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Snowybreak · Oct 3, 2016

-Mutsukki- said:
I don't think that's even relevant, any name I drop won't even matter to you because you don't know these people. The only statement I'm making is that, in my humble opinion, I don't think safe spaces are something that should be enforced everywhere. I find it utopic and a bit misguided. I didn't paint any group, I was sharing my experiences with the kind of people that advocate for this stuff. Like I said, I really used to be all in favor of stuff like that, but I got really disappointed along the way. All I'm doing is giving a personal input on why I think Holmes isn't wrong at all in what he said.

Ok, let's try this again. No one (who is rational) is calling for safe spaces to always be enforced at every location everywhere. The point of what Oni was saying is that the article misses the point. It's worded with the assumption that there are all these people calling for extra enforcement, when in actuality, it's just a guy bitching about an invisible bogeyman for the sake of bitching.

A Link to the Past · Oct 3, 2016

MikeyB said:
This is where I'm really lost, because the world is full of horror and if I'm speaking with adults and we are having a serious discussion, I fully expect that we should be able to bring up those topics. (Caveats: Making jokes about that horror is pretty obviously tasteless and insensitive depending on the audience and you shouldn't follow a "How you doin'?" with a "Do you ever think about how many people Stalin killed?" or "Did you know that Saddam's executioners used to mail a bill for the bullet to the family of the executed?").

But given the normal flow of an online or in person conversation, it seems unlikely people will be surprised by the comments of posts, so I have no idea why trigger warnings are necessary.

Uh

Trigger warnings, as a matter of fact, don't exist in a situation where discussion does not exist. I have no idea whatsoever why you think that letting people know what you're about to talk about constitutes people telling you that you're not allowed to bring up topics. Given that this is your takeaway from "trigger warnings," I am not surprised that you feel lost, because you really missed the point. Trigger warnings allow people to know what they are getting into, and as such, can choose to engage when they are feeling most able to do so.

-Mutsukki- said:
I don't think that's even relevant, any name I drop won't even matter to you because you don't know these people. The only statement I'm making is that, in my humble opinion, I don't think safe spaces are something that should be enforced everywhere. I find it utopic and a bit misguided. I didn't paint any group, I was sharing my experiences with the kind of people that advocate for this stuff. Like I said, I really used to be all in favor of stuff like that, but I got really disappointed along the way. All I'm doing is giving a personal input on why I think Holmes isn't wrong at all in what he said.

Because if you're just naming vague situations that you've been involved in, it means literally nothing. Not only do I not know that you have any actual exposure with any safe spaces, I have no idea if your interpretation of circle jerk behavior or "anti-white" behavior is bias.

MikeyB · Oct 3, 2016

A Link to the Past said:
Uh

Trigger warnings, as a matter of fact, don't exist in a situation where discussion does not exist. I have no idea whatsoever why you think that letting people know what you're about to talk about constitutes people telling you that you're not allowed to bring up topics. Given that this is your takeaway from "trigger warnings," I am not surprised that you feel lost, because you really missed the point. Trigger warnings allow people to know what they are getting into, and as such, can choose to engage when they are feeling most able to do so.

... so trigger warnings are really just providing context for the discussion? Like, a thread title "Stalin still king of killing" would suffice for my example? Obviously, what is going to be raised in the course of a discussion can't be fully anticipated, so advance warnings may be imprecise and at some point, telling someone you are going to talk about x actually is talking about x.

As a side point, disclosure is increasingly recognized as a weak form of regulatory protection, so I doubt its efficacy in trigger warning, but the thought is nice, I guess.

A Link to the Past · Oct 3, 2016

MikeyB said:
... so trigger warnings are really just providing context for the discussion? Like, a thread title "Stalin still king of killing" would suffice for my example? Obviously, what is going to be raised in the course of a discussion can't be fully anticipated, so advance warnings may be imprecise and at some point, telling someone you are going to talk about x actually is talking about x.

As a side point, disclosure is increasingly recognized as a weak form of regulatory protection, so I doubt its efficacy in trigger warning, but the thought is nice, I guess.

If you write about rape in a post, you only need to write "TW: Rape." Trigger warnings are absolutely the most offensive thing to so many people while also being one of the simplest things to use.

Morrigan Stark · Oct 3, 2016

Whom_Gods_Annoy said:
I have class now but your responses have been gold (taking offense to me using man, a throwaway word you need to want to be offended by)

No, you wrote "your [sic] the guy" which is definitely misgendering in a way that saying "sorry man" or "thanks guys" isn't. Nice try though?

openrob · Oct 3, 2016

Enter The 36 Chambers said:
No matter how much I read I never seem to understand what the hell people are actually talking about.

I am glad I'm not the only one.

DedValve · Oct 3, 2016

archseraph said:
Am I missing something or is this not posted in Gaming Discussion? I mean, a videogame website did post this article but the vast majority of this discussion is not really specifically relating to gaming. It's kind of telling that one of these posts I'm quoting doesn't even realize what section this thread is actually in. Well I guess posting this here doesn't do much and notifying a mod to move this thread would be better. Or is this topic actually in the right section and my thread listing is bugged?

I think you are missing something because there is nobody stopping you from reading this title, passing then clicking on a jimquisition thread or a PSVR thread or what have you.

Your free to talk about videogames as you wish and there are even tools to hide threads with certain trigger words. Usually when people say "I just wanna talk about games man" they are totally ignoring the fact that games are political while at the same time trying to shut down meaningful conversation because they don't want to hear it.

I'm not saying you are doing this but generally thats what a lot of people who said those exact words mean. Again feel free to talk about videogames but don't be annoyed that we are discussing politics within or about the industry.

Snowybreak · Oct 3, 2016

openrob said:
I am glad I'm not the only one.

I'd (in an actual respectful manner) encourage you to read through the thread. It's pretty good. And if you're confused about the term "safe space", myself and others have given pretty detailed explanations of the connotations associated with that word.

Budi · Oct 3, 2016

I really don't have anything intelligent to add in this heated discussion but my own opinion. From my understanding safe spaces sound great. It's nice for people to not be bothered by assholes atleast sometimes. I see no harm in that. But ofcourse I still want these assholes to share their views somewhere so I can spot them and judge them accordingly. We shouldn't take every platform from these people. But if Neogaf for example would become a safe space, I wouldn't riot against it. If goverment would start to hide/ban this "discussion" I would have a problem with it and it wouldn't do any good to brush it under a carpet.

A Link to the Past · Oct 3, 2016

Whom_Gods_Annoy said:
I have my argument and my stance on the topic right in my first post.

I have class now but your responses have been gold (taking offense to me using man, a throwaway word you need to want to be offended by) and proves my point. Please continue acussing me of stalking you.

In conclusion, I *gasp* more or less agree with you but your argumentative style is a major turn off to me and prevents compromise and agreement with others.

Well try me then. I think that your use of gendered terminology is inappropriate when used to refer to certain people, even if unintentional. I find even more inappropriate that instead of apologizing, you double down and accuse people of engaging in outrage culture practices. Ekai literally replied to your use of gendered terminology - calling someone "the guy" is calling them a guy - in, at most, an annoyed tone. Which apparently offended you (or if you're too offended by being accused of being offended, do you want a different terminology to avoid you becoming a circle of offense?).

Snowybreak · Oct 3, 2016

Budi said:
I really don't have anything intelligent to add in this heated discussion but my own opinion. From my understanding safe spaces sound great. It's nice for people to not be bothered by assholes atleast sometimes. I see no harm in that. But ofcourse I still want these assholes to share their views somewhere so I can spot them and judge them accordingly. We shouldn't take every platform from these people. But if Neogaf for example would become a safe space, I wouldn't riot against it. If goverment would start to hide/ban this "discussion" I would have a problem with it and it wouldn't do any good to brush it under a carpet.

Actually, NeoGAF is a safe space! It's a place where bigotry and discriminatory beliefs are not tolerated and are removed through diligent moderation. That is what a safe space is.

EmiPrime · Oct 3, 2016

-Mutsukki- said:
I don't think that's even relevant, any name I drop won't even matter to you because you don't know these people. The only statement I'm making is that, in my humble opinion, I don't think safe spaces are something that should be enforced everywhere. I find it utopic and a bit misguided. I didn't paint any group, I was sharing my experiences with the kind of people that advocate for this stuff. Like I said, I really used to be all in favor of stuff like that, but I got really disappointed along the way. All I'm doing is giving a personal input on why I think Holmes isn't wrong at all in what he said.

You don't seem to know what a safe space is. They can't be "enforced" and they can't be "everywhere" by design.

Just like political correctness it seems safe space gets moaned about all the time by those who don't understand what it even means. Not being able to make kitchen jokes to women or being asked not to use racist language is "PC gone made" and having bog standard rules of conduct or having an equality/diversity policy is confused with safe spaces.

Rappy · Oct 3, 2016

DedValve said:
I think you are missing something because there is nobody stopping you from reading this title, passing then clicking on a jimquisition thread or a PSVR thread or what have you.

To be honest, I only posted in this thread because of your post (partly on curiosity if this thread was somehow crossposted). I clicked on this thread to read replies and people's thoughts specifically on the article or their perspective on the issue as a gamer. Which some posts do that. While others, in my personal opinion, do not and are not completely on-topic to me.

You yourself mistook this thread for being in a different section. To me, it seems as though it is a bit of a gray area on where these threads belong. I'm just trying to hold users to a higher posting standard, but I guess I'll try to stop doing that and wash my hands of this thread as it does somewhat derail and some users get extremely upset (such as one of the users I also quoted)

Lady Gaia · Oct 3, 2016

Snowybreak said:
Actually, NeoGAF is a safe space!

While it may not meet any kind of formal criteria, I agree that NeoGAF feels like a very welcoming place compared to most of the gaming communities out there. I suspect it's no coincidence that it's also one of the largest, oldest, and most respected. Once I finally found my way here I was very impressed with how well-moderated it is with room for plenty of respectful disagreements while maintaining a low tolerance for racism, homophobia, transphobia, and misogyny.

DedValve · Oct 3, 2016

archseraph said:
To be honest, I only posted in this thread because of your post (partly on curiosity if this thread was somehow crossposted). I clicked on this thread to read replies and people's thoughts specifically on the article or their perspective on the issue as a gamer. Which some posts do that. While others, in my personal opinion, do not and are not completely on-topic to me.

You yourself mistook this thread for being in a different section. To me, it seems as though it is a bit of a gray area on where these threads belong. I'm just trying to hold users to a higher posting standard, but I guess I'll try to stop doing that and wash my hands of this thread as it does somewhat derail and some users get extremely upset (such as one of the users I also quoted)

-See edit-

I do believe that these are on topic gaming discussions. Especially when its a major VG news outlet like Destructoid.

I'm not sure why you care to hold users to a "higher standard" and what those standards are if they aren't about politics in gaming.

You should let the mods worry about where threads belong, they move threads between the two topics all the time. If a thread is open and stays that means its where it belongs.

EDIT: Regarding the off topic comment. Whoops was reading a different comment. Yeah I got confused primarily because I go back and forth between several threads and usually leave the tab open on the reply. I have a disgusting habit of just opening threads and opening them and reading only like a few but never closing any.

Mobius and pet octopus · Oct 4, 2016

People are mostly talking past each other. I don't even think there is a consensus on what a safe space is or would be on a forum, let alone a news outlet. These discussions would be a lot better if there was a lot less snark from some people. Honestly it kinda triggers me how often some people derail threads with off the wall analogies and highly sarcastic responses to people who put a lot of time and thought into a well written response, even if I don't agree with the well written comment. I like it when people take the time to flesh out their thoughts and I hate it when they are responded to with drive by posts that the poster than later hastily defends as if their intent was clear when it absolutely was not because they didn't take a minute to respond as any normal human would (they're basically shit posting).

Anyway, my main point is that there is a lot of confusion, and even in the article itself appears to be somewhat ambiguous as to the writer's intent. It's a poorly written article. It doesn't even deserve to be discussed imho. (the article, not the thread... the thread is a fine topic to discuss)

Pellegri Testament · Oct 4, 2016

Snowybreak said:
Actually, NeoGAF is a safe space! It's a place where bigotry and discriminatory beliefs are not tolerated and are removed through diligent moderation. That is what a safe space is.

And it's a better place for that. Meanwhile I can go to any other major gaming forum and see Gamergaters, Trump supporters, and all the other gutter trash that makes me question just what the mods do on said forums. It's one thing to have differing opinions and be wanting to voice them in a civilized manner, it's another to be a shit tier human being that does nothing but put down others. Trash should be taken out, not given a platform to speak on.

-Mutsukki- · Oct 4, 2016

Pellegri Testament said:
And it's a better place for that. Meanwhile I can go to any other major gaming forum and see Gamergaters, Trump supporters, and all the other gutter trash that makes me question just what the mods do on said forums. It's one thing to have differing opinions and be wanting to voice them in a civilized manner, it's another to be a shit tier human being that does nothing but put down others. Trash should be taken out, not given a platform to speak on.

I mean, this is what I was talking about. I absolutely despise Gamergaters and I can't even believe people support Trump non-ironically. But still, it's seems very weird to me that a forum is expected to not have people who agree with that. People have their reasons and should be able to voice their opinion (in a non-bigoted and non-offensive manner) even if they disagree with you. While 90% of Gamergaters I met were trash, I was able to hear them out and decide that for myself. The other 10% were actual nice people that I just really disagree with.

Lime · Oct 4, 2016

-Mutsukki- said:
I mean, this is what I was talking about. I absolutely despise Gamergaters and I can't even believe people support Trump non-ironically. But still, it's seems very weird to me that a forum is expected to not have people who agree with that. People have their reasons and should be able to voice their opinion (in a non-bigoted and non-offensive manner) even if they disagree with you. While 90% of Gamergaters I met were trash, I was able to hear them out and decide that for myself. The other 10% were actual nice people that I just really disagree with.

How can you expect to have a conversation with someone who doesn't even consider you a human being? And that's not even addressing the chilling effect it creates by allowing hateful speech to propagate and fester.

You see what un-moderated spaces become after a certain amount of time - the asylum is run by the inmates: Reddit, 4chan, RPGCodex, youtube comments, comments sections almost everywhere, and on and on.

It's not about shutting down discourse, it's about fostering a hospitable environment and creating a baseline for all participants.

A Link to the Past · Oct 4, 2016

-Mutsukki- said:
I mean, this is what I was talking about. I absolutely despise Gamergaters and I can't even believe people support Trump non-ironically. But still, it's seems very weird to me that a forum is expected to not have people who agree with that. People have their reasons and should be able to voice their opinion (in a non-bigoted and non-offensive manner) even if they disagree with you. While 90% of Gamergaters I met were trash, I was able to hear them out and decide that for myself. The other 10% were actual nice people that I just really disagree with.

Would you describe yourself as someone who is specifically and constantly the kind of person who is targeted by GamerGate and its members?

-Mutsukki- · Oct 4, 2016

Lime said:
How can you expect to have a conversation with someone who doesn't even consider you a human being? And that's not even addressing the chilling effect it creates by allowing hateful speech to propagate and fester.

You see what un-moderated spaces become after a certain amount of time - the asylum is run by the inmates: Reddit, 4chan, RPGCodex, youtube comments, comments sections almost everywhere, and on and on.

It's not about shutting down discourse, it's about fostering a hospitable environment and creating a baseline for all participants.

I'm not vouching for unmoderated spaces, but you think everyone who supports Trump and maybe think GG is right can't have a civil conversation? I don't think preemptive moderation is a good solution.

A Link to the Past said:
Would you describe yourself as someone who is specifically and constantly the kind of person who is targeted by GamerGate and its members?

Well, when I was pretty vocal about being anti-GG people would randomly come to bother me on twitter whenever I said the word. Nowadays? No, I want to be very far from absolutely everything that's related to it.

I know this is pretty light compared to stuff people have to put up with GG, but I'm simply answering the question.

A Link to the Past · Oct 4, 2016

-Mutsukki- said:
I'm not vouching for unmoderated spaces, but you think everyone who supports Trump and maybe think GG is right can't have a civil conversation? I don't think preemptive moderation is a good solution.

Well, when I was pretty vocal about being anti-GG people would randomly come to bother me on twitter whenever I said the word. Nowadays? No, I want to be very far from absolutely everything that's related to it.

I know this is pretty light compared to stuff people have to put up with GG, but I'm simply answering the question.

To which I would then say that you are in a pretty awesome position to be criticizing a group that has engaged in a fair amount of harassment of people for things they were born with, not their opinions.

Adam Prime · Oct 4, 2016

Lol this us what I read:

"Everyone should be allowed to express their beliefs. Unless, those beliefs are bigoted and full of hate."

Uhhh, no you DONT think everyone should be allowed to express their beliefs. Obviously were not okay with people being ugly. The problem is the razor edge between "hate" and "not approving".

A Link to the Past · Oct 4, 2016

Adam Prime said:
Lol this us what I read:

"Everyone should be allowed to express their beliefs. Unless, those beliefs are bigoted and full of hate."

Uhhh, no you DONT think everyone should be allowed to express their beliefs. Obviously were not okay with people being ugly. The problem is the razor edge between "hate" and "not approving".

I'm not sure what you're saying.

SkeptiMism · Oct 4, 2016

archseraph said:
To be honest, I only posted in this thread because of your post (partly on curiosity if this thread was somehow crossposted). I clicked on this thread to read replies and people's thoughts specifically on the article or their perspective on the issue as a gamer. Which some posts do that. While others, in my personal opinion, do not and are not completely on-topic to me.

You yourself mistook this thread for being in a different section. To me, it seems as though it is a bit of a gray area on where these threads belong. I'm just trying to hold users to a higher posting standard, but I guess I'll try to stop doing that and wash my hands of this thread as it does somewhat derail and some users get extremely upset (such as one of the users I also quoted)

Nobody got extremely upset at your derail. Saying your first post in the thread was bullshit isn't being extremely upset or even upset at all. Like, if I tell a bigot spouting bullshit to fuck off, it doesn't mean I'm upset, I'm telling that the bullshit is not ok (and to be clear, this is just an analogy, not calling you a bigot).

It's also worth noting that your post was completely off topic (as is this post to be fair). Holding users to higher standards is ok, but you might wanna look in the mirror too, no offense (and yes, I try to do that to myself too).

nasanu · Oct 4, 2016

gaboumafou said:
Hope you fon't get insulted by spoken words. It's just air vibration.

I don't. It really strange that people do. Why does anyone care what random idiots say? If perhaps some insult, some insightful truth based insult comes from someone I have some respect for then sure, I would be insulted. But some random person saying something?... I don't care, it doesn't effect me in the slightest and I can't see any convincing argument why sane well balanced person should chose to let it affect them.

Oh and can anyone explain where the danger is here? A safe place can only be safe if it harbours from danger. What dangers are people facing?

Platy · Oct 4, 2016

Adam Prime said:
Lol this us what I read:

"Everyone should be allowed to express their beliefs. Unless, those beliefs are bigoted and full of hate."

Uhhh, no you DONT think everyone should be allowed to express their beliefs. Obviously were not okay with people being ugly. The problem is the razor edge between "hate" and "not approving".

I am more of a "everyone can express their beliefs and receive the proper reaction/consequences" which means that if you expressed hate, you will be banned/arrested/complained/trown out.

A Link to the Past · Oct 4, 2016

nasanu said:
I don't. It really strange that people do. Why does anyone care what random idiots say? If perhaps some insult, some insightful truth based insult comes from someone I have some respect for then sure, I would be insulted. But some random person saying something?... I don't care, it doesn't effect me in the slightest and I can't see any convincing argument why sane well balanced person should chose to let it affect them.

Oh and can anyone explain where the danger is here? A safe place can only be safe if it harbours from danger. What dangers are people facing?

I mean, dismissing people whose values are different than yours as not being sane (rather than you simply being too ignorant to see where they are coming from) is one example of why people would sooner have a place where they can safely discuss issues that other people may insult, harass, and/or threaten them over having discussed.

As for the dangers, refer to my above statements on threats and harassment. An open forum on certain issues such as rape and the like allows for abusers to interject, often posing as people who are acting in good faith. Another example would be a safe space for black people where they can safely discuss issues that affect them without "#AllLivesMatter" popping up.

peanutbutterlatte · Oct 4, 2016

Jonathan Holmes always seemed gleefully ignorant, be it for comedy or ridicule.

Budi · Oct 4, 2016

Snowybreak said:
Actually, NeoGAF is a safe space! It's a place where bigotry and discriminatory beliefs are not tolerated and are removed through diligent moderation. That is what a safe space is.

I was wondering that myself. But was thinking that even when users get banned for stepping the line, the posts aren't removed. So it wouldn't count. Though it's very possible that most vile posts have been removed and I just don't know about it.

Every work place should be a safe space too imo. It's horrible when people don't feel welcomed in a place they need to be 40 hours a week to sustain themselves. I don't belong to any minority myself, but I've heard some racists remarks at my workplace just quite recently. From two different people even. I was bewildered, usually I encounter lines like "I'm no racist I just don't like... insert slurs" only in the internet. The other younger one I've called out multiple times for his inapproriorate behaviour, that also includes sexist behaviour, or horny. Not sure what to call it but highly inapproriate and frankly disgusting. Other one is much older than me and I'm not going to start educate my elders. I think he is already a lost cause anyway.

Looking through the comments on the article, it doesn't seem to have any hateful messages. Plenty of people speaking against safe spaces though. Why did the author think that this article was needed? Anyone more familiar with destructoid and it's reader base? Also it's hard for me to take those "I don't want a safe space, I don't want to be cuddled." posts as a valid argumentation against it when I don't know if they belong to any minority themselves. Since ofcourse you don't need a safe space when you aren't the one being discriminated or persecuted. I should find something where Stephen Fry criticizes them, according to wikipedia he does. But even if there are designated safe spaces, there's still hate and people are living with it every day. Why not allow people a place where they are treated as equals.

HappyBivouac · Oct 4, 2016

Uh is it just me or a lot of people misreading this?

Call me crazy but I read this as a not so subtle reversal against gamergaters and such. The article pretty directly points out the fact that the "bad boy's club" of the gaming community is quick to criticize safe spaces and trigger warnings and "SJWs" and the like, not realizing that they themselves want to be shielded from any criticism or dissenting views. All the stuff about attempts to publicly humiliate and stifle others seems pointed straight at those sections of the gaming community. I might be wrong, but I think the guy is trying to say we should be free to address the problems of misogynism, racism, rape culture, etc. on gaming websites like anywhere else.

Again, if I'm off the mark, feel free to point out why. I'm not a regular reader of Destructoid or really any other gaming news/blog website, so I don't have a need to rush to defend them.

Angry Fork · Oct 4, 2016

Why don't you just not read comment sections you know are going to be bad. If I don't feel like being annoyed by right wing cesspool's then I just avoid them. I don't know how people can be stressed/offended by what random assholes say online and still survive in the real world.

Doc_Drop · Oct 4, 2016

Platy said:
I am more of a "everyone can express their beliefs and receive the proper reaction/consequences" which means that if you expressed hate, you will be banned/arrested/complained/trown out.

But then people are still being abused/bullied,the effect of which stays with the victim. I was under the impression safe spaces are for people to have a sanctuary from the abuse in the first place

KORNdoggy · Oct 4, 2016

Angry Fork said:
Why don't you just not read comment sections you know are going to be bad. If I don't feel like being annoyed by right wing cesspool's then I just avoid them. I don't know how people can be stressed/offended by what random assholes say online and still survive in the real world.

because they're not comparable. in what real world do you live in were hundreds of people can anonymously attack others with no repercussions?

the anonymity is the difference, and it's the reason the internet is as dangerous as it is. in person, face to face, people tend not to be so vocal about their feelings good or bad. online, with only an alias, and you see a different side to everyone. those insults you may get once in a while walking down the street is a drop in the ocean compared to the shit you get online. it's why people tend to stick to these "safe spaces" and it's why it's important to have them.

Budi · Oct 4, 2016

KORNdoggy said:
because they're not comparable. in what real world do you live in were hundreds of people can anonymously attack others with no repercussions?

the anonymity is the difference, and it's the reason the internet is as dangerous as it is. in person, face to face, people tend not to be so vocal about their feelings good or bad. online, with only an alias, and you see a different side to everyone. those insults you may get once in a while walking down the street is a drop in the ocean compared to the shit you get online. it's why people tend to stick to these "safe spaces" and it's why it's important to have them.

I also don't understand how internet isn't part of the real world. I'm assuming I'm having a discussion with real people in NeoGAF. So I show the same respect to people on the internet and face to face. Because why not, just because people can't punch my teeth in when on the web? Fearing for retaliation isn't the reason why I avoid being a dick. Being a decent human being does it.

Maybe some of these problems come from people being delusional and thinking about internet as some kind of fantasy.

Whom_Gods_Annoy · Oct 4, 2016

A Link to the Past said:
Well try me then. I think that your use of gendered terminology is inappropriate when used to refer to certain people, even if unintentional. I find even more inappropriate that instead of apologizing, you double down and accuse people of engaging in outrage culture practices. Ekai literally replied to your use of gendered terminology - calling someone "the guy" is calling them a guy - in, at most, an annoyed tone. Which apparently offended you (or if you're too offended by being accused of being offended, do you want a different terminology to avoid you becoming a circle of offense?).

Morrigan Stark said:
No, you wrote "your [sic] the guy" which is definitely misgendering in a way that saying "sorry man" or "thanks guys" isn't. Nice try though?

That was my fault. I had thought they were talking about my use of man when I said, "I've been posting on the same threads as you man!" You are right and I was wrong on saying guy.

Please understand with my original post that I never meant to have an attack on Ekai's character, which is what they accuse me of and then ironically do to me, but rather an attack on their argumentative style.

openrob · Oct 4, 2016

Snowybreak said:
I'd (in an actual respectful manner) encourage you to read through the thread. It's pretty good. And if you're confused about the term "safe space", myself and others have given pretty detailed explanations of the connotations associated with that word.

Thanks for that. Again, not to sound condescending, it's just one of these things which seems to be thrown around a lot online, and in a variety of contexts. And seriously was actually glad that I wasn't the only one that found it, at times, confusing.

Wulfram · Oct 4, 2016

A Link to the Past said:
If you write about rape in a post, you only need to write "TW: Rape." Trigger warnings are absolutely the most offensive thing to so many people while also being one of the simplest things to use.

The confusion with the Total War series can be awkward in a video game context, if people aren't familiar with the terminology. I think its better to not use acronyms.

SkeptiMism · Oct 4, 2016

nasanu said:
I don't. It really strange that people do. Why does anyone care what random idiots say? If perhaps some insult, some insightful truth based insult comes from someone I have some respect for then sure, I would be insulted. But some random person saying something?... I don't care, it doesn't effect me in the slightest and I can't see any convincing argument why sane well balanced person should chose to let it affect them.

Oh and can anyone explain where the danger is here? A safe place can only be safe if it harbours from danger. What dangers are people facing?

This particularly is extremely well said and I hope you reflect on it:

A Link to the Past said:
I mean, dismissing people whose values are different than yours as not being sane (rather than you simply being too ignorant to see where they are coming from) is one example of why people would sooner have a place where they can safely discuss issues that other people may insult, harass, and/or threaten them over having discussed.

But besides that and the other things, honestly, nasanu, don't take this the bad way, but I really wish you get some empathy and understanding about human beings. I'm not sure if you can see it yourself, but at least going from your posts in this thread so far, you really sound like this incredibly cold person who is completely clueless as to how a lot of, or should I say even majority of humans work.

If you tell a random person completely out of the blue to fuck themself, it's quite likely that person won't just 100% calmly think about why you just told them to fuck themself. That person won't be able to analyze it completely neutrally without feeling anything at all, even if they decide to pass from reacting to you.

This is an extremely simple example, but hopefully it at least slightly makes you realize that most people aren't some machines who can ignore everything if it doesn't have any tangible effect on them. And when someone hears that shit all the time or even just a lot, it can get pretty tiring to most people.

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