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Astery · Jun 27, 2011

I'll answer in parts instead of just giving 1 answer.

1st, does Aliens exist?
Sure, 1 way or another, not necessary the stereo looking types er are familiar with from the media, but it's still a possibility actually.

2nd, Do Aliens know of existence of Earth? and Humans to that extent?
Depends on their technology and other shit really. There's no answer that can be sure here. They might have known of Earth as a planet just like others.

3rd, Have they visited Earth?
Some may argue with me but I think we have had enough evidence that they already did. Just for an example is the 1952 Washington incident out of many others. The governments will of course seal them out with other explanations, but they're just really making the public not to freak out. In fact, I believe with the numbers of fake reports/ CG and government denial it's now becoming to a point where when a real incident happens, people will still immediately shrug it off claiming it as fake.

Finally, for people claiming there's 100% no any other life forms out there in the massive universe, I don't know why you think like that. We haven't find significant life forms out there yet doesn't seem fair to proof you're right.

ps. I have never saw them myself but I've seen a ghost/ spirit whatever it actually is once in my home when I was small. Same as the UFO reports, people don't really believe it, or tries to give some scientific explanation to it like window's reflection or something which just won't make it explainable as I know about my home better for living in there for years of course.

Lance Bone Path · Jun 27, 2011

rayner said:
One thing that many people ignore in interstellar travel is Length contraction which leads to Time Dialation. A species which can travel near light-speed would see little time pass relative to say it's home planet. It would lead to interesting occurances with radio-transmissions to it's home base. One of my professors gave this interesting problem on a midterm...

A Female Astronaut just left on a mission and left her husband behind for the upcoming journey to Alpha Centuri, they had a passionate night and conceived a child. Traveling at V = XX.XX% the speed of light when will the father be notified via radio transmission that he is a father ( 9 momth gestational period ) I can't remember the values he gave V but there were 3, and he even put a disclamier stating to disregard the lack of accomodations for a spacecraft to harbor an infant.

Humans have a short life-span compared to the time requirements for intersteallar travel. Other species may not and I believe they may have visited in the past, but during the past 20,000 years probably not.

Did you get a passing grade on that midterm?

I don't think that it's necessary to move at anywhere near the speed of light as any sort of requirement for interstellar travel.

orion434 · Jun 27, 2011

Lance Bone Path said:
Did you get a passing grade on that midterm?

I don't think that it's necessary to move at anywhere near the speed of light as any sort of requirement for interstellar travel.

I got an A- in that class, we also had to fit a 5M car into a 4M Garage via length contraction, some really funny stuff happens when you do the Lorentz Transformations. The 1/2 way mark for time dialation is 87% Light-speed ~ 2.6 x 10^8 m/s it would only take ~ 4 years for a round trip to Alphi Centuri... perhaps a 1/3 would suffice. With the way the world works now with instant gratification I don't believe as a species we can live with information coming on a yearly basis. If we set-up a colony around our closest neighbor it would take more than 8 years for a Q & A.

PflargBlarg · Jun 27, 2011

Astery said:
I'll answer in parts instead of just giving 1 answer.

1st, does Aliens exist?
Sure, 1 way or another, not necessary the stereo looking types er are familiar with from the media, but it's still a possibility actually.

2nd, Do Aliens know of existence of Earth? and Humans to that extent?
Depends on their technology and other shit really. There's no answer that can be sure here. They might have known of Earth as a planet just like others.

3rd, Have they visited Earth?
Some may argue with me but I think we have had enough evidence that they already did. Just for an example is the 1952 Washington incident out of many others. The governments will of course seal them out with other explanations, but they're just really making the public not to freak out. In fact, I believe with the numbers of fake reports/ CG and government denial it's now becoming to a point where when a real incident happens, people will still immediately shrug it off claiming it as fake.

Finally, for people claiming there's 100% no any other life forms out there in the massive universe, I don't know why you think like that. We haven't find significant life forms out there yet doesn't seem fair to proof you're right.

ps. I have never saw them myself but I've seen a ghost/ spirit whatever it actually is once in my home when I was small. Same as the UFO reports, people don't really believe it, or tries to give some scientific explanation to it like window's reflection or something which just won't make it explainable as I know about my home better for living in there for years of course.

The problem with this is that it leads to any response at all by the government concerning aliens seem like proof that they have visited. The crazies interpret like this:

"We can neither confirm nor deny..." ALIENS
No response at all. - ALIENS
"There is no evidence for aliens..." COVERUP, ALIENS

To these people, the lack of evidence somehow morphs itself into evidence for their side.

And no, you didn't see a ghost/spirit.

Valjean Lafitte · Jun 27, 2011

Okay skeptics, here's the thing: I believe in aliens. But I wish I didn't. I wish I couldn't. The idea that aliens visit us and that their existence is being covered up by government top brass scares the shit out of me. Yet I can't help but think it is arrogant to assume that every testimonial ever given by either civilians or military personnel is either a fabrication or has a natural, earthly explanation.

Wikipedia has only a short list of the many documented sightings, including only the more famous ones such as the mass sightings at Nuremberg and Fatima: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFO_sightings

And even if you can look past all the documented sightings and testimonials, what do you have to say about the appearance of out of place looking "aircraft" in so much of our ancient art:

Japanese painting from 1803

From Le Livre Des Bonnes Moeurs, by Jacques Legrand

From the 12th century French manuscript, Annales Laurissenses.

From the works of Admiral Blaeu in the literature Theatrum Orbis Terrarum.
This painting shows an encounter that happened when two Dutch ships sighted two disk shaped objects in the sky while traveling over the sea.

A French coin from 1680. The Latin allegedly translates to "It is here at an opportune time".

More can be found here, and here.

What are the odds that even in ancient times people were mistaking funny-looking clouds or astronomical objects for paranormal/extra-terrestrial activity? Tell me, please, because although I may be a believer...as fascinating as some of this crap is to me, I really don't want to believe in it. Fox Mulder I ain't.

Lance Bone Path · Jun 27, 2011

rayner said:
I got an A- in that class, we also had to fit a 5M car into a 4M Garage via length contraction, some really funny stuff happens when you do the Lorentz Transformations. The 1/2 way mark for time dialation is 87% Light-speed ~ 2.6 x 10^8 m/s it would only take ~ 4 years for a round trip to Alphi Centuri... perhaps a 1/3 would suffice. With the way the world works now with instant gratification I don't believe as a species we can live with information coming on a yearly basis. If we set-up a colony around our closest neighbor it would take more than 8 years for a Q & A.

I think the colonies would have to be set up with autonomous drones, given the distances involved. It's possible that we would rather destroy each other by fighting for the remaining resources left on Earth with that technology rather than use that technology to set up said colonies, however.

A colony would probably still be able to set up an archived version of the internet that's somewhat out of date. There will probably be a smaller scale internet for the colony which will be good enough.

Cujshi · Jun 27, 2011

Great Pyramid of Giza is the proof that SOMEONE other than known human civilization bulit them.

1. 2 million blocks, 4 to 50 tons.

2. used number Pi, 1000 years before greeks, 2000 years before practical use.

3. Pyramids are in perfect distance ratio as 3 stars from Orions Belt.

4. Great Pyramid is on one of the centers of land mass (5-6 in the world) that includes even the America continent, undiscovered till 1500's AD

5. Pyramid does not break the imagined base line for more than half of millimeter.

6. Mortar is yet unidentified even with today's chemistry knowledge

7. Pyramid has Anti Earthquake system, that was actually used in modern construction as a template.

8. coincidence or not - the opened Queen chamber has a temperature of 67 C - average temperature of all the world surface.

9. during the spring equinox, in 12 o clock there isnt ONE millimeter of shadow, due to the base/height ratio of Pyramid.

10. Pyramid is the only object oriented to the true north, till the 1800's AD.

11. Base of the pyramid is 365.24 Pyramid cubits long (egyptian measure ) which represents the EXACT number of days in one year - fact not known till thousands of years latter.

12. The only reason why there is no "silly" theory of how the Pyramid is built is because of the fact that the person who proposes it would be ridiculed. but the Science community is aware of the fact tht many things dont add up.

Fibonaci sequence Golden ratio, number Pi, astronomy, extensive knowledge of the world - all the fact that Egypt just didnt possess.

the current theory proposes that it was built in the timespawn of 20 years, with 80.000 workers doing with no breaks. with the egypt having only 350.000 men, and the fact that most of them had to bring food, and wars and such - it is highly improbable that they did it.

FUN FACT - the biggest Limestone Query in the world, belonging to the Indiana building union couldnt produce such number of rocks, and their chairman calculated that it would take them more than 10 years for building it, using heicopters, trucks, cars, roads, power tools, cranes, and such ...

we (humans, of known civilization) didnt build this shit.

CornBurrito · Jun 27, 2011

RockXLight said:
Okay skeptics, here's the thing: I believe in aliens. But I wish I didn't. I wish I couldn't. The idea that aliens visit us and that their existence is being covered up by government top brass scares the shit out of me. Yet I can't help but think it is arrogant to assume that every testimonial ever given by either civilians or military personnel is either a fabrication or has a natural, earthly explanation.

So do you also believe in ghosts?

StuBurns · Jun 27, 2011

So aliens who could travel the vast galaxy instead of giving people nice high tech buildings, decided to build them big triangles of rock?

Nop.

Furret · Jun 27, 2011

Cujshi said:
Great Pyramid of Giza is the proof that SOMEONE other than known human civilization bulit them.

1. 2 million blocks, 4 to 50 tons.

2. used number Pi, 1000 years before greeks, 2000 years before practical use.

3. Pyramids are in perfect distance ratio as 3 stars from Orions Belt.

4. Great Pyramid is on one of the centers of land mass (5-6 in the world) that includes even the America continent, undiscovered till 1500's AD

5. Pyramid does not break the imagined base line for more than half of millimeter.

6. Mortar is yet unidentified even with today's chemistry knowledge

7. Pyramid has Anti Earthquake system, that was actually used in modern construction as a template.

8. coincidence or not - the opened Queen chamber has a temperature of 67 C - average temperature of all the world surface.

9. during the spring equinox, in 12 o clock there isnt ONE millimeter of shadow, due to the base/height ratio of Pyramid.

10. Pyramid is the only object oriented to the true north, till the 1800's AD.

11. Base of the pyramid is 365.24 Pyramid cubits long (egyptian measure ) which represents the EXACT number of days in one year - fact not known till thousands of years latter.

12. The only reason why there is no "silly" theory of how the Pyramid is built is because of the fact that the person who proposes it would be ridiculed. but the Science community is aware of the fact tht many things dont add up.

Fibonaci sequence Golden ratio, number Pi, astronomy, extensive knowledge of the world - all the fact that Egypt just didnt possess.

the current theory proposes that it was built in the timespawn of 20 years, with 80.000 workers doing with no breaks. with the egypt having only 350.000 men, and the fact that most of them had to bring food, and wars and such - it is highly improbable that they did it.

FUN FACT - the biggest Limestone Query in the world, belonging to the Indiana building union couldnt produce such number of rocks, and their chairman calculated that it would take them more than 10 years for building it, using heicopters, trucks, cars, roads, power tools, cranes, and such ...

we (humans, of known civilization) didnt build this shit.

I don't think you know what that word means.

You'd be surprised to find out what you can get done with an entire country's worth of slaves.

nVidiot_Whore · Jun 27, 2011

Cujshi said:
FUN FACT

Ironic considering your lack of actual facts, backed up by actual scientific data in your post.

Many or most of what you posted doesn't stand up under a critical eye.

The pyramids are amazing.. as are other structures around the world.. we can't explain everything.. but doesn't mean you should take every Ancient Aliens specialists word for it.. most of what they are saying is actually old data anyways that has been debunked.

CornBurrito · Jun 27, 2011

Cujshi said:
Great Pyramid of Giza is the proof that SOMEONE other than known human civilization bulit them.

we (humans, of known civilization) didnt build this shit.

Do you actually view that as proof of alien visitation? I could just as easily put "GOD/ZEUS/LOKI DID IT" as a suitable explanation.

I also think you are vastly underestimating the intelligence level of past civilizations.

Astery · Jun 27, 2011

Wormdundee said:
The problem with this is that it leads to any response at all by the government concerning aliens seem like proof that they have visited. The crazies interpret like this:

"We can neither confirm nor deny..." ALIENS
No response at all. - ALIENS
"There is no evidence for aliens..." COVERUP, ALIENS

To these people, the lack of evidence somehow morphs itself into evidence for their side.

UFOs doesn't equal to aliens really. Most of the cases explanations of weather balloons or some other light bending theories may be correct, but some are just straight up lies with a straight face.

Wormdundee said:
And no, you didn't see a ghost/spirit.

Why are you so sure? well, as I said, it might not be ghost or spirit, but it's something weird, and there is no other suitable name for it.

Edit: Just did a quick search, I think it is appropriate to call it unidentified moving shadow.

HK-47 · Jun 27, 2011

Furret said:
I don't think you know what that word means.

You'd be surprised to find out what you can get done with an entire country's worth of slaves.

I thought most of the pyramid workforce was skilled laborers, architects and craftsmen.

EmCeeGramr · Jun 27, 2011

Look at all these depictions of UFOs in ancient art! (posts pictures of stylized depictions of the sun common in medieval art)

EmCeeGramr · Jun 27, 2011

Aliens to whom the passage of time means little or who possess faster-than-light technology came to Earth in the distant past.

Their first order of business was to build a big triangle out of rocks in the middle of the desert for dead people to be put in.

HK-47 · Jun 27, 2011

EmCeeGramr said:
Look at all these depictions of UFOs in ancient art! (posts pictures of stylized depictions of the sun common in medieval art)

Yo i aint never seen someone with a ring over their head. Must have been aliens!

TheNatural · Jun 27, 2011

I believe there are things not belonging to our government as we know it, flying around the air, and there's way too many legitimate reports from credible people out there to back it up if you spend even a little time researching it. People in military and pilots that aren't just seeing swamp gas or illusions, people with trained eyes who know what they're doing.

I hate to jump to say aliens, not because I don't think that's impossible or anything, but as soon as you say that people jump off and are ready to call you a wacko for just suggesting it. Let's make a foundation from point A to point B instead of going A to Z, and just establish there are things flying in the skies that aren't public transportation, and aren't of capabilities shown by documented military craft.

I've heard of Leslie Kean's book mentioned earlier, and I would like to read it, because she has that exact stance - doing investigational reporting on this, and not jumping from A to Z, but just establish it as a serious issue that isn't figments of thousands and thousands of people's imaginations.

HK-47 · Jun 27, 2011

TheNatural said:
I believe there are things not belonging to our government as we know it, flying around the air, and there's way too many legitimate reports from credible people out there to back it up if you spend even a little time researching it. People in military and pilots that aren't just seeing swamp gas or illusions, people with trained eyes who know what they're doing.

I hate to jump to say aliens, not because I don't think that's impossible or anything, but as soon as you say that people jump off and are ready to call you a wacko for just suggesting it. Let's make a foundation from point A to point B instead of going A to Z, and just establish there are things flying in the skies that aren't public transportation, and aren't of capabilities shown by documented military craft.

I've heard of Leslie Kean's book mentioned earlier, and I would like to read it, because she has that exact stance - doing investigational reporting on this, and not jumping from A to Z, but just establish it as a serious issue that isn't figments of thousands and thousands of people's imaginations.

You know what one of the most unreliable forms of evidence is? Eyewitness accounts.

Our perceptions arent that great. Simple optical illusions make the human brain crap itself.

nVidiot_Whore · Jun 27, 2011

EmCeeGramr said:
Look at all these depictions of UFOs in ancient art! (posts pictures of stylized depictions of the sun common in medieval art)

Dude.. they didn't have the sun back then.. or solar eclipses.. or the idea of a "halo" on people's heads.

So clearly all of that art is of space ships.. and ancient helmets and space suits.

LAUGHTREY · Jun 27, 2011

It would be like us visiting with ants.

DarkKyo · Jun 27, 2011

Anyone who thinks aliens have been here either don't know enough about space or have have huffed way too much paint in their lives.

nVidiot_Whore · Jun 27, 2011

TheNatural said:
I believe there are things not belonging to our government as we know it, flying around the air, and there's way too many legitimate reports from credible people out there to back it up if you spend even a little time researching it. People in military and pilots that aren't just seeing swamp gas or illusions, people with trained eyes who know what they're doing.

There are exponentially more pilots who claim to never have seen such things.. exponentially more people who've never seen anything "strange in the sky" than those that have.. not to mention the fact that nearly our entire planet is monitored by all types of electronic recording devices.. video.. audio.. radar, etc. Not to mention how many accounts match the science fiction works of the time period the accounts stem from...

And some of those "military pilots" who've seen things have turned out to be quite ridiculous story tellers.

You are welcome to "believe" what you want.. but I have done plenty of research.. and there is an overwhelming lack of real evidence.. and a large amount of fanatics who want so badly to believe things that they are well meaning but unreliable sources of information.

I just personally don't think it's logical to base a "belief" on such eye witness accounts.. is it possible? Sure.. but believe it outright? Not logical IMO.

TheNatural · Jun 27, 2011

HK-47 said:
You know what one of the most unreliable forms of evidence is? Eyewitness accounts.

Our perceptions arent that great. Simple optical illusions make the human brain crap itself.

And we're talking about things that show up on radar as well, and accounts that aren't just simple optical illusions and seen by many people. I think it's fairly ridiculous to just discount every single person to have claimed to seen something, and many times huge groups of people.

It's one thing to think you have saw something for a fleeting second and another to be seeing something for a long period of time in perfect view. This wouldn't happen with anything else, I mean if someone heard a window break, saw someone in their house, and the person jumped back out the window and called the police they wouldn't tell a family it was their imagination. So why are people discounting everything when there's sightings along with physical evidence of things like burn patterns or so on in a field? It's really shortsighted to just say everything is an optical illusion for no reason.

Cujshi · Jun 28, 2011

@ - nVidiot_Whore

what ? you cant "debunk" something that is obviously out of place.

my info is not old, my info is from all over the place + I have been there. you have to go there, to see it, and not just post your comments based on the pictures.

There is no way that slaves did it. cause, that would suggest that slaves, 80.000 of them had at least 100.000 skilled guards. Not even Kim Il Jong could do that with his half of the population.

tell me, really, how it was debunked ? for instance, WHY didnt they use number Pi in other projects .. ? that kind of knowledge would surely lead to the invention of Siege weapons, making the Egypt absolute ruler of the world till the 500 BC, and the siege weapons were invented by greeks around that time.

elrechazado · Jun 28, 2011

Cujshi said:
Great Pyramid of Giza is the proof that SOMEONE other than known human civilization bulit them.

1. 2 million blocks, 4 to 50 tons.

2. used number Pi, 1000 years before greeks, 2000 years before practical use.

3. Pyramids are in perfect distance ratio as 3 stars from Orions Belt.

4. Great Pyramid is on one of the centers of land mass (5-6 in the world) that includes even the America continent, undiscovered till 1500's AD

5. Pyramid does not break the imagined base line for more than half of millimeter.

6. Mortar is yet unidentified even with today's chemistry knowledge

7. Pyramid has Anti Earthquake system, that was actually used in modern construction as a template.

8. coincidence or not - the opened Queen chamber has a temperature of 67 C - average temperature of all the world surface.

9. during the spring equinox, in 12 o clock there isnt ONE millimeter of shadow, due to the base/height ratio of Pyramid.

10. Pyramid is the only object oriented to the true north, till the 1800's AD.

11. Base of the pyramid is 365.24 Pyramid cubits long (egyptian measure ) which represents the EXACT number of days in one year - fact not known till thousands of years latter.

12. The only reason why there is no "silly" theory of how the Pyramid is built is because of the fact that the person who proposes it would be ridiculed. but the Science community is aware of the fact tht many things dont add up.

Fibonaci sequence Golden ratio, number Pi, astronomy, extensive knowledge of the world - all the fact that Egypt just didnt possess.

the current theory proposes that it was built in the timespawn of 20 years, with 80.000 workers doing with no breaks. with the egypt having only 350.000 men, and the fact that most of them had to bring food, and wars and such - it is highly improbable that they did it.

FUN FACT - the biggest Limestone Query in the world, belonging to the Indiana building union couldnt produce such number of rocks, and their chairman calculated that it would take them more than 10 years for building it, using heicopters, trucks, cars, roads, power tools, cranes, and such ...

we (humans, of known civilization) didnt build this shit.

Amazing ignorance, and really just spouting of von daniken/history channel crazy level nonsense. We have actual tangible historical record of the workers building the pyramids, but I'm sure all of that evidence is fake.

This kind of psuedoscience is the equivalent of "magnets, how do they work??"

mjc · Jun 28, 2011

Aliens are definitely out there, but I'm not sure if they've visited.

1. Like someone said earlier, if they could travel the vastness of space to reach Earth, chances are they can visit/observe without us knowing.

2. Stephen Hawking said that if aliens visit Earth, chances are they're here for our resources. They would be openly hostile.

3. We are simply too low on the intelligence scale for them to even bother with.

That being said, there are several interesting things to think about. For one, the ancient aliens idea and how they might have aided us in making technological leaps is cool to think about.

Or maybe they've been here for a while now and we just don't know it?

Edit: I think the idea of aliens aiding in construction of the pyramids is a bit loony. I wouldn't underestimate the manpower Egypt had at the time to construct such things.

TheNatural · Jun 28, 2011

nVidiot_Whore said:
There are exponentially more pilots who claim to never have seen such things.. exponentially more people who've never seen anything "strange in the sky" than those that have.. not to mention the fact that nearly our entire planet is monitored by all types of electronic recording devices.. video.. audio.. radar, etc. Not to mention how many accounts match the science fiction works of the time period the accounts stem from...

And some of those "military pilots" who've seen things have turned out to be quite ridiculous story tellers.

You are welcome to "believe" what you want.. but I have done plenty of research.. and there is an overwhelming lack of real evidence.. and a large amount of fanatics who want so badly to believe things that they are well meaning but unreliable sources of information.

I just personally don't think it's logical to base a "belief" on such eye witness accounts.. is it possible? Sure.. but believe it outright? Not logical IMO.

Well good for you, believe what you want. Exponentially more people doesn't mean every person. There's plenty of people with rare diseases, that doesn't mean they don't exist. And generalizing everyone as ridiculous story tellers is ignorant. I've heard plenty, if not most, accounts of "well this is what I saw, I'm just reporting it, I have no idea what it was but it's what I've experienced."

It's people like you why nothing is ever taken seriously though. Most accounts I've heard or read are people who don't make this into an agenda for their own fame or glorification, they're just simply telling a story of what they experienced. I mean really, that's all it is, trying to get a logical explanation to a phenomenon that's happened to thousands and thousands of people. Telling perfect sane individuals who can tell the the difference between an object moving in the air in close proximity in abnormal speeds that they're just imagining things is fairly ridiculous - and makes you no better than the people you claim badly want to believe things.

fierrotlepou · Jun 28, 2011

NeededSleep said:
We are the people of walmart for them. They are just laughing at us at how much of a mess we screw ourselves over time and time again and never learn.

Every civilization does this. Perfection is impossible, unless it's made by imperfect beings.

EmCeeGramr · Jun 28, 2011

"Aliens built the pyramids!" is the modern day slightly-less-racist-intent version of the 1800s "The Lost Tribe of Israel/Atlantis/(insert not Native American group here) built the earthen mounds!"

Cujshi · Jun 28, 2011

elrechazao said:
Amazing ignorance, and really just spouting of von daniken/history channel crazy level nonsense. We have actual tangible historical record of the workers building the pyramids, but I'm sure all of that evidence is fake.

This kind of psuedoscience is the equivalent of "magnets, how do they work??"

Ok, if you have "actual tangible historical record" of things that took place 4600 years ago, please do tell me - Who and why killed JFK ? i believe that "actual tangible record" of an incident that took place 50 years ago is correct without a doubt .. ?

nVidiot_Whore · Jun 28, 2011

Cujshi said:
my info is not old, my info is from all over the place + I have been there. you have to go there, to see it, and not just post your comments based on the pictures.

Some of the "facts" you present are based on scientific works presented or published decades or even hundred+ years ago.. so yeah.. it's old... and some of it just flat out wrong (like the exact center of land mass stuff)

WHY didnt they use number Pi in other projects .. ?

They appeared to have MAYBE used roughly Pi in 2 pyramids, most accurately The Great Pyramid. But there are also other theories of why the dimensions appear to correlate with Pi.. calculating Pi precisely wasn't possible for some time, but it's not conceptually beyond the Mathematics of the time. And ancient Egyptian scrolls have been found showing rough calculations of Pi well before the Greeks figured it out...

But why the leap to assuming they'd invent siege weapons? What?

Simon Belmont · Jun 28, 2011

Cujshi said:
Ok, if you have "actual tangible historical record" of things that took place 4600 years ago, please do tell me - Who and why killed JFK ? i believe that "actual tangible record" of an incident that took place 50 years ago is correct without a doubt .. ?

A) How does that make your position any more reasonable,
And
B) How are those two things in any way linked?

EmCeeGramr · Jun 28, 2011

Cujshi said:
Ok, if you have "actual tangible historical record" of things that took place 4600 years ago, please do tell me - Who and why killed JFK ? i believe that "actual tangible record" of an incident that took place 50 years ago is correct without a doubt .. ?

Lee Harvey Oswald. though his exact motivations are hard to concluded since he never explained them. Boy, that was easy.

nVidiot_Whore · Jun 28, 2011

TheNatural said:
It's people like you why nothing is ever taken seriously though. Most accounts I've heard or read are people who don't make this into an agenda for their own fame or glorification, they're just simply telling a story of what they experienced. I mean really, that's all it is, trying to get a logical explanation to a phenomenon that's happened to thousands and thousands of people.

There are almost always entirely logical explanations.. videos easily explained.. so many hoaxes proven as hoaxes.. people mistaking common aircraft or lights as something else..

And your assessment of the accounts you've heard of is also a huge generalization.. they are just people telling a story eh? That is, in my opinion, a gullible assessment of your average UFO account.. which you are only reading or hearing about because someone sought out the media in the first place.

Telling perfect sane individuals who can tell the the difference between an object moving in the air in close proximity in abnormal speeds that they're just imagining things is fairly ridiculous - and makes you no better than the people you claim badly want to believe things.

I never said people were imagining things. Some might be.. others might simply be lying.. many more simply seeing something perfectly explainable.. either way, judging the size, speed, and distance of objects moving through the sky is extremely difficult.. which is where many UFO stories fall completely apart.

TheNatural · Jun 28, 2011

nVidiot_Whore said:
There are almost always entirely logical explanations.. videos easily explained.. so many hoaxes proven as hoaxes.. people mistaking common aircraft or lights as something else..

And your assessment of the accounts you've heard of is also a huge generalization.. they are just people telling a story eh?

I never said people were imagining things. Some might be.. others might simply be lying.. many more simply seeing something perfectly explainable.. either way, judging the size, speed, and distance of objects moving through the sky is extremely difficult.. which is where many UFO stories fall completely apart.

No I just find your rationale arrogant and ignorant. There are people who are longtime pilots, flown for a decade or more, that have come forward at times to say what they experienced with a co-pilot or whatever and have absolutely zero motivation to do so, and only receive backlash and criticism when they do so.

I mean who the hell are YOU to tell someone what they saw, someone that's done a job long enough to tell you the difference between everything they see in the sky? That's my problem with what you're saying, you're basically making a judgment on what people say who know a hell of a lot more than you do about what goes on in the airspace, and can tell what is a really crazy ass experience such as an object near their wing stalking them and taking off in high speed. You've already come to the determination that it's some illusion or explanation that doesn't fit at all because "it can't be" or they're lying because "it can't be." You've already decided what it is or isn't despite the fact you have 0% of the experience or knowledge of being in that situation as those people. That's what I have a problem with.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not making determination or judgment on these people when I hear stories about this stuff from credible individuals. I'm not saying what is or isn't. I'm not desperate to fit it in a black or white area like people like yourself who want to decide what something is no matter how square the peg is you're trying to fit into the round hole.

All I'm saying is, hey there's people with a decade plus or more of flying experience, who have no personal problems and are completely credible, who experienced something others saw, that isn't seeing Venus, that isn't seeing a cumulus cloud, that isn't the Northern Lights or some other obviously wrong explanation - it happened to them, they don't know what it is, and we don't know what it is. And that's all.

Cujshi · Jun 28, 2011

nVidiot_Whore -

"The Pyramid is located at the exact center of the Earth's land mass. That is, its East-West axis corresponds to the longest land parallel across the Earth, passing through Africa, Asia, and America. Similarly, the longest land meridian on Earth, through Asia, Africa, Europa, and Antarctica, also passes right through the Pyramid. Since the Earth has enough land area to provide 3 billion possible building sites for the Pyramid, the odds of it's having been built where it is are 1 in 3 billion."

check the fact, go ahead.

@Simon Belmont -

related, cause he knows "actual tangible historical record", and cant really say what happened 50 years ago.

@EmCeeGramr - yet another victim of Warren commission report. 6.12 millimeter bullet ricocheted 3 times through the JFK bones ... yeah. it is amazing how you people take things for granted cause you saw it on TV.

standard NATO bullet of 5.56 caliber can ricochet 3 times through the bones one in a million shots. the caliber was put to use cause of the Geneva convention, cause of the "humanity" factor because 7.62 could not ricochet, passing through the flesh, leaving person wounded on the battlefield. 5.56 could hit you in the shoulder, and bounce into your heart. cause, you know - NATO says it's better that he dies.

6.12 CANNOT ricochet 3 times, cause it's to heavy, and it has bigger velocity than smaller bullets, that normally dont ricochet 3 times. so, NO, Oswald didnt kill JFK.

nVidiot_Whore · Jun 28, 2011

TheNatural said:
I mean who the hell are YOU to tell someone what they saw, someone that's done a job long enough to tell you the difference between everything they see in the sky?

I've spoken with many pilots about this topic actually.. they will tell you the bolded is just a flat out lie. They are taught to rely on machines precisely BECAUSE of how difficult certain optical illusions make calculating "what you are seeing in the sky."

That's my problem with what you're saying, you're basically making a judgment on what people say

You are the one who says you believe in it.. I said I didn't.. but that it was possible.

My "judgment", or really LACK of JUDGMENT stems from living on this planet for 32 years, and my own sense of logic.

I'm fascinated by UFO stories for sure.. and read a lot about them.. including debunkings that many UFO fans will never bother to research in the first place.

Like I said.. they COULD BE true.. It's simply not enough compelling evidence for me to believe in the idea outright.. nor do I find it entirely logical.. and I have explanations for why there are so many "sightings" that are logical to me.. so.. relax.

KHarvey16 · Jun 28, 2011

TheNatural said:
No I just find your rationale arrogant and ignorant. There are people who are longtime pilots, flown for a decade or more, that have come forward at times to say what they experienced with a co-pilot or whatever and have absolutely zero motivation to do so, and only receive backlash and criticism when they do so.

I mean who the hell are YOU to tell someone what they saw, someone that's done a job long enough to tell you the difference between everything they see in the sky? That's my problem with what you're saying, you're basically making a judgment on what people say who know a hell of a lot more than you do about what goes on in the airspace, and can tell what is a really crazy ass experience such as an object near their wing stalking them and taking off in high speed. You've already come to the determination that it's some illusion or explanation that doesn't fit at all because "it can't be" or they're lying because "it can't be." You've already decided what it is or isn't despite the fact you have 0% of the experience or knowledge of being in that situation as those people. That's what I have a problem with.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not making determination or judgment on these people when I hear stories about this stuff from credible individuals. I'm not saying what is or isn't. I'm not desperate to fit it in a black or white area like people like yourself who want to decide what something is no matter how square the peg is you're trying to fit into the round hole.

All I'm saying is, hey there's people with a decade plus or more of flying experience, who have no personal problems and are completely credible, who experienced something others saw, that isn't seeing Venus, that isn't seeing a cumulus cloud, that isn't the Northern Lights or some other obviously wrong explanation - it happened to them, they don't know what it is, and we don't know what it is. And that's all.

Eyewitness testimony is very weak evidence. If that is all you have, NO MATTER the source, that claim can only be evaluated against what we know or suspect to be true. Without a reason to believe there are alien craft visiting earth, there is no reason to attempt to interpret their sightings as anything but terrestrial craft, natural phenomenon, hallucinations or just plain lying until and unless we learn anything new or additional evidence is presented. This is not a judgment of character and it doesn't matter how qualified they are.

nVidiot_Whore · Jun 28, 2011

Cujshi said:
nVidiot_Whore -

"The Pyramid is located at the exact center of the Earth's land mass. That is, its East-West axis corresponds to the longest land parallel across the Earth, passing through Africa, Asia, and America. Similarly, the longest land meridian on Earth, through Asia, Africa, Europa, and Antarctica, also passes right through the Pyramid. Since the Earth has enough land area to provide 3 billion possible building sites for the Pyramid, the odds of it's having been built where it is are 1 in 3 billion."

http://www.catchpenny.org/pyramid.html

BigPickZel · Jun 28, 2011

Obsessed said:
Do you actually view that as proof of alien visitation? I could just as easily put "GOD/ZEUS/LOKI DID IT" as a suitable explanation.

I also think you are vastly underestimating the intelligence level of past civilizations.

Haha, seriously. "OK, we flew here from a distant planet light years away, we can cover our tracks perfectly... let's stack some rocks up real high!" Maybe they came from Broplanet and they were rushing Sigma or something.

KHarvey16 · Jun 28, 2011

Cujshi said:
@Simon Belmont -

related, cause he knows "actual tangible historical record", and cant really say what happened 50 years ago.

@EmCeeGramr - yet another victim of Warren commission report. 6.12 millimeter bullet ricocheted 3 times through the JFK bones ... yeah. it is amazing how you people take things for granted cause you saw it on TV.

standard NATO bullet of 5.56 caliber can ricochet 3 times through the bones one in a million shots. the caliber was put to use cause of the Geneva convention, cause of the "humanity" factor because 7.62 could not ricochet, passing through the flesh, leaving person wounded on the battlefield. 5.56 could hit you in the shoulder, and bounce into your heart. cause, you know - NATO says it's better that he dies.

6.12 CANNOT ricochet 3 times, cause it's to heavy, and it has bigger velocity than smaller bullets, that normally dont ricochet 3 times. so, NO, Oswald didnt kill JFK.

I guess it's a good thing he wasn't shot with a 6.12mm round, then.

7echnicolor · Jun 28, 2011

Dechaios said:
Anyone who thinks aliens have been here either don't know enough about space or have have huffed way too much paint in their lives.

Yeah ok.

So you believe that there is absolutely no chance aliens have visited our planet? No chance at all, nothing.

TheNatural · Jun 28, 2011

nVidiot_Whore said:
I've spoken with many pilots about this topic actually.. they will tell you the bolded is just a flat out lie. They are taught to rely on machines precisely BECAUSE of how difficult certain optical illusions make calculating "what you are seeing in the sky."

You are the one who says you believe in it.. I said I didn't.. but that it was possible.

My "judgment", or really LACK of JUDGMENT stems from living on this planet for 32 years, and my own sense of logic.

I'm fascinated by UFO stories for sure.. and read a lot about them.. including debunkings that many UFO fans will never bother to research in the first place.

Like I said.. they COULD BE true.. It's simply not enough compelling evidence for me to believe in the idea outright.. nor do I find it entirely logical.. and I have explanations for why there are so many "sightings" that are logical to me.. so.. relax.

You've talked to pilots about the fact they can't trust seeing a completely visible object in front of their eyes? We're not talking 'oh I thought I just saw something.' Again, it's pretty fucking arrogant and ignorant to tell someone who's been doing something years and years what they really saw and can't tell the difference between something completely out there odd and scary from other things. And those machines, by the way, have shown plenty of radar tracked anomalies as well.

I'm not saying I believe it's aliens or I believe it's this or that - I'm just saying that it's something that's there that doesn't fit into conventional explanations. You're the one who's already made the judgment of what it is, regardless of whether it fits or not. I have no problem with shades of gray and not judging something on what it can't be.

elrechazado · Jun 28, 2011

7echnicolor said:
Yeah ok.

So you believe that there is absolutely no chance aliens have visited our planet? No chance at all, nothing.

Statistical unlikelihood is functionally equal to "no chance". But yes, if you want to be pedantic, there is a statistically insignificant possibility that almost anything is possible.

Cujshi · Jun 28, 2011

KHarvey16 said:
I guess it's a good thing he wasn't shot with a 6.12mm round, then.

I mixed the rifles, it was italian Carcano rifle - which is 6.77, a fac that makes things even worse. that caliber CANNOT ricochet even once.

'bout the aliens, just the science -

recently discovered bacteria that uses Arsenic instead of phosphorus is a direct proof that process of abiogenesis took place more than once on earth (the process that makes life, in short)

so, if it has happened here at least 2 times - it must have happened somewhere in the universe.

according to the latest findings, many many stars have planets that resemble Solar system, so in the vastness of the universe, the math suggests that it is inevitable that there is a life out there.

I dont believe that they visited, because of us. we are sure gonna destroy our selves before we invent interstellar travel, and that would probably be the fact anywhere in the universe.

nVidiot_Whore · Jun 28, 2011

TheNatural said:
it's pretty fucking arrogant and ignorant

Rinse, repeat, insult.

I've simply presented my own logic.. you presented yours while continuously insulting me. Go fuck an alien.

KHarvey16 · Jun 28, 2011

Cujshi said:
I mixed the rifles, it was italian Carcano rifle - which is 6.77, a fac that makes things even worse. that caliber CANNOT ricochet even once.

It was 6.5mm. How many times did it ricochet and by how much? Show me, don't just say it.

Cujshi said:
'bout the aliens, just the science -

recently discovered bacteria that uses Arsenic instead of phosphorus is a direct proof that process of abiogenesis took place more than once on earth (the process that makes life, in short)

so, if it has happened here at least 2 times - it must have happened somewhere in the universe.

Again, selective information. There are many problems with this claim and it does not seem to pass standard scientific rigor.

Cujshi said:
according to the latest findings, many many stars have planets that resemble Solar system, so in the vastness of the universe, the math suggests that it is inevitable that there is a life out there.

I dont believe that they visited, because of us. we are sure gonna destroy our selves before we invent interstellar travel, and that would probably be the fact anywhere in the universe.

The math only suggests things based on the assumptions we have to feed into the equation.

TheNatural · Jun 28, 2011

nVidiot_Whore said:
Rinse, repeat, insult.

I've simply presented my own logic.. you presented yours while continuously insulting me. Go fuck an alien.

I'm not insulting you, I'm just explaining what you're doing. I gave my opinion and you're the one who responded to me, basically saying that everything I said wasn't right because people are outrageous storytellers to people who want badly to believe. I have no dog in the fight of 'badly wanting to believe' - hell if anything I would badly want this NOT to be going on, because its pretty damn scary to think about people experiencing shit flying in close proximity to them in ridiculous speeds and I personally wouldn't mind going my whole life without experiencing it.

I just find it incredibly arrogant first off to act like that we know so much in our current state of society that something like unidentified craft couldn't be flying around in our skies without it being something everyone commonly knows about. We're a hair on a dog's ass of advancement, 15-20 years ago we wouldn't be having this conversation over some text, wires, and screens and 180 or so years ago we wouldn't be able to have a conversation period unless we wanted to hop horse and buggy for a few weeks. About a millisecond of time compared to everything that goes on in the universe. But yeah, we totally have the knowledge to discount anything that doesn't make logical sense in our schema at this point in time. That's worked so well throughout history to be so closed minded.

I mean what is so wrong with saying "well I don't believe it, but I really don't know what it is, and there's definitely some stuff that doesn't fit into anything at all that makes no sense as explainable natural phenomenon." Instead, the first response is always about how people are liars or mistaken and only people who badly want to believe think anything of it, and so on. Does everything always have to fit into a black or white explanation?

ThoseDeafMutes · Jun 28, 2011

EmCeeGramr said:
Aliens to whom the passage of time means little or who possess faster-than-light technology came to Earth in the distant past.

Their first order of business was to build a big triangle out of rocks in the middle of the desert for dead people to be put in.

Dude, the pyramids are landing pads for the aliens. Because the first thing we do when we construct a runway is dump a thousand tonnes of rock in the way without a single light to be found.

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