More Unbreakable Subzero problems: I'm trying out some of his more damaging combos (I have to, because if I want to get better with this character I need to get the damage the other characters are afforded for less) and a lot of peeps online says that (JIP back 1, 2 *frozen aura* back 1,2 *freeze* 2,4,2 dash 1 dash 1,2,3 *slide*) is a great BnB to learn. I agree, but I can't seem to hit the first part consistently, namely back 1,2 into frozen aura into back 1,2. It just doesn't combo IMO without meterburning it. Am I miss timing it? Is the JIP necessary? Back 1,2 should allow a free aura, right?

Click to expand...

???

weepy said:

More Unbreakable Subzero problems: I'm trying out some of his more damaging combos (I have to, because if I want to get better with this character I need to get the damage the other characters are afforded for less) and a lot of peeps online says that (JIP back 1, 2 *frozen aura* back 1,2 *freeze* 2,4,2 dash 1 dash 1,2,3 *slide*) is a great BnB to learn. I agree, but I can't seem to hit the first part consistently, namely back 1,2 into frozen aura into back 1,2. It just doesn't combo IMO without meterburning it. Am I miss timing it? Is the JIP necessary? Back 1,2 should allow a free aura, right?

Click to expand...

You don't need the jump punch or to EX the move. You just have to do it very fast.

Do not wait at all. If you see Sub-Zero go into the Ice Aura animation you're too late. Mash it out as fast as possible.

Hey guys I mentioned in a previous post that I was creating a YouTube series to help fellow scrubs learn the lingo and nuances of fighting games, something I wish was out when I was getting into the genre. Its called The Fighting Game Dictionary and my goal is to eventually cover specific tutorials (from basic to advanced) and much more but for now the first two episodes are pretty basic, just some simple skits to get the terms across.


If your interested you can watch the first two episodes below. I'd appreciate any impressions (harsh or positive) immensely! Definitely still fleshing out the series and could use some suggestions/comments to make it better!

What Does Salty Mean?
What Does Bodied Mean?

Great match right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ST6ZK7Tfo4 I get destroyed but I think it can be instructive with some pointers.

I seemed to have hit a wall now that I am in Bronze. I can't get close to most characters to throw them and they are better at blocking. I've tried upping my defense but that only goes so far. I can win enough to stay in Bronze but right now I'm just floating around that 600-700 area (lp)

Anyone playing SFV understand how to do Laura's V-Reversal? Still having trouble.

Super Moop said:

Anyone playing SFV understand how to do Laura's V-Reversal? Still having trouble.

Click to expand...

You press towards + all three punch buttons at the same time while in blockstun.

Retro4ever said:

I seemed to have hit a wall now that I am in Bronze. I can't get close to most characters to throw them and they are better at blocking. I've tried upping my defense but that only goes so far. I can win enough to stay in Bronze but right now I'm just floating around that 600-700 area (lp)

Click to expand...

I watched some of your replays, and here's my observations:

First, and by far most important, you really need to chill out on the low HKs. In every match I watched, it seemed to be almost the only button you pressed. Even while you were in the middle of getting hit by something, the replay key display would show you going nuts on your HK button. A couple times, I saw you successfully land a back+HK (which is a great confirmable combo starter), and I would expect a stand LK or even just dragon punch to link after, but nope, you hit low HK again, which is too slow to combo after back+HK. Just about the only time you should throw out a low HK at all is if you need to punish a whiffed move from really far away.

You had a match against a Karin player (Furybull5477, replay ID 1DD5000, if you want to review it) who was very close to you in LP. He pretty quickly picked up on your low HK habit and started punishing nearly every one with a low MK, sometines into a combo. Eventually, he just started walking toward you and blocking low to wait for you to do a low HK, then punishing. And yet, you still kept doing it over and over.

Moving on, in nearly every match I watched, you threw out your Critical Art raw, just standing in front of your opponent (sometimes as they were getting up from a knockdown). Most of the time, they just blocked, as one would expect. There's really no reason to ever do this. Even against a hyper-aggressive, spastic opponent, you should save your CA for a guaranteed punish/combo, or just use your meter for EX special moves. Just replacing the occasional fireball with an EX, or finishing a combo with EX dragon punch or hurricane kick for some extra damage is better than blowing the entire meter for a tiny bit of block damage (unless it's actually going to chip them out for the KO, of course).

Speaking of spastic opponents, one thing you did better than a lot of players at your level was keep your movement under control. You didn't jump around a lot, nor did you dash at poorly-chosen times. That sort of reserved, defensive approach is usually quite effective at low ranks (where many players throw out unsafe attacks on a regular basis). However, you took that approach a bit too far, often simply backing up and standing there doing nothing, not even throwing fireballs from very long distance (especially surprising, as you're playing Ryu). The old adage about letting your opponent hang themself is certainly applicable at your current rank, but you have to hand them some rope at some point. In fact, that Karin player that I mentioned above was doing exactly that. To you.

Work on your anti-airs, faking attacks as their waking up to bait out unsafe wake-up attacks, simple/safe combos like standing MP links, dash throws, etc. When you did get the opportunity to punish a whiffed dragon punch, you went for throws or single hits when you could have done huge damage with a simple Crush Counter combo. (If you're not familiar with Crush Counters, I can elaborate further.)

Standing MP is arguably Ryu's best normal attack, yet you never used it. You rarely hit any button other than HK and throw, in fact. When you did try to throw, you were often out of range. All of these issues (and many more) can be improved with some time spent in Training Mode. Get a feel for every one of Ryu's attacks: standing, crouching, jumping, the range, the speed, etc. Ryu has some very effective yet simple combos, many of which start from standing MP or back+HK.

I recently made a post for another Ryu player who is close to your rank. The issues he was having aren't exactly the same as yours, but I would recommend you check out the same replay I suggested he watch, with the same advice behind it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198310857&postcount=3196

If you have any other questions or comments or poems, please feel free to post them.

Anyone up to spar in SFV? Psb/cfn id is sketchsanchez

SlimXx said:

I watched some of your replays, and here's my observations:

First, and by far most important, you really need to chill out on the low HKs. In every match I watched, it seemed to be almost the only button you pressed. Even while you were in the middle of getting hit by something, the replay key display would show you going nuts on your HK button. A couple times, I saw you successfully land a back+HK (which is a great confirmable combo starter), and I would expect a stand LK or even just dragon punch to link after, but nope, you hit low HK again, which is too slow to combo after back+HK. Just about the only time you should throw out a low HK at all is if you need to punish a whiffed move from really far away.

You had a match against a Karin player (Furybull5477, replay ID 1DD5000, if you want to review it) who was very close to you in LP. He pretty quickly picked up on your low HK habit and started punishing nearly every one with a low MK, sometines into a combo. Eventually, he just started walking toward you and blocking low to wait for you to do a low HK, then punishing. And yet, you still kept doing it over and over.

Moving on, in nearly every match I watched, you threw out your Critical Art raw, just standing in front of your opponent (sometimes as they were getting up from a knockdown). Most of the time, they just blocked, as one would expect. There's really no reason to ever do this. Even against a hyper-aggressive, spastic opponent, you should save your CA for a guaranteed punish/combo, or just use your meter for EX special moves. Just replacing the occasional fireball with an EX, or finishing a combo with EX dragon punch or hurricane kick for some extra damage is better than blowing the entire meter for a tiny bit of block damage (unless it's actually going to chip them out for the KO, of course).

Speaking of spastic opponents, one thing you did better than a lot of players at your level was keep your movement under control. You didn't jump around a lot, nor did you dash at poorly-chosen times. That sort of reserved, defensive approach is usually quite effective at low ranks (where many players throw out unsafe attacks on a regular basis). However, you took that approach a bit too far, often simply backing up and standing there doing nothing, not even throwing fireballs from very long distance (especially surprising, as you're playing Ryu). The old adage about letting your opponent hang themself is certainly applicable at your current rank, but you have to hand them some rope at some point. In fact, that Karin player that I mentioned above was doing exactly that. To you.

Work on your anti-airs, faking attacks as their waking up to bait out unsafe wake-up attacks, simple/safe combos like standing MP links, dash throws, etc. When you did get the opportunity to punish a whiffed dragon punch, you went for throws or single hits when you could have done huge damage with a simple Crush Counter combo. (If you're not familiar with Crush Counters, I can elaborate further.)

Standing MP is arguably Ryu's best normal attack, yet you never used it. You rarely hit any button other than HK and throw, in fact. When you did try to throw, you were often out of range. All of these issues (and many more) can be improved with some time spent in Training Mode. Get a feel for every one of Ryu's attacks: standing, crouching, jumping, the range, the speed, etc. Ryu has some very effective yet simple combos, many of which start from standing MP or back+HK.

I recently made a post for another Ryu player who is close to your rank. The issues he was having aren't exactly the same as yours, but I would recommend you check out the same replay I suggested he watch, with the same advice behind it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198310857&postcount=3196

If you have any other questions or comments or poems, please feel free to post them.

Click to expand...

I don't even play SF V, but damn if you're posts aren't informative, man. Great job. Do you have a blog on fighting games or something? You should.

You should see Flaming Crab Yoga Milk Beard Mickey's posts in this thread; he even adds visual aids

Sucks but I don't have time to play games anymore. My time has been completely dedicated to my art. Unfortunately, I was let go from the studio before even getting a chance to move and start working due to budget cuts. I'm taking it as a blessing because now I've got a lot of money saved up for the move that I'm going to use for school. Instead of going back to applying for jobs, I'm using this money to get further teaching. I'm still moving to CA but it's to become a student at one of the top atelier's in the world.

I guess I can stream Final Round while doing art. Being a stream monster isn't the same though. Sucks I bought my stick and don't have the time to keep playing but nothing is as important as art.

Sigh. If only there was more time in the day. Thanks everyone for keeping this thread well and alive.

DracoBlade said:

Hey guys I mentioned in a previous post that I was creating a YouTube series to help fellow scrubs learn the lingo and nuances of fighting games, something I wish was out when I was getting into the genre. Its called The Fighting Game Dictionary and my goal is to eventually cover specific tutorials (from basic to advanced) and much more but for now the first two episodes are pretty basic, just some simple skits to get the terms across.


If your interested you can watch the first two episodes below. I'd appreciate any impressions (harsh or positive) immensely! Definitely still fleshing out the series and could use some suggestions/comments to make it better!

What Does Salty Mean?
What Does Bodied Mean?

Click to expand...

I don't understand the bodied clip

but are terms like "salty" or "bodied" really in need of explanation anyway? i genuinely cant tell if these are supposed to be helpful or if you're just going for laughs.
if youre shooting for the former, probably best to not focus on streammonster-tier lingo but instead something more challenging.

i dont mean to sound overly negative and if youre just trying to get laughs thats another thing altogether.

Cindi Mayweather said:

Thanks everyone for keeping this thread well and alive.

Click to expand...

Thank you for making the thread in the first place. It was a great idea, and you really stoked the fire in the early days of the thread to develop it.

Cindi Mayweather said:

Sucks but I don't have time to play games anymore. My time has been completely dedicated to my art. Unfortunately, I was let go from the studio before even getting a chance to move and start working due to budget cuts. I'm taking it as a blessing because now I've got a lot of money saved up for the move that I'm going to use for school. Instead of going back to applying for jobs, I'm using this money to get further teaching. I'm still moving to CA but it's to become a student at one of the top atelier's in the world.

I guess I can stream Final Round while doing art. Being a stream monster isn't the same though. Sucks I bought my stick and don't have the time to keep playing but nothing is as important as art.

Sigh. If only there was more time in the day. Thanks everyone for keeping this thread well and alive.

Click to expand...

That's a shame. I was curious how much your Chun had improved by now and how the next set would go down, but good luck with your real-life endeavours either way.

Hey guys, so I've been playing zangief and I believe I've been growing as a player ever since I started going to local tournaments and I feel like who ever I fight I'm free to them. Sometimes I get really close match ups but other times I get bodied hard even perfected sometimes. And I know one of my problems is that I don't enough anti airs which I have started hitting training mode for. But I feel there are certain match ups that I feel are in impossible for me. Dhalsim is a given, I might as well put the controller down. Yesterday was a vega player whose footsteps were soo good I could never get in. We probably played 20 matches and I never took a match. Hell I think I only took like 3 rounds. His st.hp with claw was just so good. He knew the exact moment I was walking forward yo hit me with it. I just feel like a hit a huge wall with zangief and I knew he had limitations with certain match ups which is why I was thinking about picking up bison. I don't know if he does better with the dhalsim match up buy at least he is a strong character and I played a little of him sfiv. Anyway, is there anybody who wants to look at my replays or spar with me a little yo see if maybe I can better with zangief. If you're going to look at my replays try to watch the ones against silver matchups. Since I don't usually have trouble with bronze unless they're ultra or sometimes super. Thanks.
BTW holyoneturtle is my fighter Id as well as psn.

SlimXx said:

I would suggest you go to Replay Search, Search Using Replay ID, and look up replay ID 1B9AD05

Now, there's nothing particularly special about this match, but that's exactly the point. Try to watch the match actively, rather than passively.

Note the way this Ryu plays. Very few jumps, straightforward attacks when in range, a simple but effective gameplan utilizing primarily Ryu's most versatile normal attack (standing MP). He did a lot of blocking without trying to press too many buttons when it wasn't safe to do so. He had one of Ryu's most useful basic combos down pretty well: standing MP, linked into another standing MP, canceled into fireball or hurricane kick. He also used an easy Crush Counter combo (standing HK CC, standing HK again, link standing LK, cancel into LK hurricane kick) when Ken whiffed a dragon punch.

Mind you, this Ryu player still made plenty of mistakes. He tried more than once to link a crouching HK after two standing MPs (it will only link if the MP is a counter hit, which obviously can't happen on the second one in the sequence). He never used an anti-air dragon punch or crouching HP when Ken jumped in (though he did do a good job of blocking, at least). He made very little use of his V Trigger. He tried to punish a blocked dragon punch with standing HK crush counter but did it too early, causing his follow-up to whiff. Etc. Someone that knows Ryu better than I do could probably tell you many more mistakes, as well.

Again, it's not that you should specifically aim to emulate this particular Ryu player, but it should give you a good idea of a basic Ryu gameplan at your current level. Even the relatively simple combos that he did might still be difficult for you to perform consistently right now. That's fine; practice simpler versions if you need to, then try to work your way up. Ryu's standing MP is a fantastic attack, so you should definitely become comfortable with its range, speed, and combo possibilities.

I am far from a Ryu expert, but this will hopefully give you a bit of a starting point.

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I haven't had much free time to check the replay so today I tried to check it but I can't seem to find it using the replay ID.

z3phon said:

I haven't had much free time to check the replay so today I tried to check it but I can't seem to find it using the replay ID.

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Ah, it looks like the replay expired. I should have made a video from it. Lemme see if I can find a similar good example.

Crab Milk Mickey said:

That's a shame. I was curious how much your Chun had improved by now and how the next set would go down, but good luck with your real-life endeavours either way.

Click to expand...

Let's schedule a set this week.

oneida said:

I don't understand the bodied clip

but are terms like "salty" or "bodied" really in need of explanation anyway? i genuinely cant tell if these are supposed to be helpful or if you're just going for laughs.
if youre shooting for the former, probably best to not focus on streammonster-tier lingo but instead something more challenging.

i dont mean to sound overly negative and if youre just trying to get laughs thats another thing altogether.

Click to expand...

Well with terms that are slang, generally they (like you said being stream monster-tier) are more comedy oriented and as ubiquitous for us GAFfers and honestly gamers as a whole I'm trying to design the series in such a way as to include those who are utterly unfamiliar with the scene or term (which anecdotally among people Ive been trying to teach SFV is surprisingly lacking in the terms comprehension department).

BUT yes the plan is for more educational/tutorial videos in the future when I have a moderate amount of time to compile footage etc.

And no I totally feel your input! Not too negative whatsoever! I was looking more for insight on whether the intro/editing identity was captivating enough for these videos. Thanks again Oneida and I'l pass along a more fleshed out video when I get to it! Would love suggestions on terms or techniques if you have any you'd think would be good to have a video compliment of (been thinking Defining Cross-up for example or Quarter circle basics from the most fundamental level)

Holyoneturtle said:

Hey guys, so I've been playing zangief and I believe I've been growing as a player ever since I started going to local tournaments and I feel like who ever I fight I'm free to them. Sometimes I get really close match ups but other times I get bodied hard even perfected sometimes. And I know one of my problems is that I don't enough anti airs which I have started hitting training mode for. But I feel there are certain match ups that I feel are in impossible for me. Dhalsim is a given, I might as well put the controller down. Yesterday was a vega player whose footsteps were soo good I could never get in. We probably played 20 matches and I never took a match. Hell I think I only took like 3 rounds. His st.hp with claw was just so good. He knew the exact moment I was walking forward yo hit me with it. I just feel like a hit a huge wall with zangief and I knew he had limitations with certain match ups which is why I was thinking about picking up bison. I don't know if he does better with the dhalsim match up buy at least he is a strong character and I played a little of him sfiv. Anyway, is there anybody who wants to look at my replays or spar with me a little yo see if maybe I can better with zangief. If you're going to look at my replays try to watch the ones against silver matchups. Since I don't usually have trouble with bronze unless they're ultra or sometimes super. Thanks.
BTW holyoneturtle is my fighter Id as well as psn.

Click to expand...

Zangief - Dhalsim honestly isn't too bad for the big guy from an objective point-of-view in Street Fighter V, but... by the end of the day it's still a nuanced match-up that requires a particular playstyle. What Zangief has to do, much like any other character really, is know how to counter-poke or whiff punish to cope with his limbs if Dhalsim is successful at keeping his opponent at bay. Of course it won't be as cut-and-dry in an actual match, but here are a few examples to illustrate the above:



Now keep in mind that these aren't his only options, so I recommend looking into it yourself when examining your options or ideal spacing in Training Mode. The above came from the basic guidelines I wrote on how to play Dhalsim, and I peppered it with some advice on where his weaknesses lie by design if you want to educate yourself about what he's capable of. How much you need to know naturally depends on how good the opposing player is, which is why I linked the guidelines, but your core gameplan against your run-of-the-mill Dhalsim will revolve around three pillars as Zangief.


TELEPORTING

First and foremost: contesting the teleports is relatively easy if you're fighting one who is overly aggressive. A common misconception is that this move gives him impunity to approach people, which is far removed from reality. Every character in the game has multiple buttons to stuff him out of it on reaction, with most characters also having methods of escaping a post-knockdown mix-up, but let's go with the safest universal option here for the sake of clarity. If he's teleporting a lot, condition yourself to jab. If he brings himself next to you (be in front or behind you) then even his fastest attacks will lose to your standing jab, which in turn puts him in a 50/50 situation as soon as he touches the ground. Against most characters with a command grab, this is a terrifying prospect for Dhalsim; things can easily go wrong just off of one wrong guess with all the considerations he has to make in a split second. His quickest normals (standing LP and LK) are 4 frames instead of the usual 3, so if your frame traps are on-point, he has little choice but to endure the block string against most characters. This naturally carries an inherent risk against someone like Zangief, since if he's looking to defend himself against Zangief's buttons, he has to worry about the inherent threat that is the SPD in conjunction with even a normal throw. You can say he has access to a V-Reversal, but this can be baited out (a net positive for multiple reasons) and subsequently run the risk of being grabbed out of it. He can reversal teleport away from that 50/50... but in Street Fighter V he can now be grabbed out of this too. Dhalsim could backdash out of Zangief's SPD... but then he's automatically susceptible to counter hits or even worse, a Crush Counter. What if Dhalsim teleports in place instead? Jab anyways, because there is flatout nothing Dhalsim can do to punish a whiffed jab from that distance. Hell, even during fireball set-ups it can occasionally be worthwhile to jab him out of the teleport in spite of taking the hit from the projectile, because you will usually recover in time before Dhalsim can retain control again. Note how the Bison is walking forwards when Dhalsim is still airborne:



Apologies for the .gif being on the quick side, but it does highlight there being an opening. Another factor worth bringing up on how to control his teleport hijinx, is the fact Dhalsim cannot teleport behind you if you're at the very edge of the screen if your back is as close to the 'corner' as possible, thus making his options all the more predictable. I say 'corner' because this works anywhere on the level. Lastly, refining your reflexes against a teleport isn't exactly a difficult ordeal: your mileage may vary, but the way I do it is via audio cues. His teleport has a very sharp sound to it, higher pitched than most other special moves in the game, so it ought to be second nature to jab (or whatever else works) through this alone without even seeing his destination once you're accustomed to this.

SLIDES

Combating the slides is comparatively speaking quite straight-forward. Know this: without near-perfect spacing, these are all punishable on block and sometimes even on (counter) hit! This extends to his Yoga Drills too with less severity, but I digress. Now of course the Dhalsim could aim to only have them hit you at the last active frames of the move, but it's not something a whole lot of them are currently doing right now, so learn how to exploit this weakness until they learn. It is without a shadow of doubt a bad habit prone to heavy punishment, with his HK slide being the only true exception here (for some characters) if it's blocked by the very tip of it given the distance between both players afterwards. If Dhalsim's V-Trigger enters the equation, things get a little more complicated however. Slides can be made safe with its activation, which is why most Dhalsim players rely on it as a crutch, but thankfully Zangief is one of several characters that can nullify the flame carpet through a well-timed V-Reversal. The 'trick' here is to execute it during the flashy V-Trigger animation where the opponent is temporarily frozen, as seen below:



CORNER PRESSURE

Admittedly this is a weakness that every character suffers from, but this is an important aspect to dismantling a Dhalsim for a variety of reasons. The choices that he can make here are severely limited, even moreso if you have the situational awareness to lower the effectiveness the above two pillars I listed. Staying grounded is crucial: Dhalsim has 3 - 4 strong anti-airs covering different distances, never mind that his fireballs as well as his air-to-air normals (read: V-Skill) provide him a lot of control over the air space. Jumping isn't always a bad idea and you should definitely test the waters whether the Dhalsim has the presence of mind to make any jump-in attempts borderline redundant, but you have to respect this strength vs a skilled one, especially with Zangief having a shallow and slow jumping trajectory on top of his actual size. Two concrete examples as to when it can be a good idea to jump regardless of player ability: if you want to trade with his anti-airs given the health discrepancy between both characters, or if you want to move closer in between the opening of let's say 2 x standing MP from Dhalsim. If he throws non-EX fireballs, you can dash under time with the right timing. Even the act of simply walking forwards and doing nothing (save for timely blocks) can cause the other player to flinch or hesitate when you're an imposing heavy-hitter.

Now to get the actual point: counter-hitting and whiff punishing limbs make for an exaggerated twist on footsies, but it is key to pushing Dhalsim towards the corner and which is why I stress you ought to opt for a grounded approach. It forces him to be more considerate about his actions, maybe even second-guess himself long enough for you to inch closer if he lacks the mental fortitude or experience to get around this, effectively turning the match-up into a war of attrition. This is emphasized by the noticeably prolonged animations and recoveries on his pokes compared to their equivalents in older Street Fighter titles. With correct timing you can even get a knockdown with Zangief's sweep if you read a standing MK or Fierce Punch, or better yet even a Crush Counter! If it's the latter, you're only two forward dashes away from being in his face before Dhalsim is allowed to stand up! With his back against the wall, this is where Zangief can truly press an advantage if not victory itself: Dhalsim's close-range normals are adequate, but they're liable to being outpoked by other character's normals when put on the defensive. As a result he has to be careful when he's actually pushing a button, lest he run the risk of Zangief eating some hits with help of his armor moves, being shimmy'd by those with movement speed or falling for frame traps including potential Crush Counters. Knockdowns lead to meaties that he cannot exactly escape from in this position either. V-Reversals, teleports and slides come with their own (aforementioned) caveats with the latter only really being useful to low profile under jumps; another reason to stay grounded! Bottom line of this match-up is: make your corner pressure count, because while it can take a ton of work to put him in this position to begin with, while he's there Dhalsim struggles to make an escape against mindful players. No easy get-out-of-jail cards, period.

TL;DR

I know this isn't exactly the type of advice you were specifically looking for, nor did I watch your replays, but I wanted to point out that the match-ups you were struggling aren't necessarily lopsided on a fundamental level in Street Fighter V thanks to its immaculate balance. If you lack the know-how to get the ball rolling, then that's understandable because Zangief has always been one of the more demanding characters to perform well with. Regardless though, hopefully the above information will be of use to you concerning core tactics / mindsets and gave you enough insight on drawing parallels with his other problem cases.

Cindi Mayweather said:

Let's schedule a set this week.

Click to expand...

Sure. I'll contact you if I spot you on Steam.

Crab Milk Mickey said:

Zangief - Dhalsim honestly isn't too bad for the big guy from an objective point-of-view in Street Fighter V, but... by the end of the day it's still a nuanced match-up that requires a particular playstyle. What Zangief has to do, much like any other character really, is know how to counter-poke or whiff punish to cope with his limbs if Dhalsim is successful at keeping his opponent at bay. Of course it won't be as cut-and-dry in an actual match, but here are a few examples to illustrate the above:

Now keep in mind that these aren't his only options, so I recommend looking into it yourself when examining your options or ideal spacing in Training Mode. The above came from the basic guidelines I wrote on how to play Dhalsim, and I peppered it with some advice on where his weaknesses lie by design if you want to educate yourself about what he's capable of. How much you need to know naturally depends on how good the opposing player is, which is why I linked the guidelines, but your core gameplan against your run-of-the-mill Dhalsim will revolve around three pillars as Zangief.

1) Knowing how to respond to his teleports
2) Being aware of when his slides are punishable (as they're very unsafe)
3) Having a method to work him into the corner (which is where the counter-poking will come in handy)​

TELEPORTING

First and foremost: contesting the teleports is relatively easy if you're fighting one who is overly aggressive. A common misconception is that this move gives him impunity to approach people, which is far removed from reality. Every character in the game has multiple buttons to stuff him out of it on reaction, with most characters also having methods of escaping a post-knockdown mix-up, but let's go with the safest universal option here for the sake of clarity. If he's teleporting a lot, condition yourself to jab. If he brings himself next to you (be in front or behind you) then even his fastest attacks will lose to your standing jab, which in turn puts him in a 50/50 situation as soon as he touches the ground. Against most characters with a command grab, this is a terrifying prospect for Dhalsim; things can easily go wrong just off of one wrong guess with all the considerations he has to make in a split second. His quickest normals (standing LP and LK) are 4 frames instead of the usual 3, so if your frame traps are on-point, he has little choice but to endure the block string against most characters. This naturally carries an inherent risk against someone like Zangief, since if he's looking to defend himself against Zangief's buttons, he has to worry about the inherent threat that is the SPD in conjunction with even a normal throw. You can say he has access to a V-Reversal, but this can be baited out (a net positive for multiple reasons) and subsequently run the risk of being grabbed out of it. He can reversal teleport away from that 50/50... but in Street Fighter V he can now be grabbed out of this too. Dhalsim could backdash out of Zangief's SPD... but then he's automatically susceptible to counter hits or even worse, a Crush Counter. What if Dhalsim teleports in place instead? Jab anyways, because there is flatout nothing Dhalsim can do to punish a whiffed jab from that distance. Hell, even during fireball set-ups it can occasionally be worthwhile to jab him out of the teleport in spite of taking the hit from the projectile, because you will usually recover in time before Dhalsim can retain control again. Note how the Bison is walking forwards when Dhalsim is still airborne:

Apologies for the .gif being on the quick side, but it does highlight there being an opening. Another factor worth bringing up on how to control his teleport hijinx, is the fact Dhalsim cannot teleport behind you if you're at the very edge of the screen if your back is as close to the 'corner' as possible, thus making his options all the more predictable. I say 'corner' because this works anywhere on the level. Lastly, refining your reflexes against a teleport isn't exactly a difficult ordeal: your mileage may vary, but the way I do it is via audio cues. His teleport has a very sharp sound to it, higher pitched than most other special moves in the game, so it ought to be second nature to jab (or whatever else works) through this alone without even seeing his destination once you're accustomed to this.

SLIDES

Combating the slides is comparatively speaking quite straight-forward. Know this: without near-perfect spacing, these are all punishable on block and sometimes even on (counter) hit! This extends to his Yoga Drills too with less severity, but I digress. Now of course the Dhalsim could aim to only have them hit you at the last active frames of the move, but it's not something a whole lot of them are currently doing right now, so learn how to exploit this weakness until they learn. It is without a shadow of doubt a bad habit prone to heavy punishment, with his HK slide being the only true exception here (for some characters) if it's blocked by the very tip of it given the distance between both players afterwards. If Dhalsim's V-Trigger enters the equation, things get a little more complicated however. Slides can be made safe with its activation, which is why most Dhalsim players rely on it as a crutch, but thankfully Zangief is one of several characters that can nullify the flame carpet through a well-timed V-Reversal. The 'trick' here is to execute it during the flashy V-Trigger animation where the opponent is temporarily frozen, as seen below:

CORNER PRESSURE

Admittedly this is a weakness that every character suffers from, but this is an important aspect to dismantling a Dhalsim for a variety of reasons. The choices that he can make here are severely limited, even moreso if you have the situational awareness to lower the effectiveness the above two pillars I listed. Staying grounded is crucial: Dhalsim has 3 - 4 strong anti-airs covering different distances, never mind that his fireballs as well as his air-to-air normals (read: V-Skill) provide him a lot of control over the air space. Jumping isn't always a bad idea and you should definitely test the waters whether the Dhalsim has the presence of mind to make any jump-in attempts borderline redundant, but you have to respect this strength vs a skilled one, especially with Zangief having a shallow and slow jumping trajectory on top of his actual size. Two concrete examples as to when it can be a good idea to jump regardless of player ability: if you want to trade with his anti-airs given the health discrepancy between both characters, or if you want to move closer in between the opening of let's say 2 x standing MP from Dhalsim. If he throws non-EX fireballs, you can dash under time with the right timing. Even the act of simply walking forwards and doing nothing (save for timely blocks) can cause the other player to flinch or hesitate when you're an imposing heavy-hitter.

Now to get the actual point: counter-hitting and whiff punishing limbs make for an exaggerated twist on footsies, but it is key to pushing Dhalsim towards the corner and which is why I stress you ought to opt for a grounded approach. It forces him to be more considerate about his actions, maybe even second-guess himself long enough for you to inch closer if he lacks the mental fortitude or experience to get around this, effectively turning the match-up into a war of attrition. This is emphasized by the noticeably prolonged animations and recoveries on his pokes compared to their equivalents in older Street Fighter titles. With correct timing you can even get a knockdown with Zangief's sweep if you read a standing MK or Fierce Punch, or better yet even a Crush Counter! If it's the latter, you're only two forward dashes away from being in his face before Dhalsim is allowed to stand up! With his back against the wall, this is where Zangief can truly press an advantage if not victory itself: Dhalsim's close-range normals are adequate, but they're liable to being outpoked by other character's normals when put on the defensive. As a result he has to be careful when he's actually pushing a button, lest he run the risk of Zangief eating some hits with help of his armor moves, being shimmy'd by those with movement speed or falling for frame traps including potential Crush Counters. Knockdowns lead to meaties that he cannot exactly escape from in this position either. V-Reversals, teleports and slides come with their own (aforementioned) caveats with the latter only really being useful to low profile under jumps; another reason to stay grounded! Bottom line of this match-up is: make your corner pressure count, because while it can take a ton of work to put him in this position to begin with, while he's there Dhalsim struggles to make an escape against mindful players. No easy get-out-of-jail cards, period.

TL;DR

I know this isn't exactly the type of advice you were specifically looking for, nor did I watch your replays, but I wanted to point out that the match-ups you were struggling aren't necessarily lopsided on a fundamental level in Street Fighter V thanks to its immaculate balance. If you lack the know-how to get the ball rolling, then that's understandable because Zangief has always been one of the more demanding characters to perform well with. Regardless though, hopefully the above information will be of use to you concerning core tactics / mindsets and gave you enough insight on drawing parallels with his other problem cases.

Sure. I'll contact you if I spot you on Steam.

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Wow thanks man. You really changed my attitude towards the dhalsim matchup. I appreciate this and will try to work on my footsies with dhalsim.

Maybe someone can help me with this.

When I go into practice mode in MK X on the PC, let's say I do the classic SF haduken fireball motion and the input display shows that I'm doing down, down-right, right, which is the correct motion. When I try to do the same in SF V on the PS4, my inputs are not as clean and it shows that I'm inputting extra directional inputs

My stick is a modded Madcatz SE with sanwa parts and a brooks universal pcb. Wondering if MK X has some sort of compensation which makes my inputs cleaner.


Edit* haven't played fighting games since the original tekken tag back in the day. This is also my first fight stick so I'm probably not playing as clean as I should be which is expected. I was just bummed out when I got SF V yesterday and went into practice mode

Hey guys! Quick story and a question here!

Today I had a very nice interaction on XBL in SF4. A guy totally whipped my ass and then offered to show me a few tricks. He picked the same character I did (Ken) and then he went through the motion and I tried to imitate it. I felt like I was in an actual martial arts class. It was great.

What was less great is that showed a fatal flaw in my execution. I can't low normal into DP to save my life. I tried it on stick, went back to pad (because Im still learning stick) and still got nothing. Only now am I remember the SF4 trick of doing d, df, d, df to make it come out.

I know its silly, but can anyone offer any tips on this? :/ Maybe some of you have had similar issues?

I've always loved Mortal Kombat but never been any good. Need to step it up

Martal said:

Hey guys! Quick story and a question here!

Today I had a very nice interaction on XBL in SF4. A guy totally whipped my ass and then offered to show me a few tricks. He picked the same character I did (Ken) and then he went through the motion and I tried to imitate it. I felt like I was in an actual martial arts class. It was great.

What was less great is that showed a fatal flaw in my execution. I can't low normal into DP to save my life. I tried it on stick, went back to pad (because Im still learning stick) and still got nothing. Only now am I remember the SF4 trick of doing d, df, d, df to make it come out.

I know its silly, but can anyone offer any tips on this? :/ Maybe some of you have had similar issues?

Click to expand...

It helps if you try and perform both actions in one motion. For example: if you want to do crouching MK into Hadoken - which is easier to perform than the combo you're currently struggling with - what experienced players end up doing instead is execute one quarter-circle forward and adjust the timing of their button presses accordingly, rather than go for down + MK and then QCF. Some visual aids, albeit for SFV:



Mind you my inputs are rather unclean, but this should alleviate your issues once you get a feel for it.

Sword Of Doom said:

Maybe someone can help me with this.

When I go into practice mode in MK X on the PC, let's say I do the classic SF haduken fireball motion and the input display shows that I'm doing down, down-right, right, which is the correct motion. When I try to do the same in SF V on the PS4, my inputs are not as clean and it shows that I'm inputting extra directional inputs

My stick is a modded Madcatz SE with sanwa parts and a brooks universal pcb. Wondering if MK X has some sort of compensation which makes my inputs cleaner.

Edit* haven't played fighting games since the original tekken tag back in the day. This is also my first fight stick so I'm probably not playing as clean as I should be which is expected. I was just bummed out when I got SF V yesterday and went into practice mode

Click to expand...

I'm not 100% certain but I believe there indeed exists a higher leniency or some compensation for inputs in Mortal Kombat X.

Regarding you playing SFV on PS4: do you happen to play that game on an HDTV? Those usually have higher input delay compared to a monitor (although the severity of this varies) and that's the first thing that crossed my mind when you wrote about playing MKX on PC.

Martal said:

Hey guys! Quick story and a question here!

Today I had a very nice interaction on XBL in SF4. A guy totally whipped my ass and then offered to show me a few tricks. He picked the same character I did (Ken) and then he went through the motion and I tried to imitate it. I felt like I was in an actual martial arts class. It was great.

What was less great is that showed a fatal flaw in my execution. I can't low normal into DP to save my life. I tried it on stick, went back to pad (because Im still learning stick) and still got nothing. Only now am I remember the SF4 trick of doing d, df, d, df to make it come out.

I know its silly, but can anyone offer any tips on this? :/ Maybe some of you have had similar issues?

Click to expand...

I recently watched this video about doing a dragon punch from a crouching position.

I'm not sure if I have the same issue... I do have the issue where sometimes a dragon punch doesn't come out and instead I get a fireball. Or worse, which I also saw happen on Final Round this weekend, a fireball should come out and instead I get a dragon punch and get punished.

Thanks a bunch to both of you! Now I just need to do the hard part - training mode.

I know it will pay off though.

Holyoneturtle said:

Hey guys, so I've been playing zangief and I believe I've been growing as a player ever since I started going to local tournaments and I feel like who ever I fight I'm free to them. Sometimes I get really close match ups but other times I get bodied hard even perfected sometimes. And I know one of my problems is that I don't enough anti airs which I have started hitting training mode for. But I feel there are certain match ups that I feel are in impossible for me. Dhalsim is a given, I might as well put the controller down. Yesterday was a vega player whose footsteps were soo good I could never get in. We probably played 20 matches and I never took a match. Hell I think I only took like 3 rounds. His st.hp with claw was just so good. He knew the exact moment I was walking forward yo hit me with it. I just feel like a hit a huge wall with zangief and I knew he had limitations with certain match ups which is why I was thinking about picking up bison. I don't know if he does better with the dhalsim match up buy at least he is a strong character and I played a little of him sfiv. Anyway, is there anybody who wants to look at my replays or spar with me a little yo see if maybe I can better with zangief. If you're going to look at my replays try to watch the ones against silver matchups. Since I don't usually have trouble with bronze unless they're ultra or sometimes super. Thanks.
BTW holyoneturtle is my fighter Id as well as psn.

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I watched a few of your recent replays, and I get the sneaking suspicion that you've played Zangief before in previous game(s), possibly SF4. My reasons for thinking this include:

1) Too much use of lariat
2) Strong ground game but weak anti-air game
3) Occasionally misjudging SPD range
4) Weak/awkward use of V Trigger
5) Almost total lack of V Skill use

Your basic gameplan and framework looks good, you just need to adapt to all the ways Zangief is different in SF5 compared to previous games. Lemme touch on that above list of points.

1) Lariat still has its uses in SF5, but it's weaker in just about every way than it was in SF4. It no longer has any invincibility to strikes, even on the earliest frames. This means you have to use it much earlier as anti-air and it's a bad idea to use as any sort of ground reversal or anti-poke. The recovery is considerably longer, as well, making it a poor choice for dealing with fireballs, even from full screen.

The only things the lariat is useful for, now, are anti-air on wide-angled raw jump-ins (as long as you do it early enough), or to finish combos if you are close enough (toward+fierce, link stand short into lariat).

2) Your ground poking game is coming along nicely, though you can still use more low jab. Jab jab jab jab jab. If you don't like jab, don't play Zangief. Speaking of jabs, standing jab is also amazing. That was the big hole I saw in your anti-airing. Standing jab covers the whole area in front of/above Zangief's face on frame 5 with a great hitbox. Any time the opponent is too close to you to risk lariat, hit standing jab. There were several times I saw you try to use standing fierce as anti-air. Ya know what ya shoulda used? Standing jab. It's also good for setups when you expect a jump to avoid your SPD. Speaking of SPDs...

Even though SPD isn't used the same way in SF5 as it was in older games (due to the 5 frame startup), it's still a big part of Zangief's game and people still freak out any time you get near them and try to jump away a lot. Just like Mika, it's often better to make people think you're going to SPD them than to actually try to do it. Two low jabs into jab SPD works like a charm, but if you get them used to that, replacing the SPD with either standing RH (big damage, possible Crush Counter, long range, minor risk if blocked, big risk if crouched) or good ol' standing jab (little damage, good positioning if it hits, still in good position if it's blocked, same +3 on block as low jab) just continue the Zangief nightmare for your opponent. You can also start to work in air SPD, though it's one of Zangief's trickiest new moves to perfect.

3) This just takes practice, not much else to say. Jab SPD range is huge, but there's a big drop off to strong and fierce. EX is between jab and strong in range, does fierce damage, the most stun of all, and is immune to throws (still 5 frame startup, though). The higher the SPD strength, the better positioning/timing you get for dashing in after, as well.

4) You made some decent use of V Trigger, but it could definitely be improved. Zangief's Trigger can be used in a bunch of different ways that can really get scary for your opponent if you mix it up. Obviously, it makes a great anti-fireball tool, but using it even just in neutral is very strong. Once it has been activated, it will combo off of even a low jab from max range, giving you a very strong mix up between SPD or low short, low jab, low jab into Trigger spin after you've pulled them in with the activation. If you go for the shorts/jabs and they block, you can just pull them in again and they're right back in the 50/50. You won't have enough spinning left for the EX SPD/standing RH/jumping splash/etc. juggle after if it hits, but you still get good damage and a knockdown. You did land the spin into Critical Art in one of the replays that I watched, so that's already a good start.

However, do not try to use it as any sort of anti-air. The suction effect hit box only stretches out horizontally in front of Zangief, with a very small hitbox on his fist when it's behind his head. The entire area above his head is totally vulnerable while spinning.

5) Finally, Zangief's V Skill is a big part of his game in SF5, especially in some matchups. This is what you should be using to deal with long range fireballs (as well as toward+fierce headbutt) instead of lariat. It also works wonders against any sort of slow long range poke that is otherwise difficult/impossible to punish, such as Nash's toward+fierce backfist, Birdie's down-toward+fierce slide, Vega's toward+fierce claw, Karin's damn near anything from mid-range, Chun Li's standing fierce, Dhalsim's limbs, Bison's down-toward+fierce, Mika's charged RH drop kick, etc, etc, etc.

If you just tap it, it recovers quickly enough to SPD a lot of things, or at least "whiff" punish with a poke. Holding the buttons to absorb another hit can also be great if used well, though it's trickier to time. Work on single hits first.

6) Oh, and also please work on your paragraph game.

Daigo's thoughts / notes on "the 6 Main Skills for Fighting Game Players." Very useful insight:

(THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE ESSAY/ARTICLE, JUST NOTES THAT WERE WRITTEN BY DAIGO. Please be aware, this is not meant to be an essay; these are literally just Daigo's preparatory notes that he allowed me to translate and post online. This is a direct translation; the interpretation is up to you. More notes to come every week; check out https://www.twitch.tv/daigothebeastv for the full breakdown.)​

"First, I'd like to speak about my thoughts on the 6 Main Skills for Fighting Game Players. They are...

1) Execution - The ability to input commands quickly and correctly.
2) Discovery Power - The ability to discover strong moves and techniques.
3) Reactions - Not just simple reaction speed, but the ability to keep up in a fast paced game world. You could also call it Thought Speed.
4) Willpower - This is not so important in everyday matches...but in tournaments or other high pressure situations, this is extremely important.
5) Memory - The opposite of Willpower...this is not so important in tournaments or other short term situations. but in long sets or casuals this is very important for maintaining a positive win rate.
6) Power to Construct Strategies - In Fighting Games, this is generally the most important skill in order to win. If you can beat your opponent in this aspect, there is no way you should lose.

For this stream, I will explain how to construct a proper strategy. Discovery Power has become somewhat of a meaningless skill with the spread of the Internet since players cannot copyright techniques or strategies. As for Execution and Reaction, their importance depends on the game; for example, in SFV execution is not a very important skill at all. Finally, Memory and Willpower are skills that every individual already possesses, so they are difficult to teach over a stream. Therefore, the best skill for any player to focus on developing is the Power to Construct Strategies, so I would like to explain that now.

First, you must seek out the correct winning strategy. The more strategies you possess, the stronger each individual strategy becomes. For example...

STRATEGY #1 - Sealing your opponent's movements by saving your meter until you bring their health down to the point where they will die to a Super Combo.

[Good Points]

1) Even if you lose the round, you will have meter for the next round.
2) You lower the chances of your opponent activating V-Trigger twice in the same round.
3) You don't have to deal with a "magic pixel" opponent.
4) Since you are only focusing on bringing your opponent down to a certain health threshold, this is an easy strategy that anyone can implement.​

[Downsides]

1) If you win using this strategy, you won't have any meter for the next round.
2) Since you are saving your meter for the kill, your meter efficiency will be poor (because in this game you gain meter even if you are being hit).​

STRATEGY #2 - Carrying your opponent to the corner then winning with throw 50/50 mixups.

[Good Points]

1) Very meter efficient.
2) Easy to aim for dizzy.
3) There's a chance to win without letting your opponent activate V-Trigger.​

[Downsides]

1) Since it's easy to take damage while carrying your opponent to the corner, if you fail to carry them there or let them escape, you chances to win drastically drop.​

STRATEGY #3 - Use fireballs in neutral to bring down your opponent's health, seal their offense, and win. The focus of this strategy is to not let yourself be cornered.

[Good Points]

1) You can easily observe the battle while executing this strategy, so you can safely adjust and succeed in this strategy even if it's just for the short term.
2) You can easily switch to Strategy #1 while executing this tactic.​

[Downsides]

1) If you don't win with Super (Strategy #1), then the odds of your opponent activating V-Trigger twice in the same round are high.
2) You are more likely to end up fighting a "magic pixel" opponent.
3) There is the risk that you may be cornered then quickly lose the round.​

Now that you know some strategies, you need to choose the proper one based on your opponent's game plan. For example, against characters like Dhalsim and Nash, fighting them midscreen is difficult so you have no choice but to bring them to the corner (assuming your opponent is playing the match properly). On the other hand, bringing characters like Mika and Cammy to the corner is difficult, so you have no choice but to use Strategy #3.

After you select a strategy, you need to think about how to make that strategy succeed. How can I successfully bring my opponent to the corner? How can I successfully prevent myself from being cornered? The important thing here is that once you decide on a strategy, you need to stop focusing on doing immediate damage and instead focusing on succeeding in the strategy. For example, if you choose Strategy #2 (Corner Carry), you cannot use your Heavy Tatsu (because you will switch places with your opponent) and even if you are in range for a Shoryuken combo, you must sacrifice damage and use Medium Tatsu (for corner carry). Don't think about opening up your opponent in neutral, just focus on making them block and bringing them to the corner. Once you have them in the corner, that's when you focus on breaking their guard and winning.

If you choose Strategy #1, even if you have the opportunity to land your Super Combo, you should not use it unless it is going to kill."

(End of notes. Check the stream for the more conclusive ending.)​

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http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sofaot

SlimXx said:

I watched a few of your recent replays, and I get the sneaking suspicion that you've played Zangief before in previous game(s), possibly SF4. My reasons for thinking this include:

1) Too much use of lariat
2) Strong ground game but weak anti-air game
3) Occasionally misjudging SPD range
4) Weak/awkward use of V Trigger
5) Almost total lack of V Skill use

Click to expand...

When wrote that I was on my phone and I didn't bother to spell check, but yeah my paragraph game sucks. Anyway thanks for the feedback and to answer your questions no I was not a gief main in SF4. I started out as a cammy main then switched to gouken and finally settled on balrog. Played balrog from vanilla until ultra, in December I tried picking up gief because I had settled to main gief in SFV and thought that there might be some things that i should know about. Would like to go over some of the topics you talked about.

1) Lariat - yeah my lariat game is iffy at best. I try to never wake up with it but sometimes instinct kicks and it happens. When I hit training room to practice anti airs I realized that Lariat is the best option for jump ins. While Cr. FP and standing jab is best for Neutral jumps (usually when they're close to me and they're scared i'll grab on wake up which I try not to do).

2) Ground game - I completely agree with you with the whole poking thing. I try not to spam jab because it becomes too obvious and I get crush counter for it. Would like to know how to get better at footsies in general? I also think I dont use LK or MK too much. I would like to know your opinion on these two buttons. I recently found out that if Cr.Mk is blocked i can SPD into it, I want to try and incorporate that into my game a little more.

St.FP - I just found this out in training mode and started doing it in real matches because i feel like its just a good option for jump ins. It also has a chance of crush counter. However it has backfired on me since it moves me forward and sometimes the opponent lands behind me. This could be because they jumped in when they were too close or I let go of St.FP too early. I am still experimenting with this so if its causing more problems then it's worth ill think it over.

SPD - My main problem is that even though i know the ranges for SPD in practice rooms, I am too uncertain and go for knee SPD. Based on my replays, do you think i spam knee into SPD too much or make it look too obvious?

As for air SPD i only do it as a read. Hard for me to do it on reaction unless its like Vega's barcelona attack.

3) Jab SPD is something I practiced but i barely used it in a real match. I have to condition myself to do this. and i'll definitely use St.FK as a way to keep people grounded/mixup. I did not know EX.SPD was immune to throws.

4) V Trigger - I have to use it with combos more. I usually activate to at least try and use it. Sometimes I activate for people who do a good job of staying away from me and I try to suck them in. But again im not using it to its full potential. Also, I dont use it with V-skill. Really lacking on my part. As for the anti air part of V-trigger, I dont try to do it but once again its one of those times where instinct kicks in. Also, when the opponent jumps sometimes I think they're going to land in front me and I activate to try and suck them in. I have noticed that its not working the way i want it too because i keep thinking they are going to jump in with out attacking.

5) V Skill - A move i never use and its a huge problem. I never know the right situation to use it in. Crab milk mickey helped me learn some good situations to use it in with dhalsim but I wish there was a guide on just gief's V-skill.


Thanks a lot, I will definitely be in the practice room looking at what everybody has helped me with here.

Does anyone want to play some MKX?

I need more practice with my Smoke and I'm getting bodied online.

Holyoneturtle said:

1) When I hit training room to practice anti airs I realized that Lariat is the best option for jump ins. While Cr. FP and standing jab is best for Neutral jumps (usually when they're close to me and they're scared i'll grab on wake up which I try not to do).

2) Ground game - I completely agree with you with the whole poking thing. I try not to spam jab because it becomes too obvious and I get crush counter for it. Would like to know how to get better at footsies in general? I also think I dont use LK or MK too much. I would like to know your opinion on these two buttons. I recently found out that if Cr.Mk is blocked i can SPD into it, I want to try and incorporate that into my game a little more.

3) SPD - My main problem is that even though i know the ranges for SPD in practice rooms, I am too uncertain and go for knee SPD. Based on my replays, do you think i spam knee into SPD too much or make it look too obvious?

4) V Trigger

5) V Skill - A move i never use and its a huge problem. I never know the right situation to use it in. Crab milk mickey helped me learn some good situations to use it in with dhalsim but I wish there was a guide on just gief's V-skill.

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1) Standing jab is additionally useful for how quickly it hits compared to his other anti-airs, as well as how safe it is if you anticipate a jump that doesn't happen. For reference, here is the hit box for it on the first frame it hits (frame 5):



Low fierce is a good anti-air, as you said. However, it hits at the same speed as the lariat and has a smaller (though still good) hit box. What makes low fierce potentially superior to lariat, if you can land it, is that it leaves the opponent in front of your face similarly to his lighter normals, as opposed to knocking down like lariat.

2) Obviously, you don't want to literally spam low jab like you're trying to stop a Honda headbutt, but it's an incredible poke and a big part of Zangief's game. The speed and range combine to let you make moves like low jab, small inch forward, low jab, repeat, to make progress on getting in range and to push the opponent toward the corner. The +3 on block gives it amazing versatility, and is also why it is so good for setting up an SPD. If you do a blocked low jab then SPD as soon as possible after it recovers, you leave only a 2 frame window, which is too small for anything to counter you unless it's invincible, throw invincible, or Zangief's CA.
In fact, in places where your instinct is to go straight for an SPD, it can actually be better to do a low jab first to tap them, then SPD immediately after. The reason for this is that low jab is one frame faster than the SPD itself, and if they expected an SPD and tried to jump at the last moment, the jab will hit them (low short is even better at stopping jumps, but shorter range), often making them freeze up just long enough for the SPD afterward to grab them.

Standing short can be used as a tick, as well, but it's one frame slower than low jab, has shorter range than low jab, and is +0 on block. About the only thing it has going for it over low jab is a slightly better low hurt box. You might throw it in every now and then as a tick just to confuse the opponent, but low jab is usually better. The main use of standing short is for comboing into lariat on hit, or an occasional hail mary into running bear grab.

Standing MK is a tricky one. I was very excited about it when I first played around with Zangief during the beta. However, since then, my opinion on it has changed. It's a great poke, but it just doesn't often play into Zangief's gameplan very well. If you're going up against an opponent with strong footsies that is just shutting down your attempts to get in, it's a good normal to fall back on to get some damage in. It has a great low hurt box (or lack thereof), so it's very effective at tagging low pokes.

Low MK is -4 on block, so I don't know how much mileage you'll get out of trying to tick into SPD off of it. Try it out and see how it works, if you want, is all I can say about that.

3) Whiffed toward+MK knee into SPD is a great trick, but you really need to get a feel for the opponent's movement (or force them into where you want them) before you can start to go for it. If your opponent is jumping a lot, either to try to avoid SPD, or just in general, then you're being too respectful by even trying for toward+MK into SPD. If they refuse to stop jumping, just take them apart with standing RH, standing jab, lariat, and air SPD. On the other hand, if they stick to the ground (either on their own, or after you glued them there with those aforementioned attacks), they are ripe for whiffed toward+MK tricks. It's still fairly reactable if your opponent is looking for it, though, so don't throw it out too predictably. Off the top of my head, I'd say the best times to go for it are if they are frequently going to low pokes when you get close, or mixed in when they are expecting your 37th low jab. Don't do it just to do it if your opponent would have let you just walk up and grab them, anyway.

4) A lot of my experience with Zangief's V Trigger comes from all the different ways that I have been hit by it when playing against a good friend of mine that plays Zangief. Of course, the simplest effective use is to wait for projectile characters to throw one, then activate on reaction to pull them in. However, it has way more subtle nuances to it. First important point is that the horizontal range on the vaccuum hit box is enormous, farther than even his standing RH. Along with that, the speed at which it hits is much slower when first activating it than any time after that at which you tap the buttons. For example, you can only combo into the activation off of fierce or RH, but if you have already activated, you can combo a low jab from max range into the spin and it will connect. This means that if you have your V meter full, even if no good opportunity to hit with the activation presents itself (pretty much just crush counter fierce or against a fireball), it's usually a good idea to just go ahead and activate Trigger and then start makin' moves. The meter actually takes a long time to completely run out if you're not spinning, so don't rush it.

If you pull the opponent in blocking, the basic mixup is either straight into SPD/CA, or low short, low short/jab, low jab, spin. The low short(s) will catch them trying to jump and it will all combo into the spin. As usual, if you have enough spin time left, you can juggle with an EX air SPD, a stand RH, a jumping down+fierce, etc. The thing with the low shorts/low jabs after they block the spin is that you can even delay them very slightly if the opponent is trying to V Reversal out of the trap. Because they had to stand up to try to V Reverse, the low short will hit them. If they try to throw, the low short is faster than a throw. If they block the low short, you an just tick straight into an SPD like normal. Even if you just do the low jabs and they block, you can just combo into the spin anyway and they're right back in. Unless your opponent is really good at straight up zoning you out, they should be scared any time you get Trigger going.

5) I tossed out a few examples of V Skill bait in my previous post, but you really just have to get a feel for it. Very few moves can really punish you for making attempts on V Skill from just outside mid range, so it's often a good idea to just try it in various situations and see what happens. Even if you don't manage to get a punish off of the absorb, you at least gain some V Meter. And once you get more comfortable with using it, you can get a lot braver with using it at closer range, once you get a feel for your opponent's patterns.

It's also half of Zangief's basic anti-fireball plan. If the opponent just wants to throw fireballs all day, you can go with a V Skill absorb, toward+fierce x2, repeat pattern. Or go for two V Skill absorbs if you feel the opponent is really just not going in. If they try to keep this up forever, you'll quickly fill your V Meter and can simply activate Trigger on a fireball for big damage.

Oh, and I mentioned standing RH up there above, and I shoulda said more about it before. It's actually a surprisingly good poke, which has no extended hurt box until the hit box appears. This allows it to do things like tag Laura straight in the face while she's throwing out a fireball, even after it has left her hands. It's also great for catching people trying to jump away from SPDs, or even just as a long range anti-air (giving a Crush Counter if they are trying to hit you at the time). It'll feel weird to start hitting standing RH of all things if you're not used to it, but it really is good.

2 decent sets with my friend:critique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0VNM9_Yep0
Cammy vs Gief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtlZmKJu624
Karin vs Gief

Karin is my main.

Anyone else wanna play some matches? I need more experience. North East coast. Cfn: smoshow.

ShinMaruku said:

2 decent sets with my friend:critique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0VNM9_Yep0
Cammy vs Gief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtlZmKJu624
Karin vs Gief

Karin is my main.

Click to expand...

Stop jabbing so much, it hurts my soul.

I've been playing SFIV lately trying to develop some kind of skill in fighting games since all I know is button mashing ever since Mortal Kombat as a kid. I've learned some things through practice and watching Street Fighter streams. This is the first time in years that I've had so much fun playing a game. I would like to move on from fighting the AI to real opponents but am actually kind of afraid that I'll lose 100 times in a row and then lose interest in the game. Is the skill level more varied than I'm thinking or would I have to deal with usually fighting pro or close to pro level players?

Playing on PS4 so I'm asking before paying for the PS+ subscription. I would play with friends but they are more interested in continuing to play Smash Bros.

chicnstu said:

I've been playing SFIV lately trying to develop some kind of skill in fighting games since all I know is button mashing ever since Mortal Kombat as a kid. I've learned some things through practice and watching Street Fighter streams. This is the first time in years that I've had so much fun playing a game. I would like to move on from fighting the AI to real opponents but am actually kind of afraid that I'll lose 100 times in a row and then lose interest in the game. Is the skill level more varied than I'm thinking or would I have to deal with usually fighting pro or close to pro level players?

Playing on PS4 so I'm asking before paying for the PS+ subscription. I would play with friends but they are more interested in continuing to play Smash Bros.

Click to expand...

Your best bet to fight other noobs is in a new game. The only people left playing SFIV online are probably savages. And you'll probably still lose a lot too, try not to get bent out of shape about that and take each match as a learning experience instead of having an "I MUST WIN" mentality.

Anyone in the 800-1000 LP range want to play on PSN tonight? Add me: Edkinator91.

So with the introduction of 8 player lobbies in SFV I think we should have a few times where we can all get together to work on our game if we have some others interested as well.

PSN: Ahhhhhkmon
CFN: Camp1nCarl

Camp1nCarl said:

So with the introduction of 8 player lobbies in SFV I think we should have a few times where we can all get together to work on our game if we have some others interested as well.

PSN: Ahhhhhkmon
CFN: Camp1nCarl

Click to expand...

I'm so down.

chicnstu said:

I've been playing SFIV lately trying to develop some kind of skill in fighting games since all I know is button mashing ever since Mortal Kombat as a kid. I've learned some things through practice and watching Street Fighter streams. This is the first time in years that I've had so much fun playing a game. I would like to move on from fighting the AI to real opponents but am actually kind of afraid that I'll lose 100 times in a row and then lose interest in the game. Is the skill level more varied than I'm thinking or would I have to deal with usually fighting pro or close to pro level players?

Playing on PS4 so I'm asking before paying for the PS+ subscription. I would play with friends but they are more interested in continuing to play Smash Bros.

Click to expand...

Playing SFV online (casual) has been a weird experience for me. I'm advanced enough that I can do all the motions and make specials come out pretty consistently, but am pretty shit by most measures. Playing online is kind of like survival mode. I either tear through people that have no clue what they're doing, or I fight some god that near perfects me in 30 seconds.

Somehow I've become good enough to make people rage quit. It sucks but I'm gonna thank this thread for that lol

Holy cow, and I thought RTS mechanics were perishable. I haven't really had time to sit and play some games for two weeks, and I'm flailing around and mashing so hard it's like I'm back to my launch week skill level. This is eye-opening to a kind of scary degree.

So yeah, pro-tip for people with limited play time I guess -- Even if you don't have the time to feel good about sitting and playing some matches, it's probably wise to just practice basic mechanics few minutes a day, a few days a week when you're a newbie. yikes.

Anyway. I think I've decided on trying to main Karin. Looking forward to posting the odd video for review once I kinda get back on my feet.

I know I haven't posted here in a couple of weeks. School has taken more of my time then I expected and April will be no exception. The nice thing is that I will be graduating with my Bachelor's in six weeks. Until then my time will probably be limited.

I have been trying to play training mode for at least a few minutes every night, if only to keep the fundamentals fresh. I haven't touched online in a bit though since I want to get more training under my belt (no pun inteded). I keep going back and re-reading the extremly helpful posts from those in this thread. Everytime I read them I learn something new from it. I am forever in your debts.

I am looking forward to being more active in this thread soon as I have a long way to go before reaching my goal of being a great Street Fighter player (and hopefully excel in other fighting games like the upcoming King of Fighters).

P.S- Has there been any word on a Neogaf scrub lounge?

animlboogy said:

I need help grasping the extreme basics of SFV. What to do on wakeup, what to throw in the air, etc. A big problem for me is in close range; stuff that worked in SF4 seems completely useless here. Even when I land hits, my opponents tend to be able to throw something in and turn the tide immediately, unless I catch them with a straight up combo. And when I attempt to block in those situations it rarely helps me. I catch hits in so many situations without quite grasping why.

It's funny, when I play online or against friends who actually know a few combos and use special moves, etc. I do just fine. But against this one friend who knows his fundamentals pretty well and plays this game basically like it's SF2 (lots of mindgames, 1-2 hit little bumps and pokes), I get absolutely destroyed. And he barely plays the game.

Click to expand...

Learning some frame data will help you from not getting randomly hit between your moves. If you find a sequence of two moves that cannot be interrupted by a jab, then you know that they need to respect your offense or they need to do some kind of invincible attack/escape to beat it.

I get the impression that you know some combos but are surprised if you lose to your friend who doesn't know as much about combos but rather more fundamental stuff. The way I see it, combos are just one kind of reward for winning the neutral game where fundamentals are key. If you don't win the neutral game due to some weakness in fundamentals or just an unfortunate choice, you won't be able to land the combo. So, learn and improve your fundamentals and you'll most likely find and create more setups/opportunities to land your combos.

Karin vs Chun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH1IgbcSz_Q
Cammy vs Necalli:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-yYNcNKgU

ShinMaruku said:

Karin vs Chun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH1IgbcSz_Q
Cammy vs Necalli:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-yYNcNKgU

Click to expand...

The two biggest problems I see with your play persist with both characters. You have a tendency to play frantically when your opponent does, and you have trouble converting advantageous situations into more damage/better positioning. You just kind of play it where it lies, which is working in these two frantic games in particular, but you're building habits that are going to stop your growth and frustrate you eventually.

If your opponent is playing wild, rein them in. Answer their jump-ins with clean anti-airs. Punish their errant reversals. Stand outside of the range they like to do crazy stuff. Make them play how you want to play. If they keep playing wild, then just keep punishing. When you're on the ground and not going crazy, I can see flashes of solid play developing, but you seem pressured into playing crazy when your opponent is. Don't feel like you need to match their pace; you're going to end up in scrambles that you might lose.

With Karin, you absolutely need to learn to hit confirm. You are putting yourself in situations that you should never have to be in as Karin by not knocking down and cornering your opponent when you absolutely should be able to. You're also leaving tons of damage on the table that should rightfully be yours. A lot of times, you jump in or cross up, throw a couple jabs and either throw or cross up again. Your jump-ins are hitting, but you're not taking the free damage. These are situations that, if read by your opponent, could lose you the round or put you in bad situations. You don't need to do just frame tenkos into setups right off the bat, but learn to at least cancel into LK or HK mujinkyaku when you get a hit. You did punish with super once, which was excellent.

With Cammy, once again the lack of hit confirms are hurting you, but I saw some decent neutral play up until Necalli got in your face or you decided to over-commit to an option. Your favorite over-commitment is cannon spike. This Necalli let you get away with murder. He should have been using this game to practice his crush counter punishes because anything he did would make you cannon spike. Be careful about that. It's a great anti-air, and it's good in combos, but it's only going to work so many times in scrambles or in neutral. Save it for when you think they might not be looking for it anymore or when you really don't have any other choice. It's better to just defend and tech -- or even just take the throw -- rather than be punished for massive damage.

Overall, the same problem persists with Cammy as with Karin: You play frantically when your opponent is playing frantically. Just relax and keep your composure. React to what's happening instead of committing to an action before you know what your opponent is doing. Once you know, then you commit. It's OK to just hang back, relax, defend, punish if possible, and collect information on your opponent and the matchup. I saw you bait out a few jump-ins -- one in particular you cleanly anti-aired with standing HK. Keep that up! If your opponent is just going to keep giving you those types of opportunities, just let them. If they can't be trained into playing your game, just let them kill themselves trying to play theirs.

markwaters said:

The two biggest problems I see with your play persist with both characters. You have a tendency to play frantically when your opponent does, and you have trouble converting advantageous situations into more damage/better positioning. You just kind of play it where it lies, which is working in these two frantic games in particular, but you're building habits that are going to stop your growth and frustrate you eventually.

If your opponent is playing wild, rein them in. Answer their jump-ins with clean anti-airs. Punish their errant reversals. Stand outside of the range they like to do crazy stuff. Make them play how you want to play. If they keep playing wild, then just keep punishing. When you're on the ground and not going crazy, I can see flashes of solid play developing, but you seem pressured into playing crazy when your opponent is. Don't feel like you need to match their pace; you're going to end up in scrambles that you might lose.

With Karin, you absolutely need to learn to hit confirm. You are putting yourself in situations that you should never have to be in as Karin by not knocking down and cornering your opponent when you absolutely should be able to. You're also leaving tons of damage on the table that should rightfully be yours. A lot of times, you jump in or cross up, throw a couple jabs and either throw or cross up again. Your jump-ins are hitting, but you're not taking the free damage. These are situations that, if read by your opponent, could lose you the round or put you in bad situations. You don't need to do just frame tenkos into setups right off the bat, but learn to at least cancel into LK or HK mujinkyaku when you get a hit. You did punish with super once, which was excellent.

With Cammy, once again the lack of hit confirms are hurting you, but I saw some decent neutral play up until Necalli got in your face or you decided to over-commit to an option. Your favorite over-commitment is cannon spike. This Necalli let you get away with murder. He should have been using this game to practice his crush counter punishes because anything he did would make you cannon spike. Be careful about that. It's a great anti-air, and it's good in combos, but it's only going to work so many times in scrambles or in neutral. Save it for when you think they might not be looking for it anymore or when you really don't have any other choice. It's better to just defend and tech -- or even just take the throw -- rather than be punished for massive damage.

Overall, the same problem persists with Cammy as with Karin: You play frantically when your opponent is playing frantically. Just relax and keep your composure. React to what's happening instead of committing to an action before you know what your opponent is doing. Once you know, then you commit. It's OK to just hang back, relax, defend, punish if possible, and collect information on your opponent and the matchup. I saw you bait out a few jump-ins -- one in particular you cleanly anti-aired with standing HK. Keep that up! If your opponent is just going to keep giving you those types of opportunities, just let them. If they can't be trained into playing your game, just let them kill themselves trying to play theirs.

Click to expand...

I was also told I play like I am not comfortable with the characters as well. I'll try to keep those in mind.

Two ranked sets of my own:

vs Vega

This dude I know is a good player. I just couldn't get anything started. There are a couple of standouts, though: for one, I didn't anti-air enough. I did get some spikes in but for the most part he gets away with jumping too many times. In general, though, I should've gone in far more. He wasn't anti-airing me either too much.

vs Zangief

This was a grueling set. Standouts include trying to punish hard punches with dps for maximum greed. But the good thing was that my antiairs were quite on point and I was mostly good at keeping Gief out. The second round for the first match saw me going in a bit after screwing up the first round and a good share of the second round. I knew it was risky but on the other hand, I was at a massive life loss and wanted some advantage so Gief won't just sit on his lifelead for the whole match.

If there's something I haven't noticed, someone could check those clips. But mostly I'm just writing these notes for myself in public.

I also notice the mic audio is amazingly early but you can mute the audio. The game audio is fine, though.