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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources

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Z

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
HBM is off the table I would assume, would be cool though if it had an 8gb HBM chip in there, that truly would be cutting edge. Like an r9 Nano with the new HBM stacks. My guess is something like an r9 370 /m385x line equivalent, which would compare nicely with PS4. An R9 380 or full tonga m395x equivalent with 8gb of gddr5 would be awesome, but would seemily be too pricey. Interestingly the m385x has just shown up in Lenovo's Y700 budget gaming laptop that has an FX8800p APU. This has been on sale at Best Buy for as low as $700.

I wonder if maybe NX home console could have a Carrizo 8800P APU variant. When you consider a different form factor, lack of screen, etc. Would certainly crush the PS4 and Xbox Jaguar cores, and gpu would be pretty much PS4 level.
 
F

Fourth Storm

Member
Thraktor said:
Yeah, to be honest I'd just go with GDDR5 for the home console if I were Nintendo. I feel that goal no. 3 in my post above yours points towards a single memory pool being the best choice for both devices. If you have two devices with split pools, then I can imagine optimising around each device's memory systems being an issue that gets in the way of simple multi-device development. That said, Nintendo do love their low-latency memory, but there's not really any good option open for them in that regard.

As Blu pointed out previously, though, it would be possible for Nintendo to use the same LPDDR4 modules across both devices (it offers substantially better bandwidth per-chip than DDR4). In theory four 2GB SK Hynix LPDDR4 modules could give them 119GB/s, and then they could use one or two of the same modules in the handheld. It keeps procurement simple, allows them to get the best possible price, and just about hits the necessary performance targets. Not necessarily cheap, though.
Click to expand...

Right, the unknown factor with LPDDR4 cost made me think about GDDR5 once more. Plus, to get the type of bandwidth you talk about, I believe they'd need a 256-bit bus. They could do it, but it would take a massive philosophy shift in their hardware team. On the other hand, they did stick GDDR3 on Wii (a single chip, but it's there). I know Wii U definitely has Micron as a supplier, but I feel like I heard that they sourced Samsung as well. Looking through various teardowns, Nintendo sourced Micron, Samsung, and Hynix for Wii U's DDR3. Either way, the costs and power consumption for 8GB of the stuff is probably not what it was blown up to be a few years back.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/micron-begins-shipping-its-first-20-nm-gddr5-dram-chips-485569.shtml
10k said:
Only 100GB/s? PS4 does 176. Going with a 256-bit bus would be awesome.
Click to expand...

AMD have advanced their compression tech over PS4 era GPUs so that bandwidth requirements are somewhat less. At the same time, I'm not expecting it to match PS4 in horsepower. The tip top of my expectations is a Polaris part which sits comfortably between Xbone and PS4.
 
T

The_Lump

Banned
ZOONAMI said:
HBM is off the table I would assume, would be cool though if it had an 8gb HBM chip in there, that truly would be cutting edge.
Click to expand...

It's only off the table in the sense that Nintendo historically don't usually go for hardware which isn't tried and tested. HBM1 has been used by AMD, but not in an APU yet. HBM2 could easily outstrip PS4 bandwidth wise, but that's an even bigger leap for Nintendo to take.
 
T

Thraktor

Member
tronic307 said:
cover_678x452.PNG

a53-comp_575px.PNG

There are many mentions of the ARM A53 here but wouldn't the A35 be more suitable for a handheld?
Click to expand...

The A35 seems to be targeted at lower power envelopes than even mobiles/handhelds. Think smart watches and so forth. A53 cores should be able to reach a decent clock speed even at 28nm in a handheld, so there's no real reason to switch them out for ultra-low power cores.

Fourth Storm said:
Right, the unknown factor with LPDDR4 cost made me think about GDDR5 once more. Plus, to get the type of bandwidth you talk about, I believe they'd need a 256-bit bus. They could do it, but it would take a massive philosophy shift in their hardware team. On the other hand, they did stick GDDR3 on Wii (a single chip, but it's there). I know Wii U definitely has Micron as a supplier, but I feel like I heard that they sourced Samsung as well. Looking through various teardowns, Nintendo sourced Micron, Samsung, and Hynix for Wii U's DDR3. Either way, the costs and power consumption for 8GB of the stuff is probably not what it was blown up to be a few years back.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/micron-begins-shipping-its-first-20-nm-gddr5-dram-chips-485569.shtml
Click to expand...

Yes, they would need a 256 bit bus, but keep in mind that Nintendo have a new unified hardware division now, and the 3DS uses a 128-bit memory interface, which is about as high as you can get in a handheld, so it would appear that half of their new team is perfectly happy with a wide memory bus.

Nintendo, like most companies, will source RAM from all of the main three suppliers if they can, as it helps them ensure a steady supply and consistently good price. At the moment SK Hynix is the only manufacturer advertising 3733 MT/s LPDDR4, although they could just use 3200 MT/s and still get pretty good bandwidth while saving a bit of money. Samsung doesn't currently advertise 2GB LPDDR4 with a 64 bit interface, but Nintendo would provide enough demand to get them to start producing it if they're actually using it in both devices. Ditto with Micron.
 
Pokemaniac

Pokemaniac

Member
Thraktor said:
I don't think there is that big a difference. For one thing, it's entirely plausible that Nintendo could release a $200 handheld that's actually more powerful than the Wii U, so it would have no problem from a technical perspective playing it at 540p. From a gameplay perspective, I don't see how Zelda would work any worse on a handheld than a console. There's nothing in the games which inherently require a resolution higher than 540p, and in fact 540p is a higher resolution than any Zelda game has been originally released in thus far. Both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask have been very successful and show that Nintendo has both the desire and the financial incentive to bring full Zelda titles to their handhelds. They even brought Xenoblade Chronicles to the new 3DS, and with XCX there's again nothing which would prevent it from being playable on a suitably powerful handheld (except perhaps those tiny fonts).

More importantly, though, Nintendo's home consoles have varied from around 20% to around 40% of their total hardware sales. It doesn't make sense to pour a huge budget into a game like Zelda or Xenoblade and then cut off 60-80% of your audience because it doesn't "feel like" a handheld game.
Click to expand...

My point about the console Zeldas was less about Zelda Wii U, and more about going forward. Of course, a properly capable handheld could handle the Wii U iterations of those games, but what I'm thinking about is more the future iterations of both of those. Games like Xenoblade, Zelda, or Pikmin could potentially end up limited if their next iterations still have to run on hardware with similar power to Wii U.

Also, have you seen the HUD in the original Xenoblade. That thing took up a ton of the screen. Especially with the vision thing open.
 
S

Scum

Junior Member
So long as NCL ditch that old ass, archaic Gamecube era PPC architecture, then it's all good. That's all I'm hoping for.
 
E

ErrorMacro

Member
KingSnake said:
I see that the discussion went again in the direction of few common games and the rest released separately for the handheld and console. I shiver at the thought of future NX droughts. That would be Nintendo learning nothing (3ds and Wii U games already share assets).
Click to expand...

I think best case scenario would be that the console runs every handheld game, and has exclusives that the handheld can't run. This way, the handheld has as advantage portability and lower price, while the console has as advantage a larger pool of games and also better performance. I'm not sure that is feasible, though.
 
Pokemaniac

Pokemaniac

Member
ErrorMacro said:
I think best case scenario would be that the console runs every handheld game, and has exclusives that the handheld can't run. This way, the handheld has as advantage portability and lower price, while the console has as advantage a larger pool of games and also better performance. I'm not sure that is feasible, though.
Click to expand...

That's more or less the model Apple uses with their iPhones and iPads. Main difference is that the power gap has the potential to be much bigger since the console doesn't have to worry about a battery.
 
J

James Scott

Banned
ErrorMacro said:
I think best case scenario would be that the console runs every handheld game, and has exclusives that the handheld can't run. This way, the handheld has as advantage portability and lower price, while the console has as advantage a larger pool of games and also better performance. I'm not sure that is feasible, though.
Click to expand...
Yep. This would mean that Nintendo likely would prefer if most people bought the console, but the handheld market will likely sell very well in the virtue that it's cheaper.
I'm hoping that it would allow Nintendo to create a more advanced console even if it's more expensive in order to cater to a larger audience.
Those that just want a base Nintendo experience can get the handheld and enjoy that and those that want Nintentendo to be their main console/experience could get the console for a high end experience
 
H

-Horizon-

Member
ZOONAMI said:
Would people buy a $500 console & handheld bundle? Like beyond just the hardcore ninty fans?
Click to expand...

Beyond the hardcore fans? Nope. Not unless they can somehow get that Wii lightning in a bottle again but that is unlikely. And that price would ensure that doesn't happen.
 
J

Josh5890

Member
ZOONAMI said:
Would people buy a $500 console & handheld bundle? Like beyond just the hardcore ninty fans?
Click to expand...

Well, if the handheld is $200 and the console is $300 and they launch on the same day I'm most likely buying both. I don't see a problem with a bundle if they offer both separately. The bundle would have to include a game or two though to get people on board with both at launch.
 
D

dangeraaron10

Unconfirmed Member
I'm of the mind that the handheld and console MUST be sold separately. Sure, absolutely make shared library a thing, but that doesn't mean the two machines need to come together. Especially since there are quite a few interested in only the handheld or only the console.
 
T

Trevelyan9999

Banned
I am sharing this with you guys as a rumor, but I happen to know that this info is true/correct:
http://www.nintengen.com/2016/02/nintendo-nx-insider-dev-kit-engine.html


  • Unnamed Developer says their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 and looks very impressive graphically.
  • The Developer said that Dev Kits are limited supply and a larger number of developers wanting Dev Kits will get an SDK so they can prep their titles for release on NX.
  • The Developer’s Nintendo Account Manager stated that Unity and Unreal Engine 4 will both be ready in time for when developers outside of key partners are able to purchase dev-kits of their own.
  • The Developer states that since their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 already, this is very promising news and are happy that Nintendo has at least taken the initiative in this regard of engine support out of the gate.
  • The Developer seems to think that they have a good chance of getting an actual dev kit and not just an SDK.
The developer went on to inform that he actually did not break any NDA that he was under by telling this information. The release date of the Dev Kits for all developers remains under NDA and the specs of the Dev Kit are still hidden
 
J

Josh5890

Member
Trevelyan9999 said:
I am sharing this with you guys as a rumor, but I happen to know that this info is true/correct:
http://www.nintengen.com/2016/02/nintendo-nx-insider-dev-kit-engine.html


  • Unnamed Developer says their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 and looks very impressive graphically.
  • The Developer said that Dev Kits are limited supply and a larger number of developers wanting Dev Kits will get an SDK so they can prep their titles for release on NX.
  • The Developer’s Nintendo Account Manager stated that Unity and Unreal Engine 4 will both be ready in time for when developers outside of key partners are able to purchase dev-kits of their own.
  • The Developer states that since their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 already, this is very promising news and are happy that Nintendo has at least taken the initiative in this regard of engine support out of the gate.
  • The Developer seems to think that they have a good chance of getting an actual dev kit and not just an SDK.
The developer went on to inform that he actually did not break any NDA that he was under by telling this information. The release date of the Dev Kits for all developers remains under NDA and the specs of the Dev Kit are still hidden
Click to expand...

This sounds promising. Hopefully most developers are willing to get dev kits to bring their games to the NX early.
 
M

Maniel

Banned
Trevelyan9999 said:
I am sharing this with you guys as a rumor, but I happen to know that this info is true/correct:
http://www.nintengen.com/2016/02/nintendo-nx-insider-dev-kit-engine.html


  • Unnamed Developer says their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 and looks very impressive graphically.
  • The Developer said that Dev Kits are limited supply and a larger number of developers wanting Dev Kits will get an SDK so they can prep their titles for release on NX.
  • The Developer’s Nintendo Account Manager stated that Unity and Unreal Engine 4 will both be ready in time for when developers outside of key partners are able to purchase dev-kits of their own.
  • The Developer states that since their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 already, this is very promising news and are happy that Nintendo has at least taken the initiative in this regard of engine support out of the gate.
  • The Developer seems to think that they have a good chance of getting an actual dev kit and not just an SDK.
The developer went on to inform that he actually did not break any NDA that he was under by telling this information. The release date of the Dev Kits for all developers remains under NDA and the specs of the Dev Kit are still hidden
Click to expand...

If true then it is pretty likely that NX will at least get cash grab, low effort ports for some games. If it sells well we could see more real support.
 
M

Mariolee

Member
Trevelyan9999 said:
I am sharing this with you guys as a rumor, but I happen to know that this info is true/correct:
http://www.nintengen.com/2016/02/nintendo-nx-insider-dev-kit-engine.html


  • Unnamed Developer says their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 and looks very impressive graphically.
  • The Developer said that Dev Kits are limited supply and a larger number of developers wanting Dev Kits will get an SDK so they can prep their titles for release on NX.
  • The Developer’s Nintendo Account Manager stated that Unity and Unreal Engine 4 will both be ready in time for when developers outside of key partners are able to purchase dev-kits of their own.
  • The Developer states that since their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 already, this is very promising news and are happy that Nintendo has at least taken the initiative in this regard of engine support out of the gate.
  • The Developer seems to think that they have a good chance of getting an actual dev kit and not just an SDK.
The developer went on to inform that he actually did not break any NDA that he was under by telling this information. The release date of the Dev Kits for all developers remains under NDA and the specs of the Dev Kit are still hidden
Click to expand...

Sounds promising, but the general policy is we need a mod to check you out.
 
1

10k

Banned
Trevelyan9999 said:
I am sharing this with you guys as a rumor, but I happen to know that this info is true/correct:
http://www.nintengen.com/2016/02/nintendo-nx-insider-dev-kit-engine.html


  • Unnamed Developer says their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 and looks very impressive graphically.
  • The Developer said that Dev Kits are limited supply and a larger number of developers wanting Dev Kits will get an SDK so they can prep their titles for release on NX.
  • The Developer’s Nintendo Account Manager stated that Unity and Unreal Engine 4 will both be ready in time for when developers outside of key partners are able to purchase dev-kits of their own.
  • The Developer states that since their game is running on Unreal Engine 4 already, this is very promising news and are happy that Nintendo has at least taken the initiative in this regard of engine support out of the gate.
  • The Developer seems to think that they have a good chance of getting an actual dev kit and not just an SDK.
The developer went on to inform that he actually did not break any NDA that he was under by telling this information. The release date of the Dev Kits for all developers remains under NDA and the specs of the Dev Kit are still hidden
Click to expand...
Here we go. Woo boy.

Wait, I thought SDK's were dev kits? Also, what's the minimum hardware unreal engine 4 needs? Can a handheld run that?

With the DQXI "announcement" and Project Elea developers also saying UE4 is probably coming to NX, plus unity support and your post, it's looking like UE4 is confirmed for NX. At least on the console side.
 
R

Regiruler

Member
beril said:
If they do keep the 3D screen they'll need it for eyetracking though
Click to expand...
People vastly overrate this feature. The jittering just makes the 3D worse.

Cameras are the one feature I'd be ok with them cutting, but it would make me concerned regarding backwards compatibility.
 
L

LewieP

Member
Sounds highly plausible to me, especially given the success Epic have had in courting Japanese publishers with UE4.

I'd assume that comprehensive support for UE4 and Unity would be for both the home console and handheld, given all the stuff Nintendo have said about NX so far. Pretty exciting.
 
S

Spyder_Monkey

Banned
Alistair Roo said:
Unreal 4 is obvious?
Click to expand...

If it were anybody but Nintendo, of course. But c'mon Unreal 4 is a common tool easily accessible for free* among game developers that can support anything from mobile phones to consoles to PCs to whatever weird thing Nvidia makes. I would be surprised if the NX doesn't support it.

*all proceeds go to Epic Games
 
T

Trevelyan9999

Banned
10k said:
If I remember correctly your sources name isn't needed but the mod will need his credentials or proof of his employment or how he'd know this.
Click to expand...

That should be fine, the developer just wants his privacy honored by me since if I revealed who he is (as you guys know) any chance of getting more information out of him is gone forever. I am not under an NDA yet myself but it is looking like I will be soon.

I am off to sleep soon so I can respond to any MOD requests tomorrow. Thanks guys
 
P

Peru

Member
Any positive leaks are great. And any leaks at all are great, because it starts the train rolling.

Personally I haven't been so sure the system will be more powerful than the Wii U so to hear signs of the contrary is good.

It's interesting that none of the developer leaks so far have said anything about whether it's handheld or console. Is it really just one software developing process? Or not. What if the handheld can only play heavier games if at home, connected to the console. Or online, to a cloud. Lol. I'm getting crazy thinking about this thing, but good to see it's solidly powerful.
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
How would UE4 work on the NX Handheld (if the shared platform theory pans out)? Would it automatically go to Mobile Mode?
 
C

CockJohnson

Banned
10k said:
Here we go. Woo boy.

Wait, I thought SDK's were dev kits? Also, what's the minimum hardware unreal engine 4 needs? Can a handheld run that?

With the DQXI "announcement" and Project Elea developers also saying UE4 is probably coming to NX, plus unity support and your post, it's looking like UE4 is confirmed for NX. At least on the console side.
Click to expand...

SDKs are to emulators as Dev Kits are to consoles.
 
N

NippleViking

Banned
ZOONAMI said:
Would people buy a $500 console & handheld bundle? Like beyond just the hardcore ninty fans?
Click to expand...

They'd have to offer a standalone of each as well of course, but I think a bundle could do very well. Millions paid $499 for an Xbone w/ Kinect (myself included); reductively, that's $500 for a home-console and a flashy camera apparatus. I imagine more people - and not just the hardcore market - would jump on a bundle if it was a worthwhile deal. A $199 handheld, $299 home console, $499 handheld + home-console + game sku would do well.
 
Pokemaniac

Pokemaniac

Member
10k said:
Here we go. Woo boy.

Wait, I thought SDK's were dev kits? Also, what's the minimum hardware unreal engine 4 needs? Can a handheld run that?

With the DQXI "announcement" and Project Elea developers also saying UE4 is probably coming to NX, plus unity support and your post, it's looking like UE4 is confirmed for NX. At least on the console side.
Click to expand...

SDK in this context refers to all the software tools, header files, and such for developing software for the platform.

Technically, you could probably include the hardware dev kits as well under the term, but it is somewhat of a separate entity.
 
T

thefro

Member
yoonshik said:
I don't think so.

We've seen iOS games running on the UE4. You can run UE4 pretty much on every device.

We need to know what he means by "very impressive graphically".
Click to expand...

There's basically only three scenarios left at this point if the rumor is true:
- Nintendo's NX console is releasing this year and is at least ~= to the XB1 in power. This allows for fairly easy ports of current-gen games to the system. Only a limited number of employees of Western third parties need access to the SDK/hardware dev kits at this point to port games, hence no leaks.
- NX portable hardware is actually what's hitting this year, console to follow in 2017. NX portable launches with primarily Japanese 3rd party support. Publishers have a whole year+ to work on console games with dev kits after information is revealed at E3.
- NX console is releasing this year and will have virtually no more Western third party support over what Wii U is currently getting as it's still under-powered and not enough people have had access to kits for long enough to make games from the ground up for the system.
 
P

Peru

Member
I think even if it's powered on par with the XB1 we won't get more than ports in the launch window and then the odd money hatted release afterwards. It's not the place for western AAA third parties.
 
H

Hermii

Member
Peru said:
I think even if it's powered on par with the XB1 we won't get more than ports in the launch window and then the odd money hatted release afterwards. It's not the place for western AAA third parties.
Click to expand...
We will probably get some mid/ low budget games that's built around the unique controls.
 
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