay for the patch itself (if even that) and Sony pays for the bandwidth? It would be in Sony's best interest to implement a proper patching system in any case. I mean look at it. 12 hours for 16 GB of data. urgh.

I just remembered that even the original Doom did this properly. There were not only patches that applied to specific versions of the game (and so smaller depending on how up-to-date you were), but they also included the actually changed content of data files, not the whole data file itself. Which means those patches were really tiny. And that was over TWENTY years ago.
 
OK, so if you bought the game digitally you're looking at either 56GB or 70GB of data downloaded this month.

If you're on Comcast in certain markets, that's about a quarter of your monthly allotment.
 

hesido

Member
Bad planning, if the patch does not contain massive amount of textures / sounds or what have you.

Why is Sony's patch system incapable of simply seeing that for example 95% of the included data wasn't changed and thus not download it again?

Even if the developers are dumb enough to create 3 patches, which are almost the same, the system below it should be able to detect it and not force everyone to download the already changed data again. That's the whole purpose of a patching system. Otherwise Sony could simply force everyone to download the whole game every single time.

Do the devs pay for the bandwidth, or do they just pay for the patch itself (if even that) and Sony pays for the bandwidth? It would be in Sony's best interest to implement a proper patching system in any case. I mean look at it. 12 hours for 16 GB of data. urgh.

I just remembered that even the original Doom did this properly. There were not only patches that applied to specific versions of the game (and so smaller depending on how up-to-date you were), but they also included the actually changed content of data files, not the whole data file itself. Which means those patches were really tiny.

It's probably up to the dev to decide what goes in a patch. But yes, Sony should make it easy to do differential updates for games if they are not doing it already, for example, detecting changes in a repository on Sony's side and send you only the changed / added bits?
 

thenexus6

Member
Yup, got that update today. I went to play and couldn't - my internet is very good but this 15GB will take me all night thanks to Sonys shite servers.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Sony as well as MSFT lifted the bandwidth and patch amount restrictions this gen I believe.

The devs are not taking advantage of the increment system Sony has. Driveclub nor GTAV does not do the 10gigs all over again when the smaller patches roll out. The only time it does the full 10 again with a new patch is if there was an issue during the scan of content (preparing file for download with the %'s) before it starts the download.
 

BigDug13

Member
Why is Sony's patch system incapable of simply seeing that for example 95% of the included data wasn't changed and thus not download it again?

Even if the developers are dumb enough to create 3 patches, which are almost the same, the system below it should be able to detect it and not force everyone to download the already changed data again. That's the whole purpose of a patching system. Otherwise Sony could simply force everyone to download the whole game every single time. I mean why even bother at all. I wouldn't call 16 GB of a 40 GB game a patch anymore.

Do the devs pay for the bandwidth, or do they just pay for the patch itself (if even that) and Sony pays for the bandwidth? It would be in Sony's best interest to implement a proper patching system in any case. I mean look at it. 12 hours for 16 GB of data. urgh.

I just remembered that even the original Doom did this properly. There were not only patches that applied to specific versions of the game (and so smaller depending on how up-to-date you were), but they also included the actually changed content of data files, not the whole data file itself. Which means those patches were really tiny. And that was over TWENTY years ago.

And was all that done by Id Software or was it done by Microsoft in MS-DOS or Windows 3? Because blaming Sony is like saying it's MS-DOS's fault if patching in a game isn't performed incrementally. Other games patch just fine, so why is Bethesda's game special and what part of that issue makes it the platform holder's fault?
 

jimi_dini

Member
It's probably up to the dev to decide what goes in a patch. But yes, Sony should make it easy to do differential updates for games if they are not doing it already, for example, detecting changes in a repository on Sony's side and send you only the changed / added bits?

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

That's like GIT downloading whole directories on every single pull instead of just figuring out what the exact state on the target computer is and only getting the differences (GIT actually does the latter, which is the only sane thing to do).

And was all that done by Id Software or was it done by Microsoft in MS-DOS or Windows 3? Because blaming Sony is like saying it's MS-DOS's fault if patching in a game isn't performed incrementally.

I disagree.
It's Sony's framework behind it. It's Sony's platform. It's not the dev creating their own patching system and using that one. It's using the standard Sony patch system, so it's of course Sony's job to make that work properly. It shouldn't matter what the dev actually does behind the scenes.

The dev could for example accidentally mark the whole game as patched. Is it a good idea to just take that and not check the input? It's even a simple thing to do. File didn't get changed -> do not upload it to the user's machines unless they didn't have the latest version already. Done.

My point was: this stuff was figured out over twenty years ago. It's nothing new. And it's simple.

You are also comparing apples and oranges. MS-DOS is an open platform. PS3+PS4 are closed platforms. You can't do anything on PS3+PS4 without Sony's approval. They fully own it.

Other games patch just fine, so why is Bethesda's game special and what part of that issue makes it the platform holder's fault?

Platform holders patching system -> platform holders fault.
It's as simple as that.

If they actually created their own patching system, used that one and skipped Sonys, then I would fully agree.
 

FistOfSyn

Banned
That is exactly why I don't want a digital only future.

I got my ps4 two weeks ago and a code for the last of us: that game alone was freaking 50gb!

10% of my storage in 1 game. And that's not counting the ''normal'' 2gb + patches from literally every game now. Not everyone has unlimited download capacity here..
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
It's probably up to the dev to decide what goes in a patch. But yes, Sony should make it easy to do differential updates for games if they are not doing it already, for example, detecting changes in a repository on Sony's side and send you only the changed / added bits?

They do have that system, the devs probably overlooked it.

PS4 can definitely do differential patching. This one is on Bethesda.

Yep.
 

gossi

Member
Tweet from developer: "We understand that the patch size is frustrating and are working to ensure future #ESOTU PS4 patches are not cumulative."
 

Kinsella

Banned
Yeah it's ridiculous, but what's more ridiculous is how lousy the PS4 is at deciding when it wants to and when it doesn't want to download patches while in Rest mode. Two years later and Sony still can't get it right so now it's a crapshoot on whether or not I turn my PS4 on and see patches already completed or like today, I see a 16 gig file needing to be download.

These patch sizes are why I eventually deleted DCUO (in addition to it being an incredibly mediocre game). I'll do the same to this game if they keep doing this. I just don't like the game yet.
 

Hawk269

Member
While I DO think this practice is absolute shit, I think MMOs are kind of a different beast. It's the one type of game that I see this practice as kind of acceptable.
So hoe do explain that same patch that has the fixes on Xbox One was only 500mb?


Btw the patch does wonders for the lag and hitching in highly populated towns. It is a night and day difference.
 
Don't see whats the matter, with how the games are especially MMO's its no different from their PC counterparts. Yesterday SWTOR had a maintenance and patch that was like 17gb for little update.

So hoe do explain that same patch that has the fixes on Xbox One was only 500mb?


Btw the patch does wonders for the lag and hitching in highly populated towns. It is a night and day difference.

Obviously it's not the same patch with the size differences. Likely lot of background fixes/updates/changes that aren't in the changelog or stuff being put in to be used later.
 

Wallaby32

Neo Member
Yeah it's ridiculous, but what's more ridiculous is how lousy the PS4 is at deciding when it wants to and when it doesn't want to download patches while in Rest mode. Two years later and Sony still can't get it right so now it's a crapshoot on whether or not I turn my PS4 on and see patches already completed or like today, I see a 16 gig file needing to be download.

These patch sizes are why I eventually deleted DCUO (in addition to it being an incredibly mediocre game). I'll do the same to this game if they keep doing this. I just don't like the game yet.

Generally patches will download at around 5am Eastern time. if the patch has not been pushed out before that time on said day, it will not check again (while in rest mode) until 5am the next day.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Don't see whats the matter, with how the games are especially MMO's its no different from their PC counterparts. Yesterday SWTOR had a maintenance and patch that was like 17gb for little update.

Obviously it's not the same patch with the size differences. Likely lot of background fixes/updates/changes that aren't in the changelog or stuff being put in to be used later.


Yep. Welcome to the world of MMO's everyone. Also, the dev just tweeted they will be working on making sure they are not cumulative. It is on their end, the tools are there by Sony.
 
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