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The Mass Effect Community Thread

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E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
And that's a wrap. One final goodbye playthrough of Mass Effect 3 with all DLC and extended cut: complete. Time to pack away the trilogy away for good and move on to Andromeda.

masseffect32017-01-30k8rgg.jpg

masseffect32017-01-309ur76.jpg


While the extended cut does indeed add a lot of substantial, important cinematography and exposition. And the DLC (particularly Leviathan and From Ashes) are necessary to fluff up and give plausibility to the concepts. The actual ending itself, notably its development and implementation of themes and concepts, is still fucking dreadful.

I'm not hurt by it anymore; I've made my peace, the journey is worth it, and the aforementioned DLC content does give birth to some legitimately interesting ideas. It's just a shame that BioWare's lack of intellectual grace, perhaps a product of a rushed development cycle, flounders so tragically at its own premise. Like the worst salesman handling a product that might be interesting, you're left deterred and unconvinced by the pitch. Even if it's not the direction I would have taken the series, the notion of cyclic conflict between organic and artificial intelligence, inevitably course of organic/synthetic evolution and how we'll get there, and the Reapers themselves being the product of a wayward AI attempting to explore and solve the issues present, is fine in theory. There's potential there. But instead it paddles up shit creek to turd waterfall, and you wonder why you're in the boat and willingly heading there at all.

But that's that. There's good stuff in there, courtesy of the extended cut. There's some good philosophy and uplifting futurist mumbo jumbo. There's some heart, and beyond my disappointment and cynicism I can find warmth in that.

As a side, it does put in perspective that Andromeda will be drawing from the series at arguably its most prime in lore. Exceedingly little baggage and thematic dissonance related to the Shepard trilogy and what it explores. A comfortable place.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
EatChildren said:
Even if it's not the direction I would have taken the series, the notion of cyclic conflict between organic and artificial intelligence, inevitably course of organic/synthetic evolution and how we'll get there, and the Reapers themselves being the product of a wayward AI attempting to explore and solve the issues present, is fine in theory. There's potential there. But instead it paddles up shit creek to turd waterfall, and you wonder why you're in the boat and willingly heading there at all.
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I agree with all comments. As for the quoted, this is something I argued back in the day until I was blue in the face (not on gaf yet at that point; mostly bioware forums and gamefaqs).

Probably not what I would have done, but the premise was absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with it at all imo. People were dropping xzibit memes left and right, but that was bullshit imo. The "reaper logic" was fine. No, we didn't "prove them wrong" if we made peace between the Geth and Quarians (that was used as the "smoking gun" for why the ending was bad by a ton of people). That's one conflict, one time. We have no idea what they've seen in their millions of years of existence.

But nevertheless, yes, the execution was very very poor on so many levels; even after the EC (though Leviathan helped at least a bit). But as you said, I've long since made peace with it. ME3 is still an excellent game. I did a run of all three in late 2014 if I recall correctly, then played the Wii U version of ME3 after the price went to the basement. Not gonna do a trilogy run now, but I AM running ME2 just to get me back in the frame of mind before Andromeda drops. Can't wait.
 
H

Heckler456

Banned
Oh yeah, our amazon equivalent here in Belgium did too! Great! Probably gonna blast through that book in a day and then jump into the game.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
Heckler456 said:
Oh yeah, our amazon equivalent here in Belgium did too! Great! Probably gonna blast through that book in a day and then jump into the game.
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I won't be able to wait to start the game; too hyped, but I figure I'll plow through the book during lunch breaks at work concurrent with playing the game. (I'm sure some people here will put 40 hours into the game and finish the story within a few days... it'll take me at least a couple weeks since my gaming time is limited.)
 
D

DeadlyParasite

Member
So apparently the voice actor for Cora was revealed. Jules de Jongh, who upon investigation was the voice of Triss in The Witcher 1, Faith in the first Mirrors Edge and someone named Clarice in Quantum Break.

Neat.
 
G

goishen

Member
I dunno. I'm just not feeling it. The asploding bad guys and the crafting, like in DA, the one shot killing of guys while trying to search out other enemies. Then, to compare that with "harder" mobs, you have one of those space bears, which you can fight for up to five minutes (or so it appears).

It seems to me that they took all the stuff out of the DAU and put it in our game. If I get stuck on a rock that I can easily walk over, I'm going to be pissed.

EDIT : OH yah, plus lootable enemies. Yay. /sarcasm off
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
goishen said:
I dunno. I'm just not feeling it. The asploding bad guys and the crafting, like in DA, the one shot killing of guys while trying to search out other enemies. Then, to compare that with "harder" mobs, you have one of those space bears, which you can fight for up to five minutes (or so it appears).

It seems to me that they took all the stuff out of the DAU and put it in our game. If I get stuck on a rock that I can easily walk over, I'm going to be pissed.

EDIT : OH yah, plus lootable enemies. Yay. /sarcasm off
Click to expand...
Attempting to digest this post, and largely failing..
 
SliChillax

SliChillax

Member
goishen said:
I dunno. I'm just not feeling it. The asploding bad guys and the crafting, like in DA, the one shot killing of guys while trying to search out other enemies. Then, to compare that with "harder" mobs, you have one of those space bears, which you can fight for up to five minutes (or so it appears).

It seems to me that they took all the stuff out of the DAU and put it in our game. If I get stuck on a rock that I can easily walk over, I'm going to be pissed.

EDIT : OH yah, plus lootable enemies. Yay. /sarcasm off
Click to expand...

what?
 
G

goishen

Member
I liked Inquisition, I just thought that these were supposed to be two different games. I dunno, I'll have to see it for myself. All I can say is thank god for Origin's return policy.
 
K

Killzig

Member
prag16 said:
Circling back to this, Amazon updated the release date to 3/21. This makes more sense than the original 3/28 release date.
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That's good news, I'll definitely pick it up if that's the case. From the look of it these are relatively short, clocking in at like 300 some pages so it shouldn't take too long to get through.
 
K

Killzig

Member
shinobi602 said:
Strange to compare it to Inquisition. For one, there's no story gating behind points like DAI.
Click to expand...

Parsing the post, and Goishen please chime in if I've misinterpreted, it seems like he's concerned about the way the crafting system will be implemented and having combat encounters structured like DA where you've got low hp trash mobs interspersed with one hp bloat enemy. I think Frazier said they'd be talking about the crafting system a little more and that enemy looks like a special case / some sort of roving mini boss situation so I'm not too concerned about that.
 
L

LegalEagleMike

Member
shinobi602 said:
Strange to compare it to Inquisition. For one, there's no story gating behind points like DAI.
Click to expand...

People have been suggesting that Dragon Age was turning into Mass Effect ever since Origins. Now people say that Mass Effect is turning into Dragon Age. I love both and I think they have both held on to their own unique identity.
 
B

Bombless

Member
I certainly would rather not be burdened by throngs of Sniper I, Sniper II, Sniper III etc. Hopefully it's handled in a better way.
 
D

DeadlyParasite

Member
shinobi602 said:
Strange to compare it to Inquisition. For one, there's no story gating behind points like DAI.
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But is the story longer than Inquisition? I really enjoyed the game and count myself a fan of it but that was the critical issue with product. If the total main storyline in a 100 hour RPG is 10 hours you've done something horrifically wrong. I see that as one of the few valid criticisms of the game and I think Inquisition would've been received slightly better (by players) if BioWare had beefy main story to back it up.

The last thing we need in Andromeda is a critical path that takes 8 hours.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
DeadlyParasite said:
I'd like to hear your well-reasoned argument towards having less main story than any of the other Mass Effect titles.
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The critical path in ME2 probably isn't much more than 8 hours. I think the idea is that if the non-mandatory (I don't want to call the loyalty stuff "side" content) missions are extremely well done, an 8 hour critical path isn't a problem in and of itself.

Personally I'm hoping for a beefier critical path though. The ratio of main content to side content in most recent open world type games has been seriously off.
 
M

Mindlog

Member
DeadlyParasite said:
I'd like to hear your well-reasoned argument towards having less main story than any of the other Mass Effect titles.
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Less or more is isn't an important metric to me. I could easily cut the main path of any of the previous campaigns down and still enjoy them. For example I could dramatically cut the fat on Noveria instead of solving mysteries through two hubs before reaching a critical time sensitive objective. If the game is great I'm going to be replaying it a few times anyway. If the multiplayer is great then my time spent there will similarly dwarf all of the time I've cumulatively spent on Mass Effect campaigns.

Give me a quality tight knit central story. If it's 10 hours, cool. If it's 40 hours, cool.

Besides, every Mass Effect games has had relatively short DLCs that surpass most of the main story in quality. Bring Down the Sky was really great and had one of my favorite dilemmas for an ending. Was really let down when the resolution of that thread fell so short.
 
D

DeadlyParasite

Member
prag16 said:
The critical path in ME2 probably isn't much more than 8 hours. I think the idea is that if the non-mandatory (I don't want to call the loyalty stuff "side" content) missions are extremely well done, an 8 hour critical path isn't a problem in and of itself.

Personally I'm hoping for a beefier critical path though. The ratio of main content to side content in most recent open world type games has been seriously off.
Click to expand...

Sure, if you want an ending where everyone dies and Shepard is dead. I'm talking critical as in important enough to get the best reasonable ending without side content.

Not even the Witcher 3 with its vast open explorable world has a 1/10 story to side-content ratio as Inquisition does.

To put this even more bluntly, a Mass Effect game made in a rushed 2 year timeframe and released 5 years ago has 20-30 hours of meaningful main story content. Dragon Age 2, a game with a horrifically short dev time of around 16 months has a chunky meaningful main story path of around 16-20 hours.

No amount of mental gymnastics could possibly justify why Andromeda should have less main story on a whopping 5 year dev cycle than either of those two. It truly is Inquisitions greatest failing that it had so little story.
 
R

Renekton

Member
It's a new universe with lots of world-building again, so a higher sidequest/fluffabout to main quest ratio is expected.

Witcher 3 main quest is prolonged by super long travels to trigger point, NPC escorts and also semi-hard level-gating. If you took out those, I wonder if you can get all done under 10 hours.
 
SliChillax

SliChillax

Member
I beat Infinite Warfare with all its fun side missions in around 9 and a half - 10 hours, I expect the main quests + priority missions in Andromeda to be at least 12 hours.
 
R

Renekton

Member
SliChillax said:
I beat Infinite Warfare with all its fun side missions in around 9 and a half - 10 hours, I expect the main quests + priority missions in Andromeda to be at least 12 hours.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't ME:A have the same 9-10 hour expectation as IW?

Furthermore this is comparing IW + all side missions versus ME:A + only priority sides.
 
SliChillax

SliChillax

Member
Renekton said:
Shouldn't ME:A have the same 9-10 hour expectation as IW?

Furthermore this is comparing IW + all side missions versus ME:A + only priority sides.
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Only reason I'm including side missions is because they were very well done and didn't feel like filler content. They could have been part of the main campaign without being called side missions. And I expect an action rpg to have a longer main campaign than a yearly first person shooter.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'm not convinced a critical path is an issue so much as the pacing and quality of said path, alongside organic integration with side content.

Mass Effect 1's critical path is exceedingly short, but the structure of the games and thematic focus encourages a slow pacing as you comb over all the side content. Mass Effect 2 is an odd beast; the critical path is also quite short, but the optional loyalty missions basically double the length and due to their importance feel like a natural part of the critical arc anyway. Mass Effect 3 is probably the most loaded critical arc, and even that follows a similar path to Mass Effect 2, where the optional content takes place at sensible points in the critical arc where you're encouraged to pursue them anyway.

I feel this is where Inquisition faltered; basically the total structure of the critic arc and the side content. The critical arc is very short and not particularly engaging until towards the end (and then drops the ball with its shitful climax), making it a fairly quick grind from start to finish with no real sense of journey or accomplishment. Straddled alongside this is a combination of lukewarm loyalty mission-like content that don't feel integrated with the main arc and few if any of which hold a candle to Mass Effect 2's standard, and a ton of long winded, detached drip feed content experienced by wandering the open landscapes.

Irrespective of how much enjoyment can be derived from each component, it's how they come together (read: don't) that to me hinders the critical arc. I like Inquisition, but its pacing is content design is dreadfully fragmented and scattered in quality and consistency. It's such a weird game in that respect. I quite like most of the cast and enjoyed engaging with them. And some of my favourite moments came from aimlessly exploring the landscapes. But none of this came together as a coherent whole, certainly not with the critical arc. It's like a game full of random stuff.
 
DevilDog

DevilDog

Member
What we need is ME1 levels of critical path and ME2 levels of side missions (aka loyalty,recruitment).

It sounds impossible but we will see. I don't have faith that the exploration as side content will be good.
 
M

Maledict

Member
The thing for me that made Me 2 (and Me3) so brilliant was the fact there was zero 'filler'. Every side quest in me2 was hand crafted and had a story - be it the mercs in the swamp with the unique lighting, the rogue robots chain, or the weird geth weather station stuff. Everything had a reason for existing and felt like someone had put time and effort into it. Both Me1 and DA:I failed to do the same - ME1 had endless procedural generated worlds with cardboard cut out identi-bases, and DA:I had tons and tons of shitty side content that was just pointless grind.

In comparison, every single fight and mission in me2 was there for a reason. There was no grind at all, no random encounters, and no content for the sake of content. That's one of the main reasons I still think it's the best game in the series.
 
DevilDog

DevilDog

Member
Maledict said:
The thing for me that made Me 2 (and Me3) so brilliant was the fact there was zero 'filler'. Every side quest in me2 was hand crafted and had a story - be it the mercs in the swamp with the unique lighting, the rogue robots chain, or the weird geth weather station stuff. Everything had a reason for existing and felt like someone had put time and effort into it. Both Me1 and DA:I failed to do the same - ME1 had endless procedural generated worlds with cardboard cut out identi-bases, and DA:I had tons and tons of shitty side content that was just pointless grind.

In comparison, every single fight and mission in me2 was there for a reason. There was no grind at all, no random encounters, and no content for the sake of content. That's one of the main reasons I still think it's the best game in the series.
Click to expand...

It's not only that, ME2 delivered it's side missions with a very high and consistent quality, because it focused on what Bioware does exceedingly well, characters. ME3 side missions had story, I couldn't care less about it sometimes. (Although, come on, the random missions on planets and the planet scanning were boring af.)

However what dragged ME3, and mostly ME2 down was the lack of a good critical path.
 
O

obeast

Member
DevilDog said:
However what dragged ME3, and mostly ME2 down was the lack of a good critical path.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think ME2 is as bad an offender as ME3, actually - it's just easy to forget the sub-par main story because a lot of the "side" content is as about as good as anything Bioware has ever done (the writing in the recruiting and loyalty missions is often better than anything in ME1), and is cleverly interwoven with main story.

It's sort of frustrating, because ME1 created a logical exploration-style story possibility for its sequels: Shepard is the only guy/gal who can understand the Prothean language, and one of the only people with an understanding of the threat posed by Reapers. It would be pretty natural to have him/her spend the second game investigating Prothean relics in various fascinating locations a la ME1, looking for information on how to beat the Reapers. Instead, the main missions are narrowly focused on a new threat, involve almost exclusively empty settlements or ships (i.e., no exploration of alien or colonial culture, whatsoever), and are irritatingly linear.

ME3 made a basic mistake, I think, in having the Reapers invade at all, making the main plot nearly incoherent ("why don't they just conquer the citadel and kill/indoctrinate the council? Why don't they just indoctrinate someone into telling them where the Alliance superweapon-in-progress is and then blow it up?") and, again, forestalling any notion of more leisurely exploration, this time in favor of empty "war is hell" nonsense.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
Garlador said:
"Scott" is the bro Ryder.

And every game will always have clipping until we perfect this technology about 30 years from now...
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Who is Liam then?

I dunno about 30 years, give it like 5.
DevilDog said:
It is.
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dat pose
goat said:
Well, you can call it that. I call it shit posting by trying to say something #savage so the poster can then be rewarded with pages and pages of deadpinocchio.jpg, laughingjordan.gif and reckt.gif with no other input whatsoever.

For example, how does a post saying "It looks uninspired" add anything to the conversion? What is uninspired about it? Or the "Mass Effect: Inquisition" posts. What makes the game remind them of Inquisition? Elaborate.
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I haven't looked at all those threads or posts but a post like - maybe the guy just wanted to give his honest thoughts quickly and get it over with. Someone else may be uber excited but other posts like that signify a lot of fans being wary this time around.
Dandy Lyin said:
No, I mean overall, but the most recent thread is certainly taking it to a new level.
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They're still excited/interested in the game though, otherwise they wouldn't bother checking the media and footage out.
 
H

Heckler456

Banned
To completely fix clipping, you basically need a realistic physics system and some kind of realistic physics-based animation system for every single and solitary object in your gameworld. Or at the very least, a very close approximation of it. We're getting closer, but 5 years? Hmm, I personally don't think so. You have to hold into account too that fidelity is still going up at a very steady pace. And for every increase in fidelity, you have more and more cases in which clipping becomes an issue, in turn increasing the amount of power you need to invest in making the physics and animations work.

But like, to be frank, I already barely notice clipping anymore.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
The Artisan said:
They're still excited/interested in the game though, otherwise they wouldn't bother checking the media and footage out.
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Come on now. You've been on gaf long enough to know that this is very often not the case. Concern trolling and drive by shitting are prevalent, and not just for Mass Effect.
 
Mediking

Mediking

Member
Okay now that I've thought about it... Cora isn't exactly the blonde beauty I expected... lol but its okay. I was hoping for a Miranda successor... where is she?!
 
B

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Mediking said:
Okay now that I've thought about it... Cora isn't exactly the blonde beauty I expected... lol but its okay. I was hoping for a Miranda successor... where is she?!
Click to expand...

Something about her nose bug me a little, but I guess i'll get used to it.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
prag16 said:
Come on now. You've been on gaf long enough to know that this is very often not the case. Concern trolling and drive by shitting are prevalent, and not just for Mass Effect.
Click to expand...

if that really is the case then just let them be, don't give them that attention. scroll and post on.
 
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