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RIP Michael Jackson 1958-2009

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R

Robso

Member
Camper Van Beethoven said:
Here's my source: jackson paid off a family to keep them quiet. Jackson has been accused by multiple people of sexual assault. I don't victim blame. I'm not looking for reasons to discredit the victims. I don't give a shit about ”the media", I care about the fact a rich man paid people to shut up and admitted he invited young boys to stay with him. If you think that isn't an admission of guilt you have very different morals to me my friend!!

The fact you're so emotional about this means it's impossible to reason with you. To you clearly the normal rules don't apply. You're a fan of his shitty music, so you'll just excuse everything.
Click to expand...

Now you're projecting. You're the one swearing. I've posted in a reasonable manner.

Impossible to reason with me? You have never even read a single court document to do with the case. I have. I've asked for what is so convincing about the claims, yet you can't tell me as you don't have a clue.

You don't have any clue about the cases. You've shown that. His music is irrelevant to this discussion. Why are you mentioning it being 'shitty'? I am a fan, yes. However, it has nothing to do with my judgment on the cases. This is a reason to use. Why would I of read about the cases if, because I'm a fan, I'll 'excuse everything'?
 
C

Camper Van Beethoven

Banned
Syder said:
Nice gaslighting, bro.
Click to expand...

That’s not gaslighting. That’s be if it took someone’s kid to my mansion and had them share a bed with me then tried convincing them that by questioning my motives they were the ones who were sick.

Robso said:
Now you're projecting. You're the one swearing. I've posted in a reasonable manner.

Impossible to reason with me? You have never even read a single court document to do with the case. I have. I've asked for what is so convincing about the claims, yet you can't tell me as you don't have a clue.

You don't have any clue about the cases. You've shown that. His music is irrelevant to this discussion. Why are you mentioning it being 'shitty'?
Click to expand...

I don’t need to know about the cases because guilty people get away with things all the time. I know he paid out millions to end a case against him. That’s all the evidence a logical person needs to assume guilt.
 
R

Robso

Member
Camper Van Beethoven said:
That's not gaslighting. That's be if it took someone's kid to my mansion and had them share a bed with me then tried convincing them that by questioning my motives they were the ones who were sick.



I don't need to know about the cases because guilty people get away with things all the time. I know he paid out millions to end a case against him. That's all the evidence a logical person needs to assume guilt.
Click to expand...

Just what on earth are you on about? So, because guilty people have been found innocent before, let's all ignore court documents and assume somebody accused is guilty? How about everybody found guilty, when they're actually innocent, means we should ignore claims made against anybody from here on in?

For the third time, he didn't end a case against him. You don't know how things work.

Also, settlements occur every day. Innocent people/companies settle cases all of the time. The law encourages civil cases to be settled.

Companies have settled cases for years. Do you not shop at such places?

Edit:

In announcing that no charges would be filed now, Gil Garcetti, the Los Angeles District Attorney, said: ”After about 13 or 14 months of investigation this is our conclusion. We have a very important witness who has told us, ‘I am sorry, I do not want to and will not testify.' And I'm telling you that if he stepped forward a month from now, two months from now, and says, ‘I'm willing to testify,' we would re-evaluate our case at that time."
Click to expand...

So, how was somebody paid off here please? Great work from the criminal mastermind Michael Jackson, eh? The boy says 'I'm willing to testify' and MJ's supposed paying to stop a trial happening goes out of the window.. Genius!

Here's more proof a trial wasn't stopped from taking place due to money.

District Attorney:

''The state of the investigation is in suspension until somebody comes forward and testifies," he says.
Click to expand...

Even more proof:

jordan-chandler-has-done-his-part.jpg


So, tell me, how was anybody stopped from testifying? and how was the case ended due to a settlement?
 
C

Camper Van Beethoven

Banned
Robso said:
Just what on earth are you on about? So, because guilty people have been found innocent before, let's all ignore court documents and assume somebody accused is guilty? How about everybody found guilty, when they're actually innocent, means we should ignore claims made against anybody from here on in?

For the third time, he didn't end a case against him. You don't know how things work.

Also, settlements occur every day. Innocent people/companies settle cases all of the time. The law encourages civil cases to be settled.

Companies have settled cases for years. Do you not shop at such places?

Edit:



So, how was somebody paid off here please? Great work from the criminal mastermind Michael Jackson, eh? The boy says 'I'm willing to testify' and MJ's supposed paying to stop a trial happening goes out of the window.. Genius!

Here's more proof a trial wasn't stopped from taking place due to money.

District Attorney:



Even more proof:

jordan-chandler-has-done-his-part.jpg


So, tell me, how was anybody stopped from testifying? and how was the case ended due to a settlement?
Click to expand...

It’s really odd to me that some people willing choose to believe innocent people pay millions of dollars to people who accuse them of sexual assault and are innocent.

Unless you have some sort of secret proof that I don’t know about that he didn’t give millions of dollars to the family that accused him than I’m not terribly interested in any of your logic leaps. OJ Simpson is a free man. That doesn’t mean he didn’t do it.
 
R

Robso

Member
Camper Van Beethoven said:
It's really odd to me that some people willing choose to believe innocent people pay millions of dollars to people who accuse them of sexual assault and are innocent.

Unless you have some sort of secret proof that I don't know about that he didn't give millions of dollars to the family that accused him than I'm not terribly interested in any of your logic leaps. OJ Simpson is a free man. That doesn't mean he didn't do it.
Click to expand...

Each time you post nonsense, and I refute it, you ignore it and move on.

If you think only guilty people settle cases then you really need to do some research.

The usual straw man argument of 'OJ was found innocent'. The two cases aren't even slightly comparable.

'Logic leaps' LOL, court documents = logic leaps.

Let's be fair, you've probably never even read a single page of a court document in your entire life. Yet here you are, thinking you know better than people who actually read documents before passing judgment.

MJ was being told from all angles to settle. He later regretted it. Lisa Marie, his new lawyers, those with his money making ability at the forefront of their mind, his health and losing four court motions are the reason a settlement took place. He could of paid to keep the family quiet before anything went public. So, if guilty, why didn't he? He only settled when things became too much and everything was going against him.

Had MJ gone through with a civil trial, it would of meant having to put his defence strategy on the table, enabling the prosecutors for the criminal case to know every detail he would of been intending to use in the criminal trial. It would mean the prosecution could fix holes in their case. Like in 2005, when they changed the dates of alleged molestion three times as, the first two times, MJ wasn't even at his home.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
Camper Van Beethoven said:
It’s really odd to me that some people willing choose to believe innocent people pay millions of dollars to people who accuse them of sexual assault and are innocent.
Click to expand...
MJ's specific guilt or innocence aside, I don't think this logic holds up to scrutiny.

When you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars, losing a couple mil to make a problem go away is probably not a bad trade. It's not an admission of guilt, because it's the equivalent of you or me settling a lawsuit for $600. Fine, just make it go away
 
C

Camper Van Beethoven

Banned
Elfforkusu said:
MJ's specific guilt or innocence aside, I don't think this logic holds up to scrutiny.

When you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars, losing a couple mil to make a problem go away is probably not a bad trade. It's not an admission of guilt, because it's the equivalent of you or me settling a lawsuit for $600. Fine, just make it go away
Click to expand...

When people make the argument “there was no evidence! He couldn’t have lost the trial” that’s instantly undermined by him paying out millions to avoid a fair trial.

if any other guy in the world who didn’t have childhood nostalgia for these defenders did this nobody would be making long winded defences of him. There’s absolutely no logical reason to think Jackson was innocent. I’ve seen these Jackson fans for years try to pull this shit.

If a politician was accused by multiple women of rape people wouldn’t just assume he was innocent because he paid them off. Apparently Michael Jackson and children are just fine though.
 
M

MANUELF

Banned
Camper Van Beethoven said:
It’s really odd to me that some people willing choose to believe innocent people pay millions of dollars to people who accuse them of sexual assault and are innocent.

Unless you have some sort of secret proof that I don’t know about that he didn’t give millions of dollars to the family that accused him than I’m not terribly interested in any of your logic leaps. OJ Simpson is a free man. That doesn’t mean he didn’t do it.
Click to expand...

You can also use your logic to say his accusers were only on it for the money, what parents of a molested children would settle for money instead of putting the criminal behind bars? See?
 
C

Camper Van Beethoven

Banned
MANUELF said:
You can also use your logic to say his accusers were only on it for the money, what parents of a molested children would settle for money instead of putting the criminal behind bars? See?
Click to expand...

Plenty of them I imagine. Especially when they know how hard it is to win cases like that.

Of course his accusers could only be in it for the money. But there’s lots and lots of famous musicians who have money and haven’t openly invited children to their bedroom then been accused of sexual assault.
 
M

MANUELF

Banned
Camper Van Beethoven said:
Plenty of them I imagine. Especially when they know how hard it is to win cases like that.

Of course his accusers could only be in it for the money. But there’s lots and lots of famous musicians who have money and haven’t openly invited children to their bedroom then been accused of sexual assault.
Click to expand...

So if you can see that then why cant you see an innocent person setling things out of court?
 
A

Ash Sparrow

Banned
The people I know who sat in on the MJ court case with the Arivisos were saying how absurd the family was, that the jurors had a hard time keeping a straight face at their tall tales. So many obvious lies. So much absurdity, like the mother in the case married a guy named Jackson, so her name eventually became Janet Jackson. Their idea of being kidnapped was trips to Toys R Us and Spa treatments, where they never asked to use a phone to say they were kidnapped. LOL They said there were no phones or clocks at Neverland, when there were tons of clocks at NL, including the big one that sat right outside the house.
 
R

Robso

Member
Ash Sparrow said:
The people I know who sat in on the MJ court case with the Arivisos were saying how absurd the family was, that the jurors had a hard time keeping a straight face at their tall tales. So many obvious lies. So much absurdity, like the mother in the case married a guy named Jackson, so her name eventually became Janet Jackson. Their idea of being kidnapped was trips to Toys R Us and Spa treatments, where they never asked to use a phone to say they were kidnapped. LOL They said there were no phones or clocks at Neverland, when there were tons of clocks at NL, including the big one that sat right outside the house.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was probably the most ridiculous trial a celebrity has ever endured. The media never told what actually happened in the court room. The supposed imprisonment at Neverland, yet the Mother was out getting spa treatments and buying clothing on MJ's credit card. During this miraculous escape she decided to tell nobody her children were being held there against their will.

Her sons (Gavin and Star) were made out to be saints, when in actual fact they were anything but. Even trying to get one of MJ's cousins to take her shirt off and when she wouldn't they called her a 'pussy'.

It's no coincidence that they told police and child services nothing happened. However, when it came time for them to leave, as MJ wasn't going to fund everything for them anymore, the story suddenly changed. Then it changed again and again. At the Grand Jury hearing both brothers claimed they'd been abused. Fast forward to the trial and all of a sudden only one (Gavin) had been.

Also, the infamous claim by the Mother, that MJ told them he'd put her and the family in a hot air balloon and let it float off.

It sums up the prosecution. They put on a trial containing known grifters ,who's story was ever changing, and a Mother who was mentally unstable. They had no evidence of anything so instead tried to put on the stand former disgruntled employees who had sued MJ, and lost.
 
R

Robso

Member
Camper Van Beethoven said:
Plenty of them I imagine. Especially when they know how hard it is to win cases like that.

Of course his accusers could only be in it for the money. But there's lots and lots of famous musicians who have money and haven't openly invited children to their bedroom then been accused of sexual assault.
Click to expand...

Once again showing your ignorance. The family in 1993 deemed their case to be damning. They were scared of a criminal trial, which puts a criminal behind bars. However, they weren't scared of trying to win money in a civil trial.

It's a known fact the accusers have been in it for the money. Yet again, you don't have a clue.

Tell me, when you demand $20 million from MJ, rather than go to the police, how is it not for money?

How, when police are investigating, you decide to file a civil suit wanting $30 million, is it not for money?

Why are you absolutely shitting yourself at the prospect of a criminal trial coming before a civil one, if you're not after money?

Why say 'Fields and Pellicano already knew Evan was willing to negotiate. Why not pay him off and nip the nightmare in the bud while you've got the opportunity?' if you're not after money?

Why file ANOTHER lawsuit against, not only MJ but also Lisa Marie, ABC and Sony wanting to make a music album about your son's abuse, entitled 'EVANStory' (a play on the title of MJ's album HIStory) and want $60 million, if you're not after money?

About the 2005 case. The family first went to a civil lawyer before police.

Also a former class mate of his: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXSiXKuMAAE
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
Story time.

Maybe about four years ago, I was working at a call center that helped with wedding registries. I got a call from someone who upset that his name showed up through a Google search, which is what would happen if you made a public registry.

He was a nice enough guy but he had mentioned to me that he was once involved in a "high profile" court case and didn't want people finding his wedding registry if they were also searching for his name. He implied that both him and his fiancee were already being harassed over it. I told him I would need to Google it so that our IT department could contact Google and see if they could remove that link from the search results and asked if that was okay.

Turns out he was the kid at the center of the 2005 Michael Jackson trial. He said it was okay for me to look it up and then proceeded to tell me what I would find and went on a short rant where he was saying stuff like, "It's hard to escape that. My parents were basically using me. It's all behind me now and I don't want my fiancee having to deal with it."

Incredibly awkward, but again, nice enough guy. And that was basically the end of the conversation. But yeah, that'll stick with me.
 
Thaedolus

Thaedolus

Gold Member
ZeoVGM said:
Story time.

Maybe about four years ago, I was working at a call center that helped with wedding registries. I got a call from someone who upset that his name showed up through a Google search, which is what would happen if you made a public registry.

He was a nice enough guy but he had mentioned to me that he was once involved in a "high profile" court case and didn't want people finding his wedding registry if they were also searching for his name. He implied that both him and his fiancee were already being harassed over it. I told him I would need to Google it so that our IT department could contact Google and see if they could remove that link from the search results and asked if that was okay.

Turns out he was the kid at the center of the 2005 Michael Jackson trial. He said it was okay for me to look it up and then proceeded to tell me what I would find and went on a short rant where he was saying stuff like, "It's hard to escape that. My parents were basically using me. It's all behind me now and I don't want my fiancee having to deal with it."

Incredibly awkward, but again, nice enough guy. And that was basically the end of the conversation. But yeah, that'll stick with me.
Click to expand...

I worked at a call center after MJ died. Comcast. I once got a phone call from a disgruntled customer about how much coverage the death was getting. CNN, NBC, FNC...enough already!

...I'm glad that call center job didn't make me kill myself as it seemed like it would have had I not left it soon after...
 
R

Robso

Member
ZeoVGM said:
Story time.

Maybe about four years ago, I was working at a call center that helped with wedding registries. I got a call from someone who upset that his name showed up through a Google search, which is what would happen if you made a public registry.

He was a nice enough guy but he had mentioned to me that he was once involved in a "high profile" court case and didn't want people finding his wedding registry if they were also searching for his name. He implied that both him and his fiancee were already being harassed over it. I told him I would need to Google it so that our IT department could contact Google and see if they could remove that link from the search results and asked if that was okay.

Turns out he was the kid at the center of the 2005 Michael Jackson trial. He said it was okay for me to look it up and then proceeded to tell me what I would find and went on a short rant where he was saying stuff like, "It's hard to escape that. My parents were basically using me. It's all behind me now and I don't want my fiancee having to deal with it."

Incredibly awkward, but again, nice enough guy. And that was basically the end of the conversation. But yeah, that'll stick with me.
Click to expand...

Interesting story. Thanks for sharing. The whole 'using me' ties in with what he said to his class mate in the video I posted above.

Ironically, the DJ played The Way You Make Me Feel at his wedding and he smiled and shrugged his shoulders.
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
Thaedolus said:
I worked at a call center after MJ died. Comcast. I once got a phone call from a disgruntled customer about how much coverage the death was getting. CNN, NBC, FNC...enough already!

...I'm glad that call center job didn't make me kill myself as it seemed like it would have had I not left it soon after...
Click to expand...

H... how would anyone think that was Comcast's fault?
 
R

Rock And Roll

Member
It's funny, with the internet now people could easily research the Jackson trial for 10 minutes and change their view from "he's a pedophile" to "that trial is bullshit". I guess it's easier for some to just continue spouting 20 year old tabloid nonsense.
 
E

EBreda

Member
I do think MJ was the biggest celebrity that ever lived. I miss him a lot: love his songs, was excited for the O2 concerts and was my #1 dream seeing him live once in my lifetime.

"This is It" movie made a billion times sadder. I mean, the amount of heart he was pouring into the gig, his dance moves, his voice was sounding great, production sure would be superb and finally we would have a true high resolution record of his legendary performance... But it was not to be, sadly.

His late album was very good as well. I still hope we get to see some more unpublished material down the line somehow.

Hope you're happy somewhere, MJ, people on this Earth sure wanted to give you hell despite all your efforts to make it a better place for you and for me.

8 years... Damn...
 
A

Ash Sparrow

Banned
Robso said:
Yes, it was probably the most ridiculous trial a celebrity has ever endured. The media never told what actually happened in the court room. The supposed imprisonment at Neverland, yet the Mother was out getting spa treatments and buying clothing on MJ's credit card. During this miraculous escape she decided to tell nobody her children were being held there against their will.

Her sons (Gavin and Star) were made out to be saints, when in actual fact they were anything but. Even trying to get one of MJ's cousins to take her shirt off and when she wouldn't they called her a 'pussy'.

It's no coincidence that they told police and child services nothing happened. However, when it came time for them to leave, as MJ wasn't going to fund everything for them anymore, the story suddenly changed. Then it changed again and again. At the Grand Jury hearing both brothers claimed they'd been abused. Fast forward to the trial and all of a sudden only one (Gavin) had been.

Also, the infamous claim by the Mother, that MJ told them he'd put her and the family in a hot air balloon and let it float off.

It sums up the prosecution. They put on a trial containing known grifters ,who's story was ever changing, and a Mother who was mentally unstable. They had no evidence of anything so instead tried to put on the stand former disgruntled employees who had sued MJ, and lost.
Click to expand...
Yeah and the more you know about the case the crazier it gets. Those kids seemed like terrors, wreaking golf carts, throwing things at the animals from rides, annoying the staff. MJ was genuinely trying to help these people who wormed their way into his life, they were the ones constantly calling him, claiming the kid was sick through the Laugh Factory. I just wish MJ had listened to Chris Tucker when he was trying to tell him these people weren't right.
 
M

MosquitoSmasher

Member
Wittyfeed usually is pretty BS, right?

Because yesterday I received a link from a friend and basically it said MJ had written letters and mails about being afraid of his life, about being murdered and this was very close to the O2 shows. This isn't the first time I read this though. Shortly after his death there were "friends" of his that claimed similar things. Phone calls from him about how "they" were trying to murder him. There are also clips of this on YouTube but I doubt they are legit.

Anyway The article claims that an investigation will start now on these letters. But no matter what comes from this, it won't bring the good man back and he'll forever be missed as far as I'm concerned and I sure don't care what some people out there still believe. I can only tell them to go do their own research.

But let's be positive.... did anyone see that Chris Tucker show where he jokes about MJ in a good way? He talks about him and MJ visiting Barry Gibb I believe and how MJ behaved. It was some really funny shit.
 
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