Thank you!
Sorry for taking so long.
I would say most intense combat happens inside the arenas. But there are a lot of enemies scattered between levels in late game. At the beginning not so much.
Amazing, even the infamous arcade is back. lol
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Doom review codes not getting sent out until launch day?
- Thread starter AHA-Lambda
- Start date
Amazing, even the infamous arcade is back. lol
southerncross
Member
Too bad this Doom has very little of the former.
It's irritating how reboot threads always go the same way people who have no idea what made the originals work saying stuff like "well it has shotguns and demons, looks like Doom to me". The original Doom has very little in common with "tunnels and arenas" style of faux-oldschool shooters made these days. Level design, weapon design and monster design made every encounter in E4 or Plutonia an exhilarating puzzle. From what I've seen, this looks more like a Painkiller type of deal, circlestrafe and watch the carnage happen. Which is alright if you're looking for that, but stop acting like everyone should be happy with that.
MiguelItUp
Member
I most definitely do. But honestly when it comes to thoroughly judging level design, I'm more picky with multiplayer maps. It's something that has lingered with me ever since I played Quake multiplayer repeatedly, even more so when I literally put years into Quake II. When it comes to single player / campaign experiences, I'm more concerned about the overall flow of the campaign itself. There's been a number of FPS titles I've played over the years that had forgettable level design in their campaigns, but I still thoroughly enjoyed them in the end. The Darkness, Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay, Wolfenstein: TNO / TOB, Dishonored, Timeshift, are just a few that come to mind. Sure, you might've seen some awesome or gorgeous environments. But their architecture was never burned into my mind, just multiple segments from the campaign that I enjoyed.
Raptomex
Member
Level design is important, sure, but when I think of Wolf and Doom I think of shooting a ton of baddies with awesome weapons. TNO had some amazing combat and gameplay. At least I thought so.
Plutonia was not made by id Software, it was Team TNT.
There is lot's of lock room arenas on classic DOOM and classic mods (wads).
But don't be afraid my fellow doomer, there is lot's of exploration on this DOOM, even more than DOOM3.
It's not just arenas
DJ Lushious
Member
I can't speak on the quality of this new Doom and there's a GAFfer here that is playing it and liking it, but I really don't understand why MachineGames hasn't taken over this IP. They've shown they "get it," while still being able to bring in new game sensibilities.
Well, that's up to Bethesda, and Machine Games is presumably the studio working on a sequel to Wolf14.
Because they're making a sequel to The New Order, as Anya's voice actress spilled the beans on it.
Bloodporne
Member
That's my fundamental problem then here. I was never a MP FPS guy and always played the single player only besides the odd LAN Doom match once in a blue moon back then. I find that style of level design, or lack of real in-depth level design depending on your viewpoint, to be unbearable and boring as hell. The old FPS used to be my favorite genre and are some of my favorite games to this day but it looks like the evolution of it just left me behind, period. I think I've gotten old to the point where my definition of 'old school' is too literal.
Raptomex
Member
I'm not a multiplayer guy myself. I never play multiplayer in any game. However, I'm big into the action. I do prefer more open levels like the original games to a linear design. From wgat I'm seeing it looks like the action is going to deliver and I've been impressed with the environments and art design so we'll see.
A good example of this is Serious Sam. The levels are huge, not confusing, but can you really say they're designed exceptionally well? They are more or less giant rooms that throw waves and waves of enemies at you. I don't mind because I get to shoot a ton of shit. While that almost defines my idea of arena combat, when it comes to Doom I just expect tons of demons to blow away, secret areas, badass music, and awesome guns.
As for people complaining about enemies spawning in, if I remember the original stories correctly, UAC was fucking around with teleportation and opened a portal to Hell on Mars. Something like that. I think that was the overall basis for D3. I'm pretty sure teleportation has always been involved.
MiguelItUp
Member
Not to mention when you played on Nightmare on 1/2 enemies would spawn / teleport in all the time. So that honestly doesn't concern me at all. Also, I agree with what you said about maps and what not. DOOM 1/2 had quite a few open areas on a number of maps, some were even multiple corridors / tunnels connected to larger areas. Of course the open areas would vary in size, but large open areas are not new to the series. We've seen a LOT of open areas in official footage that they've shown. However in the pieces of leaked gameplay I've seen here and there, corridors are definitely existent.
Jakartalado
Member
I think you guys lost the ideia of this game.
Bethesda is not doing Doom for Call of Duty/Halo fans. The level design proves something very different.
This image is very popular here at Gaf. I can confirm, every single player map is at least 3 times bigger than the original image. I'll post the map of one level tonight.
You can finish some levels in 20 minutes (I believe someone will do it, 30 min seems more realistic), but every level takes me 1 hour to collect every single secret and vanish every single enemy (it counts in the combat rating to unlock weapon upgrades).
Bethesda is not doing Doom for Call of Duty/Halo fans. The level design proves something very different.
This image is very popular here at Gaf. I can confirm, every single player map is at least 3 times bigger than the original image. I'll post the map of one level tonight.
You can finish some levels in 20 minutes (I believe someone will do it, 30 min seems more realistic), but every level takes me 1 hour to collect every single secret and vanish every single enemy (it counts in the combat rating to unlock weapon upgrades).
The perfect Dark
Banned
Are there checkpoints or do you have to replay the level when you die?
mdsfx
Member
What coupon?
Voost Kain
Banned
Is it better than DOom 3?
It was a $5 Amazon app coupon on Facebook. The game came out to $46 in total due to Amazon's pre-order discount.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
damn, i wonder why Amazon isn't releasing mine till tuesday.
oh well, i'm going to be balls deep in trying to finish a handful of other games so waiting 4 days can help spread things out a little bit.
Ixion
Member
TNO encouraged the player to stop a lot more than the new DOOM will. Partially regenerating health, hitscan enemies (i.e. enemies with guns that hit instantly), aiming-down-sights, a cover mechanic, cut-scene interruptions, and the need to look down and click on pickups.
None of those gameplay mechanics are inherently bad, but they do encourage less movement. The new DOOM isn't foregoing some modern mechanics just for nostalgia and old-school cred. It's doing it because the goal of the game is constant movement. The player can run, aim, and shoot all at once and stay in the battle at all times.
The entire goal of the new DOOM is to provide a "constant movement combat puzzle". That's partially due to the mixing and matching of the various weapons with the various enemies, who all pose a different type of threat. But that's also due the level design. Yes, the new DOOM has arena sections, but the arenas are much more elaborate than Painkiller. There's a lot of platforming, shortcuts, secrets, power-ups, portals, jump pads, etc.
I do think the combat in the new DOOM could very well surpass the original Doom. On the other hand, the overall level design probably won't be quite as good. The levels are still mostly open-ended, with secrets, so there are similarities though.
In addition, as I went over above, the core mechanics of combat are surprisingly true to the original game. Also, the tone of this game seems to be pretty close to the original. Lastly, the story is non-intrusive, so the player isn't being interrupted, just like the original. Overall, there's a lot in common.
capylikesgames
Banned
Ah, you're right. Hadn't thought about it that way. Embargo could've easily been set 'til launch. Hm.
Good point. A real shame, honestly.
Thinking that ADS is a modern improvement that all first person shooters should have is a very wrongheaded idea. The market has room for multiple different styles, and Doom staying away from the ADS mechanic that many people, including myself, feel is a strong detriment to modern shooter design is absolutely a good thing.
As many in this thread have already stated, the primary (and massive) problem with ADS is that it encourages moving OR aiming, not moving AND aiming. For a fan of older shooters like Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 like myself, the fun in a shooter comes from dodging projectiles, quickly dashing and jumping around the map, and trying to make smart, quick decisions about where to place your rockets. Modern shooters like CoD put much more emphasis on simply aiming from a good position due to ADS and it's been a real plague on the genre, taking much of the kinetic, frantic action out of new shooters. Doom staunchly refusing to put in ADS is a declaration of the type of game it is. Doom isn't forgetting the lessons of modern shooters, it's remembering what made old shooters so great.
For another modern example of wonderful shooter design that eschews awful ADS mechanics, take a look at Overwatch. It's some of the most fun I've had in an objective based multiplayer shooter in years, and one of the reasons for that is the emphasis on moving and shooting, rather than just aiming.
I think this is, along with Jak's impressions, are what sold me on the game. If fellow PC gamers are worried about the speed and intensity, checkout this video.
GTX 1080 gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okb3RVe2vbA
I think it sold me on a GTX 1080 as well.
GTX 1080 gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okb3RVe2vbA
I think it sold me on a GTX 1080 as well.
Grim Patron
Member
There are checkpoints. Also you can't manually save when you want to. It is just checkpoints. Once you complete a level, it gives you the option of save and exit though. 3 save slots on PS4 for campaign. So you can have 3 parallel playthroughs if you want. Can change difficulty mid game as well from the looks of it. Ill test then when I play more later.
designgears
Banned
$35 over at cdkeys... always a bit a risk buying those tho..
http://www.cdkeys.com/pc/games/doom-pc-cd-key-steam
The perfect Dark
Banned
Thanks, sounds good!
90% of the time this is bad news about how a game is going to turn out. Sure 10% of the time with great developed you would say it's to avoid leaks about it and you could safely say the game will be great regardless... This doesn't fell line one of those times, but I hope I'm wrong.
JetSetRadio
Banned
Not surprised, beta was shite, SP could save it.
designgears
Banned
DJ Lushious
Member
Diferentigual
Banned
I think level design is important, but in single player maybe not as much. Gameplay, story, etc. are more important to me. I liked the linearity of TNO because I have been tired of open world games at this point. It was refreshing to play a shooter with a story and with linear levels. I think it made it more focused in an era where every game tries to be open world.
Holy crap, I had not seen this. That was great, except for the constant map checking.
Fallout-NL
Member
damn
Raptomex
Member
When it comes to ADS I'm one of those guys that feels it should be in every FPS, however it should be optional and not really affect gameplay. TNO got it right. I only feel like it should be in because I always feel like if I was shooting a gun in reality I would be looking down the sights. But not including them is never a game breaker for me. Doom has yet to have them and it's still my favorite FPS franchise.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Do you really have time for accuracy when there's a demon clawing at your throat tho
MiguelItUp
Member
Yeah, when I originally watched the video I figured it was fat-fingering a map button or something. Felt like an accident for the most part, horribly timing too, lol.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
yeah to me it almost seemed like he was accidentally hitting the map button or something.
either way i'm crazy excited for the game now. i didn't like Doom 3 but this looks like it's right up my alley.
I don't know how anybody can watch that and say that it shares any DNA whatsoever with Call of Duty or even Halo.
Muffdraul
Member
Same here, I'm quite confident that I'll enjoy Doom a lot more than Wolfenstein.
World SkiFree
Member
Noted and good to know.
GodParticle
Member
TNO was very well produced, but it had awful pacing in parts. I'm hoping this is just balls out action from start to finish
peanutbutterlatte
Member
It's a fantastic port, and I love the controls. Sorry.
I just wanted a physical copy so I could get dat alternate cover.
So all version have that art on the flip side?
Bloodporne
Member
I appreciate you guys' answers. It certainly explains why you guys are so psyched about this while my reaction is what it is.
I can't say I'm a fan of Serious Sam either. It always reminded me of a dumbed down version of Doom aka Doom without the smart level design and placements that made it so endlessly replayable. Doom 3 just took too many missteps for me to properly enjoy. I've tried it over and over and can't ever seem to get myself to actually beat the thing out of boredom. It was impressive when it came out for many reasons but the actual gameplay was a letdown.
Because other than that vid, every other vid of gameplay + the beta has looked like cod/halo.
Coincidentally, that's also the only vid I can find of the game running on PC with KB/M
I found both games Doom 1 and 2 to play surprisingly well on the 360 with controller. The d-pad makes weapon switching super easy. Never would have known the aspect ratio was a bit off until you mentioned it. I know it's obviously not going to beat playing it on PC, but it's the best port of Doom for a console.
Collateral22
Member
Some SP impressions from jackfrags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLToGa1bNFc
He is playing on the PS4 version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLToGa1bNFc
He is playing on the PS4 version.
Yes, the disc isn't anywhere close to holding all the data for this game
Similar threads
- Locked