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Will Final Fantasy VII's Re-introduction (Remake) Be Praised For Diversity)?

SOLDIER

Member
Maybe you skimmed over all the pictures in this thread of him talking like a stereotypical 70s black man. He's the only one who talks like that in the game as far as I know. There is an original arc dedicated to his character, but his general mannerisms and way of acting is definitely shitty. It's obvious that stuff could have been handled way better.

Maybe you skimmed over the fact that his dialogue was the result of the NA localization and not something the Japanese side of Square decided on.

All they have to do is remove that kind of speaking, which they've already done with his subsequent appearances (AC, Dirge, and from what we've seen the Remake won't have it either). With that gone, what else makes him offensive?
 
Meh, visually I love the diversity of the cast, like the OP said in both number of men, women, and other. It's a far cry from what XV is.

That said it won't be a beacon of diversity. It's a Japanese game, by typical Japanese people. If you want to see characters be an icon of diversity, it most certainly is not going to come out of a Japanese game company, especially if you want that diversity to reflect the western tropes being combated recently. Different part of the world, different mind set, different way of thinking.

That said, Barret needs to be completely overhauled. That is definitely a "this is what we think black people are like" character from the 90s in Japan and the translation into English showed the "Western" version of that same thinking. Love the guy's story, it really is interesting, but he needs work. I already know exactly what hes going to be like here in Japan, so this really is a good chance for SE's English speaking branches to put a good foot forward for this character and avoid a lot of the BS that could happen to his portrayal in the remake. And making him a rough speaking guy with sunglasses ain't it.

Same with Tifa and Aris. They need some tweaks too to modernize and take them out of the 90s.

.... Though one of my favorite scenes in the game is also the most nonsense. Tifa's slap fight on the cannon... shes a master martial artist who can wreck shop, but gets into a slap fight with a lady who has no combat skills... hilarious and I kinda want it back, but it really is dumb.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Heck no

But Barret is taking a lot of heat for something that was literally a product of FFVII's bottom tier localization. He wasn't a raging stereotype in the Japanese version, he was just your big rowdy asshole with a heart of gold, which is a pretty common set up in JRPGs.

He also happens to have an amazing character arc regardless of translation.
 
ryz68qwanlmozgsyalzu.png


Final+Fantasy+VII+Screenshot+39+bronco.jpg


Final+Fantasy+VII+Screenshot+34+shera.jpg


cid-final-fantasy-7.jpg


Anyway, you get the idea. People complaining about Barret should look at the other angry 30s something character in the party which happens to be white. Even Cid can be considered worse since he abuses Shera around. Sure, Barret talks the way he does, but his character is actually pretty good. The struggle he had, to have his village burned, eventually having to kill his friend and adopt his daughter. Even by the end he admits blowing the reactor was a terrible thing and he made suffer a lot of innocent people. If they just tone down his characterization, he will be the best character in the remake.

Regarding the girls, basically Aeris was a martyr to protect the planet, although she had no intention of dying, and Tifa is the leader of the group when Cloud is disabled by the lifestream. She is a strong woman who tried to go one on one vs Sephiroth. I don't know man, I have read so many opinions here that just seem exagerated and unfair. We can all reduce everything to the bare minimum and say Tifa is a giant tits girl, Aeris is the innocent naive girl who needs rescuing (although she went freaking alone to the Forgotten Capital knowning well of the threat Sephiroth posed) and Barret is the stereotypical black man. But whatever, people will always find something to complain.
 

Skilletor

Member
Huuh... I think you're looking waay to much into it!

Maybe I was just too naive when I played it, but:
1- Barret was one of my favorite characters;
2- I could never ever notice any rape insinuation;
3- I found that Cloud sequence just funny, not transphobic or homophobic in any way.

2. What did you think Hojo meant when he was trying to "help two species on the edge of extinction."

http://www.dorkly.com/post/75421/weird-things-you-forgot-were-in-final-fantasy-vii

He wanted Red XIII to rape Aerith.
 
Let's see how Cid comes across in 20XX. His motivations and the way he treats Shera will ruffle a few feathers no doubt unless it's repackaged.
 

Link1110

Member
Well, Barrett will probably depend on how they translate his dialogue. If they go the same route as they did the first time, you may have problems unless they have Mr. t voice him (dear square, DO THIS) but if they have him talk normal then he can bring diversity and be well liked for it.

Trivia,Barett isn't the only black male square character from that era. harid in romancing saga 3 came two years before
 
2. What did you think Hojo meant when he was trying to "help two species on the edge of extinction."

http://www.dorkly.com/post/75421/weird-things-you-forgot-were-in-final-fantasy-vii

He wanted Red XIII to rape Aerith.

He killed Professor Gast, inprisoned and tested on Ifalna, shot and turned Vincent into a monster and created Sephiroth by infusing cells into Lucretia womb. Is that really a surprise? I think this is the beauty of FF VII. Its actually a pretty dark game with even Lovecraftian themes like Jenova but offsets it all with humor. But the humor is not condoning anything. I never learned anything bad from the game, only learned English and that games can be pretty damn great.
 

Skilletor

Member
WUT. o_o

lol is this true? I always thought he was white too.

...wtf. Lol :p

latest






He killed Professor Gast, inprisoned and tested on Ifalna, shot and turned Vincent into a monster and created Sephiroth by infusing cells into Lucretia womb. Is that really a surprise? I think this is the beauty of FF VII. Its actually a pretty dark game with even Lovecraftian themes like Jenova but offsets it all with humor. But the humor is not condoning anything. I never learned anything bad from the game, only learned English and that games can be pretty damn great.

I'm literally responding to a person who said they never saw any implications of rape in the game.
 

DOWN

Banned
The pic in the OP struck me as scantily clad white women, white men, and a black guy, but I may be interpreting wrong as someone who hasn't played FFVII
 

wtd2009

Member
Anyway, you get the idea. People complaining about Barret should look at the other angry 30s something character in the party which happens to be white. Even Cid can be considered worse since he abuses Shera around. Sure, Barret talks the way he does, but his character is actually pretty good. The struggle he had, to have his village burned, eventually having to kill his friend and adopt his daughter. Even by the end he admits blowing the reactor was a terrible thing and he made suffer a lot of innocent people. If they just tone down his characterization, he will be the best character in the remake.

Regarding the girls, basically Aeris was a martyr to protect the planet, although she had no intention of dying, and Tifa is the leader of the group when Cloud is disabled by the lifestream. She is a strong woman who tried to go one on one vs Sephiroth. I don't know man, I have read so many opinions here that just seem exagerated and unfair. We can all reduce everything to the bare minimum and say Tifa is a giant tits girl, Aeris is the innocent naive girl who needs rescuing (although she went freaking alone to the Forgotten Capital knowning well of the threat Sephiroth posed) and Barret is the stereotypical black man. But whatever, people will always find something to complain.

Pretty much this. There's going to be a lot of heartache to realize in the remake, I hope they can do it justice and create the character depth of the original.
 
I wasn't really sure about Rude. I checked his wiki and it says Nomura said he wanted him to look South American, but I got to check the facts on that.

Edit: Couldn't find any direct links of Nomura saying this so anyone could've just threw that in there.
 

SOLDIER

Member
turks.png


He's clearly darker skinned versus the other Turks.

If it turns out he's actually a different race, well that's fine too.
 

anaron

Member
ryz68qwanlmozgsyalzu.png


Final+Fantasy+VII+Screenshot+39+bronco.jpg


Final+Fantasy+VII+Screenshot+34+shera.jpg


cid-final-fantasy-7.jpg


Anyway, you get the idea. People complaining about Barret should look at the other angry 30s something character in the party which happens to be white. Even Cid can be considered worse since he abuses Shera around. Sure, Barret talks the way he does, but his character is actually pretty good. The struggle he had, to have his village burned, eventually having to kill his friend and adopt his daughter. Even by the end he admits blowing the reactor was a terrible thing and he made suffer a lot of innocent people. If they just tone down his characterization, he will be the best character in the remake.

Regarding the girls, basically Aeris was a martyr to protect the planet, although she had no intention of dying, and Tifa is the leader of the group when Cloud is disabled by the lifestream. She is a strong woman who tried to go one on one vs Sephiroth. I don't know man, I have read so many opinions here that just seem exagerated and unfair. We can all reduce everything to the bare minimum and say Tifa is a giant tits girl, Aeris is the innocent naive girl who needs rescuing (although she went freaking alone to the Forgotten Capital knowning well of the threat Sephiroth posed) and Barret is the stereotypical black man. But whatever, people will always find something to complain.

LMAO

what game did you play?
 

Cynar

Member
No.

It might be celebrated as a return to form, but FF, in general, has largely been inclusive, which is why FF15 is so strange.

Plus there are about 2 dozen Sidney-esque bombshells in FF7 that are going to have to be tiptoed around. The Honeybee minigame is going to be.....interesting.
Doesn't that tell you perhaps they had a specific story to tell? I hated it as first but when I learned about the Norse mythology ties and the whole brotherhood story I was sold. Casts don't always have to be diverse.
 
I was turned off by FFXVs demo and the all-male all-white emo nu-metal thing makes me want to vomit everywhere (saying this as a white guy who likes metal if it matters).

FFVII is my favorite game of all time and featured strong women and a diverse cast for its time - especially considering some of the missteps of its contemporaries and games today.

No matter how big Tifa's boobs were... she wasn't in booty shorts with a thong hanging out and her bra halfway out to boot... all while she is supposed to be a mechanic ffs

??? What game did YOU play?

Tifa leads the group when Cloud goes vegetable.
She confronts Sephiroth in Nibehleim and gets stabbed. This is a huge part of the game.

NJnP2mq.jpg


Chill. Sheesh.

yep
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I found Cid's abusiveness troubling in 1997.

But back then I thought a game could feature problematic characters without it being an endorsement of their actions.

Cid is not a role model! lol


I was turned off by FFXVs demo and the all-male all-white emo nu-metal thing makes me want to vomit everywhere (saying this as a white guy who likes metal if it matters).

I see all-Asians.
 
I haven't been following Final Fantasy XV that much since FFXIII was so terrible. But, one of the things that bothered me in that game (FFXIII) was that all the characters were humans (and terrible, except for maybe Sazh at times). I liked the strangeness of the characters in FFVI, FFVII, and FFX. Ironically as well, I hated the cast of characters in FFVIII. If FFXV does only have those four male leads, that just seems like a bummer, and the excuse that they did so to fit the "story they wanted to tell" is usually a defensive afterthought to excuse a lack of desire to have diversity. FFVII had some dumb characters and failed spectacularly at times, but an attempt was made.
 

anaron

Member
??? What game did YOU play?

Tifa leads the group when Cloud goes vegetable.
She confronts Sephiroth in Nibehleim and gets stabbed. This is a huge part of the game.

NJnP2mq.jpg


Chill. Sheesh.

Tifa doesn't lead shit. She's the controllable character for like five minutes and then goes bedside waiter (because only Cloud matters) while Cid takes over.

And yes, she "confronted" Sephiroth just like Zack and her father before her: by doing basically nothing and getting immediately cut down. lol
 

Wazzy

Banned
This is flagrant hyperbole.
Seriously.

What a way to spin a character.

I was turned off by FFXVs demo and the all-male all-white emo nu-metal thing makes me want to vomit everywhere (saying this as a white guy who likes metal if it matters).

FFVII is my favorite game of all time and featured strong women and a diverse cast for its time - especially considering some of the missteps of its contemporaries and games today.

No matter how big Tifa's boobs were... she wasn't in booty shorts with a thong hanging out and her bra halfway out to boot... all while she is supposed to be a mechanic ffs
Yeah it's not like Tifa is in a short leather mini skirt that gives underwear shots and a tight crop top with giant breasts that jiggle constantly in any fmv she is featured in all while she's supposed to be a martial arts fighter.
 

SkyOdin

Member
I think the question of whether or not the remake is praised for diversity will be baised on whether or not it tries to improve on what was in the original game. Final Fantasy 7 is a 20-year old game that everyone is already at least loosely familiar with. The remake will thus have to show improved diversity over the original in order to really be deserving of praise.
 

PK Gaming

Member
This is flagrant hyperbole.

It isn't, though. She's the one to step up and lead the group when Cloud goes missing.

Barret literally tries to strong arm himself into being the leader but then acquiesces after realizing he straight up isn't the leading type. She is unambiguously the leader of the group for that portion of that game.

Tifa doesn't lead shit. She's the controllable character for like five minutes and then goes bedside waiter (because only Cloud matters) while Cid takes over.

It's not five minutes. You can literally do any of the major sidequests with Tifa as the leader, including the entirety of Wutai (which happened to me)
 

duckroll

Member
What I remember most of Tifa when I first finished FFVII, is that in the ending FMV, she used her boobs to lift herself up onto the cliff. Lol.
 

Ferr986

Member
It sucks that Tifa turned into a joke character for his huge tits and her treatment in the FMV scenes when she's a legit good character. I hope they can make her right in the remake.

About Barret, as I said the spanish translation didn't had that kind of dialogue for him so I found him good. Cid was way more complicated for today standards...
 

anaron

Member
It isn't, though. She's the one to step up and lead the group when Cloud goes missing.

Barret literally tries to strong arm himself into being the leader but then acquiesces after realizing he straight up isn't the leading type. She is unambiguously the leader of the group for that portion of that game.




It's not five minutes. You can literally do any of the major sidequests with Tifa as the leader, including the entirety of Wutai (which happened to me)

optional sidequests that can be done at almost any time and involve developing other characters reflects on her...how?

y'all can like Tifa but stop rewriting the game's history to better serve your waifu.
 

Wazzy

Banned
What I remember most of Tifa when I first finished FFVII, is that in the ending FMV, she used her boobs to lift herself up onto the cliff. Lol.

What's even more hilarious is her being down there is to save Cloud yet she immediately falls and Cloud has to save her. Then boob landing happens lol

It isn't, though. She's the one to step up and lead the group when Cloud goes missing.

Barret literally tries to strong arm himself into being the leader but then acquiesces after realizing he straight up isn't the leading type. She is unambiguously the leader of the group for that portion of that game.



It's not five minutes. You can literally do any of the major sidequests with Tifa as the leader, including the entirety of Wutai (which happened to me)

None of this is true. The moment you're in control of her she's doubting herself and basically saying it should be Cloud handling this. She relies heavily on him and is only thinking about him, not about leading the group.

Saying you can do sidequests is not a legit point as that is optional. They go in search of Cloud and once they find him she abandons the group and let's Cid lead.
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
None of this is true. The moment you're in control of her she's doubting herself and basically saying it should be Cloud handling this. She relies heavily on him and is only thinking about him, not about leading the group.

Saying you can do sidequests is not a legit point as that is optional. They go in search of Cloud and once they find him she abandons the group and let's Cid lead.

To be fair, everyone is like this. Even Barret ends up the same.
 

duckroll

Member
To be fair, everyone is like this. Even Barret ends up the same.

Yeah and to be fair, it's like most RPGs with a leader protagonist. Once everyone accepts the main guy as the leader, when he's not around or whatever, everyone is like "WHAT WOULD HE DO" or "IF ONLY HE WERE HERE" etc.
 

Wazzy

Banned
To be fair, everyone is like this. Even Barret ends up the same.

Sure but that's why I'm calling out this weird spin of her character in that time. She doesn't rush to be the leader. She's doubting herself the whole time and Barret has to snap her out of it. Then the moment they find Cloud she decides to stay with him, not takeover the leadership role because she obviously isn't able to. Her priorities are all about Cloud and that's not exactly a point for the character.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Rude's not black.

It's a Japanese game from the 90s. If they made him black, they'd make him BLACK. He'd be the same shade as Barret.

He's either a white dude or a Japanese dude.

...wtf. Lol :p

latest

I look at that and see this

0b7998ca9861aab960137107625b2489dea4fb91.jpg
 

PK Gaming

Member
optional sidequests that can be done at almost any time and involve developing other characters reflects on her...how?

y'all can like Tifa but stop rewriting the game's history to better serve your waifu.

Woah, easy I don't even like Tifa that much

I was trying to throw her a bone, but it's been so long since I've played FFVII that I can't really refute any of the the stuff you're throwing at me.

I'll...i'll get my things.

EDIT: Though, I remember her being fairly assertive during that Wutai quest line. So maybe it does reflect positively on her...?
 

anaron

Member
Woah, easy I don't even like Tifa that much

I was trying to throw her a bone, but it's been so long since I've played FFVII that I can't really refute any of the the stuff you're throwing at me

I'll...i'll get my things

As much as it seems otherwise, I actually do like Tifa! lol

I just...wouldn't use her as an example of a great character or "strong female character" :p
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Tifa isn't some Strong Independent Female Protagonist™ but she's also not that heavy with the fan service either. Her boobs are focussed on during some CGI movies but other than that she seems rather normal.
 
Let's see how Cid comes across in 20XX. His motivations and the way he treats Shera will ruffle a few feathers no doubt unless it's repackaged.
Yeah, Cid and Shera's dynamic is going to require some tweaking, because it pretty rough.

I hope they also get rid of Tifa's slap-fight, because that was way out of character. Tifa is made out of Falcon punches and shoryukens, and wouldn't bother with a pandering cat fight. They should do it like Raiders of the Lost Ark's sword-fight where they set the scene up, but then subvert expectations by actually doing the logical and character-fitting thing.

They have plenty to update, so I hope they seize the opportunity.
 

Ferr986

Member
Sure but that's why I'm calling out this weird spin of her character in that time. She doesn't rush to be the leader. She's doubting herself the whole time and Barret has to snap her out of it. Then the moment they find Cloud she decides to stay with him, not takeover the leadership role because she obviously isn't able to. Her priorities are all about Cloud and that's not exactly a point for the character.

Why not? It makes sense, considering the story of both characters, and it's not like she has nothing more on her character wise than trying to help Cloud.

Yeah, Tifa is a trigger for Cloud's development, so is a lot of secondary characters in games that are still good characters on their own.
 

anaron

Member
the slap fight is so ridiculous and fun though. it's those bits that edge out 7 being such a funny and weird game.

the only thing I'd tweak is to have Tifa just straight up be punching her. lol
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
the slap fight is so ridiculous and fun though. it's those bits that edge out 7 being such a funny and weird game.

the only thing I'd tweak is have Tifa just straight up be punching her. lol

This makes me realize they're probably going to turn that into a Matrix kung fu battle with QTEs :p
 

Kuraudo

Banned
The main problem with the game's treatment of Tifa is that it gives no reason for her to actually like Cloud beyond her roping him into promising to adhere to some archaic gender trope she had internalised. Then she becomes this woman-as-saviour figure who manages to literally pull him out of psychic turmoil.

So yeah, work on that Remake team.
 

anaron

Member
The main problem with the game's treatment of Tifa is that it gives no reason for her to actually like Cloud beyond her roping him into promising to adhere to some archaic gender trope she had internalised. Then she becomes this woman-as-saviour figure who manages to literally pull him out of psychic turmoil.

So yeah, work on that Remake team.

Agreed!
 
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