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Resilient · Jan 10, 2016

am I missing something re: N1 grammar patterns? particularly the following:

ーのは　N　くらいのものだ。
V/Adjective/N　ものとして。
Vる　ものとする。

can't find many references to them online, and the Red/Blue/Yellow grammar bibles don't document them. have I missed something here? are these alternative ways of saying stuff, that would be defined under something else (more common)?

Kansoku · Jan 10, 2016

Resilient said:
am I missing something re: N1 grammar patterns? particularly the following:

ーのは　N　くらいのものだ。
V/Adjective/N　ものとして。
Vる　ものとする。

can't find many references to them online, and the Red/Blue/Yellow grammar bibles don't document them. have I missed something here? are these alternative ways of saying stuff, that would be defined under something else (more common)?

Are you sure they are not in the notes of other entries?

Resilient · Jan 10, 2016

well I don't know, that's why I asked. as in, I don't know the other entries. I found scraps of notes/explanations online, but thought it was weird that I didn't find them using the Index of the grammar dictionary (the red one). all G, if anybody knows just send me a heads up.

Laevateinn · Jan 10, 2016

Have you tried going the other way and reading Japanese websites discussing the meaning rather than stuff targeting foreign learners?

I'm an expert · Jan 10, 2016

All I did was highlight all three of your examples, hit search, and I found pages of explanations and examples of all of them. In Japanese.

So..

Do you mean you didn't find anything online in english? Because why the fuck would you want english explanations of advanced grammar at this point.

RangerBAD · Jan 10, 2016

I'm an expert said:
All I did was highlight all three of your examples, hit search, and I found pages of explanations and examples of all of them. In Japanese.

So..

Do you mean you didn't find anything online in english? Because why the fuck would you want english explanations of advanced grammar at this point.

First result I found was actually in English.

http://japanesetest4you.com/flashcard/learn-jlpt-n1-grammar-くらいのものだ-kurai-no-mono-da/

Resilient · Jan 10, 2016

I'm an expert said:
All I did was highlight all three of your examples, hit search, and I found pages of explanations and examples of all of them. In Japanese.

So..

Do you mean you didn't find anything online in english? Because why the fuck would you want english explanations of advanced grammar at this point.

huh? question was "and the Red/Blue/Yellow grammar bibles don't document them. have I missed something here? are these alternative ways of saying stuff, that would be defined under something else (more common)?" question should probably be then, is this the reason why they don't appear in the "A Dictionary of .... Grammar". I figure the only people who are really gonna know are those that have just studied for N1/are actively studying for it. when I said i found scraps of explanations, they were the English ones yeah. but i had to learn them last night doing...exactly what you described.

I'm an expert · Jan 10, 2016

I think the misunderstanding is you think those books have every Japanese grammar point in existence..? ..while I've never assumed that. Do the books claim to? I doubt it because I'm sure they don't. All I was saying was so what if they're not in there, you can learn them without them. The only reason to want something to be in that book is good English explanations/examples, which are nice, but not needed.

Resilient · Jan 10, 2016

Yeah I sorta realised the books didn't cover the nuances/extensions of patterns with some of the N2 stuff. Like when it became less of "this is this grammar pattern. It means this." And more of "these are extensions of these patterns. Figure it out jackass". The 3 I brought up all look and generally act like extensions/nuances of ものだ。として。and とする。and when I read J explanations I figured them out. I just didn't want to rely solely on that, cause if my interpretation is wrong then I'm going to move forward learning them wrong. But I'm not dumb so that won't happen 👌👌👌👐

TheSporkWithin · Jan 12, 2016

Went home to visit family over the holidays and went into a holding-pattern with my studies (anki reviews for vocab, reading when I had time, not pushing any new grammar). Cracking open my N2 grammar books again I'm amazed to find that I didn't seem to "lose" any grammar over the holidays, and I'm feeling really refreshed and able to push forward at a nice rate. I think all the reading helped, as I'm feeling much more confident with the "new" grammar, as I've seen a great deal of it in some form before.

For mid-upper intermediate learners, I want to recommend the novel I've been reading: ペンギンハイウェイ by 森見 登美彦 (Morimi Tomihiko). It's written in a very "lucid" style, which makes for really easy reading while using a lot of grammar patterns in a very clear way. The reason is that the narrator, Aoyama, is a very precocious 4th grader who records his daily activities in his "research notebook," so you have very intelligent writing using a wide vocabulary, without it being overly flowery or "literary." It's also quite funny, being filled with all sorts of "shit kids say" moments, like Aoyama solemnly telling his friend that whenever he starts to get angry, he just thinks about boobs for a little while, until the feeling passes.

I'm not quite halfway through, but the initial plot is that one day a bunch of penguins appear, seemingly out of nowhere, in the middle of his town. They're rounded up and taken to the zoo on a truck, but they escape on the way. Aoyama decides to do "research" on the penguins and other strange occurrences in his town.

That's pretty much what you get from the Amazon blurb, if you want a bit more of a tease, read on:

While exploring the woods in his "exploration party" comprised of him and his friend (who is obsessed with and terrified by black holes), Aoyama finds a penguin. They're attacked by bullies, and his friend escapes leaving Aoyama at the mercy of the bullies who steal his "exploration map" of the woods, leaving him tied to a vending machine. Soon an older girl on whom Aoyama has an enormous crush (unnamed, just called 姉さ&#12435

, comes along, unties him, and tosses a cola can from the vending machine into the air - which turns into another penguin mid-flight.

While the narrator is a kid, this isn't a children's novel. There's no furigana, and while the sentences are clearly and simply constructed, they use a lot of junior high and high school level grammar (Aoyama is a very precocious kid, after all), along with a lot of advanced vocabulary. I'd really recommend this to someone who wants to try a real adult novel, but who maybe isn't quite ready for Murakami Haruki or Yoshimoto Banana. I'll post again with more thoughts when I finish, whenever that ends up being.

Resilient · Jan 12, 2016

awesome, thanks Sporkle. I was asking a few pages back for books; I need some new novels to push what I've learned the last few months so I'll pick it up. I'll probably pick some other random shit up as well. Do you use a Kindle? I've played with the idea...but CBF any more electronic vampire fuckers in my house.

TheSporkWithin · Jan 12, 2016

Resilient said:
awesome, thanks Sporkle. I was asking a few pages back for books; I need some new novels to push what I've learned the last few months so I'll pick it up. I'll probably pick some other random shit up as well. Do you use a Kindle? I've played with the idea...but CBF any more electronic vampire fuckers in my house.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've posted about it in here before. Kindle is amazing for foreign-language books because of the built-in dictionary features. Depending on what I'm reading and how much I want to challenge myself I can change between J/E and J/J dictionaries on the fly. It's great for when you want to check the pronunciation of a word without pulling yourself out completely.

Resilient · Jan 12, 2016

torn...do i want the physical copy of the book or the digital version that will make things easier..

edit: fk u amazon shipping and shitty AU dollar

TheSporkWithin · Jan 13, 2016

Ease of acquiring books is definitely a big mark in favor of the Kindle (or Kindle app on a tablet or PC), if you're outside of Japan.

LorDjidane · Jan 13, 2016

I'm an expert said:
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying his first inclination was to go for video games. I dont have the energy to convince him the stupidity of that so maybe the better route for him to not waste his time, if his industry allows it, is just get there asap and then he can use that as the catalyst for cleaning up his language learning.

I didn't check the board since my last post so I missed three pages here but since the quoted post was about me, let me just say I couldn't care less about videogames concerning my wanting to go to Japan. I just wanna go there for a couple of years as a semiconductors engineer, living a "regular" life and voilà.
(people tell me to go to the US or Germany or whatever country but I'm not really interested from a "regular life" point of view (no offense to none of their countrymen))

I'd also like to talk about previous posts where was mentioned an idea like "I don't understand how engineers that can't speak the language of their company would be hired". Well we do have some of those in mine so people around those people need to be constantly speaking in English (the "working language") and apart from a few people, others are really not fluent at all so that lots of information is lost in meetings, emails and whatever discussions they can have and this totally feels like a mess. Ok, those foreigners probably have a lot to bring to the table in terms of engineering, science, whatever but the more I work, the more I am under the impression that it's not about what you technically bring but about how you can interact with your colleagues. And so, that's why I (again this is a personal opinion) wouldn't go to Japan without having an at least decent level.

Sorry for talking about old stuff, please continue!

Resilient · Jan 13, 2016

That's interesting. I work for an international company but we admittedly don't have many foreign engineers that I can think of that compare to what you're talking about. I can imagine that would be difficult especially in this discipline. But I disagree with the last bit, it's about how you interact and what can you bring otherwise you're not as useful. Both those things are on you; it's easy to fix the language barrier if you commit to it and I guess maybe not so much the last one lol; you either have it or don't when it comes to interacting. I'm not taking about you personally, I mean the general you. Well if you wanna get to a decent level quickly and solidly IMO it's possible, and you work, and I'm working and doing it so you could. I can't remember, do ou have any Japanese skills at all or are you coming from 0? Mind you my advice concerns purely methods of study that are working for me, not advice on the language and general language ability. Other peeps will be able to chime in on what study shit is working for them too ATM.

RangerBAD · Jan 14, 2016

For people doing a kanji and word list: Did you phase kanji out of your list and if so when? I'm doing as many kanji as I can in a month (about 12 kanji a day) and I'm about two and a half weeks in. Going to cycle back into grammar next month and hopefully more kanji the next. However, 4-5 hours of pure writing is starting to take a toll on my body.

I'm an expert · Jan 14, 2016

What you quoted has nothing to do with why you want to go to Japan. Was saying if your first idea for studying the language is playing games, and your goal is to work in Japan, then your idea for studying the language sucks and you should save yourself the waste of time and just stop making excuses and go. Because you will never reach whatever 'decent level' means to you with that kind of thinking.

Resilient · Jan 14, 2016

RangerBAD said:
For people doing a kanji and word list: Did you phase kanji out of your list and if so when? I'm doing as many kanji as I can in a month (about 12 kanji a day) and I'm about two and a half weeks in. Going to cycle back into grammar next month and hopefully more kanji the next. However, 4-5 hours of pure writing is starting to take a toll on my body.

no, I still write a word that has 日 in it first thing every morning. probably wont ever phase it out. but, my circumstances are different. look at it this way. i have the first 1100 on lock and can write them extremely quickly. having said that, I know that I know the first 200 kanji better than 201-400. and even more compared to 401-600. and so on. so if you take them out you lose that extra bit of memorisation. you could take them out at some point when you feel comfortable and consider them "studied", but logic would dictate you would know them better if you wrote them for 90 days straight instead of 45.

i know that 1936-2136 Kanji will be the hardest to remember day to day. know what i mean?

marimorimo · Jan 14, 2016

Zefah said:
It's already been posted by Expert and Aizo, but by this definition, just about no one would be fluent in any language. Those are ridiculously high standards.

Yes, that's why I said I probably have standards that are too high. But being able to participate in live debate, write a thesis, and "sell" to a Japanese aren't exotic abilities. What I wanted to say that to write, debate, and do sales effectively requires a base level of language ability independent of training. And that base level is pretty high enough that most people studying a language as an adult never achieve it. Even if they are "fluent," they're not fluent enough.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but the bolded seems like a damn terrible idea to me. If you happen to be proficient in the accent, that's one thing, but trying to mimic the person's accent, especially if they're speaking in a language that isn't their native tongue, could come across as downright offensive.

Maybe you're thinking of it as the equivalent of "black face"? I don't live in the US, for one thing, and I'm proficient in the accents I change into because I'm a native speaker, or near one. I know quite a few Japanese people who now speak English with our native accent (which I found weird and funny at first) and it actually increased their popularity and other people's comprehension of their speech.

But yeah...I could imagine how the situation could backfire. It's worked on me so far, but use with caution.

Deleted member 17706 · Jan 14, 2016

marimorimo said:
Yes, that's why I said I probably have standards that are too high. But being able to participate in live debate, write a thesis, and "sell" to a Japanese aren't exotic abilities. What I wanted to say that to write, debate, and do sales effectively requires a base level of language ability independent of training. And that base level is pretty high enough that most people studying a language as an adult never achieve it. Even if they are "fluent," they're not fluent enough.

There are plenty of foreigners who work in Japan and "sell" to Japanese people, or even debate on live TV, but I wouldn't necessarily consider them more proficient at Japanese *in general* than a typical educated native speaker. Plenty of them may have heavy accents or occasionally make weird word choices, for example.

marimorimo said:
Maybe you're thinking of it as the equivalent of "black face"? I don't live in the US, for one thing, and I'm proficient in the accents I change into because I'm a native speaker, or near one. I know quite a few Japanese people who now speak English with our native accent (which I found weird and funny at first) and it actually increased their popularity and other people's comprehension of their speech.

But yeah...I could imagine how the situation could backfire. It's worked on me so far, but use with caution.

It's my experience in a few countries that people don't like it when "outsiders" ape their accents. Like how Kansai folks don't really appreciate Kanto people trying to emulate their accents or sayings. It's different when you're a foreign learner and adopt the accent of the place in which you learned. I wouldn't find a native Japanese guy who spoke near perfect British English with BBC pronunciation. I would just assume that's the environment in which he learned the language. Same for a foreigner in Japan speaking Kansai-ben. I just assume they lived in Osaka or wherever when they picked up Japanese.

RangerBAD · Jan 14, 2016

Resilient said:
no, I still write a word that has 日 in it first thing every morning. probably wont ever phase it out. but, my circumstances are different. look at it this way. i have the first 1100 on lock and can write them extremely quickly. having said that, I know that I know the first 200 kanji better than 201-400. and even more compared to 401-600. and so on. so if you take them out you lose that extra bit of memorisation. you could take them out at some point when you feel comfortable and consider them "studied", but logic would dictate you would know them better if you wrote them for 90 days straight instead of 45.

i know that 1936-2136 Kanji will be the hardest to remember day to day. know what i mean?

I don't know what to do. I didn't expect to hit my limit this early on.

Resilient · Jan 14, 2016

RangerBAD said:
I don't know what to do. I didn't expect to hit my limit this early on.

well like i said in my post, if you take them out earlier, they wont retain at the same level. i still think they will retain to a fair degree though, if you're reading and seeing them often. it doesnt have to be writing. so i figure your option is to do 200 kanji blocks for 2.5/3 weeks and then start a new 200 once you're done, if that's your limit. if you don't have to brute force them, or don't have a reason to, don't do it i guess, you have the option to go at a slower pace that is more suited to you.

RangerBAD · Jan 15, 2016

Resilient said:
well like i said in my post, if you take them out earlier, they wont retain at the same level. i still think they will retain to a fair degree though, if you're reading and seeing them often. it doesnt have to be writing. so i figure your option is to do 200 kanji blocks for 2.5/3 weeks and then start a new 200 once you're done, if that's your limit. if you don't have to brute force them, or don't have a reason to, don't do it i guess, you have the option to go at a slower pace that is more suited to you.

Well, I was trying to go at a slower pace. I'll figure something out I guess or just stick it out with grammar and whatever words I pick up along the way. Which feels like I'm not doing my best.

TheSporkWithin · Jan 15, 2016

RangerBAD said:
Well, I was trying to go at a slower pace. I'll figure something out I guess or just stick it out with grammar and whatever words I pick up along the way. Which feels like I'm not doing my best.

Try doing some sort of production that is less physically draining. Maybe trace the characters on your palm or a pillow with your finger. Or even just closing your eyes and envisioning yourself putting pen to paper and writing the stuff out (like literally try to imagine every stroke and movement).

bigmit3737 · Jan 15, 2016

What's the word at :57？

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UWMNIdrWyE

婚姻届を～(?)～をいたしました。

Thanks.

Resilient · Jan 15, 2016

RangerBAD said:
Well, I was trying to go at a slower pace. I'll figure something out I guess or just stick it out with grammar and whatever words I pick up along the way. Which feels like I'm not doing my best.

I think you're doing the best you can do, which is fine. I tell you now, no lie, I've learned more from this method than I have using textbooks for the last year. so I think you can drop the textbook style for something better. let's look at it this way

1. we know that if 200 is taking you 4.5 hours (and this is the easier, sub 10/15 stroke Kanji) that 2136 in a day is not possible.

2. we know that 200 is your limit, take into account this is the easier stuff, from 300-1100 is one degree of difficult, from 1101 on is another (re: stroke order, complexity etc). but also your understanding of the base kanji and the radicals will help with the complicated stuff. so lets note that too.

3. we know you don't have a deadline/timeline you are adhering to.

with that i say, go for 150-180 every 2.5-3 weeks, 2136/165 = 13, 13 * 3 = 39 weeks. good timeline to me, that's a year, that's faster than the golden child WaniKani right? is say go for it. take breaks when you need. read your writing list often when you can (to review the stuff that isn't in your current list). i say you can do it. i tell you. it's better than the textbooks. it's better than WaniKani, or SRS or flashcards. but, it's also about what works for you, and what you like doing. follow your heart

I'm an expert · Jan 15, 2016

提出

bigmit3737 · Jan 15, 2016

I'm an expert said:
提出

Ah! Thanks.

Resilient · Jan 17, 2016

who is a bad enough weeb to help out with this sentence usage of よう ?

２０年ぶりの故郷の変わりように驚いた。

彼女の子供のかわいがりようは、少し異常なくらいだ。

V stem よう。

from what I've read, I'm understanding it as, loosely, "the way in which <verb>" but can't confirm it with anything except reading other uses of it, and saying to myself "hm well i guess you can say it means that".

bonus: lets do away with English interpretation and stick with Jgo.

ものは考えようだ。 can this also be said as 考え方による。?

edit: page 595 blue book. weebin it. the above example is right. it's similar to the way of doing some shit.

Mik2121 · Jan 17, 2016

Resilient said:
who is a bad enough weeb to help out with this sentence usage of よう ?

２０年ぶりの故郷の変わりように驚いた。

彼女の子供のかわいがりようは、少し異常なくらいだ。

V stem よう。

from what I've read, I'm understanding it as, loosely, "the way in which <verb>" but can't confirm it with anything except reading other uses of it, and saying to myself "hm well i guess you can say it means that".

bonus: lets do away with English interpretation and stick with Jgo.

ものは考えようだ。 can this also be said as 考え方による。?

edit: page 595 blue book. weebin it. the above example is right. it's similar to the way of doing some shit.

Personally I can't remember the last time I used よう like that, but yeah, it's pretty much what you read.

Also if you wanna keep it Japanese only, you can use a site like this:

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/219738/meaning/m0u/

Resilient · Jan 17, 2016

Mik2121 said:
Personally I can't remember the last time I used よう like that, but yeah, it's pretty much what you read.

Also if you wanna keep it Japanese only, you can use a site like this:

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/219738/meaning/m0u/

thanks dude. I use Goo, pops up on Google heaps, but it comes back to doubting how I interpret it the sentence, so then I try to defer to an English source. do I just trust myself and go with it? I know I have to, cuz the English interpretations just hold back my understanding more often than not. thoughts? when you took the steps from N3 stuff to N2-N1, how did you approach it?

TheSporkWithin · Jan 17, 2016

I've linked it in here before, but this is an excellent Japanese "grammar dictionary." http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4874241549/

The entry on 〜よう covers the difference between よう and かた by saying that よう tends towards the substance of something, while かた is more about the production. It contrasts 言い方が悪い and 言いようが悪い saying that the former would refer to the manner of speaking (tone, word choice), while the latter would be more about the contents of the speech (vulgarity or just an unpleasant topic).

Resilient · Jan 17, 2016

damn that looks legit. And those are the kinds of explanations I'm after. But honestly as I get more of teh kanjis under my belt, reading off the Japanese resources only will be the way to go. It's just easier to understand it in Japanese instead of using Eng to spoon feed. Jgo lyfe

TheSporkWithin · Jan 17, 2016

It's Japanese only. That was a summary.

　接尾語「~よう」は「苦しむ・悲しむ・嘆く・怒る・驚く・喜ぶ・変わる・~がる...」などの感情や状態を表す自動詞の[ます]形について、様子や状態を表します。また、「する・言う・例える・話す・直す...」など動作 性の他動詞の[ます]形について、方法を表します。

　問題になるのは同じ方法・手段を表す「~方」との違いですが、動作そのものは「~方」がよく、困難さや程 度など内容に近づくほど「~よう」がよくなると言えます。どちらも使える「言いようが悪い」と「言いかたが 悪い」を比べても、話の内容を問題にしたのが「言いよう」で、話す態度・言葉遣いを問題にしたのが「言い方」 です。

Resilient · Jan 18, 2016

Thanks sporkle appreciate it! You hitting that mf like button on N1 this year?

CoolBatteryCharge · Jan 18, 2016

Hello everyone. My intro Japanese course this semester starts tomorrow, so I guess I'll be in this thread a lot this year.

TheSporkWithin · Jan 18, 2016

Resilient said:
Thanks sporkle appreciate it! You hitting that mf like button on N1 this year?

I've got my sights on the N2 this summer. We'll see how that goes. Where I'm at, getting the paper a year earlier won't matter if I can't hack it in conversation and writing, so I don't feel the need to rush for the test.

SirAndroidTV said:
Hello everyone. My intro Japanese course this semester starts tomorrow, so I guess I'll be in this thread a lot this year.

Welcome aboard! Don't let the super hardcore study talk that crops up in this thread scare you off, we all started somewhere and most of us are quite happy to help out with the basic stuff.

Resilient · Jan 18, 2016

who cares about conversation skills. I'm here to play jgames earlier

Resilient · Jan 19, 2016

so...where everyone at?
lot of the regular posters from last year have vanished...and even the regular peeps have gone quiet. everyone still studying? you should all be back from holidays and at work by now

TheSporkWithin · Jan 20, 2016

Resilient said:
so...where everyone at?
lot of the regular posters from last year have vanished...and even the regular peeps have gone quiet. everyone still studying? you should all be back from holidays and at work by now

Just a feeling, but it's possible that some people saw things getting a little bit confrontational and decided to keep their heads down for fear of coming under fire for not studying hard enough or for the right reasons.

On a completely unrelated note, I was at a party last Friday and learned a new word (器[うつわ] - capacity). This is fairly common, but the amusing part was that I knew a much "wordier" word for the same concept (容積[ようせき]), to the point where when I asked if it meant the same thing as ようせき because the guy was trying to explain it using ridiculous gestures, one of the people sitting next to me didn't know that word at all (to hear it, he would have known it written down), while the guy talking was floored by my whipping it out so readily. All this to say, my vocabulary is getting much better, but goddamn does it have some weird gaps and correspondingly weird inclusions.

blurr · Jan 20, 2016

I need to practice more and improve my vocabulary. Currently learning one kanji per day.

I joined HelloTalk and met some folk but too busy to interact with them daily.

And I am planning on taking N3 in July :\

TheSporkWithin said:
Just a feeling, but it's possible that some people saw things getting a little bit confrontational and decided to keep their heads down for fear of coming under fire for not studying hard enough or for the right reasons.

pretty much

marimorimo · Jan 20, 2016

I've just finished unpacking my books and putting them on the shelf after an international move. I arranged them by topic, and it boggled my mind how I have no less than 15 books on N1/Level 1 plus 10 others on kanj, vocab, and other advanced topics. I knew I had a lot of books but I didn't realize I've hoarded this many.

I'm ashamed to admit I've hardly ever cracked the spine of most of them....

They're too good to waste, so I've decided to do a page a day. Let's see if my lazy ass can keep even that up.

On another note, my soon-to-be brother-in-law has taken up my offer to teach him Japanese via Skype. The poor guy has been stuck in the "trying to learn" phase for a couple of years now. When he becomes family, it'd greatly help matters if he could at least communicate with the in-laws. (The other happy alternative would be having the in-laws learn English, but we'll see...)

As to why his fiancée can't be the one to teach him, she kinda expects him to start practicing with her even before knowing the basics. I'm talking　「N1はN2です」 level basic. If she spoke Japanese around him I bet he could pick up a lot of stuff but they're in a long distance relationship and my SIL's English is pretty good so she has no reason to start using Japanese on him.

I was at a loss for teaching materials. The printouts I used long ago for Levels 4 and 3 have been lost and I only have N1 books in the house. However, I was pleasantly surprised to find online resources for learning Japanese have come a long way from where they were 8-10 years ago (yeah, I'm a dinosaur). Here are a couple I'm planning to use:

https://www.coscom.co.jp/index.html
My favorite so far since you can toggle between Japanese and English. Audio recordings are the icing on the cake. And everything is well-organized.

https://minnanokyozai.jp/
This is more of a teacher's resource site that requires registration (free). 6-7 years ago I remember they had this interactive flash browser app that was a fun way to learn some basic vocabulary but I can't find it anymore. It's not very well organized and a pain to browse, but they have a lot of illustrations for making flash cards and teacher's plans for classroom activities. All kanji on the site also comes with furigana so it's easy to read for beginners (hurts my head though). Officially endorsed by the Japan Foundation.

EDIT: Found another gold mine!
https://www.erin.ne.jp/jp/index.php
Pretty cool site with lots of video skits, quizzes, and interactive vocabulary lists. The premise is about the experience of an exchange student from the UK named Erin. Uses real-world Japanese. I estimate that it requires at least late elementary level of Japanese to use effectively without a teacher. If you register, you can keep track of you progress but the content is accessible even without registering. Also officially endorsed by the Japan Foundation.

If anyone knows of other good sites for beginning Japanese, I'd like to hear about them as well.

Aizo · Jan 20, 2016

marimorimo said:
EDIT: Found another gold mine!
https://www.erin.ne.jp/jp/index.php
Pretty cool site with lots of video skits, quizzes, and interactive vocabulary lists. The premise is about the experience of an exchange student from the UK named Erin. Uses real-world Japanese. I estimate that it requires at least late elementary level of Japanese to use effectively without a teacher. If you register, you can keep track of you progress but the content is accessible even without registering. Also officially endorsed by the Japan Foundation.

I was a big fan of that. It's a really great resource. Tell him to put it in Japanese. I never used the interface in English, but I assume it's not nearly as effective.

leroidys · Jan 21, 2016

Almost through all the free stuff on wanikani. I already knew most of the kanji and vocab, was mainly using it as a tool to try and get a better grasp on radicals. I'm going to start paying for it, but there are definitely a few things that are starting to annoy me. The definitions are way too picky. For example, "a few" for '少' isn't accepted, but "few" is.　"person" is wrong for '～人', but "people" is right. Also, it's annoying how many reviews it gives you at the same time. There are some I keep fucking up, but it just gives me the review at the same time as the other 50, instead of letting me drill the ones that I'm obviously much worse at.

Resilient · Jan 22, 2016

Where does the free content take you to? Do they give the kana reading to you for 少？
ー人 is probably listed as people because it's trying to say 一人 、　二人　instead of just ひと　which you would assume is written as 人。

marimorimo · Jan 22, 2016

Aizo said:
I was a big fan of that. It's a really great resource. Tell him to put it in Japanese. I never used the interface in English, but I assume it's not nearly as effective.

I posted that after doing only a cursory look, and I didn't even realize you can change interfaces in multiple languages. So many functions.... watch as a video, read as a manga, change to kana only, romaji only, or see the English/ French/Spanish/Portuguese/Chinese/Korean/Indonesian translations.

They even have onomatopoeia complete with video and sound demonstrations! My mind is sufficiently boggled. If only this site existed back in 2003...

I'm seriously considering using the site to reverse-study Spanish and French (LOL).

With so many great (and free) resources available to study Japanese nowadays, it's hard to come up with an excuse to NOT start learning.

Resilient · Jan 22, 2016

marimorimo said:
I posted that after doing only a cursory look, and I didn't even realize you can change interfaces in multiple languages. So many functions.... watch as a video, read as a manga, change to kana only, romaji only, or see the English/ French/Spanish/Portuguese/Chinese/Korean/Indonesian translations.

They even have onomatopoeia complete with video and sound demonstrations! My mind is sufficiently boggled. If only this site existed back in 2003...

I'm seriously considering using the site to reverse-study Spanish and French (LOL).

With so many great (and free) resources available to study Japanese nowadays, it's hard to come up with an excuse to NOT start learning.

I read your post from the other day, really good resources for anybody really, but I seriously can't even think what mindset I was in when I started studying..with so many options available like you said, you really have to ask yourself "If I want to learn but I'm not doing it yet, what am I waiting for?" Japanese has the luxury (?) of heaps of people wanting to learn it, so there are so many options to choose from when it comes to early content. It's only when you get to further stuff you lose the sugar coating. Which IMO is better, it forces you to adapt if you hadn't yet.

tl;dr, let's bookmark that post as a quick setup for people when they want to start learning and a decent pace.

RangerBAD · Jan 22, 2016

marimorimo said:
I posted that after doing only a cursory look, and I didn't even realize you can change interfaces in multiple languages. So many functions.... watch as a video, read as a manga, change to kana only, romaji only, or see the English/ French/Spanish/Portuguese/Chinese/Korean/Indonesian translations.

They even have onomatopoeia complete with video and sound demonstrations! My mind is sufficiently boggled. If only this site existed back in 2003...

I'm seriously considering using the site to reverse-study Spanish and French (LOL).

With so many great (and free) resources available to study Japanese nowadays, it's hard to come up with an excuse to NOT start learning.

Nothing can easily get rid of the kanji wall though. Just have to put in a lot of time with it.

kubus · Jan 22, 2016

leroidys said:
Almost through all the free stuff on wanikani. I already knew most of the kanji and vocab, was mainly using it as a tool to try and get a better grasp on radicals. I'm going to start paying for it, but there are definitely a few things that are starting to annoy me. The definitions are way too picky. For example, "a few" for '少' isn't accepted, but "few" is.　"person" is wrong for '～人', but "people" is right. Also, it's annoying how many reviews it gives you at the same time. There are some I keep fucking up, but it just gives me the review at the same time as the other 50, instead of letting me drill the ones that I'm obviously much worse at.

I feel ya with how nitpicky wanikani can be about some word definitions, but ~人 being people and not person is not wrong imo. It's the counter they're asking for, and you can't say "two person". People is more natural there. Btw you can add your own synonyms if you get one wrong, so you could add "a few" yourself to 少 and next time it'll accept that definition. I use it a lot.

I've fixed a lot of minor annoyances I have with WaniKani through userscripts, such as adding an "ignore answer" button in case you get a word wrong because of a typo (watch out you don't abuse it) and I've seen scripts that change the review order which fixes that thing you mentioned about wanting to drill the words you keep getting wrong. There are tons of scripts available on the forum and they're incredibly easy to install. Give it a try!

I recently bought WaniKani Lifetime when it was on sale. I'm level 12 now I think and I'm finally getting to the "good stuff" (new things

). It's really a fantastic way to review kanji and making sure you don't forget them.

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