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XBOX Scorpio: DX12 Built Directly Into GPU

D

dogen

Member
gofreak said:
Kind of late on this, but they were talking about a whole lot more than draw call usage there. Culling and other scene processing etc. It's not really a good reference point for what draw call usage on its own was like, and how much draw-call cost might be there to be optimised away further by improvements in new hardware.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know. I was talking about an engine that moved that stuff to the gpu and the benefits they got. Not really much to do with the xbox specifically, cause it can be done on pc/ps4 as well.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
Liabe Brave said:
It's pre-DX12, but it was on the "mono driver", as explicitly stated in the quote above.
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Achso. I somehow omitted reading the parenthesis!
Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result.
Click to expand...
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
samred said:
I can't start my own thread, but a colleague of mine at Ars just asked questions about the biggest thing missing from today's reveal, which I think kinda-sorta ties into talk about DX12 benefits to performance.





More at Ars; feel free to repost/new thread/ignore.
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Perhaps a USB C port on the front and some adapter for plugging vr headsets through it?
 
J

jabuseika

Member
The secret sauce.

geordiemp said:
If Scorpio could run Witcher 3 at 1080p60 I would pre-order it, I dont believe it for 1 millisecond and a 2.3 GHz Jaguar will be the turd around its neck, the same way 2.1 GHz jag is the turd around my Ps4 Pro's neck.
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Another beautiful design crippled by an old architecture.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
LordOfChaos said:
I think that was before it got DX12 at all, but that still brings up an interesting point that draw calls cost almost nothing on the PS4 already, from the 2013 hardware.
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Draw calls costs were disproportionate high for a console during launch, but metro is quite a tame game in that regard.

But, didn't the guys at Super punch said Infamous SS actually used a lot of CPU time on PS4 during draw calls? I don't remember and on the run so it's harder to find but I remember something about almost all cores were doing draw calls or something like that.


Edit: No, found the slides. They use 6 cores for render threads. But they do mention that the game used 30k draw calls but they use instancing to reduce that to approximately 10k.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sniffynose said:
Sounds really good, but just like everything the question is whether or not anyone actually makes use of the tech inside.

It's a shame the CPU side is pretty meh, but maybe with all the offloading it evens out.

Might be an excellent option for people not wanting to build a PC but want PC performance in games.

I honestly can't buy one though since I've built a PC recently and with Xbox exclusives like Forza Horizon 3 being on PC I already have the 4k options.

If this was a brand new generation then ya, I'd bite but knowing everything will just be graphical updates vs OG Xbox one it's not very appealing.

Kinda like the PS4 Pro it would be the ideal first time buyer's system, but it's being held back by the past hardware limitations since drastic changes can't be made between them.
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Remember this next time when companies try to hype how awesome iterative hardware is and they let people's imagination run wild ;).
 
Darklor01

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
jabuseika said:
The secret sauce.
Click to expand...

SecretSauceScorpio.jpg
 
K

KageMaru

Member
leeh said:
Only thing I can think of is a Metro2033 dev said they used a full Jag core for it:

Wasn't that on DX11 though? Also, it just sounds like it's improving something which the X1 was poor at, rather than it being something useful across all consoles.
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Hey thanks! I completely missed this till now.

danhese007 said:
No what they are claiming to be in Scorpio does not apply to PS4 as PS4 does not use DX nor does PS4 have issues with draw calls.
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You would think MS would have streamlined the API so that draw calls would be less taxing. That way additional hardware wouldn't be needed or used on things like this.
 
S

Sändersson

Member
Space_nut said:
30fps to 60fps isn't my focus. I care about the actual visual fidelity. That Scorpio will be very much ahead of pro with 4K assets, better AF, 4K native res, more stable fps (either it be 30 or 60) and more

Being able to play a game 30fps or 60fps is a devs choice. But I tell you that the ForzaTech demo that ran 4K native, 60fps rock solid, DYNAMIC WEATHER, pc ultra settings using only 60%-88% of gpu resources says a lot. Add to that it was only a 2 day port with NO utilization of any Scorpio custom tech.
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Haha, this reminds me of myself 10 years ago when PS3 came out. Power of the cell and what not... :"D
Also... what..? (bolded)
 
P

pswii60

Member
Sändersson;233547822 said:
Haha, this reminds me of myself 10 years ago when PS3 came out. :"D
Also... what..? (bolded)
Click to expand...
They upgraded the Forza 6 assets to 4k for Scorpio demo, indicating they'll be using the additional 3GB of available RAM for higher res assets.
 
S

Samurai G0SU

Member
pswii60 said:
They upgraded the Forza 6 assets to 4k for Scorpio demo, indicating they'll be using the additional 3GB of available RAM for higher res assets.
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What was even more interesting is that they only hit about 88% gpu capacity or something. That they still had a little more headroom with that engine load.

So that just tells me they can optimize and deliver a truly visually great 4k game. (already looks great in that shot they gave us)
 
S

Space_nut

Member
Sändersson;233547822 said:
Haha, this reminds me of myself 10 years ago when PS3 came out. :"D
Also... what..? (bolded)
Click to expand...

Read the article. Those textures you see aren't from the og XB1 version. They're original assets artists created at thier native details. What you see in past consoles are devs down res the textures details to make the game run stable. Scorpio allows textures, character models, and such to be displayed at super high details. And AF is what makes textures crisp and clear at distances
 
F

Fisty

Member
Space_nut said:
Read the article. Those textures you see aren't from the og XB1 version. They're original assets artists created at thier native details. What you see in past consoles are devs down res the textures details to make the game run stable. Scorpio allows textures, character models, and such to be displayed at super high details. And AF is what makes textures crisp and clear at distances
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Enjoy your 30GB 4K texture pack downloads
 
M

mcrommert

Banned
Update on Digital Foundry article basically says most of the dx12 stuff is already built into xbox one and one s

Microsoft's Andrew Goossen has been in touch to clarify that D3D12 support at the hardware level is actually a part of the existing Xbox One and Xbox One S too. "Scorpio builds on the Command Processor capability present in the original Xbox One," we're told. "Our implementation of D3D12 supports all Xbox Ones, and games have already shipped that use it. When a game using D3D12 starts up, we reprogram the GPU's Command Processor front-end. The 50 per cent CPU rendering overhead improvement was reported by shipping games. The amount of win is dependent on the game engine and content, and not all games will see that size of improvement. Scorpio's Command Processor provides additional capability and programmability beyond what Xbox One/Xbox One S can do. We plan to take advantage of this in the future
Click to expand...
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
danhese007 said:
No what they are claiming to be in Scorpio does not apply to PS4 as PS4 does not use DX nor does PS4 have issues with draw calls.
Click to expand...

This is the important point, draw calls are not an issue, I read some post saying it used 5-10 % of 1 core in a particular game, and yet some are implying the Scorp CPU is DX supercharged .....
MS has been in touch to say that hardware DX12 in the command processor is also present in Xbox One.
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And we are done here.

The scorpio discussion focus should be on the great GPU and bandwidth choices which will be nice for 4K.
 
R

Risk Breaker

Member
mcrommert said:
Update on Digital Foundry article basically says most of the dx12 stuff is already built into xbox one and one s
Click to expand...

I don't like saying this, but I fucking told ya.

Not you specifically obviously, but the other people talking about the second coming of GPUhrist without actually knowing wtf they're talking about.
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
So basically, that was a longform way of saying Polaris but with the same tweaks regular Xbox One has?

RoboPlato said:
Apparently this was already a part of the XBO design:


https://twitter.com/digitalfoundry/status/850435047429738497

Good on MS for clearing that up instead of letting it go wild as some "secret sauce" theory
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They should have never spouted the bullshit in the first place, the people would have had nothing to run wild with. They knew exactly what they were doing.
 
S

Space_nut

Member
Microsoft's Andrew Goossen has been in touch to clarify that D3D12 support at the hardware level is actually a part of the existing Xbox One and Xbox One S too. "Scorpio builds on the Command Processor capability present in the original Xbox One," we're told. "Our implementation of D3D12 supports all Xbox Ones, and games have already shipped that use it. When a game using D3D12 starts up, we reprogram the GPU's Command Processor front-end. The 50 per cent CPU rendering overhead improvement was reported by shipping games. The amount of win is dependent on the game engine and content, and not all games will see that size of improvement. Scorpio's Command Processor provides additional capability and programmability beyond what Xbox One/Xbox One S can do. We plan to take advantage of this in the future
Click to expand...

So it's improved over what is already in Xbox One. Awesome
 
D

dogen

Member
RoboPlato said:
Apparently this was already a part of the XBO design:




Good on MS for clearing that up instead of letting it go wild as some "secret sauce" theory
Click to expand...

Right, so it's the same thing that Dice was talking about in that presentation.

edit - nvm, i guess they've done more with scorpio.
 
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