Strangelove77
Member
Detective mode in RoTR is so awful and intrusive. Pressing that fucking thing every other minute is not fun. It's just annoying.
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"Objective makers - off" | "Detective Vision - off"
- Thread starter Arion
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Tye The Czar
Member
Good idea. I try to do this too.
Only when I'm lost for an uncomfortable amount of time do I turn it off to find the location.
I also try to turn off the any button or environment props unless it becomes nearly impossible to find things. Since some games can have objects blend in with the environment, like DOOM 2016, I can't help but have it on.
Only when I'm lost for an uncomfortable amount of time do I turn it off to find the location.
I also try to turn off the any button or environment props unless it becomes nearly impossible to find things. Since some games can have objects blend in with the environment, like DOOM 2016, I can't help but have it on.
Oublieux
Member
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Maintaining a job, financial responsibilities, and a social life all at once; I tend to use these mechanics as "time savers." Granted, I'm sure there are people in the same position as I am that still disable these functions because it is indeed more immersive, but I think I've slowly started leaning towards the camp of using whatever "crutches" they give me for the sake of completing the game since my interests tend to go back and forth.
If a game is designed with these features in mind it often lacks the visual and verbal signposting that lets you distinguish important things without these features and thus turning these features off just makes games a chore to play. For this to work, games must be designed so that they can be played without these features. Simply giving the ability to turn them off doesn't make bad design go away.
Following the Little Dotted Line | Game Maker's Toolkit
See also this thread: Who agrees that Morrowind was the best in game navigation ever?
Following the Little Dotted Line | Game Maker's Toolkit
See also this thread: Who agrees that Morrowind was the best in game navigation ever?
Roufianos
Member
Yea definitely the worst implementation of it I've seen.
Mafia III's wasn't as bad but it was just unnecessary and stupid, Lara you can kind of justify it by her survival instincts, Clayton was just your average guy.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
If it's an RPG or adventure game then I don't mind having them on. Then it's a signal to me that "if you go here, the plot moves on", so I like to explore and do everything I want to while I can, and when I get bored I move on.
Those are the only games I play that really use them.
Those are the only games I play that really use them.
It's not for everyone, though. While the sense of discovery in some games might be worth it, other people play with limited time and require to make at least some form of progress to enjoy the hobby to a certain degree. Now, I'm not saying it's impossible (Super Metroid does this beatifully, being such a short game), but it's certainly hard in the current landscape.
Also, I'm in the second camp of preferring markers and walkthroughs. Then again, I mostly play jRPG's where my biggest interest is the story and character interactions, and everything else is secondary, as long as the battle system is enjoyable.
Also, I'm in the second camp of preferring markers and walkthroughs. Then again, I mostly play jRPG's where my biggest interest is the story and character interactions, and everything else is secondary, as long as the battle system is enjoyable.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
I always turn off that detective vision/eagle vision/etc. bullshit in every game. Absolutely hate it and it's a trend in gaming that needs to die NOW!!!
The only time any of that stuff is acceptable to me is if you're playing a Splinter Cell or that type of game where you actually have the goggles that give you the ability. That makes sense and fits the premise of the game. Some stupid extra ability does not.
As for other options, I always keep the mini-map on. Need a mini-map. I don't have the time or the patience to keep pausing the game ala MGSV to keep checking the map so I know im going in the right direction and won't be stuck by a mountain or some crap to where I have to go all the way around which in turn, bores me and wastes more of my time.
Auto aim/assist is always off for me. Cover prompts and outlines like in The Division when going cover to cover is also always off for me. I do keep button prompts on for when climbing and stealth kills because I don't want to have to figure out if im in the right spot or if im close enough. If the button prompt comes up, I know that im good.
I always leave objectives and waypoints on though. All the tutorial stuff and pop up hints and crap like that, I turn off.
Basically, I leave the main stuff on and turn off all the garbage I don't like or don't want.
EDIT: One thing for sure is that I wish every game simply had an on/off option for everything so that way, everyone can play their own way and everyone has the ability and option in regards to using certain abilities or simply turning them off.
ROTTR wise, I only used survival instincts for one side mission involving that stupid bird. Couldn't locate him unless you used that crap. Or at least, I couldn't locate the damn bird without instincts. Otherwise, it was off the entire game.
EDIT 2: Thinking about all of this reminded me of the main negative in The Witcher III which was having to use Geralt's Witcher senses in pretty much every quest to solve it. Very annoying. I get it and it makes sense somewhat but to implement it into nearly every quest was my biggest negative.
Can't wait to see if after Cyberpunk 2077, CDPR develops Witcher 4 with Ciri as the lead/main character. Not only would all the time travel stuff be fucking awesome but she has no Witcher senses at all!!!
The only time any of that stuff is acceptable to me is if you're playing a Splinter Cell or that type of game where you actually have the goggles that give you the ability. That makes sense and fits the premise of the game. Some stupid extra ability does not.
As for other options, I always keep the mini-map on. Need a mini-map. I don't have the time or the patience to keep pausing the game ala MGSV to keep checking the map so I know im going in the right direction and won't be stuck by a mountain or some crap to where I have to go all the way around which in turn, bores me and wastes more of my time.
Auto aim/assist is always off for me. Cover prompts and outlines like in The Division when going cover to cover is also always off for me. I do keep button prompts on for when climbing and stealth kills because I don't want to have to figure out if im in the right spot or if im close enough. If the button prompt comes up, I know that im good.
I always leave objectives and waypoints on though. All the tutorial stuff and pop up hints and crap like that, I turn off.
Basically, I leave the main stuff on and turn off all the garbage I don't like or don't want.
EDIT: One thing for sure is that I wish every game simply had an on/off option for everything so that way, everyone can play their own way and everyone has the ability and option in regards to using certain abilities or simply turning them off.
ROTTR wise, I only used survival instincts for one side mission involving that stupid bird. Couldn't locate him unless you used that crap. Or at least, I couldn't locate the damn bird without instincts. Otherwise, it was off the entire game.
EDIT 2: Thinking about all of this reminded me of the main negative in The Witcher III which was having to use Geralt's Witcher senses in pretty much every quest to solve it. Very annoying. I get it and it makes sense somewhat but to implement it into nearly every quest was my biggest negative.
Can't wait to see if after Cyberpunk 2077, CDPR develops Witcher 4 with Ciri as the lead/main character. Not only would all the time travel stuff be fucking awesome but she has no Witcher senses at all!!!
justjustin
Member
Yeah, I try but it usually doesn't work. I'll turn off objective markers and stuff to make the game more interesting but then I literally have no idea where to go, or I'm opening up the map screen 800 times. As others have mentioned, it depends how the game is designed. At the end of the day, even though it's optional, a game is designed around some type of bias; and it's usually in favor of objective markers and xray vision these days.
wastedyears
Member
To me a far worse offender is the way seemingly everyone watches videos or uses guides from the first moment of trouble, or even before having ever played the game. What's the best character build? What's the best way to beat this boss? What's the easiest way to get the best weapon and armor? What's the easiest way to do xyz. These things hurt games far more than they help.
Doctor Decimate
Member
I wish there was more of a middle ground in Hitman between turning the objective markers off and even just having it on minimal; minimal gets rid of the map markers but leaves the objective onscreen, and there have been more than a few times where I felt the game would benefit from the opposite. It's not always clear where I'm supposed to go in the first place for that objective with such huge levels, and sometimes the objective itself seems like too much information. I'm not sure how to fix this other than something like "give only a map marker that leads to the area with the objective rather than right to the objective, and only for certain ones" which seems like it'd be tricky to implement.
I feel similarly about challenges; I don't want them to tell me exactly what to do but sometimes the picture and the name isn't enough.
I like the "detective mode" and find it necessary in a stealth game with horrible load times where shit can go sideways immediately; older Hitman games were more about reloading your save, but that's super tedious in the new one so I see detective mode as an acceptable compromise.
I feel similarly about challenges; I don't want them to tell me exactly what to do but sometimes the picture and the name isn't enough.
I like the "detective mode" and find it necessary in a stealth game with horrible load times where shit can go sideways immediately; older Hitman games were more about reloading your save, but that's super tedious in the new one so I see detective mode as an acceptable compromise.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
The Last of Us is the first game I've ever played that is significantly improved both tonally and gameplay-wise by just shutting off that easy-mode Batman bullshit.
And that's all it is. So many games provide the flimsiest context for turning my vision into Batman's fucking cowl and I hate that shit
And that's all it is. So many games provide the flimsiest context for turning my vision into Batman's fucking cowl and I hate that shit
Once again: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Feli...e_Quest_Compass__its_dreadful_convenience.php
This is pretty much how most games were meant to be played before roughly the beginning of last gen. I remember "quest arrows" in older games being seen as extremely arcadey, now they're the norm.
The problem I have is with games that let you turn off each of the HUD elements but aren't actually built to be played without them. You can turn off all that crap in Far Cry 4 but the game is absolutely not designed for it. One reason for the increased dependence on the waypoint might be the size of modern games. Older games that didn't have them by default tended to be smaller (like Ocarina of Time). Games with zones of similar size today like Dishonored and Deus Ex give you the waypoint and minimap as an option but there's certainly enough in the game world to where you don't need them. Skyrim is actually pretty navigable if you mod out the waypoint marker and use the mod for more detailed quest objectives... because Bethesda already put road signs in the game. Another good example is the first Bioshock (maybe Bioshock 2 as well but I can't remember). I've never played it with all the quest markers and other assistance HUD devices turned on, and if you pay enough attention to the world everything is marked with signs and directions. The only thing you can't run off is the big "GOAL" sign on your map.
Immersion is one reason for people to turn that stuff off, but it's not the only reason. A lot of people just consider navigating the world itself or finding hidden things to be part of the challenge of playing the game. If you just follow an arrow or breadcrumb trail everywhere to fight things, it feels like there's less a reason for a game to be open-world in the first place.
And road signs and billboards aren't the only in-game clues developers use to make waypoints unnecessary. Well-planned character dialogue serves this purpose too, of which Dishonored 2 is a good example. Having detailed-enough objective descriptions is imperative. In Bioshock one thing I did to remind myself where I needed to go was re-play the audio recordings that gave me clues.
If games are going to let me individually turn off HUD elements though, I wish they'd let me independently turn the minimap and compass on/off. Too many games seem to have them fused together like Far Cry 4, Witcher 3, and Deus Ex. In Witcher 3 I think if I just had the regular map screen and a compass I could find my way around just fine without waypoints or the minimap. Honestly the minimap alone isn't that bad. As the article I liked above states, the minimap, radar, compass, and regular map screen by themselves just tell you about your surroundings, which is good. The problem with the waypoint is that it specifically tells you where to go.
This is pretty much how most games were meant to be played before roughly the beginning of last gen. I remember "quest arrows" in older games being seen as extremely arcadey, now they're the norm.
The problem I have is with games that let you turn off each of the HUD elements but aren't actually built to be played without them. You can turn off all that crap in Far Cry 4 but the game is absolutely not designed for it. One reason for the increased dependence on the waypoint might be the size of modern games. Older games that didn't have them by default tended to be smaller (like Ocarina of Time). Games with zones of similar size today like Dishonored and Deus Ex give you the waypoint and minimap as an option but there's certainly enough in the game world to where you don't need them. Skyrim is actually pretty navigable if you mod out the waypoint marker and use the mod for more detailed quest objectives... because Bethesda already put road signs in the game. Another good example is the first Bioshock (maybe Bioshock 2 as well but I can't remember). I've never played it with all the quest markers and other assistance HUD devices turned on, and if you pay enough attention to the world everything is marked with signs and directions. The only thing you can't run off is the big "GOAL" sign on your map.
Immersion is one reason for people to turn that stuff off, but it's not the only reason. A lot of people just consider navigating the world itself or finding hidden things to be part of the challenge of playing the game. If you just follow an arrow or breadcrumb trail everywhere to fight things, it feels like there's less a reason for a game to be open-world in the first place.
And road signs and billboards aren't the only in-game clues developers use to make waypoints unnecessary. Well-planned character dialogue serves this purpose too, of which Dishonored 2 is a good example. Having detailed-enough objective descriptions is imperative. In Bioshock one thing I did to remind myself where I needed to go was re-play the audio recordings that gave me clues.
If games are going to let me individually turn off HUD elements though, I wish they'd let me independently turn the minimap and compass on/off. Too many games seem to have them fused together like Far Cry 4, Witcher 3, and Deus Ex. In Witcher 3 I think if I just had the regular map screen and a compass I could find my way around just fine without waypoints or the minimap. Honestly the minimap alone isn't that bad. As the article I liked above states, the minimap, radar, compass, and regular map screen by themselves just tell you about your surroundings, which is good. The problem with the waypoint is that it specifically tells you where to go.
NightShift
Member
I hate detective modes just because of how visually ugly they all are.
GreenMonkey
Member
I played TLOU without the sonar vision, on hard. Had lots of fun with it.
Then again my idea of fun is Dark Souls and I hate easy games.
I have turned off survival instinct often in Tomb Raider, especially the glowing effect. It felt pretty great having everything off in Blood Ties in particular.
I actually didn't turn off anything in Dishonored 2 for the most part through, cause I was so engrossed into exploring the levels either way.
I actually didn't turn off anything in Dishonored 2 for the most part through, cause I was so engrossed into exploring the levels either way.
names2hard4you
Member
Basically yeah. When I was younger and had a ton of time in my hands, for sure. But nowadays with how busy life is, if the devs give me a hand to hold on to, I will gladly take the help.
I kept objective markers on in Dishonored (1), but for a reason that I think is still in the spirit of this thread:
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Nah. The games are designed around it so when you turn it off it becomes a pixel hunt game with no decent information to lead you to your goal unlike very old games that were designed around not having it.
Anyway the point of things like witcher senses and detective vision is to give you the skills / abilities your character has. Im not a tracker, im not good and seeing signs of dusturbed foliage, i cant smell like a witcher. So without systems like these im not really playing how the character is designed.
More than anything I don't have time to fumble around looking for this stuff these days.
One thing i did turn off in witcher 3 is satnav. That shit is the worst. Not only does it mean you spend your time looking at a line on a mini map rather than the game world but it often leeds you down bad paths. Just a waypoint and a map is enough thanks.
Anyway the point of things like witcher senses and detective vision is to give you the skills / abilities your character has. Im not a tracker, im not good and seeing signs of dusturbed foliage, i cant smell like a witcher. So without systems like these im not really playing how the character is designed.
More than anything I don't have time to fumble around looking for this stuff these days.
One thing i did turn off in witcher 3 is satnav. That shit is the worst. Not only does it mean you spend your time looking at a line on a mini map rather than the game world but it often leeds you down bad paths. Just a waypoint and a map is enough thanks.
Hentailover
Member
Depends on if objective markers were desgined to be a crutch for the player... or developers. You will not force me to play Skyrim without objective markers, even if you offer to pay me money. THat game is designed around that floating arrow.
Mac the KNife
Member
Agreed. Since it's not even a half-assed mechanic I'd rather have the interactable objects just glow brighter or something. Hate hitting that button constantly.
That certainly is a risk. I think there's a good middle-ground where objects could be more obviously interactable when viewed from afar.
Yeah I play games with no hud or markers whenever possible.I started it with Assassin's Creed 2 and I've kept it going since. One of the things that I found really cool about that game in no hud mode was that I started finding the collectible items that were hidden around the map very easily because I was actually paying attention to all of the world detail.
I've seen people play games like Witcher 3 where they spend so much time staring at the minimap and missing out on a beautiful open world. Super sad.
It's a slower way to play games, to be sure. But I'd rather have fewer really immersive experiences than just checking off a list of games by the end of the year.
I've seen people play games like Witcher 3 where they spend so much time staring at the minimap and missing out on a beautiful open world. Super sad.
It's a slower way to play games, to be sure. But I'd rather have fewer really immersive experiences than just checking off a list of games by the end of the year.
Yeah I'm playing through Dishonoured 2 now and although I'm having fun, the quest markers are irritating me. Every few mins I get a message on my screen saying "BONECHARM NEARBY, EQUIP HEART" and I pull out the heart and 20 new icons litter my screen Ubisoft style, runes, bonecharms, corrupt bonecharms etc complete with distance measured.
My problem with this is I don't think you get runes and bone charms normally via finishing levels/quests (I'm on mission 4 I think, kill the inventor in his mansion. Kirin?) so I feel like I need to play by these rules or my character will be underpowered (playing on hard) if I turn these off or don't use the heart. I feel the levels are just "too" big for me to find these items via exploring.
I may give it a try with Corvo after I complete it first time and see how I fare.
And yeah x-ray vision too needs to go away.
My problem with this is I don't think you get runes and bone charms normally via finishing levels/quests (I'm on mission 4 I think, kill the inventor in his mansion. Kirin?) so I feel like I need to play by these rules or my character will be underpowered (playing on hard) if I turn these off or don't use the heart. I feel the levels are just "too" big for me to find these items via exploring.
I may give it a try with Corvo after I complete it first time and see how I fare.
And yeah x-ray vision too needs to go away.
Psychoward
Banned
I'd do it but most games make it almost impossible to progress without them so
Far Cry primal hunter vision is god awful but the game is basically impossible to finish without it.
TLOU listen mode is basically the only one that worked off.
Mankind Divided also managed to turn off object highlights by default compared to HR and the game is much better.
Far Cry primal hunter vision is god awful but the game is basically impossible to finish without it.
TLOU listen mode is basically the only one that worked off.
Mankind Divided also managed to turn off object highlights by default compared to HR and the game is much better.
The physical difficulty of playing a game is more important than the immersion of a role? Not to me.
Case in point: Batman.
Batman's using that shit. He'd be stupid not to, he knows that, and his objective is to take care of the threat - not see how difficult he can make it for himself. If Batman's using it, I'm using it.
Case in point: Deus Ex.
'I never asked for these advantages, so I'm not going to use them. I'm a walking tank, I'm beyond human, but screw seeing through walls it's too easy.'
Power fantasies are just that. If you want masochism from them, you're playing the wrong kind of game. Those games do exist.
I find the break in logic of playing out of character far more egregious than having advantages over enemies that I'm intended to use - in a power fantasy. In a video game.
Batman's the definition of a CHEAT. Jenson's the definition of GIFTED. It's the point of each respective game.
We only take notice of these characters in the first place because of their advantages.
Case in point: Batman.
Batman's using that shit. He'd be stupid not to, he knows that, and his objective is to take care of the threat - not see how difficult he can make it for himself. If Batman's using it, I'm using it.
Case in point: Deus Ex.
'I never asked for these advantages, so I'm not going to use them. I'm a walking tank, I'm beyond human, but screw seeing through walls it's too easy.'
Power fantasies are just that. If you want masochism from them, you're playing the wrong kind of game. Those games do exist.
I find the break in logic of playing out of character far more egregious than having advantages over enemies that I'm intended to use - in a power fantasy. In a video game.
Batman's the definition of a CHEAT. Jenson's the definition of GIFTED. It's the point of each respective game.
We only take notice of these characters in the first place because of their advantages.
Yep, and fairly so it does take conditioning and patience to rewire gamer's coddled brains to actually observe and perceive their surroundings given years of waypoint help.
Not even really certain what is to be gained from having an open-world experience given the arguments tallied so far in this thread for maintaining waypoint markers actually.
The Op has a couple of good examples, like Hitman and Dishonored but yeah, most games that have these things are also designed around them, so if you turn them off, there just isn't enough direction to find stuff.
Rexatality
Member
Just wanna let you know that the ''bone charm/rune nearby'' stuff can be turned off (Its called Information Message)
As for the thread, yeah, I agree. I find it much more immersive with detective vision and objective markers turned off
nkarafo
Member
Problem is that modern games are designed around these. Meaning, if you turn them off you are probably skipping a lot of content that is nearly impossible to discover on your own.
Design your games to be perfectly playable without those things first. Then give me the option to disable them.
Design your games to be perfectly playable without those things first. Then give me the option to disable them.
Psychoward
Banned
What? Jensen is augmented yes but there's a difference between how they did it in HR and Mankind Divided.
In Human Revolution all object highlights are on all the time by default, in Mankind Divided you need to unlock a smart vision augment which has a limited power setting and then you need to upgrade it to highlight useful objects. There is a middle ground and Mankind Divided does it well, a lot of games don't. And this is also a game about an augmented super human, a lot of the games being talked about in the thread aren't. I'd like to be able to turn off a lot of useless bullshit in modern games but with the exception of a few games turning off objective markers and detective vision is going to either lead to not being able to even complete the game or having to bring up the map every 5 seconds.
Not really relevant to my point as I'm saying neither game's level of smart vision is a problem when you're supposed to be playing as ADAM JENSON.
Also thread title states 'Detective Mode' - meaning primarily Batman.
Now RE7 having item highlighting properties? I could see someone's point, because RE7 will NOT star some badass with vision abilities. Only grey area is the series' history of well, highlighted items. Meh.
TheMoon
Member
It was though, in many cases. That's why the option is there.
Psychoward
Banned
But I'm saying there's good and bad ways to do it. And the thread title states detective mode because it was the first big example of it, there have been plenty of needless copycats though and that's where my gripes are.
I didn't specify Batman at all. The term "Detective Vision" is widely used for any games that give you super vision to highlight objects and see through walls not just Batman.
I know that you are but I'm addressing people who want it removed entirely because it's 'easy mode'.
My point is - for example - try not playing as Batman if you don't like advantages.
You didn't need to. You specified 'vision abilities off' as an absolute.
I responded saying that if it suits the character, that doesn't make sense.
And come on, the term originates from Batman.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
Except the games themselves are heavily designed around these elements.
Hitman is especially frustrating without them. You would never be able to unlock any of the cool special kills without the objective markers.
Hitman is especially frustrating without them. You would never be able to unlock any of the cool special kills without the objective markers.
TheKastorian
Member
This is the way it should be played. Such a brilliant, tense experience.
MetaCircular
Member
Grid search is a tedious waste of time, but some people seem to love it. Like the people who think it's fun to bomb every wall and burn every bush in Zelda 1 - a game I think is pretty much unplayable today. Give me markers, or smaller well-designed levels that don't need them (new Shantae is pretty good).
spermatic cord
Member
I tried to do this in Dishonored 2. Was going ok until I got to level 4(mansion level). It might be just that level, but I was wandering aimlessly for an hour trying to figure out where to go, I broke down and re-enabled the objective marker.
I also hated detective vision in Watch Dogs 2. That ugly blue filter removed the beautiful graphics.
I also hated detective vision in Watch Dogs 2. That ugly blue filter removed the beautiful graphics.
Not true at all. I've only been doing the cool special kills all with opportunities mode turned off. The game has plenty of NPCs discussing the opportunities so if you eavesdrop you can figure out all of them.
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