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Only Five measly trophies for a 2016 PSN game.? come on Sony.

J

Jolkien

Member
Fat4all said:
I can understand this, but I still find it ridiculous people would mock a game for having less achievements than any other game, no matter how similar or different. It reeks of judging something for how good it can make you look instead of how it can effect you on any other level, whether for fun or for artistic merit.

I can't think of another medium that has something like this as well, it seems to be something inherit in gaming at the moment.
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I agree it can to my knowledge only be found in gaming. And yeah as much as I don't like people mocking others for liking those system, I also don't like people mocking a game for having only X of trophies. And I can understand where the OP is coming from that it vary greatly on PSN and it seems more consistent on XBL.

But in the end I wasn't interested in Firewatch at all, almost never heard of it but with this thread the let's play in the other thread, watched just a part of that, and I will now buy the game next week. At least from me something positive came of this thread :p
 
O

Overside

Banned
BkzUzi said:
It changes the fact because the trophies system didn't even exist when they were released, so how were those games designed with trophies in mind?

I guess those PS2 game developers also had trophies in mind when the games were initially released, huh? Damn it, trophies ruining games since the PS1 Days!!!
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And that changes the fact the games were NOT designed with trophies in mind how?
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I even capitalized the word not.

What is wrong with you?
 
Q

Quonny

Member
Overside said:
Good lord.... Gamers....

Then... Its exactly what they said, isn't it?

The reason they DIDNT design the game with trophies in MIND is because it would have changed the design of the game from an intrinsic experience, to an extrinsic experience.

That's why they simply went in afterwards to put a few trophies in neutral places, because they absolutely had to.
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What is your problem? I asked a question and you get all snippy.

You said developers design games with trophies in mind. This thread gives an example of a game that doesn't do it, and you use it as an example. That simply doesn't make sense. Games have had collectibles, side objectives, difficulties, whatever way before achievements.

I just don't get what you're arguing.
 
J

Jawbreaker

Member
Some people just really like collecting shit, and trophies are essentially a checklist of things to earn in a game. For some, they want something more tangible to look at once the experience is over kind of like how some people take pictures of incredibly mundane things with their phones every day to plaster all over Facebook. They had some really good tiramisu? Fuck it, take a snapshot of that bitch. That tiramisu will live in infamy along with the rest of the other pictures of $30 Italian meals.
 
O

Overside

Banned
Quonny said:
What is your problem? I asked a question and you get all snippy.

You said developers design games with trophies in mind. This thread gives an example of a game that doesn't do it, and you use it as an example. That simply doesn't make sense. Games have had collectibles, side objectives, difficulties, whatever way before achievements.

I just don't get what you're arguing.
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The reason they said they didn't do it, in this very damn thread... IS BECAUSE IT CHANGES THE DESIGN OF THE GAME.

Its not the riddle of the god damned sphinx. THIS IS WHY I GET 'SNIPPY' HOLY SHIT.

Somebody actually doing something like this is VERY rare.




Back then, those things were discovered through a game having an intrinsic value high enough for the player to continue an investment in the game long enough to find them on their own, the focus was internal, intrinsic, a focus on strong internal design that subtly piqued, guided and rewarded a players own intrinsic motivation to explore, to discover with additional content.


They were not part of an extrinsic checklist. Simply TELLING people that if they shit themselves in the great hall they got a 'secret' is nowhere NEAR the same calibre of design. A checklist to shit through as fast and effeciently as possible, to 'complete' the game, get all the 'points' and then instantly move on the the next game they are told they think is the next must have hyped shit. Its a skinner box. It does NOT have a good effect on design, and turning off trophies does NOT change that the game was designed with an extrinsic checklist in mind.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
nbnt said:
I'm not saying 30 or 40, I'm just saying they should enforce a rule of "at least 13 trophies" for example, for every game, download only or not.
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Why does it have to be 30-40? Why can't 13 work? Why can't non-Platinums work?

Yes, I was disappointed Bio4 HD didn't do a platinum given that's a AAA game, but at the same time small indies like Hotline Miami don't really need that sort of thing given they're smaller budgets and smaller teams.
 
Q

Quonny

Member
Overside said:
The reason they said they didn't do it, in this very damn thread... IS BECAUSE IT CHANGES THE DESIGN OF THE GAME.

Its not the riddle of the god damned sphinx. THIS IS WHY I GET 'SNIPPY' HOLY SHIT.

Somebody actually doing something like this is VERY rare.




Back then, those things were discovered through a game having an intrinsic value high enough for the player to continue an investment in the game long enough to find them on their own, the focus was internal, intrinsic, a focus on strong internal design that subtly piqued, guided and rewarded a players own intrinsic motivation to explore, to discover with additional content.


They were not part of an extrinsic checklist. Simply TELLING people that if they shit themselves in the great hall they got a 'secret' is nowhere NEAR the same calibre of design. A checklist to shit through as fast and effeciently as possible, to 'complete' the game, get all the 'points' and then instantly move on the the next game they are told they think is the next must have hyped shit. Its a skinner box. It does NOT have a good effect on design, and turning off trophies does NOT change that the game was designed with an extrinsic checklist in mind.
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You need to relax. You're acting like a child. I'm done.
 
M

MK_768

Member
Overside said:
The reason they said they didn't do it, in this very damn thread... IS BECAUSE IT CHANGES THE DESIGN OF THE GAME.

Its not the riddle of the god damned sphinx. THIS IS WHY I GET 'SNIPPY' HOLY SHIT.

Somebody actually doing something like this is VERY rare.




Back then, those things were discovered through a game having an intrinsic value high enough for the player to continue an investment in the game long enough to find them on their own, the focus was internal, intrinsic, a focus on strong internal design that subtly piqued, guided and rewarded a players own intrinsic motivation to explore, to discover with additional content.


They were not part of an extrinsic checklist. Simply TELLING people that if they shit themselves in the great hall they got a 'secret' is nowhere NEAR the same calibre of design. A checklist to shit through as fast and effeciently as possible, to 'complete' the game, get all the 'points' and then instantly move on the the next game they are told they think is the next must have hyped shit. Its a skinner box. It does NOT have a good effect on design, and turning off trophies does NOT change that the game was designed with an extrinsic checklist in mind.
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You need a xanax. Wow.
 
L

Lord of Castamere

Member
I don't think the amount of trophies is important but every game should definitely have a plat. I don't think it's too much to ask a dev to throw some golds in to meet a plat requirement.

Through I'm not sure where the notion comes from that every trophy hunter likes easy lists. Difficulty isn't important, grind is. Nobody likes a grind.
 
Consumer

Consumer

Member
Lord of Castamere said:
I don't think the amount of trophies is important but every game should definitely have a plat. I don't think it's too much to ask a dev to throw some golds in to meet a plat requirement.

Through I'm not sure where the notion comes from that every trophy hunter likes easy lists. Difficulty isn't important, grind is. Nobody likes a grind.
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This. Look at games like Terminator Salvation where you basically just have gold trophies for beating each level, then the platinum after that. I'm not particularly pursuing easy plats, but I'd definitely give more games a chance if they all contained plats; they're my way of "completing" games.

Also agree about grinds. I believe plat trophies should force us to at least dip our toes into everything the game has to offer, without being too excessive with ridiculous grinds like Star Ocean, MK games, reaching max level in a tacked on MP mode, etc.
 
D

DigtialT

Member
nbnt said:
These replies are just.. This thread made me not want to play the game. Was planning to pick it up day 1 but now I won't even bother.
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If people talking about trophies on the internet is enough to make you lose interest you never really wanted to play this game in the first place.
 
M

Megabat

Member
Weirdly, this is another "you're not the target demographic" thread. If you care about trophies/achievements this much, there's no way you're going to appreciate the game. And I'll go ahead and say (wildly generalize) that you probably have trouble enjoying most books and movies as well. I mean, if you're interested in the game, by all means support it.

But don't bother playing.
 
O

Overside

Banned
Quonny said:
You need to relax. You're acting like a child. I'm done.
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Oh please. I have every right to get irritated with you repeatedly 'misinterpereting' the same damn thing, the same damn opposite way, multiple times. Don't tone police me.

A particularly wonderful 'gamer' tag team with the other obnoxious poster who thought it was just fucking adorable to also pretend I said the opposite of what I wrote.

I have every right to get irritated at having to deal with shit like this.

You don't want me harping on it? Then knock off the gamer bullshit and shoot straight.
 
Q

Quonny

Member
Overside said:
Oh please. I have every right to get irritated with you repeatedly 'misinterpereting' the same damn thing, the same damn way, multiple times.

A particularly wonderful 'gamer' tag team with the other obnoxious poster who thought it was just fucking adorable to pretend I said the opposite of what I wrote.

I have every right to get irritated at having to deal with shit like this.

You don't want me harping on it? Then knock off the gamer bullshit and shoot straight.
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What in the actual hell are you talking about? I mean, seriously. The first thing I said to you was a question. I haven't said anything else in this thread. And you come back with this snotty remark and all this "gamer" talk when I've never said the word gamer.

I'm going to ask you one thing: do you think that trophies impact the development of a game from a design perspective for a good chunk of games? Not after, or during the wrap up period, but actually while they're making the game? Do you think they go "we need a collectibles because we need another trophy" and not "we need collectibles because we want something to hunt for"?
 
Consumer

Consumer

Member
Quonny said:
What in the actual hell are you talking about? I mean, seriously. The first thing I said to you was a question. I haven't said anything else in this thread. And you come back with this snotty remark and all this "gamer" talk when I've never said the word gamer.

I'm going to ask you one thing: do you think that trophies impact the development of a game from a design perspective for a good chunk of games? Not after, or during the wrap up period, but actually while they're making the game? Do you think they go "we need a collectibles because we need another trophy" and not "we need collectibles because we want something to hunt for"?
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It's hard to find proof that part of a game was designed with trophies in mind, but I'm sure it's happened many times in both good and bad ways.

Some devs may see how compulsive trophy hunters can be, and consequently fill their game with grinds & collectibles for trophies in order to exploit these people's habits just for the sake of artificially extending their playtime.

But on the other hand, devs might use trophy hunters' compulsiveness to positively affect game design; perhaps they're inclined to include cool secrets/easter eggs in the game, include more choices & paths to take, etc to ensure that trophy hunters leave the game with a positive impression rather than a negative one derived from grinds & collectibles.

--

For the record, I'd like solid data from devs about how much resources actually go into including a trophy list. I definitely believe GAF is hyperbolizing the time/effort needed to include trophies.
 
O

Overside

Banned
Quonny said:
What in the actual hell are you talking about? I mean, seriously. The first thing I said to you was a question. I haven't said anything else in this thread. And you come back with this snotty remark and all this "gamer" talk when I've never said the word gamer.

I'm going to ask you one thing: do you think that trophies impact the development of a game from a design perspective for a good chunk of games? Not after, or during the wrap up period, but actually while they're making the game? Do you think they go "we need a collectibles because of a trophy" and not "we need collectibles because we want something to hunt for"?
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The first thing you did was a blatant and purposefully opposite interpretation of what I said. I do not see any way possible you honestly believed I said this game, that this thread is about, was designed around trophies, when I have very clearly been saying the exact opposite this entire thread. You may have thought this is terribly clever, like your fellow poster doing the exact same god damn thing. But spend some time with thousands of gators littering anything you write with the exact same 'Im just asking an innocent question... This is what you said right?' 'technique' and see how much patience for it you have left. I have zero tolerance for gator/gamer shit. Its stupid, and irritating as all hell. Knock it off.

Now I'm going to tell you... Again. Its not the trophies themselves. Its the focus on extrinsic design.

An intrinsically focused game CAN have trophies, Monster Hunter is a great example. So is souls/Born. If you haven't noticed... This kind of stuff is actually pretty criminally rare today.

An Extrinsically focused game DOESNT have to have trophies, Metroid Other M is a great (terrible) example.

Its not the trophies themselves, its the forced trophy system that 'persuades' the use of extrinsic cop-out design. You don't have to look any farther than this thread, both the op, and from the games rep themselves to see the kind of pressure they are under to comply, and that how doing so can take an intrinsically motivated design, and make it a cheaper extrinsic experience.

Disabling trophies will not suddenly make a game that was designed to be an extrinsic get the treat treadmill suddenly an intrinsically valuable game.... And the forced system actually encourages publishers to force their studios to go for the cheaper, easier, faster, extrinsic based experience. They can even turn it into bullet points. 'Check this out, you get 3 cheevos to the dollar, Value!' Just look at the op tonsee how effective that is on its target.

Its not game design anymore, its behavioral marketing.
 
D

Double Donut

Member
I will never understand why people claim to not understand why people enjoy trophies/achievements.

100%'ing games has been a lust for some gamers since the dawn of video games. Achievements add an extra layer to that sweet dopamine and feelings of accomplishment.

You might as well say "I'll never understand why people do all the sidequests in Zelda".
 
M

Mega

Banned
Jolkien said:
And you wouldn't sell it on either Xbox or Playstation. I'm not sure why everyone need to always come in drove when a trophy is mentioned how they don't understand and let us know how they hate it.
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I'm not against trophies. I have no problem with them as a neat, minor "extra" to the actual content of a game. I do take issue with obsessing over trophies and achievements, complaining that there aren't enough in a game and that their omission could be a deal breaker for someone. That mentality exhibits messed up priorities that lie far outside the gameplay the devs intended for you to enjoy when purchasing the game. Learn to enjoy the game on its own merits and feel rewarded by the in-game journey and experiences. It seems so wrong and silly to rely on constant little notifications, superficially reinforcing you're doing a good job, as reward and gratification.
 
breakfuss

breakfuss

Member
Honestly, why stop at games!? I wish books, music, television and movies had trophies too! That way I could really feel accomplished.
 
drotahorror

drotahorror

Member
Nice. Normally in these games I scour every nook and cranny (Until Dawn) trying to find collectibles due to some form of OCD I guess.

SOMA did something similar, not many achievements (steam atleast) and no collectible ones. Loved every minute of it, one of my fav games of 2015. I was honestly surprised by that game considering I disliked the Amnesia/Penumbra series'.

I will say that not having a Platinum trophy can possibly stop a few people from buying the game. I remember seeing on some of those trophy forums that people wouldn't be buying Galak-Z even if they wanted it because it had no Platinum.

So there are a select few out there who really care about Platinum trophies.
 
J

Joni

Member
SolidusDave said:
I thought trophies roughly correlate with price/production values and content of the game?
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Even if they ever were, they don't anymore. It is purely a developer decision.

Consumer said:
This. Look at games like Terminator Salvation where you basically just have gold trophies for beating each level, then the platinum after that. I'm not explicitly pursuing easy plats, but I'd definitely give more games a chance if they all contained plats; they're my way of "completing" games.
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Indeed. It is my way to 'finish up' games as well.
 
corrosivefrost

corrosivefrost

Member
jon bones said:
it's up to the developer how many trophies they want in the game

Sony is right not to get in the way of that too much

really not a big deal
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Not entirely.

This has probably already been covered, but I'm going to reply anyway. :D

I believe Sony gives the game a score based on content and the developer can use that score to decide the makeup of the trophies for the game. This is why all games have some sort of trophies and games that shun trophies on other platforms, such as Don't Starve (11 trophies on PSN, 0 on Steam) and The Witness (14 trophies on PSN, 2 achievements on Steam) have a minimalist amount of trophies; I know Klei wanted to do 0, but the money was too good, so they sold out and added them (but refuse to port them to the Steam version despite requests from owners)... I think Jonathan Blow wanted to have the same 2 in The Witness, but he didn't really have that choice based on the score Sony had given his game.

Now back to the OPs complaint:

As far as Firewatch goes, it probably got a "minimal" amount of trophies because it's a $20 downloadable game and ended up with a choice of trophy sets much like those Futurlab polled the community about when they were creating the trophies for Velocity Ultra. (See here: http://www.futurlab.co.uk/velocity-ultra-trophies-what-do-you-want.html)

In fact, the trophy makeup of Firewatch is consistent with the lowest number of trophies Futurlab could have put in Velocity Ultra. This means the dev just opted to have a lower trophy count with mostly gold trophies instead of a higher count with mostly bronze trophies.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Even if people want to go into trophy hoarding mode, can they not be thankful for Golds? Who needs bronzes for fussy things when they'll hand you something that big? I both very serious and not remotely serious. Would these people rather there be 20 bronzes and 1 gold than 3 golds? Isn't that technically more tedious and annoying work in the hunt for trophy rankings? So isn't this game actually doing them a favor? I'm confused.

Frankly it's a trophy format I wish we could simplify down to. The style of "you reached X in the game" for a smaller title is fine. It's a record that you did it, you can look back upon it later as something you did, you can think fondly of your time with the game when you look at it and you ever get a screenshot of the moment it popped. That there's a record that I played it at all is enough for me. Am I just not understanding what these people are after? Not all should, nor do all games need these sorta of things, and no game should ever have to have to change its identity in even the tiniest way to appease people who demand more frequent and numerous reminders of their self-proclaimed gaming awesomeness.
 
H

Hypron

Member
It annoys me that Sony didn't mandate for every game to have a platinum trophy. It could have been used as a convenient count of how many games you've completed. At the moment AAA games almost always have one but whether a smaller game, indie game or standalone DLC has one is completely arbitrary. Some indie games have trophies that are very challenging and/or time-consuming yet don't have a platinum trophy. It's silly.
 
S

SolidusDave

Member
Joni said:
Even if they ever were, they don't anymore. It is purely a developer decision.
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I guess I remember something that was said during the PS3 days, at least back then there had to be something like this in place as there virtually were no PSN games with a Platinum trophy (or large trophy list) in the first years. Can't be a coincidence.

Though even now I can't think of many "small" titles that have one (and they also have a notable smaller trophy list in terms of total "exp" points). Like, does any of those mobile port games have them?
Also how would one explain The Witness having more trophies on PS4 than on Steam if it was purely a developer decision? And not a small one either with all those Gold trophies. There still must be some minimum total points requirements or at least strongly encouraged guidelines for which tier of game which tier of trophy sets are suited.


What about feature parity, is a game allowed to have more trophies on XB1 than on PS4 and vice versa? That could also factor in. I don't think there exists any extreme stuff either like only a single trophy for a game or 200 trophies to unlock, which you would expect to happen if it was completely open...
 
H

Hanmik

Member
hmmm... what a strange thread this became.. I normally don't read or make trophy threads, so I had no idea this is how a trophy thread goes down.

I know my OP was very onesided and hard on one game.. but it seems most people actually miss the point of the thread. So let my try to explain better,

--------------------------------
Most people think trophies and achievements are a thing from this millennium. But they are wrong... back in 1982 Activision introduced a system called "Patches". Back then a game came with a physical manual, and in some manuals the developers instructed the players to do something particular. That could be getting a highscore or complete a game in a special way, then you had to take a photo of your acvhievement and send it to an address. Then they would send you a real badge of approval.
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this was an iron-on badge that you could wear on your clothes. Back then people displayed their achievements in public.. ;o) Even some amiga games back in the 90's had some bonus parts that act just like achievements and trophies.
-Complete a bonus level with the last digit of the timer set to "3".
-Collect four pods on the run without any new balls being made.
-Collect the last blue pod first to completely fail a bonus level.
-Complete level one without ever using the screen wrap.
-Complete any level without rotating to the right.
Click to expand...
So as you can see this isn't something new or game breaking when it comes to gaming.
But back then gaming was considered very niche and uncool, but when gaming became more popular those stuff resurfaced and became popular again.

Back in 2005 Microsoft introduced the first "platform" system for achievements, gamerscore. It was very well liked among gamers, so much that Microsoft extended it to windows in 2007.
Valve quickly adopted a similar system for Steam the same year. And because of popular demand Sony did the same for Playstation 3. They patched in the trophy system via a firmware update.
Sony's system was a mess at the beginning.Lots of games had no trophies, and people wanted trophies support for older games. But after some changes the system is in place over 3 different consoles. Playstation 3, Vita and Playstation 4 all have the same system, that gives players trophies over all systems on the same account.

Today most gaming systems have a form of achievement/trophy system. Android, iOs, Kindle (Gamercirle) and more.. even stuff that isn't game related has some kind of "reward system", like training apps.

So rewards on a platform is a normal thing today, like it or not, it is here to stay and evolve in one way or another.

When Final Fantasy 7 was announced for PS4, many people here on the site said "Yes now I can play the game with Trophies". When the Nathan Drake Collection was announced people said "Yes now I can get a second platinum trophy for the games".. just read the OT for the games I just mentioned. So many posts talk about trophies and how many they have and still miss in the games. Trophies are a part of gaming today.. even old games. But if you don't like it, disable it.

Some people here wish for the systems to dissappear completely.. I really can't think of a single reason why that is a wish. All these rewards systems can be disabled so that you never have to be bothered by them, in most cases you can disable them so that it looks like they don't even exist. The systems are made so that the users who like them can activate them and people who are bothered by them can disable them.
Some say it interferes with the way developers program games.. ehhh how..? I have yet to see a game that is solely developed because of "rewards", and I know of no game that has changed the way it was developed because of the "rewards". Maybe I'm wrong, but then please tell me what games I'm missing here..?

As I see it, the developers have some system tools they can use to implement the "rewards" in their games. They are not forced to design a game so that the "rewards" are a part of it, they just need to finish the game, and then think of how to make the "rewards" a part of their game experience. Again this is just my view, this might be a very naive way of thought.

As I have shown you the platforms all have some kind of "reward" system, it's mostly mandatory and has been part of these systems for many years.
And now we end where this thread originated.

Why can't Sony make their Trophy system better for the people who like it? why not make it more "streamlined" so that all games follow the same kind of thought? what I (and other players) want is a more consistent trophy system, where every game has the same rule for trophies. I know that they have a minimum number of "points" developers have to distribute in a game, but this also means they have a maximum. This is why we have games with 5 trophies and games with 50+ trophies. It just feels way to inconsistent, I would much rather prefer a system like back on the X360 where smaller games had to have 500 points and bigger games 1000 points. As it is now games can have anywhere between 5 or 100 trophies on Playstation consoles.

The "rewards" systems aren't hurting anyone, if you don't like them disable them. But please don't come in here and tell people who like them (in one way or another), that they are crazy for liking a reward for an activity in a game. There really is no reason for that.. Many people have already explained why they like the systems, there are lots of reasons why people go for trophies/achievements in games, not everyone has to be a "trophy-hunter" just because they like the system.

I only used Firewatch as a means to display the inconsistency in Sony's trophy system, the game will surely be a great game (I have no doubt about that), but the game also shows how inconsistent the trophy system is.
 
mekes

mekes

Member
I hate collectible and filler trophies. I don't want acknowledgement for starting the game, for taking a picture, for finding all of the medals or secret files. I don't want a trophy for shooting 15 people to the point of death and finishing them off with a melee move.

If all of the trophies in this game are tied to the completion of the story, that's perfect for me.
 
L

Luq

Member
lol, are we srsly complaning about trophies now?

isn't having fun and beating the game for yourself enough? u need some popups to make you satisfied with the game? i mean come on people... I get the idea of collecting something etc, but it's not like you have ZERO there. You are still getting your shinny gold just without spending 1000 hours inside the game, what's there to complain?

and the fact that you think it's up to Sony makes it even more cringy...
 
K

kyser73

Member
breakfuss said:
Honestly, why stop at games!? I wish books, music, television and movies had trophies too! That way I could really feel accomplished.
Click to expand...

You could have a 'platinum classics' range of really long/hard/boring classical literature!

It'd incentivise me to re-read The Cantebury Tales, I can tell you
/s

OT - I don't really mind trophies & I get why people like them, but I think the OP is wrong in their expectation of them in games.

Plus - seeing people parrot about trophies in a game like Firewatch makes me sad the same way it did for Journey.
 
J

Joni

Member
SolidusDave said:
I guess I remember something that was said during the PS3 days, at least back then there had to be something like this in place as there virtually were no PSN games with a Platinum trophy (or large trophy list) in the first years. Can't be a coincidence.
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I don't know if it was policy or coincidence back then, but it is not like that anymore. That is the only thing I can say. It could be just related to the Xbox 360 back then, where games already had 250 points so developers just copied that. I do know Alien Breed Evolution was one of the early titles where I was amazed it had a platinum.


SolidusDave said:
Also how would one explain The Witness having more trophies on PS4 than on Steam if it was purely a developer decision? And not a small one either with all those Gold trophies. There still must be some minimum total points requirements or at least strongly encouraged guidelines for which tier of game which tier of trophy sets are suited.
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I meant the developer decision is between a small and a big list, unlike Xbox 360 where XBLA was small list and retail was big list. Small list is about 300 points, big list is about 1250. Developers have said on GAF that which category you do pick, is up to you. The Lumines Vita guy also said that.

SolidusDave said:
What about feature parity, is a game allowed to have more trophies on XB1 than on PS4 and vice versa? That could also factor in. I don't think there exists any extreme stuff either like only a single trophy for a game or 200 trophies to unlock, which you would expect to happen if it was completely open...
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It is not completely open, but the strict distinction small/big game you were making doesn't exist (anymore at least). That is developer choice, not implied by budget. There is also no restriction between MS and Sony abouy a game having more Trophies on one than on the other.
 
T

Transistor

Banned
I've platinumed a few games, but when I look back at it, I ask myself "why"? I mean, I don't hate trophies. I like the little ding when I do something cool. But do I actively seek them anymore? Nope. It turns a fun game into a job when I have to do that. What I did likenos trophies that actually did things. I remember in FFXIII, when you got certain trophies, it would unlock XMB themes. Something like that would be a cool incentive, rather than an arbitrarily increasing "score"
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
I don't think the amount is a problem, considering Everybody's Gone to the Rapture had 19 trophies, and many of them involved tedious repetition or standing still. They actually made me feel like they were making fun of the whole trophy thing.
 
M

MatrixMan.EXE

Member
Double Donut said:
I will never understand why people claim to not understand why people enjoy trophies/achievements.

100%'ing games has been a lust for some gamers since the dawn of video games. Achievements add an extra layer to that sweet dopamine and feelings of accomplishment.

You might as well say "I'll never understand why people do all the sidequests in Zelda".
Click to expand...

Pretty much. Nothing wrong with it. That said, I think OP is being a bit over dramatic. Less trophies is better than none.
 
T

The Libertine

Member
It has already been mentioned in this thread, but there is a really good interview on the most recent episode of the Playstation Blogcast, where the Campo Santo guys discuss the integration of trophies. From what I remember, being a very story driven game, I don't think they wanted that flow disrupted by a "oooh look another thing to collect".

I like trophies, but it doesn't put me off a game if the trophy list is like this, it is all very dependent on what type of game it is, however I do find it confusing as to what games get a platinum and which don't, there doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
The Libertine said:
It has already been mentioned in this thread, but there is a really good interview on the most recent episode of the Playstation Blogcast, where the Campo Santo guys discuss the integration of trophies. From what I remember, being a very story driven game, I don't think they wanted that flow disrupted by a "oooh look another thing to collect".

I like trophies, but it doesn't put me off a game if the trophy list is like this, it is all very dependent on what type of game it is, however I do find it confusing as to what games get a platinum and which don't, there doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.
Click to expand...

Sometimes that's a good approach, like what ND did with TLOU.
 
J

Joni

Member
Hanmik said:
It just feels way to inconsistent, I would much rather prefer a system like back on the X360 where smaller games had to have 500 points and bigger games 1000 points. As it is now games can have anywhere between 5 or 100 trophies on Playstation consoles.
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It is like that on the PlayStation platform. 'Small' games have about 300 points, 'big' games have about 1250. If you calculate it, Firewatch is a bit higher than 300. It is a completely standard game. As for the 100 Trophies, DLC is of course still separate. The maximum amount you could have in just a base game, is one Platinum and about 70 bronze Trophies. But it would still be a standard size game.
 
Q

Quonny

Member
Overside said:
The first thing you did was a blatant and purposefully opposite interpretation of what I said. I do not see any way possible you honestly believed I said this game, that this thread is about, was designed around trophies, when I have very clearly been saying the exact opposite this entire thread. You may have thought this is terribly clever, like your fellow poster doing the exact same god damn thing. But spend some time with thousands of gators littering anything you write with the exact same 'Im just asking an innocent question... This is what you said right?' 'technique' and see how much patience for it you have left. I have zero tolerance for gator/gamer shit. Its stupid, and irritating as all hell. Knock it off.
Click to expand...

First off, I'm not using any technique. In your first post you talked about two different approaches and then used "they", hence the confusion. Not everyone is out to get you. The sooner you understand that, the better. Seriously, you weren't as clear as you think you were. This isn't an attack. This isn't my trying to make you look bad. I was legitimately confused about what you were saying.

Now that I know what you're talking about, you're upset with gamer mentality more than developer mentality. Which is fine, but not what I was talking about or what I thought you were talking about. Again, it's fine, but this conversation is over because we're not really talking about the same thing. We never were, because I was confused. No one's wrong. No one is stupid or trying to make the other look bad.
 
E

erotic grandpa

Member
The sooner you liberate yourself from the compulsion to get every achievement/trophy, the better you'll feel. Trust me.

I think trophies and achievements are fine, but the notion that there needs to be a particular number is absurd.

I realized trophies and achievements were not for me coincidentally around the release of Double Dragon Neon - that 1 point achievement got a huge laugh out of me.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
I'm on a quest right now to get to level 20 trophy score. It's some arbitrary number, it's meaningless, but I like that number, so I'm all about trophy hunting atm..but sometimes you know, I just turn that thing off, and not be bothered with it. 2 cool ways of playing games, I have an appreciation for both, but let the devs do what they want to.
 
Nemesis_

Nemesis_

Member
I love trophies and achievements but if the developer doesn't want this shit popping up and for you to "experience" the game without altering your game play to get them then it's their right I guess?
 
F

Family Fry

Member
People really need to remember there is a difference between 100% completion of a game and 100% completion of achievements/trophies.

Most of the time they are in no ways connected.

Rise of the Tomb Raider told me I was 100% complete on main title/load screen, my achievement score said otherwise. Game was traded in, no chance in hell I'm going around moping up kill achievements.
I 100% the game.
 
K

KyleCross

Member
So, after reading the first page am I safe to assume this whole thread is people shaming trophies/achievements even tho they're an honest part of modern gaming and has just as much of a point as any other aspect of a game but people refuse to believe so cause they were only introduced 10 years ago?
 
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