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Arion · Dec 25, 2016

Recently I've made a habit of playing games with objective makers and "detective visions" turned off. So far I've played through:

Hitman

Rise of Tomb Raider

Dishonored 2

with any form of objective markers and "detective vision" turned off. With the slight exception for Dishonored 2 where the "detective vision" needs to be unlocked in game and requires resources to use.

This is absolutely something everyone should try.

Without objective markers I've found myself much more immersed in the game worlds as I'm no longer tunnel visioned on a marker floating on the screen. I'm paying much more attention to what my objective actually is and how I should go about doing it. This does a great job of putting you in the mind frame of the player character. The levels end up feeling much more intimate and memorable because you consider every path and doorway to be a possibility.

Dishonored 2 is absolutely designed to be played without the objective markers as the game is filled with with in-world messages and directions which you can use to navigate the world. Important land marks and rooms are very clearly displayed.

Hitman is also great with Opportunities turned off as it forces you to figure out what those opportunities are on your own. Every level you start of walking around getting the lay of the land, eavesdropping on conversations and looking out for outstanding characters. Once you've discovered all the puzzle pieces you put them together and make the hit. It ends up being very satisfying, similar to point and click adventure games but with more stealth and neck messages.

Disabling "Detective vision" can be a little bit more tricky as modern games are usually realistic. This means the levels are filled with assets and details that are ultimately window dressing. The gameplay relevant items may be blended in with all the other stuff and be difficult to spot. You don't usually see items floating and rotating a foot above ground any more. But after a little while your eyes will start to pick up all the relevant items from the background noise and you don't have to regularly turn on a colour filter that destroys the art style of the game.

Of course this isn't possible with every game but I urge everyone to try it out on every game they play.

Also recommend me some games where I can play with the objective markers turned off. (no souls games since I've played all of them)

ViewtifulJC · Dec 25, 2016

"Have you played a video game before? Yes/No" right at the start of the game, just to help everybody out.

If you're on this website, you dont need it and the game is better for it

Already Torn · Dec 25, 2016

The Last of Us on harder difficulties gets rid of Joel's sonic shock superpowers.

benny_a · Dec 25, 2016

Titanoboa said:
The Last of Us on harder difficulties gets rid of Joel's sonic shock superpowers.

You don't need a higher difficulty, it's a separate option.

Already Torn · Dec 25, 2016

benny_a said:
You don't need a higher difficulty, it's a separate option.

Even better!

Crimsonclaw111 · Dec 25, 2016

You should try the Metro games on hardcore or whatever mode it is where you don't have a HUD, Wew lad.

TheMoon · Dec 25, 2016

Crimsonclaw111 said:
You should try the Metro games on hardcore or whatever mode it is where you don't have a HUD, Wew lad.

Ranger Mode

spekkeh · Dec 25, 2016

For me that feels like I'm deliberately wasting what little leisure time I have trying to grapple with a game that was not designed in this way.
It's cool if you can though.

gelf · Dec 25, 2016

I find it hard to play without objective markers unfortunately because most games are designed with them in mind and ofter little else in direction. So it's just aimlessly finding a needle in a haystack.

Games designed without markers in the first place tend to have the best feel of exploration.(e.g Souls)

Bjoern the Smexy · Dec 25, 2016

I played through Last of Us on Survivor difficulty which turns off the ability to use echolocation.

It was frustrating but fun. The frustration was the actual difficulty. You can turn off echolocation on any difficulty at any time in the options menu, you just can't use it at all on Survivor and Grounded difficulty.

Everyone should play it like that.

Fahzgoolin · Dec 25, 2016

Absolutely agree OP. I'm glad others are doing this!

I've even started disabling crosshairs and it makes shooting more immersive and satisfying.

PrankT · Dec 25, 2016

I don't have time for that. If the game has it, I'm using it.

Spring-Loaded · Dec 25, 2016

I'd like guides for games that describe exactly where this type of thing breaks.

I had opportunities turned off for Hitman, and there was one (battering ram accident) where I had to go to a specific position in order to start a training sequence, and the NPCs couldn't point to where I needed to go. A minor issue, but it

Also, not Dishonored 2, but in Dishonored's first real mission, there was a character you had to knockout and leave in a safe place, but there was only one spot the game would recognize as safe, and if you had objective markers off, there was no real way to know. unless that particular dumpster was mentioned earlier in the briefing.

More important than these are in-game toggles for minimaps. Objective markers commonly can be turned on/off, and detective visions can just be avoided, but minimaps seem to more often be locked in place. And in the case of Hitman, it's tied to the "trespassing" alert. Games need more options

From what I've heard though, Dishonored 2 is pretty good about being playable without objective markers, but again, I'm curious at what point that isn't true.

Garrett Hawke · Dec 25, 2016

I would like to do this but I just feel like so many games are completely not designed around it that it becomes impossible.

The Boat · Dec 25, 2016

Yep, turning off objective markers and on screen mini maps with markers makes a huge difference.

King Tubby · Dec 25, 2016

I really like the LA Noire style of letting you know about nearby clues with audio cues. Detective vision is almost always both too useful and too destructive to the visual design of the game.

AlexBasch · Dec 25, 2016

It's the proper way to play the games, tbh. Hand holding bullshit like TLOU sonar or whatever kinda kills the experience of the game.

Metro games hardcore mode is amazing. Played it like this only first go, and I'm glad they allow you to do it from the start instead of plowing through the game in easy as fuck difficulty.

RecRoulette · Dec 25, 2016

Reminds me of the folks who pick the highest difficulty when they get a new game. More power to you, I personally can't do it.

paragonpro · Dec 25, 2016

I like them and prefer to use them, if you dont, more power to you.

Fisty · Dec 25, 2016

TLOU, Metro series, and Bioshock Infinite are much better with their handicap visions and markers turned off. Ranger mode in particular is revelatory, goes from good stealth/shooter to amazing survival game

wvnative · Dec 25, 2016

With games being as big as they are now I think turning that crap off would only frustrate. Running around for god knows how long till you find out what your supposed to do, is tedious as crap. That isn't fun. I prefer difficulty to be reflected in combat or focused puzzles.

JC Lately · Dec 25, 2016

Disagree. I love those markers if for no other reason than it lets me know what direction not to go in if I want to explore the area before triggering the next story beat.

Bishop89 · Dec 25, 2016

Yeh no thanks. There's no benefit at all for me doing this. Things listed in the OP such as "immersion" are the last things I look for in my games and don't care for whatsoever.

I mean sure, it will unclutter the screen, but it would get rid of vital information.

Imagine playing Witcher 3 with no HUD. Map etc.. Good lord, can't think of how frustrated it would be navigating that world.

Y2Kev · Dec 25, 2016

It's hard to get over in truly open world games because there's no natural or organic "flow" to the levels but in wide linear and linear hub type games? Absolutely.

For example, people told me TURN OFF THE MAP MARKERS in asscrud 1 and play it that way. I found it beyond frustrating. There was so little to go on in the game world itself that it was basically like stumbling into the right area. In Hitman? You actually listen and WATCH THE GAME WORLD instead of watching the minimap. It's exclusively more fun.

This is not a hardc0re like "autoaim is for losers" thing. It enhances the experience and actually makes the game a game.

I was playing Hitman and following map markers and I was like...this is not being a hitman. I am not a hitman. I don't even know where I'm going. I'm just following what the game is telling me. Why don't I just put the controller down and watch it on youtube?

Remove map marker crap and wow. It's like I'm actually playing a game.

edit: This is not for immersion. People who complain about "immersion breaking" stuff are generally annoying to me and would have been constantly complaining 20 years ago when the last real games came out like Tomb Raider YEAHHH RAWR. It's about games making you think again.

GavinUK86 · Dec 25, 2016

I don't mind objective markers but I hate detective vision, especially in games where it makes no sense. It does make sense in the Batman games but, for example, why does it exist in Mafia 3?

Bl@de · Dec 25, 2016

spekkeh said:
For me that feels like I'm deliberately wasting what little leisure time I have trying to grapple with a game that was not designed in this way.
It's cool if you can though.

That's my biggest problem with this approach. Games are designed around quest markers and other visual effects like detective visions. Morrowind had extensive descriptions of quest locations and actual task. New games simply say "Kill X" without an location (when you read it up in the quest log). This way I need to write down every conversation or wander around aimlessly. Things I simply don't want. But ... If a game is designed with it in mind, exploration is a fantastic thing and I love it.

kadotsu · Dec 25, 2016

The problem is that some games aren't good enough level decoration-wise to give me enough points of interest to navigate. Pair that with map menus that get a long time to get to and you got yourself a need for markers. Detective vision I agree on, though. I feel like ACII had the right balance.

RobotMoses · Dec 25, 2016

Crimsonclaw111 said:
You should try the Metro games on hardcore or whatever mode it is where you don't have a HUD, Wew lad.

Yeah, my brother did this not too long ago. Said it was the most immersed he's been in a video game in a long time.

loganclaws · Dec 25, 2016

My biggest pet peeve. The problem is that developers nowadays rely on these crutches so much that games are designed with them in mind, so disabling them wouldn't work in many games. Example is you need to find an item and you're not given any info or clues on where it could be, just an objective marker. Or as a previous poster mentioned here, you need to hide a body in one specific dumpster which is recognized as the proper hiding spot to progress.

VDenter · Dec 25, 2016

Turning off everything in MGSV including Reflex Mode turns that game into something else entirely once you experience the tension its hard to go back. After a while it almost feels like that is the way it was meant to be played.

The Last of Us gave me a similar feeling on survivor difficulty.

SprachBrooks · Dec 25, 2016

No thanks.

Fisty · Dec 25, 2016

Bishop89 said:
Yeh no thanks. There's no benefit at all for me doing this. Things listed in the OP such as "immersion" are the last things I look for in my games and don't care for whatsoever.

I mean sure, it will unclutter the screen, but it would get rid of vital information.

Imagine playing Witcher 3 with no HUD. Map etc.. Good lord, can't think of how frustrated it would be navigating that world.

I don't think anyone is arguing against them in huge open worlds, yes that would be a challenge to navigate and lead to frustration for a lot of folks. In something like Dishonored or TLOU though? They are small enough to where you aren't bumbling all across a huge map trying to find some random NPC, and the levels are contained enough to allow you to explore at your own pace and not get too far away from your objective. Personally though, I would be completely fine with something like a Skyrim mode with a really extensive map and a good compass, no map markers etc. I love those immersion options and makes me feel a bit more part of the world when my character doesn't see huge glowing arrows pointing to ancient lost artifacts like some kind of omni-presence

Alfredo · Dec 25, 2016

I actually dislike the "instinct/detective" vision thing, not just for its negative visual impact, but the gameplay impact of having to constantly hit the "instinct" button over and over just to find out what objects I can interact with in the environment.

I actually miss the days of designers making interactable objects stand out by just making them shiny, by giving the item an animated glossy look, or even that Resident Evil thing where there's just a little animated shimmer on top of stuff. While it might look unnatural, it doesn't disrupt the entire scene with a darkened image and a bunch of weird highlights on EVERYTHING.

Spring-Loaded · Dec 25, 2016

Y2Kev said:
edit: This is not for immersion. People who complain about "immersion breaking" stuff are generally annoying to me and would have been constantly complaining 20 years ago when the last real games came out like Tomb Raider YEAHHH RAWR. It's about games making you think again.

It's time to accept that you are one of those people. It may be an immersion in game mechanics and systems as opposed to atmosphere and sense of place, but it's immersion nonetheless, and you are as insufferably nerdy as the people you detest.

loganclaws · Dec 25, 2016

Fisty said:
I don't think anyone is arguing against them in huge open worlds, yes that would be a challenge to navigate and lead to frustration for a lot of folks. In something like Dishonored or TLOU though? They are small enough to where you aren't bumbling all across a huge map trying to find some random NPC, and the levels are contained enough to allow you to explore at your own pace and not get too far away from your objective. Personally though, I would be completely fine with something like a Skyrim mode with a really extensive map and a good compass, no map markers etc. I love those immersion options and makes me feel a bit more part of the world when my character doesn't see huge glowing arrows pointing to ancient lost artifacts like some kind of omni-presence

Skyrim already has a mode called better quest objectives which aims to provide all the necessary details of the quest in the journal so that you can turn off all the HUD items and immerse yourself in the game world.

FireBeaver · Dec 25, 2016

Turning off the minimap in Witcher 3 makes the game much harder, but insanely more immersive.

Fury451 · Dec 25, 2016

I ignore these things when I can, but some environments have become so cluttered/graphics so good that it's hard to see some things without assistance. Rise of the Tomb Raider especially needed this, as well as some of the parts of the Arkham games.

loganclaws · Dec 25, 2016

FireBeaver said:
Turning off the minimap in Witcher 3 makes the game much harder, but insanely more immersive.

Witcher 3 has a mod called Friendly HUD which re-works the HUD, disabling everything and giving you the info you need when you need it only.

Aurongel · Dec 25, 2016

FireBeaver said:
Turning off the minimap in Witcher 3 makes the game much harder, but insanely more immersive.

This is only worth it if you have mods that add back in floating markers for waypoints. Without them, you have to pull up the map every 30 seconds.

I've played over a hundred hours of the Witcher without a hud.

Fisty · Dec 25, 2016

loganclaws said:
Skyrim already has a mode called better quest objectives which aims to provide all the necessary details of the quest in the journal so that you can turn off all the HUD items and immerse yourself in the game world.

And that's in the shipped game?

The Janitor · Dec 25, 2016

Some games are impossible without markers (like open world games) because you'll have no idea where to go.
That's why a toggle function is the best, just toggle the marker on to see your objective, then toggle it off when you don't need it.

I made such toggles for Assassins Creed Unity and Syndicate:

http://www.moddb.com/games/assassins-creed-v-unity/downloads/toggle-objective-marker-onoff
http://www.moddb.com/games/assassins-creed-syndicate/downloads/toggle-hud-and-last-known-position

Bishop89 · Dec 25, 2016

For what it's worth I still think dead space has the best HUD implementation.

Health is part of the characters model.

And if you need a waypoint you can just manually activate it.

jakonovski · Dec 25, 2016

I'm doing this right now on Deus Ex MD, totally works. Going to try it in Dishonored 2 as well.

I wouldn't like it on Hitman though. That game is all about flawless execution and collecting for me, and it's achieved through repetition. Would take wayyyy too much time if I had to figure it all out too.

John Kowalski · Dec 25, 2016

ViewtifulJC said:
If you're on this website, you dont need it and the game is better for it

how inclusive

PeterGAF · Dec 25, 2016

For the new Hitman it's almost required. Having any of the hints on pretty much just tells you how to beat each mission. The game leads you by the nose. Turn them off however and you have a big open sandbox where you put your wits to the test.

WhiskerFrisker · Dec 25, 2016

The Janitor said:
Some games are impossible without markers (like open world games) because you'll have no idea where to go.
That's why a toggle function is the best, just toggle the marker on to see your objective, then toggle it off when you don't need it.

I made such toggles for Assassins Creed Unity and Syndicate:

http://www.moddb.com/games/assassins-creed-v-unity/downloads/toggle-objective-marker-onoff
http://www.moddb.com/games/assassins-creed-syndicate/downloads/toggle-hud-and-last-known-position

I played the entirety of Assassin's Creed Syndicate without a HUD. It was an absolute blast for me because I really took in the environment. I payed more attention to fights so I could pick up cues to counter enemies. The game seriously does not really need a HUD at all.

I'm also playing Deus Ex: Mankind Divided that way, but I haven't finished the game. I should get back to it.

Ithil · Dec 25, 2016

No joke, I quit on Resident Evil 6 after about 25 minutes because of the objective marker that I couldn't turn off. It's a linear corridor based game, I don't need a damn arrow pointing me at the door.

I hear the PC version could have it turned off, but my PS3 version defeated me in record time with that obnoxious little arrow. The first thing I do in games now is turn off objective markers, detective modes, listen modes, whatever, the hand holding is just too much.

Pankratous · Dec 25, 2016

This is alright in open level design games like Bioshock, or linear games in general, but fuck that in open world.

jimboton · Dec 25, 2016

I mostly just avoid games that have those 'features'. With few exceptions like The Last of Us or Dishonored they have just been designed that way in a very deep level, even if you disable all the handholding that you can, they tend to be incredibly obvious about progression and have dumbed down mechanics and gameplay.

inky · Dec 25, 2016

When the game isn't designed to guide you naturally without them (i.e no descriptions or conversations that accurately point you to your goal) then it just becomes an exercise in frustration, hoping you stumble around your objective by just canvasing the map. That's no fun either imo.

Funny thing I read the other day, in the new Tomb Raider doing some of the optional content (i.e. the raiding Tombs part, lol) actually rewards you with more permanent detective vision, so things like crafting materials immediately shine even with detective vision off. That's on top of the options already in the skill tree to enhance that aspect.

We'll be soon at a point where the whole screen will shine bright orange as soon as you activate it, considering all the shit around the world there is to collect already. The AssCreed map effect but applied to detective vision. What a terrible world of vg design we live in.

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