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[Digital Foundry] New Scorpio Spec Leak: ESRAM Gone, GPU Features Revealed

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T

Thats a Greay Area

Member
massucci said:
In the scheme of the big numbers, 6 TF Vs 4.2 TF and a year after, isn't exactly the most impressive boost from the two console. Otherwise the bandwidth. From 217 GB to 320 GB, it's definitely a good increase.
Still I think it was a terrible, terrible idea put just 217 GB on pro, especially if checkerboard will be the major feature of this hardware. I suspect Pro hasn't a long life span in the Sony plan.
Click to expand...

How long do you think the Pro will be on the market?
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
MosquitoSmasher said:
Ok, i stand corrected. As i said before i am not very tech savvy. That doesn't sound too shabby. ANd this is compared to PS4 Pro?

Also would that be able to run BF1 on 4K/60fps? Or is that impossible to say yet?
Click to expand...
No that's compared to the original Xbox One.
 
R

Ricky_R

Member
Collingwood said:
I'm liking the sound of Xbox One Plus
Click to expand...

I don't know... While the subtitle might not be extremely important, I don't think Plus represents well the upgrade Scorpio is possibly going to offer. Plus sounds more like something extra, a slight improvement. Names like Pro, Ultra or Elite (for example) give a better perception of improvement. Imo of course.
 
link1201

link1201

Member
I have a really basic question if anyone is willing to explain it to me. What does having Zen included get you that not having it doesn't?
 
C

Conduit

Banned
hanspampel said:
How does that! Pretty much gurantees not zen?



Jesus Christ. She did not said that.
i'll give you 100 million $ when you find me a quote where she said "no semicustom (Ry)zen before 2018"
Click to expand...


Summary of Lisa Su's statement :

Lisa Su

"Well, I think, if you look today at the semi-custom business, it's been primarily game console driven. And it’s been again very, very pleased with the franchise that we’ve built around that. We do have engagements outside of game consoles, and that will ramp, let’s call it, more in the 2018 timeframe. The other thing you should expect is I talked about our Zen roadmap for our products, so in terms of desktops servers and notebooks. But one should expect Zen in our semi-custom roadmap as well as we go – as we look beyond 2017 into the ’18, ’19 timeframe. And so, we really do view this as we’re developing foundational IP that can go into a number of different markets. And we have good prospects in those areas."
Click to expand...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...-and-telecom-conference-transcript/ar-AAkYEcZ
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Conduit said:
Summary of Lisa Su's statement :



http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...-and-telecom-conference-transcript/ar-AAkYEcZ
Click to expand...

It is the 1000th time somebody shows him the exactly quote from her mouth...

He still says she never said that lol

coverears.jpg
Click to expand...
 
2

2blackcats

Member
Xbox Two

Then they can just keep that system going forward. Will be handy when games are only compatible compatible with Xbox Two and Three(if that happens). Nice and simple.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
2blackcats said:
Xbox Two

Then they can just keep that system going forward. Will be handy when games are only compatible compatible with Xbox Two and Three(if that happens). Nice and simple.
Click to expand...
I believe Xbox "Two" will be the 2019/2020 release.

Scorpio will be Xbox One "Something".
 
Caayn

Caayn

Member
2blackcats said:
Xbox Two

Then they can just keep that system going forward. Will be handy when games are only compatible compatible with Xbox Two and Three(if that happens). Nice and simple.
Click to expand...
While I think that Xbox One Pro/Elite sounds better, I'd prefer that they kept the naming simple. It'd indeed make it easier to clarify compatibility if they go for generationless system as they're bound to drop support for systems at times. It'd also allow them to use the X1, X2, X3, etc. naming scheme. Similar to how Sony uses PS1, PS2, PS3, etc.

The numerical defines the major version and anything behind that defines the model of that major version. Similar to how Xbox One S defines the slim model of the Xbox One and Xbox One Elite defines the Xbox One model with a hybrid drive. Xbox Two S would be the slim version of Xbox Two and Xbox Two Elite would be a small incremental upgrade similar to the Xbox One Elite.
 
Colbert

Colbert

Banned
ethomaz said:
It is the 1000th time somebody shows him the exactly quote from her mouth...

He still says she never said that lol
Click to expand...

It depends how you want to read it as she changes the subject to market segments other than gaming beginning with the 3rd sentence. It is not crystal clear (at least to me) if the statements about the roadmap includes all market segments or just the segments outside of gaming.

Lisa Su

"Well, I think, if you look today at the semi-custom business, it's been primarily game console driven. And it's been again very, very pleased with the franchise that we've built around that.

We do have engagements outside of game consoles, and that will ramp, let's call it, more in the 2018 timeframe. The other thing you should expect is I talked about our Zen roadmap for our products, so in terms of desktops servers and notebooks.

But one should expect Zen in our semi-custom roadmap as well as we go – as we look beyond 2017 into the '18, '19 timeframe. And so, we really do view this as we're developing foundational IP that can go into a number of different markets. And we have good prospects in those areas."
Click to expand...
 
MilkyJoe

MilkyJoe

Member
Colbert said:
It depends how you want to read it as she change the subject to markets other than gaming beginning with the 3rd sentence. It is not crystal clear (at least to me) if the statements about the roadmap includes all market segments or just the segments outside of gaming.
Click to expand...

Lisa Su

"Well, I think, if you look today at the semi-custom business, it's been primarily game console driven. And it’s been again very, very pleased with the franchise that we’ve built around that.

We do have engagements outside of game consoles, and that will ramp, let’s call it, more in the 2018 timeframe. The other thing you should expect is I talked about our Zen roadmap for our products, so in terms of desktops servers and notebooks.

But one should expect Zen in our semi-custom roadmap as well as we go – as we look beyond 2017 into the ’18, ’19 timeframe. And so, we really do view this as we’re developing foundational IP that can go into a number of different markets. And we have good prospects in those areas."
Click to expand...

And people, from that, are saying it is set in stone that there is nothing in consoles until after 2018?

I take it the above is verbatim?
 
L

Liabe Brave

Member
hanspampel said:
She did not said that.
i'll give you 100 million $ when you find me a quote where she said "no semicustom (Ry)zen before 2018"
Click to expand...
[Url="https://www.computerbase.de/2016-08/amd-grafikkarten-marktanteil/?amp=1]Here you go. [/url]
You owe me 100 million dollars, you sexist, racist idiot.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
ethomaz said:
It is the 1000th time somebody shows him the exactly quote from her mouth...

He still says she never said that lol
Click to expand...
But her quote doesn't say what he asked.

Semantics I know, but that's precisely the point that she is playing with words to give a no answer.
 
Colbert

Colbert

Banned
MilkyJoe said:
Well if that's what she said then that's some top shelf reaching people are doing.
Click to expand...

Telling, isn't it?

To change the subject a little bit, after listen to the interview of Phil Spencer with IGN I think it is save to say that Scorpio will come with 12GB of RAM. And if assumed that cost is a major factor it is also save to say that that RAM will be of type GDDR5.
 
H

hanspampel

Banned
Conduit said:
Summary of Lisa Su's statement :



http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...-and-telecom-conference-transcript/ar-AAkYEcZ
Click to expand...

yes, that is the correct quote and i'm aware of it.
and it does not say "there will be no zen in semi custom in 2017"
it says "but one should expect Zen in our semi-custom roadmap as well as we go -- as we look beyond 2017 into the '18, '19 timeframe"
and it's not even sure if that statement is excluding or including gaming, as she made a distinction about that in the very same statement. and the question and overall context of that conversation was about "going into the higher market segments" and lisa said numerous times, that console semi custom is low end / low maring segment ;)

here is the conversation:
Lisa Su
Yes, it's fair to say. So, if you look at our margin profiles today, they are heavily weighted by our game console business. And our game console business tends to have gross margins that are below the corporate average. But frankly have operating margins that are actually very healthy, because it's a model where customers actually paid for the engineering. And so the fall-through is very high. I think at a broader level though, at a broader level, we believe that margin expansion is extremely important in our business, certainly in the semiconductor business margin expansion is critical.
As we get into the higher end segments, such as high-end PCs, high-end servers, high-end GPUs. You will see our margin profile shift up with that product mix. As it relates to the custom business I think it's more market specific than business model specific. So, if we were doing custom in the data center, I think you would see higher margins versus game consoles, which happen to be, let's call it very high volume silicon TAM but tend to be more price sensitive.

John Pitzer
That's a good segue into my next question. I got you're going to pre-announce any new customers in the custom, semi-custom business. But as you think about moving up to those higher market segments within that business, what's the timeline? How do we think about milestones over the next, call it, four to eight quarters?

Lisa Su
Well, I think -- if you look today at the semi-custom business, it's been primarily game console driven. And it's been again very, very pleased with the franchise that we've built around that. We do have engagements outside of game consoles, and that will ramp, let's call more in the 2018 timeframe. The other thing you should expect is I talked about our Zen roadmap for our products, so in terms of desktops servers and notebooks. But one should expect Zen in our semi-custom roadmap as well as we go -- as we look beyond 2017 into the '18, '19 timeframe. And so, we really do view this as we're developing foundational IP that can go into a number of different markets. And we have good prospects in those areas.
Click to expand...



ethomaz said:
It is the 1000th time somebody shows him the exactly quote from her mouth...

He still says she never said that lol
Click to expand...

"expect me to have sex with your wife beyond 2017 in the 18, 19 timeframe" =/= "i will not have sex with any woman in 2017 at all"

so again it stands true
she never said "there will be no zen ip in any semi custom business in 2017"

Liabe Brave said:
Wait. Did I miss something? Lmao, y'all wildin'.
Click to expand...


no. just an as weird as possible analogy to prove the point.
no matter the context, "expect whatever at point X". does not equal "no whatever prior point X"
 
Leyasu

Leyasu

Banned
Even though I don't think Zen will be in Scorpio, I interpreted that comment from Lisa Su as if she was NOT talking about the console business. But was instead referring to other markets regarding semi-custom.

We will see
 
Okami Haundo

Okami Haundo

Member
I see we're back to name guessing! My personal guess is that they'll call it "Xbox Infinite" and use that name for all models going forward.

It's both an homage to their history of using non-sequential numbers in the name and a play on the idea of iterative consoles.

Edit: Jesus christ did I end up posting this at a weird time. I was not prepared for where this thread would go while I was typing this...
 
L

Liabe Brave

Member
MilkyJoe said:
And people, from that, are saying it is set in stone that there is nothing in consoles until after 2018?
Click to expand...
No, after 2017.

LukasTaves said:
But her quote doesn't say what he asked.
Click to expand...
It really does.

Lisa Su said:
But one should expect Zen in our semi-custom roadmap as well as we go – as we look beyond 2017 into the ’18, ’19 timeframe.
Click to expand...

If you finely mince the logic, it might seem plausible to say "Well, just because we should expect Zen in 2018 and 2019 that doesn't necessitate that we shouldn't expect it in 2017!" But this is unsupported because of the context. Why does she say "as well" there? The answer is in the previous sentence:

Lisa Su said:
The other thing you should expect is I talked about our Zen roadmap for our products, so in terms of desktops servers and notebooks.
Click to expand...

She's saying that Zen is in the current roadmap for servers and notebooks, but it will be added to the semicustom roadmap as well, in 2018 and 2019. If semicustom were also 2017, it wouldn't be missing from the roadmap she talked about. The validity of this interpretation can be seen by simply flipping the clauses in the main sentence:

"As we look beyond 2017 into the '18, '19 timeframe, one should expect Zen in our semicustom roadmap as well."
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
Liabe Brave said:
No, after 2017.


It really does.



If you finely mince the logic, it might seem plausible to say "Well, just because we should expect Zen in 2018 and 2019 that doesn't necessitate that we shouldn't expect it in 2017!" But this is unsupported because of the context. Why does she say "as well" there? The answer is in the previous sentence:



She's saying that Zen is in the current roadmap for servers and notebooks, but it will be added to the semicustom roadmap as well, in 2018 and 2019. If semicustom were also 2017, it wouldn't be missing from the roadmap she talked about. The validity of this interpretation can be seen by simply flipping the clauses in the main sentence:

"As we look beyond 2017 into the '18, '19 timeframe, one should expect Zen in our semicustom roadmap as well."
Click to expand...
Logic doesn't work like that, nothing in that quote infers no Zen in semi custom designs for 2017.

Don't believe me, there are tools like prolog, where you can input this statements and see if they infer the conclusion you are trying to draw and see for yourself.


Edit: Logic is a very math based science, and you can draw directly what a statement implies or not using the math tools. I can demonstrate that too if you like.
 
T

Thebeardofknowledge

Banned
hanspampel said:
yes, that is the correct quote and i'm aware of it.
and it does not say "there will be no zen in semi custom in 2017"
it says "but one should expect Zen in our semi-custom roadmap as well as we go -- as we look beyond 2017 into the '18, '19 timeframe"
and it's not even sure if that statement is excluding or including gaming, as she made a distinction about that in the very same statement. and the question and overall context of that conversation was about "going into the higher market segments" and lisa said numerous times, that console semi custom is low end / low maring segment ;)

here is the conversation:






"expect me to have sex with your wife beyond 2017 in the 18, 19 timeframe" =/= "i will not have sex with any woman in 2017 at all"

so again it stands true
she never said "there will be no zen ip in any semi custom business in 2017"



doesn't surprise me at all
why should a person that does not know what racism + sexism and the meaning of those words is, know what a quote is and "clearly denied"
at least you're good at personal attacks and constant harassing ;)



no. just an as weird as possible analogy to prove the point.
no matter the context, "expect whatever at point X". does not equal "no whatever prior point X"
Click to expand...


QLdCn.gif
 
L

Liabe Brave

Member
LukasTaves said:
Logic doesn't work like that, nothing in that quote infers no Zen in semi custom designs for 2017.
Click to expand...
Of course nothing "infers" that, because you actually mean "implies". I point out your error not to mock, but to make a point: humans are not logic machines. We're bad at high precision argument construction even when we know exactly what we want to say, and have time to edit and revise. We're even looser in conversational speech. The correct interpretation of Lisa Su's comments is about what they're most likely to have meant, not about what finely-honed conclusion we can sneak through the loopholes that weren't explicitly closed.

That said, even the logic seems clear.

If an item is not on a product roadmap, it's not currently available.
Semicustom Zen is not on a product roadmap.
Semicustom Zen will appear on a product roadmap after 2017.

When is the earliest semicustom Zen will be available?
 
Leyasu

Leyasu

Banned
Liabe Brave said:
That said, even the logic seems clear.

If an item is not on a product roadmap, it's not currently available.
Semicustom Zen is not on a product roadmap.
Semicustom Zen will appear on a product roadmap after 2017.

When is the earliest semicustom Zen will be available?
Click to expand...

I've already said loads of times that I don't think that Zen will be in it.

But I read it like she had already moved on from speaking about the console business when she started talking timelines and roadmaps.
 
M

massucci

Banned
Leyasu said:
I've already said loads of times that I don't think that Zen will be in it.

But I read it like she had already moved on from talking about the console business when she started talking timelines and roadmaps.
Click to expand...
? Semicustom Ryzen are part of the console business.
Collingwood said:
Um...that doesn't confirm anything.

"Don't expect" is not even in the same realm as "There will be no"
Click to expand...
"Don't expect" it means she doesn't even know when it could happen because nothing is on the table now; she can just make a prediction.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
massucci said:
? Semicustom Ryzen are part of the console business.
Click to expand...
Semicustom SoC is the console business... it is how AMD refer to the SoC used by consoles.

Collingwood said:
Um...that doesn't confirm anything.

"Don't expect" is not even in the same realm as "There will be no"
Click to expand...
I can understand that...

When a publisher/developer says "Don't expect x feature" then there are dozen of GAFers hyping and expecting "x" feature.

It is really a weird logic the set the expectations for disappointment (that already is happening to people "thinking" Scorpio is a new gen to replace Xbox One even when MS said it is not since day one).
 
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