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Boy refuses to live as male; parents seek help of therapists, opt for delayed puberty
- Thread starter Mr.Awesome
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Shurs said:
It *is* such a young age to make such a life changing decision. The parents, the kid and all the professionals agreed.
So they sought to give the kid more time to make the decision through the none-permanent process of chemically delaying the onset of puberty.
I understand where the knee jerk crowd is coming from... they're operating on some pretty standard heuristics.
Chemicals = bad
Screwing around with natural development = bad
ergo, using chemicals to screw around with natural development is double bad.
Of course those ideas are also conflated with subconcious negative associations with lesbians and transgendered issues...
But if we are to rationally assess the situation, as you would do when you are faced with the issue first hand and have time to make a decision; of the available options; forcing gender reassignment before puberty to allow for the best long term physical outcome, but also before the child had fully resolved the issue; letting the child deal with it naturally, letting the issue become double complicated with the presence of physique changing hormones which would result in a poor long term physical outcome, or giving the child additional time to resolve the gender issue naturally, by chemically delaying the onset of puberty - the best choice in the immediate and long term interest of the child was chosen.
I'm confused/curious about the 'delaying puberty' thing. Wouldn't the onset of puberty and the hormonal changes that includes, have at least some affect on how your sexual identity is formed? Or at least magnify what is already there to help you understand it? I guess its wobbly ground as I don't fully understand it, plus gender isn't the same as sexual orientation (could want to be a girl but end up a lesbian for example)
Hot Coldman
Banned
This is why I only discuss trivialities on the Internet
Solo was right, lol
Solo was right, lol
mrklaw said:
Yes it would; but hormones don't guarantee sexual identity.
It would be one of the two worse case scenarios for the child; where puberty takes hold before they resolve the issue - causing additional gender identity conflicts, and only in adult life do they resolve the issue; deciding to live out their lives as a woman, and having to undergo only partially effective hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery.
The best case scenario is - the child resolves his/her gender identity before the onset of puberty and undergo the relevant hormone/SRS so that when they do become adults, that their bodies are most congruent with their identified gender.
Either you could hope that they sought it out before the natural onset of puberty, or you could be understanding and rational parents and allow the child more time to resolve their issues through the options available to you.
SouthernDragon
Member
I just want to point out that 53 members were banned because of this thread, or 21% of all members who posted in here.
Impressive.
Impressive.
Read the article (Have no idea why people are banned since I don't look back on a big thread. Hopefully it wasn't because they agreed with a lot of the experts in the article. Quite frankly, the title still appears misleading).
Couldn't care less whether the parents forced it or the kid wants it, the parents should wait. Spend the time and effort helping the kid to come to terms with what they feel so that the child will feel more comfortable when they make the supposedly obvious choice at adulthood.
Couldn't care less whether the parents forced it or the kid wants it, the parents should wait. Spend the time and effort helping the kid to come to terms with what they feel so that the child will feel more comfortable when they make the supposedly obvious choice at adulthood.
I understand why the medics recommended the hormone block to delay puberty, but it still feels weird to me. I didn't feel "like a man" (nor a woman) until puberty happened, before that I was just a child.
But well, I agree with the worst case scenario (he decides to trasgender, but puberty already happened, so it's more troublesome). If they think the most likely outcome is the trasgender, it's reasonable.
But what would happen if he reconsiders at 15 and wants to remain male? Would he be a bit androgynous in the future (along with more side effects), or would he grow up as normal?
But well, I agree with the worst case scenario (he decides to trasgender, but puberty already happened, so it's more troublesome). If they think the most likely outcome is the trasgender, it's reasonable.
But what would happen if he reconsiders at 15 and wants to remain male? Would he be a bit androgynous in the future (along with more side effects), or would he grow up as normal?
Nope, but read the article though which would seem paramount.Dead Man said:
If there are other links to more info, I'll search, but searching through arguments is kind of pointless when the article makes a pretty solid case for why this is controversial.
The thread title gives off the impression it's not that big of a deal. Whether one is for or against it, it's a big deal.
Coming back to this thread, I am glad to see some bannings.
Whether you agree with the hormone blocking or not, calling out the parents for their sexual orientation or making ingnorant statements about dissasociative identity disorder is just wrong.
We already had a Trans Gaf thread, and that didn't educate people enough. Hopefully this thread will serve as a warning.
Whether you agree with the hormone blocking or not, calling out the parents for their sexual orientation or making ingnorant statements about dissasociative identity disorder is just wrong.
We already had a Trans Gaf thread, and that didn't educate people enough. Hopefully this thread will serve as a warning.
Souldriver
Member
Mother of god, this thread! I knew immediately this would be the source of all the bans.
I remember saying out loud "not touching this with a 10 foot pole" yesterday when I read the original thread title. Because, admittedly, my first post would've been something sarcastic along the lines of "gives these two the parents of the year award!".
Props to the people (Smokey_Dave, Stumpokapow, sangreal, ...) on the first few pages who said to look beyond the shitty thread title, biased story and gut reactions, and get the whole story first. And props to the people that stuck around (Gaborn, water_wendi...) to try and keep the ignorance ratio in this thread on a low level.
I remember saying out loud "not touching this with a 10 foot pole" yesterday when I read the original thread title. Because, admittedly, my first post would've been something sarcastic along the lines of "gives these two the parents of the year award!".
Props to the people (Smokey_Dave, Stumpokapow, sangreal, ...) on the first few pages who said to look beyond the shitty thread title, biased story and gut reactions, and get the whole story first. And props to the people that stuck around (Gaborn, water_wendi...) to try and keep the ignorance ratio in this thread on a low level.
Sutton Dagger
Member
Zaptruder said:
THIS.
I don't know how many times it has been explained in this thread, but please read this post regarding the hormone blocking and its implications.
Green Scar said:
I've found this to be the wisest forum posting strategy. At least, for longetivity's sake.
That and people on the Internet don't want to consider positions, just argue. So why bother?
For a quick on topic: One thing to bear in mind with this whole discussion is that its been shown that puberty for children is getting lower and lower in age for the onset.
Source
LA Times said:
Further source, with a focus on the voice of boys as an indicator of puberty
Economist said:
Something to consider in talking about delaying the onset of puberty.
planar1280
Banned
girls usually get puberty almost always a few years before boys so I don't know how the hormonal system would work if the delay is artificial (medicated).
Live Free or Die
Banned
People are crazy. You can't change your gender.
This kind of situation must be very difficult for a parent. On the other hand using chemicals to delay natural development is somewhat scary, as human body is a complicated machine. On the other hand the forced delay could lead to much happier life for the child. It comes down to the parent in the end, as a child of 11 can't really make good judgment calls no matter how they want to. They're just not equipped for it.
One can only hope the choice they make leads to a happy conclusion.
One can only hope the choice they make leads to a happy conclusion.
samus i am
Member
Yep, just as I expected. I posted once in this thread, saw where it was heading, and bailed. The thread title most certainly makes it seem like the parents are forcing it on the kid to make him in their image. However, once you read the article you can see that they are just trying to do what's best for him.
Angry Fork
Member
Why were so many people banned? About to read through the thread now but did this thread turn into an insult war back and forth or something?
FrontalMonk
Banned
really good friend of mine transitioned in her early-mid 20's and if there's one thing that stuck in my mind reading the OP, its her wish that she had done it sooner, like high school or earlier. The thing I needed to be told at the time it was explained to me is that its a little like homosexuality insofar as it's not really a choice. If you were to get an honest answer from her 10 years ago if she was a boy or a girl, it would be unequivocally that she's a girl. That she was "born wrong", was how she put it at the time.
staying on topic, good on the parents for giving the kid time to come around to this decision. I'm pretty sure Tammy will go through with the rest of the treatment though. I don't think gender identity isn't something that flip flops a whole lot. You either know in your heart of hearts that you're a boy or you're a girl.
staying on topic, good on the parents for giving the kid time to come around to this decision. I'm pretty sure Tammy will go through with the rest of the treatment though. I don't think gender identity isn't something that flip flops a whole lot. You either know in your heart of hearts that you're a boy or you're a girl.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
mrklaw said:
You've read what they've said. Are they really "good" posters? Being completely ignorant about transgender people in general? Believing a Fox News article as straight fact in the first place? It seems that too many people get their information on the topic from Mr. Garrison from South Park.
Zaptruder said:
Just want to quote this again. Its the best job I have seen in summing up the entire issue.
Angry Fork
Member
rofl. fair enough I'll read the thread first hopefully it's entertaining.SmokyDave said:
So moving back to legitimate discussion, would taking hormone inhibitors have any serious side effect if the child decided they wanted to be a boy?
The article makes it sound like there's a strong chance the child would become a real suicide risk if they went through puberty.mrklaw said:
BlazingDarkness
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what the fuck happened here :lol
EmCeeGramr
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Interesting article. Sounds like the kid's gender issues are fairly legit, but man, allowing a child that young to make such a life-altering decision seems very questionable.
I have a cousin, male, who is now 19. He similarly acted like a girl as a child, going so far as to say that he "wanted to be a girl," wanted to exclusively play with "girl" toys, dress as a girl, etc. Im' talking profound commitment through childhood to the notion that he identified as a girl. He is now 21, nice kid, attending college on a singing scholarship. Because his family is strict Mormons, and he is active, it's impossible to know if he is still dealing with gender / sexuality issues, but I would assume so.
But man, I just don't know about allowing a child that young to make such a permanent, life-changing decision. Even waiting until he is 15 seems wildly too young to make a decision like that. But, at the same time I can't imagine being a parent and genuinely believing your kid would lead a better, more fulfilling life as a different gender...
I have a cousin, male, who is now 19. He similarly acted like a girl as a child, going so far as to say that he "wanted to be a girl," wanted to exclusively play with "girl" toys, dress as a girl, etc. Im' talking profound commitment through childhood to the notion that he identified as a girl. He is now 21, nice kid, attending college on a singing scholarship. Because his family is strict Mormons, and he is active, it's impossible to know if he is still dealing with gender / sexuality issues, but I would assume so.
But man, I just don't know about allowing a child that young to make such a permanent, life-changing decision. Even waiting until he is 15 seems wildly too young to make a decision like that. But, at the same time I can't imagine being a parent and genuinely believing your kid would lead a better, more fulfilling life as a different gender...
lawblob said:
It's not like it's solely the kid's decision. It's the kid, the parents, and the therapists. This is something that has taken years. And all they're doing at this point is using hormone blockers to give the kid and the rest of them more time to make sure they make the right decision.
polyh3dron
Banned
Holy shit it's the GAFpocalypse.
This is how I feel about it to be honest. Puberty is a rough period for everyone, of all genders. But to push off till a later date, who knows when that will, when the kid decides on which gender to go with and then getting the child off the chemicals when he's made the transition just sounds very concerning to me. What if he has second thoughts after actually experiencing puberty?mrklaw said:
Gaborn said:
Is there any information about his day to day social life? I have to imagine delaying puberty for several years would further complicate your ability to relate to peers, not to mention its effect on his sense of self during that time in attempting to make such a big decision.
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