LiveFromKyoto said:

I don't know why this is the forgotten masterpiece but it's PAUL FREAKING POPE DOING BATMAN. It's freaking amazing, it absolutely belongs in the canon.

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Damn! My library doesn't carry it.

Timo said:

Good to see the last post was the most successful. He also did short Batman story in his Solo issue for DC, check it out.

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Good to see someone else with taste! If you mean the Batman of Nazi Germany story, it's reprinted in the back of the current edition.

Ponn01 said:

Read that mini series Batman Arkham, came out about a year ago I think.

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It's not even in that (although it's a pretty decent story). The Black Mask's ID isn't revealed until the end of Tony Daniel's (terrible) first arc on Batman. No idea what it's called in trade form but for the love of god avoid anything written by Tony Daniel. It's C-Tier at best. Spoilers for the ending of it, but if you care the Black Mask is . It was an ending I should have seen coming but still left me going "What??" in the worst way.

The Black Glove/Dr Hurt on the other hand is fucking amazing. Seriously, when you've finished it come back here and I'll go through the very cool bits of continuity it drags up and plays with.

Also another vote here for Seven Soldiers, it's an incredibly complex and rewarding work. One thing I love about it is how it takes a piece of Irish folklore, the Sidhe or fairyfolk and turns them into time travelling comic book villains, she Sheeda. So fucking cool. High points include 4 issues of Klarion by Frazer Irving and Doug Mankhe's Frankenstein. It's great.

So I finished Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader this morning -- such a fun read! If y'all haven't had a chance to read it, I highly recommend it. I love the tongue-in-cheek nature of it. Hell, check it out just for Alfred's story of how Batman died!

BTW: I wanted to ask if a few books are worth reading.

1) Batman Cacophony -- Kevin Smith is so hit or miss, but it's pretty short, so I figure it can't hurt to check it out

2) Batman: No Man's Land -- I'm not too privy of all the details of the story, but my library carries it (and it's rather long), so I was wondering if it's even worth taking the effort to read.

Oh, and I started Batman and Robin: Batman Reborn today and it's already waaaaay better than Batman and Son, Black Glove, and RIP. But that's probably because I adore Frank Quitely's art!

Dork Knight said:

So I finished Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader this morning -- such a fun read! If y'all haven't had a chance to read it, I highly recommend it. I love the tongue-in-cheek nature of it. Hell, check it out just for Alfred's story of how Batman died!

BTW: I wanted to ask if a few books are worth reading.

1) Batman Cacophony -- Kevin Smith is so hit or miss, but it's pretty short, so I figure it can't hurt to check it out

2) Batman: No Man's Land -- I'm not too privy of all the details of the story, but my library carries it (and it's rather long), so I was wondering if it's even worth taking the effort to read.

Oh, and I started Batman and Robin: Batman Reborn today and it's already waaaaay better than Batman and Son, Black Glove, and RIP. But that's probably because I adore Frank Quitely's art!

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1) Cacophany is pretty good IMO. A disclaimer though - I like Kevin Smith, and every character is written at least a little 'off voice' or out of character. Get over that and it's actually an enjoyable read. The sequel Widening Gyre is also a fun read. Many people absolutely hate it though so YMMV.

2) NML is one of the all-time classic runs on any book, definitely read it at your first opportunity. It's a crossover where DC experimented with writers and artists for the first time in years and the upshot of this is that you get some awesome work. Greg Rucka, Alex Maleev, Ian Edgington and D'Israeli... it's damn good stuff.

And yeah, Quitely's work on B&R is so cool! The second issue especially is so much fun, I love how Damian is this little pint sized psychopath, he's so cool but he still has this tiny hint of vulnerability. Also, I love how Quitely draws Dick Grayson in the Batsuit, it's totally a different man inside the cowl.

Jedeye Sniv said:

It's not even in that (although it's a pretty decent story). The Black Mask's ID isn't revealed until the end of Tony Daniel's (terrible) first arc on Batman. No idea what it's called in trade form but for the love of god avoid anything written by Tony Daniel. It's C-Tier at best. Spoilers for the ending of it, but if you care the Black Mask is

Spoiler

Jeremiah Arkham

. It was an ending I should have seen coming but still left me going "What??" in the worst way.

The Black Glove/Dr Hurt on the other hand is fucking amazing. Seriously, when you've finished it come back here and I'll go through the very cool bits of continuity it drags up and plays with.

Also another vote here for Seven Soldiers, it's an incredibly complex and rewarding work. One thing I love about it is how it takes a piece of Irish folklore, the Sidhe or fairyfolk and turns them into time travelling comic book villains, she Sheeda. So fucking cool. High points include 4 issues of Klarion by Frazer Irving and Doug Mankhe's Frankenstein. It's great.

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A question about Black Glove

Lonestar said:

A question about Black Glove

Spoiler

Trying to comprehend who he really is. Is he an ancestor in the Wayne Family that has extended his life with the strange sacrifices? And I'm assuming the last we've seen of him was him being buried by the Joker?

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Jedeye Sniv said:

1) Cacophany is pretty good IMO. A disclaimer though - I like Kevin Smith, and every character is written at least a little 'off voice' or out of character. Get over that and it's actually an enjoyable read. The sequel Widening Gyre is also a fun read. Many people absolutely hate it though so YMMV.

2) NML is one of the all-time classic runs on any book, definitely read it at your first opportunity. It's a crossover where DC experimented with writers and artists for the first time in years and the upshot of this is that you get some awesome work. Greg Rucka, Alex Maleev, Ian Edgington and D'Israeli... it's damn good stuff.

And yeah, Quitely's work on B&R is so cool! The second issue especially is so much fun, I love how Damian is this little pint sized psychopath, he's so cool but he still has this tiny hint of vulnerability. Also, I love how Quitely draws Dick Grayson in the Batsuit, it's totally a different man inside the cowl.

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Cool! Yeah, I figured I check out Cacophany just because I want to see what it's like to have Kevin Smith write a Batman comic. My library doesn't carry the sequel, though. Oh well!

Glad to hear NML is good, too. It's kinda long, so I just wanted to make sure it's worth my time.

Yeah, and Quitely's art is so badass. I love how it's colorful, yet still dark (if that makes sense). It seems most Batman comics are *too* dark...but Quitely manages to find a good balance.

Zabka said:

Spoiler

Yes. He's Thomas Wayne from 1765, who during a ritual made a deal / bonded with the Hyper Adapter that Darkseid unleashed to torment Batman.

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Lonestar said:

Spoiler

Yes, I saw the talk about Hyper Adapters, but I gotta be honest, I don't understand the premise behind this. Was this tied into what Superman and others were going on about, of Batman being some kind of weapon that would destroy the world if he made it back to "the present."

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Lonestar said:

Spoiler

Yes, I saw the talk about Hyper Adapters, but I gotta be honest, I don't understand the premise behind this. Was this tied into what Superman and others were going on about, of Batman being some kind of weapon that would destroy the world if he made it back to "the present."

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Ordered:

Hush
Joker
Batman: Year 1

And put Batman Year 100 on my wishlist for later

Gattsu25 said:

Ordered:

Hush
Joker
Batman: Year 1

And put Batman Year 100 on my wishlist for later

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Personally, I would have tried to check out (or borrow) Joker. It's not bad or anything, but I definitely wouldn't want to own it.

Year One is fantastic, though!

Also checkout Long Halloween -- it happens shortly after Year One. Great story.

Some people dont like it but I enjoyed it.

So the ones with Nightwing as batman and Damien Wayne as robin are highly recommended?

I'll have to pick those up.

Router said:

So the ones with Nightwing as batman and Damien Wayne as robin are highly recommended?

I'll have to pick those up.

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I just started the first book today and so far it's totally badass! Highly recommended. I'm sure others in this thread can explain more.

Router said:

So the ones with Nightwing as batman and Damien Wayne as robin are highly recommended?

I'll have to pick those up.

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Yeah, as I said in this thread, I've been reading Batman for nearly 20 years now and Batman and Robin is the very best Batman comics ever published IMO. The catch is that they're the second part in a longer story, it's a bit like picking up the Two Towers and expecting a good Lord of the Rings story - yeah it's great but you've missed the setup and lots of things will happen that make no sense. Look back a page or two and you'll find the reading list for Morrison's run in trade form. Start at the beginning, work your way through. I just finished reading the entire run again last night and it's a brilliant piece of work.

This thread has also inspired me to dig out Batman: Snow from my boxes and having a flick through the art is so damn gorgeous. It's by Seth Fisher who tragically died shortly after finishing it and has one of the most unique styles I've seen in a Batman book, it's got this almost french, Herge-esque style to it mixed with a dash of 60's pop-art, it's so great. Also written by Dan Curtis Johnson and JH Williams which surprised me a lot, didn't realise he used to write stuff. I haven't read it for 5 years and can't remember a thing about it so I'm looking forward to getting stuck in.

VAIL said:

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Good man. Fantastic crossover. Judge Dredd is a terrific counter to Batman in this one. Brilliant artwork, too.

Dork Knight said:

I just started the first book today and so far it's totally badass! Highly recommended. I'm sure others in this thread can explain more.

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Jedeye Sniv said:

Yeah, as I said in this thread, I've been reading Batman for nearly 20 years now and Batman and Robin is the very best Batman comics ever published IMO. The catch is that they're the second part in a longer story, it's a bit like picking up the Two Towers and expecting a good Lord of the Rings story - yeah it's great but you've missed the setup and lots of things will happen that make no sense. Look back a page or two and you'll find the reading list for Morrison's run in trade form. Start at the beginning, work your way through. I just finished reading the entire run again last night and it's a brilliant piece of work.

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Thanks guys, I'll try to pick them up today. I have been avoiding Superhero titles for a while now (no real reason just enjoying the non superhero titles). The last Batman book I got was Gotham Central and my other reads are along the lines of Walking Dead and D.M.Z. I need to get back into Superhero tiles. This Batman arc sounds great.

I have read most of the older books mentioned in here. Any newer ones I should be looking out for?

Frackh said:

I would also recommend Gotham by Gaslight. I thought that was a great book.

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This was really good. Read it as a kid. Probably still holds up.

So I've never read any Batman and I found this list of essentials and the order to read them in:
1 - Year One
2 - Batman and the Monster Men
3 - Batman and the Mad Monk
4 - The Man Who Laughs
5 - Batman - Gothic
6 - Batman - The Long Halloween
7 - Catwoman - When in Rome
8 - Batman - Haunted Knight
9 - Batman - Dark Victory
10 - Batman Chronicles - The Gauntlet
11 - Robin Year One
12 - Batgirl Year One
13 - Batman - Tales Of The Demon
14 - Batman - A Death In The Family
15 - Batman - The Killing Joke
16 - Batman - Arkham Assylum
17 - Batman - Son Of The Demon
18 - Batman - Bride Of The Demon
19 - Batman - Birth Of The Demon
20 - Batman - Black And White
21 - Hush
22 - Under The Hood
23 - Gotham Central
24 - Batman - Detective
25 - Batman And Son
26 - Death And The City
27 - The Black Glove
28 - Private Casebook
29 - Heart of Hush
30 - Batman RIP
31 - Final Crisis
32 - Whatever Happened To The Masked Crusader
33 - Elegy
34 - Batman And Robin - Batman Reborn
35 - Red Robin - The Grail
36 - Batgirl Rising
37 - Batman And Robin - Blackest Knight
38 - Red Robin - Collision
39 - Batman And Robin - Batman vs. Robin

Would any of you guys comment on them, whether everything is worth my time and all?

Shame on you for your lack of knightfall.

What I've read off that list ranges from good to awesome. That list plus the knightfall books is a pretty damn thorough batman experience. word of warning:final crisis is only on there to give the end of RIP some context so you dont wonder why reality fell apart and shit came out of nowhere during the final two chapters that are in RIP but arent actually the main story

If you wanted the bare minimum for cost concerns i guess it would go something like year one, man who laughs, long halloween, dark victory, death in the family, killing joke, arkham asylum, son of the demon, knightfall, maaaaybe hush, under the hood, then the grant morrison books, which go best as one story. even though it's like 6 books.

Well, I've read pretty much everything on that list and I can vouch for the quality, but as to whether you'd want to read all those books is another matter... you can probably skip all the 'Demon' books, they're not particularly essential. Really, you're best off picking the high points and going with them, going back later to fill in the gaps with some of the less essential stories.

If you're interested I wrote the following spiel last year, it gives a rundown of what I consider to be the essential Batman 'canon':

Batman Year One - it's a bona-fide classic - brilliant art, great story and it defined the style of Batman comics right up to the present day. An essential read, so many books reference it.
Batman: The Man Who Laughs - this is set right after year one from what Gordon says on the first few pages and is the origin of the Joker. A good read, not essential though.
Long Halloween
Dark Victory
Catwoman: When in Rome - enough has been written about these two books but suffice to say they are entertaining who-dunnits and are a fun read. The first two are direct sequels, Catwoman (I think) fills in a bit from Dark Victory.
Legends of the Dark Knight #100 - this is probably hard to find, but it is a really good origin for Dick Grayson, probably better than what's in Dark Victory, and it completely retcons Year Three out, Zucco is a fat old man rather than a skinny redhead. Nice artwork, it was an early experiment in digital inking. Not sure if this has ever been collected.
Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet - this was a one-shot prestige format special about Robin's first test from Batman. It came out before Dark Victory if I remember correctly, but is set afterwards
Robin Year One
Batgirl Year One - both by Chuck Dixon and they form a loose little series between them. Light and fun, fairly classic Bat-family tales.
Nightwing Year One - should be collected in a trade, was originally in Nightwing #101-107 I think. Some dodgy artwork by Scott McDaniel, but Chuck Dixon again continuing his mapping out of the Bat-family history. A great little read that covers Dick leaving Batman and becoming his own man, along with bits and pieces of his relationship with Babs, which is pretty much the defining point of the two characters.
*Unfortunately the Jason Todd era isn't collected or re-made very well at all which is a real shame, as a talented writer could do some awesome stuff with the character if they wanted. Legends #100 has a neat little JT story in it though. Jason appeared pre-Crisis and Year One as a virtual clone of Dick Grayson, a circus kid whose parents are murdered (by Killer Croc of all people). In fact, Morrison nodded to this in RIP where you can see Jason's pre-Crisis costume in one of Bruce's hallucinations, I nearly wet myself it was so geeky. The Pre Crisis origin was in Detective comics #527 (I think. I know it was one of the anniversary issues, it might have been #427). Jason's Post-Crisis and year one origin came in Batman #408 the first post-Year One issue of Batman (which I have in front of me), called 'DID ROBIN DIE TONIGHT?' (lol). In it Dick is shot by Joker and Batman retires him. Later in the issue Jason steals the wheels off the Batmobile and the rest, as they say, is history. Jason's run is very short, A Death in the family is around issue 426 I think.
Killing Joke - Alan Moore and the definitive Joker story. Astounding artwork that has recently been re-coloured by Bolland.
A Death in the Family (bye bye Jason)
Batman #450 and #451 - a great 2 part epilogue to the Babs and Jason story. Batman is going mental, Joker is all fucked up from being blown up and is hearing voices. All setting up...
A Lonely Place of dying (hello Tim)
After A lonely place of dying the collections dry up around Tim's intro which is a real shame as the stories are pretty good. Starting with #455 Tim is hanging around the Batcave in training and his first case is saving Batman and Vicki Vale from the Scarecrow. Shortly afterwards he gets the costume and is shunted off into the first Robin miniseries where he goes off to France and meets King Snake and Lynx, two of his early nemesis' (nemesii?). Dixon later follows this story up with a three part crossover in Batman and Tec starting in Batman #467.
Shortly later Knightfall kicks off properly around #486 where Batman is starts to be rundown by his enemies. I really love the whole Knightfall/quest/end era, it's some really mental 90's silliness, but it's a pretty good story, at least as good as the death of superman.
The way it's collected is an abomination though, as a whole third of the story is missing with the Knightquest line, where you have Jean Paul Valley going nuts as Batman (including a great Joker tale) and Bruce is globetrotting with Alfie to find his magic doctor. You get a decent story with Knightfall and Knightsend but IMO Knightquest is the meat of the story, the Az-Bats stories are really really good examples of 90's comics.
After KnightsEnd we have a couple years of really classic Batman stories in Detective comics (never collected, with some awesome Graham Nolan artwork) before we enter the era of the crossover for reals.
Contagion - brilliant. Gotham catches Ebola. Some really great art in this - Tommy Lee Edwards, Graham Nolan, Kelly Jones...
Legacy - less brilliant. A quick and dirty sequel to Contagion. Pretty by the numbers and dull IMO.
Cataclysm - fairly shit. See the same Earthquake from 5 different angles before a no-name villian turns up. Yawn.
Aftershocks - really shit
No Mans Land - fucking brilliant, the best. A 52 part mega story where Gotham is seperated from the rest of the US. A defining run, it gave us Bob Gale, Greg Rucka and Alex Maleev. Ambitious, exciting and perfectly exectued.
Then we enter the 'modern' era just about, with Greg Rucka's awesome run on 'Tec (which he's still riffing on today, love this man's story arcs). In this run Rucka introduces Sasha Bordeaux as Bruce's bodyguard who discovers his secrets. They briefly become lovers before Officer Down, Bruce Wayne: Murderer and Fugitive kicks in. Officer Down is pretty good, Gordon is shot and forced to retire (something that Rucka and Brubaker pick up in the excellent Gotham Central). Murderer and Fugitive is an OK story, it runs a little long but is basically a decent epilogue to No Man's Land.
Next up is Hush, great art shite story IMO. Well worth it for Jim Lee though.
Under the Hood is fairly entertaining but ran far far too long. Jason Todd returns from the death and... that's pretty much it. A lot of great story opportunities squandered and Jason Todd got caught up in some really terrible stories. If you want this story, I suggest watching the DC animated movie of the same title - it's great and you get pretty much the same story.
Then there's War Games which is pretty much the worst run on any Batman book I can remember, so so bad. I blame Bill Willingham, the man cannot write Batman for beans IMO.
All of which leads up to the One Year Later story by James Robinson after Infinite Crisis and then Grant Morrison's spectacular run on the book till this day. I really can't say enough good things about Morrison's run. I've been reading Batman solidly for 20 years, this is the best it's ever been, hands down. You can find the reading list on page 2 of this thread. Skip Crisis, it's not a Batman story. Get the Black Casebook stuff if you want to, it's got some fun 60's stories in it that Morrison references heavily but are not essential to read.
Over on Detective Paul Dini was playing with Hush in his Heart of Hush story. If you loved Hush then you might like this, otherwise it's OK but not near the level of Morrison's Batman work. I think that Dini's run has gone off the edge of a cliff though, he's become obsessed with Hush and has become very boring because of it. I'm going to ignore Leiberman's run on Gotham Knights entirely, that was awful, some 20 issues of Hush running round like a total tit and it ends on a cliffhanger that is never resolved thanks to the One Year Later gimmick. Honestly, other than Jeph Loeb's original Hush run you are best off avoiding him in all later appearances. He's just Bane for the 2000's.
Batwoman - Elegy is stunning for the artwork but picks up on threads that Rucka had been sowing for years in Detective Comics, 52, The Crime Bible and Final Crisis: Revelations. As such I think it's a great story but some readers may be left a little cold by come characters that aren't particularly well explained.
Red Robin is really good comics but isn't particularly 'important' like the other books on the list. That said I am really enjoying it. Same for Batgirl. Above average but not Earth shattering.

Any questions just ask

so thanks to the groupn deal i ordered the following graphic novels
Batman: The Long Halloween
Batman: The Killing Joke
The Dark Knight Returns
Batman: Dark Victory

why didnt i get year one? i thought i added it to my order but i only noticed it wasnt there after i went through with my order =(

anyone know a cheap place to get a copy? cheapest ive seen is around $9 on amazon and barnes and noble gah damn me not payin attention to the order!

So I haven't read any of the Batman comics since No Man's Land and I really wanna read some good Batman but not 5315531511435564 pages worth of the comic. So the stories that I can think of are Under the Hood, Hush, R.I.P., Battle for the Cowl, Batman and Robin, Return of Bruce Wayne, and Incorporated. Am I forgetting any major ones and are there any stories I should read before I get into them? Also I have no clue about the order so some help there would be nice.

There are more Morrison trades besides those posted above aren't there? Theres Return of Bruce Wayne, Resurection of Ra's Al Ghul, and Time & the bat I think its called.

Oh and Final Crisis is NOT mandatory reading if you want to read modern batman comics. Its really wierd and deals with heavy duty DC continuity. New comers and casual fans will hate it most likely. Batman is only in like 2 scenes anyway. Your better off just reading the wiki about it.

I must be on the few individuals who suggests to skip anything batman related concerning Jeph Loeb. They are pretty stupid. Ass-pull mystery, shoehorning as many villains as possible, and Batman being an idiot. Though on the other hand, if you are new to comics you might not notice how stupid it is.

Oh the other hand I suggest anything written by Grant Morrison. That includes his incredible JLA run, where Batman shines. In fact read that JLA run even if you are not interested in Batman. My favorite run of anything ever. Got me into comics.

Batman: Venom

Batman: Manbat

Batman: Shaman (I think)

The Ted McKeever Batman stories.

All I can remember from my short stint in comics, but I loved them.

Anticitizen One said:

There are more Morrison trades besides those posted above aren't there? Theres Return of Bruce Wayne, Resurection of Ra's Al Ghul, and Time & the bat I think its called.

Oh and Final Crisis is NOT mandatory reading if you want to read modern batman comics. Its really wierd and deals with heavy duty DC continuity. New comers and casual fans will hate it most likely. Batman is only in like 2 scenes anyway. Your better off just reading the wiki about it.

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Yeah, Return is essential, Resurrection is fairly unessential other than some references to Thogal and Time and the Bat is fairly good if the solicit is to be believed. It contains #700 of Batman which is a good story in itself plus 701 and 702 which are 'missing chapters' of RIP. Or in other words it's the connective material between RIP and RoBW for those readers not smart enough to join up the dots. Fairly entertaining though. Apparently it also contains Batman - The Return which in typical DC style is completely out of order in this trade. Basically, 700 - 702 should be read before and during RoBW, and then the Return is to be read after. DC have seriously mangled the fuck out of this story, I feel a bit sorry for anyone reading in trades tbh.

Just read Brian Azzarello's "Joker". That was really good. The ending was fantastic and had an all-time great Batman line.