Didn't Sony put out a press statement that said the studio was losing them money? I agree that laying everyone off is a little extreme, but if it ain't making money it doesn't have much reason to exist.
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Sony 1st Party studio closures are killing entire genres on the platforn
- Thread starter Caipirinha
- Start date
Didn't Sony put out a press statement that said the studio was losing them money? I agree that laying everyone off is a little extreme, but if it ain't making money it doesn't have much reason to exist.
Ninja Scooter
Member
These businesses aren't run like softball teams where everyone gets an at bat. It's not about fairness. Sony closed that studio because they no longer felt it would be worth the cost to own and operate them. It sucks really bad for the people that worked there, but it's the way the business world operates.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Gamers are killing genres by not buying games. Huge groups of gamers are only buying GTA, FIFA, CoD and Battlefield. Games are more expensive to make than ever which means they need to sell. The examples of new IP that didn't sell enough despite their quality are legion. It can bury IPs, genres and studios.
AudioEppa
Member
I hate to be selfish like this, but if they can't do it all, I'm happy it's games like UD and Detroit that continue on being released.
ahh.. it comes back to Shu in the end. I have mixed feelings on the subject to be honest.
GG Cambridge should not have been put to work on a VR game after what they accomplished with KZ mercenary.
on the other hand
he green-lit Horizon
Ninja Scooter
Member
Why not? They needed VR content for their new platform, and by all accounts, RIGS was a decent game, it just didn't sell or gain much traction. It's not personal.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Thats fine, and i have the right to criticize them for not properly utilizing a talented studio.
RichiRamjag
Member
Damn Sony killing all the rail shooters!
Ninja Scooter
Member
Okay. Have at it.
You guys can't complain about Sony not taking risks in one breath and then complain that essentially they took too many risks with Guerilla by having them support brand new platforms in the next.
Do we want to avoid studio shakeups, or do we want more risks?
There's a tradeoff we can't ignore.
Do we want to avoid studio shakeups, or do we want more risks?
There's a tradeoff we can't ignore.
ronaldthump
Member
Well, the problem is sales. People aren't buying these games so they get shuttered.
Also, if entire genres are being killed off as you say' its because no one else is making them.
Also, if entire genres are being killed off as you say' its because no one else is making them.
Quadraphonic
Member
You can complain about issues with MNR and LBPK, but at least they existed.
Now we got, what?
Now we got, what?
LifeBrandRobot
Member
I blame everyone who don't support studios they like.
I agree with the sentiment here. I like when first party development behaves like a public broadcaster, filling genre niches that are not served by commercial broadcasters. While I enjoy blockbuster first party shooters and whatever they don't seem like the sort of think that would be lacking if it were left up to 3rd party publishers.
I think in the past Sony has been better at behaving like a public broadcaster than Microsoft. Midway through last generation, when they had a large marketshare, it seemed MS was shutting down studios that couldn't offer ROI similar to Gears or Halo games (Ensemble comes to mind). Now Sony has the lead and it seems like they are behaving in the same way.
I guess their logic is either that they don't need to invest in these smaller games to attract relatively small numbers of customers or that there is good enough 3rd party support to fill all the genre gaps in their lineup.
I think in the past Sony has been better at behaving like a public broadcaster than Microsoft. Midway through last generation, when they had a large marketshare, it seemed MS was shutting down studios that couldn't offer ROI similar to Gears or Halo games (Ensemble comes to mind). Now Sony has the lead and it seems like they are behaving in the same way.
I guess their logic is either that they don't need to invest in these smaller games to attract relatively small numbers of customers or that there is good enough 3rd party support to fill all the genre gaps in their lineup.
RichiRamjag
Member
You see it all the time here. Someone will say how awesome a game looks or how different it is, then right after say they'll wait for a sale.
LiquidSolid
Member
It's absolutely wrong though. They did rely on third party support at first but even back then, Sony were consistently building up their first party and the PS3 lineup was the end result of that work. Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, Guerrilla and Polyphony didn't just come out of nowhere.
Ok, fair enough. But for your second point, just because Sony is restructuring their Europe division doesn't mean they are not making new games from that division. As for GG Cambridge, when was the last console project that they work on? We don't even know if they are working on anything for PS4, since they are a small studio. For Evolution, they screwed up their chance with Driveclub, a generic driving game, when Sony already has their trumph card, GT. So saying that it impact their gaming portfolio is a strech.
It kinda goes both ways with publishers as well, it's just the current state of gaming makes current AAA games like the ones you mentioned take too much of anyone's time to play anything else really.
Hell I still hit up BF4 constantly and that game came out years ago. To be honest the only way to play tons of varied games these days and support different genres is by going indie most of the time and stick to single player as much as you can. Just because a gamer plays kart games doesn't mean they don't play COD too know what I mean.
Hell just play a Moba and you might miss a whole gen easy.
Ninja Scooter
Member
But they are sort of doing that. There isn't a lot out there like Uncharted or The Last of Us. That is a lot of what allowed those games to succeed and stand out. Right now what you are seeing a lot from third parties is a lot of multiplayer action games and a lot of emergent "twitch ready" type games. Sony isn't really chasing that. You could argue that Horizon is maybe in that Ubisoft/open world mode, but outside of that Sony isn't trying to compete in that already crowded space, and it's probably the right move.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Sony had incredible third party exclusives on PS1 and PS2, but on PS3 their first party went hard in the paint, imo Sony was the best publisher last gen. It was incredible to watch how hard Playstation fought back when their backs were against the wall.
I still consider Sony a top 3 publisher easy (probably behind only Nintendo) but they are downsizing their first party. The only question is how small is their first party going to get?
Im worried about Bend and Media Molecule in particular.
I still consider Sony a top 3 publisher easy (probably behind only Nintendo) but they are downsizing their first party. The only question is how small is their first party going to get?
Im worried about Bend and Media Molecule in particular.
randomengine
Banned
Sony is no Sega. PlayStation game diversity has declined since PS2. 80% of their games are now "shootie, shootie, zombie, zombie". Shooting people. Killing zombies. Or both.
The whole game industry suffered when Sega fell.
If I want game diversity today, I play on Nintendo systems.
The whole game industry suffered when Sega fell.
If I want game diversity today, I play on Nintendo systems.
Whhhat?
I think you meant MS.
boredandlazy
Member
Yeah, when I had to take Trico out the back 'Old Yeller' style and put him down, I realised how many unnecessary shooters are released by Sony.
randomengine
Banned
Did you miss the 80%? How long did it take them to make the game again? It almost didn't see the light of day and you won't see another. Same goes for Until Dawn. Sony will give that studio some goddamn zombie shooter.
Smaller hopefully, it will suck at first but honestly in today's age exclusives don't matter as much as GAF makes them out to be. I play Xbox only this gen and don't care about any particular systems exclusives really. There are way too many good games coming out everywhere. But that's not why I say it thou.
One of my favorite devs ever on Sony are insomniac, and I'm super happy they never let themselves be bought because of they did, they would of gone under as well. I'd rather have any dev have control of their own future and survive rather than live of the will of some parent companies circumstances.
Bend, Evo and media molecule would any of their games more of a fighting chance of they were allowed to be even just on PC. Same shit with other devs who went under on other platforms. But some people won't see it that way because they would rather have "lists" to pull out of their ass for forum fights rather than their favorite games being played on different platforms.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Wait wait wait, weren't you just in that MS thread talking about how only Nintendo and Sony filled creative voids in the industry and MS needed to hop off the train, and now you're saying only Nintendo does?
What?
Meh Motorstorm is mediocre.
Mario Kart is on Nintendo platforms and the Mario Kart series is substantially superior in every way.
No point in keeping 1st Party Studios that are not profitable open in any kind of real world business operation.
I think Media Molecule might be next because Little Big Planet 3, Tearaway bombed in sales and Dreams is likely to be a flop.
.
Mario Kart is on Nintendo platforms and the Mario Kart series is substantially superior in every way.
No point in keeping 1st Party Studios that are not profitable open in any kind of real world business operation.
I think Media Molecule might be next because Little Big Planet 3, Tearaway bombed in sales and Dreams is likely to be a flop.
.
randomengine
Banned
Killzone - shooting folks
Last of us - zombie shooter
Uncharted - shooter with zombies
Ratchet and clank - shooting shit
Bloodborne - zombies
Days gone - shooting zombies
Second son - getting shot at
The order - shooting shit
Until dawn - zombies
God of war - will have zombies
Leaving...
Knack
Resogun
Horizon - robots instead of zombies and a bow instead of a gun
Tearaway
What am I missing?
And that doesn't even include multi-platform games!
I mean, if Media Molecule wants to make a game that people want to buy/play, that would be cool too.
It's like Pokemon Go, no one can do it and attain the success like them.
There are only certain IP that does well in certain genres, sales wise. Kart Racing and Smash equivalent without the strength of mascots is a really hard sell.
They are better off channeling the resources to other genres.
There are only certain IP that does well in certain genres, sales wise. Kart Racing and Smash equivalent without the strength of mascots is a really hard sell.
They are better off channeling the resources to other genres.
Im happy but its not like the good old days, Resistance series, Motorstorm, Warhawk, Getaway,Wipeout..
Yes we are getting Wipeout HD remake but they closed down Liverpool studios, so I assume no new wipeout.
SolidSnakex
Member
Some of their experimenting last gen just ended in failure. They have to acknowledge that just as much as gamers do. From a karting perspective, LBPK and Modnation both look terrible visually. Just look at what Nintendo did with Mario Kart 8, a game that isn't on much more powerful hardware, compared to those two. MK8 is visually consistent and flatout gorgeous aside from the jaggies. It's also a game that runs at 60fps. Yes, it also has frame pacing, but those other two games run at 30fps with framerate drops. Why the hell is that?
The tracks also aren't anywhere near as fun. Sure, a major part of those is in creating tracks, but you also should have great tracks on disc from the start. In general the games were really just a mess. Nintendo basically has the formula distilled to its purest form and those other games missed the point. I think in many ways Crash Team Racing was the last non-Mario Kart game that got it right. Although Diddy Kong Racing did a lot right as well.
With that said, I don't htink they're scaling development back as much as some fear. Yoshida was recently asked about 2017 and said this
http://gematsu.com/2017/01/atlus-sq...re-2017-ambitions-famitsu-dengeki-playstation
This is especially notabole because after PSX there were some people in the first party thread speculating that we may have seen all of Sony's in development games aside from whatever Sucker Punch is working on.
Some additional comments from Sony Japan producers
http://gematsu.com/2016/12/4gamer-interviews-japanese-creators-2017-ambitions#XQyikEy44EWljt9H.99
The tracks also aren't anywhere near as fun. Sure, a major part of those is in creating tracks, but you also should have great tracks on disc from the start. In general the games were really just a mess. Nintendo basically has the formula distilled to its purest form and those other games missed the point. I think in many ways Crash Team Racing was the last non-Mario Kart game that got it right. Although Diddy Kong Racing did a lot right as well.
With that said, I don't htink they're scaling development back as much as some fear. Yoshida was recently asked about 2017 and said this
http://gematsu.com/2017/01/atlus-sq...re-2017-ambitions-famitsu-dengeki-playstation
This is especially notabole because after PSX there were some people in the first party thread speculating that we may have seen all of Sony's in development games aside from whatever Sucker Punch is working on.
Some additional comments from Sony Japan producers
http://gematsu.com/2016/12/4gamer-interviews-japanese-creators-2017-ambitions#XQyikEy44EWljt9H.99
randomengine
Banned
Nintendo systems are low on "shootie shootie zombie zombie".
Unknown?
Member
Wasn't that what HD/Fury were in the first place? They couldn't even make one freaking original game for the PS3, it was just a remake of some tracks from the PSP. I loved the game but they really shit the bed when it came to a decent output.
Yeah I think they're just restructuring and not really downsizing. Getting rid of unproductive teams.
CamHostage
Member
But Motorstorm does not sell mullions upon millions on Sony consoles. Not Motorstorm 1, not Motorstorm Pacific Rift, not Motorstorm Apocalypse, not Motorstorm Arctic Edge, not Mostorstorm RC. So
Ando it is also totally absent because of the changing interest of the fanbase. They are saying with their dollars that they want Call of Duty and to a lesser extent Battlefield, and are saying no to more complicated and technical shooter experiences these days. I would have liked to have seen one more SOCOM to prove otherwise (especially since SOCOM 4 was more the former than the latter true-SOCOM,) but the absence of any successful hardcore military shooter in years and years seems to show where the gamers are at.
By definition, sure. But they can always hire a studio to make those games, or if a third party wants to make it then they're open to it as well. Sony didn't want to be in the futuristic racer market anymore, and boom -- a half-dozen Wipeout clones (several of which involve original Wipeout designers) as well as a new official remake. SOCOM also almost was resurrected-by-clone with H-Hour, but sadly that project fell apart. Sony has also contracted companies to make Fat Princess and LBP follow-ups, and resurrected Shadow of the Beast independently. Sony don't need to own the company to make the game.
The days of the platform maker being the end-all-be-all lead producer for a console seem to be behind us. The market is now open for others to fill those holes, and Sony keeping open studios just to farm niche markets seems an outdated model (though a model I wish still existed.)
boredandlazy
Member
The fact that it took so long yet Sony still bothered to release it should tell you all you need to know.
Well that's fascinating to read. Thanks for sharing that I had no idea. If brexit really was going to help lower the cost of development in UK studios though surely that would've factored into the consideration before closing Cambridge studios. Maybe it still wasn't enough?
If this isn't trolling at this point, I don't know what is.
How many of those 55 million were bought to play Sony's games as opposed to the big third-party hitters? How many of those hundreds of millions of games sold were first or second party?
Aside from Gran Turismo on the PS1 and PS2, PlayStation systems were never really defined by their first-party lineups - third-parties always did most of the heavy-lifting. I'd even say that SCE only found a type of game it excels in (cinematic action games with high production values) in middle of the PS3 generation with Uncharted 2, and really cemented themselves as an industry leader in that genre with The Last of Us.
What we're seeing now is Sony WWS consolidating their resources around what they do best while allocating less to other ventures. There will still be off the wall projects here and there for variety's sake and Japan Studio will most likely keep doing its own thing, but I feel a lot of their games from now will adopt the Naughty Dog template, potentially applying it to other genres as well. There's already a very recent example of this with the new God of War.
The rest of their budget will probably go towards the funding of third-party developed exclusives (Bloodborne) and marketing/exclusive deals with the big third-party series (GTA, FIFA, CoD, FF, etc...).
Lol lol
DidntKnowJack
Member
Yup. Though I loved HD/Fury, they were essentially a port of the PSP games. And...here they come again. Excitement.
I'm really surprised Sony hasn't used the success of the PS4 to push harder for some new exclusives and revived IP... You would think they'd have the funds to put together some new teams for this stuff. Seems like investing in new games would have been a better bet than a PS4Pro... but I guess that's just me.