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LTTP: Alpha Protocol

Just finished Alpha Protocol, like, two hours ago. It honestly surprised me how much I enjoyed it.

Choice:
Michael Thorton: As far as protagonists functioning as avatars go, Mike works. I’m pretty cool with blank slates, but tend to prefer avatars that have a basic semblance of character; enough that they themselves aren’t entirely boring and it makes their interactions with other characters more believable, but not so much that the choices you’re allowed to make don’t gel with it.

The best part is player influenced characterization that’s actually acknowledged by the game. You talk about being a patriot to everyone, they’ll bring it up in other conversations. Stuff like that gives off the feeling that you’re adding more to Mike than just a few throw away lines that will be forgotten as soon as the scene they came up in is over.

Dialogue: At last, the dialogue wheel has a tangible reason for existence. Okay, it’s not exactly a wheel in AP, but it’s the same basic concept; a simplified interface for that allows the player to quickly asses their choices by making the process of choosing faster, paraphrasing dialogue, and giving options with similar effects consistent placement within that interface. The actual change is usually just cosmetic, since picking choices from a list isn’t much harder and the end result with the wheel is just that it’s slightly faster. Some would even argue stuff like paraphrasing is counterproductive when it ends up not getting the point of the full line across to the player.

In making dialogue timed around the flow of a normal conversation, AP made the streamlining of dialogue choices worthwhile. You need to be quick with your words, so being able to switch options very quickly, knowing where certain choices will be beforehand, and paraphrasing need to be there or none of it would work. And since, as stated earlier, timed dialogue flows more naturally, it not only spices up the meta-game behind dialogue choices, but also feels much better from presentation standpoint.

Intel: Like logs, minus the realization that everyone in the universe must’ve randomly decided to write diary entries based entirely around what’s happening in the story and scatter them exactly where you’d happen to be passing. So it’s more Metroid Prime than Bioshock.

Being able to bring up Intel during dialogue was ace, both because it added credence to the Intel itself and it worked as an alternative to special stat based dialogue choices. They also helped in planning how to garner different effects on the influence of characters you’ve never met, without outright giving you the answer.

Influence: Not much to say here. I liked how characters would gain or lose it even for stuff like how you complete a mission (Though it might be a bit biased, as stealthy non-lethal runs tended to garner the most praise. Then again, I can see someone like SIE or Heck responding positively to up-front murder fests).
Stuff that isn’t choice, I guess:
Gunplay was weird, but it didn’t really phase me much since I was playing a Stealth build. So shooting only came up when I wasn’t just KO-ing people from behind, but even then it usually only consisted of the occasional silenced potshot to the head while hiding behind something. Bossfights were easy enough with just melee and a shotgun. I almost never used a gadget that wasn’t an EMP.

None of it was especially frustrating though, so there’s that.
TL;DR: Player agency in Alpha Protocol actually adds a lot to both gameplay and story where most non-Obsidian companies would end up with jarring disconnects, and missed opportunities. Everything else was meh, but the way Choice/Consequence worked was enough to carry the entire game for me.
 

DJ_Lae

Member
Really enjoyed the game as well - great characters, interesting story, fantastic dialogue system that actually gave choices some weight.

Gameplay was the weakest part, although it was never all that difficult once you level up pistols enough. So I enjoyed it much the same way I enjoyed Mass Effect 2 - enjoyable character interactions outside of missions, and then a bit of a slog during missions just to get to the next story bit.
 
Bioware could learn a thing or 200 from how Obsidian handled the dialogue system in that game. Adding that time limit alone made it 100 times better than anything Bioware has ever done in the last 6 years. Not to mention the actual choices MATTER.
 
Yeah, after hearing all the crap about how poor Alpha Protocol was at release, I didn't get it until last year when it was dirt cheap on Steam for $2. Clunky gameplay at times but damn, the story and how reactive the story is in giving you actual consequences and a sense of agency puts most other games to shame. Fantastic stuff.

Alpha Protocol along with The Witcher 2 really raised the bar for what developers can do with reactive narratives in games, IMO.
 

Kaizer

Banned
Bioware could learn a thing or 200 from how Obsidian handled the dialogue system in that game. Adding that time limit alone made it 100 times better than anything Bioware has ever done in the last 6 years. Not to mention the actual choices MATTER.

Agreed, it's personally my favorite game to ever do the dialogue system. Having a limited amount of time to make a choice during conversations, going on instinct, etc. makes it way better than most other games like it.
 

AColdDay

Member
Such a fucking cool game. Loved it except the boss fights (I almost quit at the cocaine guy and I did quit at the last boss section).

Wish there would be another one, but I know better than that.

Why on Earth did I get born on a planet where Sega controls the fate of Alpha Protocol, Shenmue and Valkyria Chronicles?
 
The Mana Legend said:
Bioware could learn a thing or 200 from how Obsidian handled the dialogue system in that game.
Speaking of which, you ever noticed how similar the Diplomatic/Sarcastic/Angry options and friendship/rivalry system in DA2 are to the Professional/Charming/Aggressive options and influence system in AP?
Sinatar said:
Make sure you do an asshole Thorton run at some point in time, it's amazing.
I can never do those. In fact, outside of SIE and the entertainment value, the aggressive option seemed pretty underutilized.
 

sixghost

Member
Bioware could learn a thing or 200 from how Obsidian handled the dialogue system in that game. Adding that time limit alone made it 100 times better than anything Bioware has ever done in the last 6 years. Not to mention the actual choices MATTER.

Agree with all points here.

It was fucking jaw-dropping to finish my playthrough, then hear people on here talking about main characters that I didn't even encounter. I went deep with the weird guy with the mute girl, and ended up never seeing SIE. Stuff like that made me immediately start a 2nd playthrough, which I rarely ever do.

The only thing I didn't like about the conversation time limit was when there was no real reason to need to rush. I seriously can't think about my answer for 5 more seconds when we are in absolutely no danger or hurry? Also, sometimes the countdown timer would start when the other person was like 1/4 of the way through their line, meaning needed to turn subtitles on and read ahead if you wanted to have more than a second to choose.

It's such a shame the gunplay with just fucking awful. Even more so when you encountered the bosses, which just completely did not fit with the tone of the game, or the style of the combat.

The game was awesome though, dumping points into stealth was hilarious, you practically become a ghost stabbing everyone in the neck without ever stopping.
 
The choice of three variants of douche Thornton still makes me unhappy with every WRPG I play. I thought the focus of how bad combat was in reviews when it's equally as if not more so shit in titles like Skyrim or Mass Effect 2 was appalling.
 

sixghost

Member
The choice of three variants of douche Thornton still makes me unhappy with every WRPG I play. I thought the focus of how bad combat was in reviews when it's equally as if not more so shit in titles like Skyrim or Mass Effect 2 was appalling.
Yeah it's a weird double standard. I think the combat is actually pretty fun if you focus on stealth for the regular enemies and pistols for the bosses.
Make sure you do an asshole Thorton run at some point in time, it's amazing.
Holy shit, that's incredible. The supporting characters actually treat you like they should if you're an asshole to them. I need to try that sometime.
 
Unfortunately, I ended up avoiding AP at release because of the bad word of mouth; I'm guessing this is what happened to most of us. I picked up the game used from Gamefly in December and don't regret it.

The gameplay wasn't really off-putting to me though. I honestly felt like AP handled stealth better than games that are ostensibly built around it, but that could just be the RPG nerd in me speaking. I realize most of the game's flaws and bugs come from Sega rushing Obsidian to get it out, but I was taken aback when I didn't see any title updates when I pulled the game up on my 360.

I'd love an AP2, but after AP's dismal release I can't imagine any publisher treating Obsidian better than Sega. Honestly, I'm not sure there's any Obsidian game (at least in the recent past) where rushing hasn't significantly hurt it at release. Those guys really can't get a break.
 

wondermega

Member
I worked on this game for a good one-and-a-half year of my life and still have not played the end result. I think I ought to pick it up by now :S Happy to see that it is still resonating with people-
 

Penguin

Member
I finished it last night (picked it up when Best Buy had their sale) and was pleasantly surprised by how good the game was.

The overall package anyhow, the shooting was really iffy, and it would load in the oddest of places for, but I focused on stealth and that really made up for the shooting.

Its fun to see your decisions have a clear and immediate and long-term impact on the story. I felt that Mass Effect 2 was individual chapters grouped together as a collection where as everything seems interconnected in AP even if you don't know it at first.
 

Dabanton

Member
I actually picked this game up last week at Gamestation for £5 as my friend was raving about it when it first came out but i was a bit "eh"

To my shame, it's a really good game i like the quick conversation options and the way they explain how building up relationships with other characters has an effect how they react to you.

The shooting feels a bit 'huh' but so far the overall package is solid

Oh and i'll agree Bioware needs to look at how this game deals with conversations.
 

Rad-

Member
It had great dialogue and characters. That's about it though. Everything else was pretty bad. One of the biggest disappointments this gen for me.
 

Riposte

Member
This game is pretty amazing. Flawed, obviously, but still worth playing. It has the best RPG story structure in videogames, outdoing games like Deus Ex and making Mass Effect look like FFXIII (that's true even including Mass Effect 1 and 2 as one game).

The first clip in "Michael Thorton, Psychopath" is one of the best lines in videogame IMO (made better since you get to pick it, too). Just the best "fuck you", truly great considering you are staring down the scariest antagonist in the game. Huge balls.
 

Grisby

Member
Fun but the gameplay was pretty janky and the overall story wasn't that interesting. The interactions between characters and intel stuff was neat but I couldn't help but feel the game deserved so much better then what it was getting.

An average game with flashes of brilliance.
Steven Heck is the man. The fact that he has The Voice Of Nolan North(tm) helps it.
Yeah, he was a fun character.
 

Splatt

Member
Playing as a stealth character was so broken in player's favor, but that's what made it fun for me. I think I killed most of the bosses by using the invisibility/camouflage ability before they would even begin their dialogue
KuGsj.gif
 

nHDR

Banned
Lacks polish but I love it! Its a shame they didn't make it with the overall quality of Mass Effect. Definitely a game I need to go back and beat a second time, wish a sequel was releasing. :(

Its a shame SEGA controls the rights to this and Shenmue. :(
 
Genuinely great game that was completely overlooked on release due to a lot of bad press because its not another fucking third person shooter, and a lot of people went in apparently wanting that.

I thought the focus of how bad combat was in reviews when it's equally as if not more so shit in titles like Skyrim or Mass Effect 2 was appalling.

interestingly, there is a real split in reviews between american and european press if you look at metacritic. The american press pretty much killed its sales by treating it as a Hitman game or something, where the european press praised it as an RPG.

The fact that it keeps popping up in LTTP 'I heard this was shit, picked it up cheap and realised its great' posts suggests either it was marketed wrongly, or it was unfairly overshadowed by Mass Effect 2 at launch
 

Jhoan

Member
This is one of the best games I played a year too late. I got it last December for 10 bucks and it just blew me away. I absolutely loved the dialogue system and the consequences in this game; the writing was excellent. I would have gladly given 60 bucks for it and still would have been happy.

Plus Heck was awesome. I loved him so much, I went with him as my handler for the last mission. Seriously, Obsidian knows how to make great RPG's; they just need more time to develop them. Hell the dialogue system in this game easily trumps the Mass Effect series' dialogue system.

Like everyone else said, the combat was pretty clunky, and the story was for the most part forgettable. The Chain Shot pistol ability, stealth abilities, and melee broke the game. I just ran up to most bosses and jammed B to win.

Oh and the Brayko boss battle was the most memorable boss battle in the game despite many people having trouble with it. I loved the locales and the hideouts.

I started on a second run as douche bag Mike but stopped playing in the game's tutorial mission. I would kill to see an AP2 with better conceived game play, an improved dialogue system (which again was awesome as is), and a less linear structure.
 

wondermega

Member
Crazy talk. What part of the game did you work on?
I was an environment & prop artist, worked on safehouses (Taipei, Rome, Moscow, Saudi Arabia) and a bunch of level stuff as well across most of those areas: Brayko's Mansion, a bunch of Taipei exteriors & interiors, and a whole load of other stuff that got cut (I believe) plus a bunch of other odds & ends. It's been a long time since I have thought about it :) The process inspired me to make an absolutely amazing (mostly unrelated) secret agent game which I'd love to do someday, I think it would really stand out due to the gimmick I've got in mind. We'll see what happens..
 

Jhoan

Member
I was an environment & prop artist, worked on safehouses (Taipei, Rome, Moscow, Saudi Arabia) and a bunch of level stuff as well across most of those areas: Brayko's Mansion, a bunch of Taipei exteriors & interiors, and a whole load of other stuff that got cut (I believe) plus a bunch of other odds & ends. It's been a long time since I have thought about it :) The process inspired me to make an absolutely amazing (mostly unrelated) secret agent game which I'd love to do someday, I think it would really stand out due to the gimmick I've got in mind. We'll see what happens..

I loved the Safe houses. Especially the Taipei one. I also thought the Museum was great, as were the Yacht, Brayko's mansion (the paintings were cool), and the park in Taipei. Make this secret agent game happen if you can. Judging by the fact that you're saying that you were an environmental and prop artist, I take it you're not working at Obsidian?

Also is there anything else you can tell us anything about the game (random facts, design decisions) that you can discuss?
 

Kimaka

Member
I generally prefer WRPGs with a voiceless, customizable main character but this game blew me away and became one of my favorite RPGs. Not only does the game not punish you for not sticking to one personality, it occasionally commends you for it. Characters recognized previous actions and surprisingly commented on personality switches during conversations.

Count me as another person who heard it was terrible, bought it heavily discounted, and ended up liking it.
 
I was an environment & prop artist, worked on safehouses (Taipei, Rome, Moscow, Saudi Arabia) and a bunch of level stuff as well across most of those areas: Brayko's Mansion, a bunch of Taipei exteriors & interiors, and a whole load of other stuff that got cut (I believe) plus a bunch of other odds & ends. It's been a long time since I have thought about it :) The process inspired me to make an absolutely amazing (mostly unrelated) secret agent game which I'd love to do someday, I think it would really stand out due to the gimmick I've got in mind. We'll see what happens..

Just wanted to say that Brayko's place is fucking awesome. I loved the overall art-direction of the entire grounds, from the snowy old stone exterior to the tragically 80s interior decorating.
 
I picked it up last year for £6 online, I read a review after buying it (probably IGN, lol) and they made it sound like a bug-infested piece of crap with potential, and it didn't really really match my experience.

The gameplay wasn't outstanding or anything but it wasn't unplayable either as suggested, and I rather enjoyed the story as well as the character interactions and the general RPG elements of the game.

It'll likely never happen, but I'd love to see Obsidian make a sequel.
 
Yeah, this game was amazing. Definitely my surprise of the generation, and I regret not buying it at full price at launch. (bought it on sale for $10 new via amazon)
 

Hambone

Member
Loved this game. Double dipped on the PC version and Xbox. Played through it three times, including a mirrored sunglasses, asshole Thorton, who shot first, and asked questions later. ;)
 

jtb

Banned
the most important thing that I loved loved loved about Alpha Protocol was that you can fuck up and still continue (very reminiscent of Deus Ex in that regards). You say the wrong thing, they won't give you info -- where Mass Effect or Dragon Age (particularly the second installments) would simply have you say some more magical words to convince them or break out into a fight you would never be able to avoid anyways, here, your choices matter; not just because you get karma points, not just because it'll change your ending, but because here, there are tangible stakes. It's one of the lacking characteristics in most video games (how do you make things have stakes when you can just die and reset?) and Obsidian really pulled it off fantastically.
 
I was an environment & prop artist, worked on safehouses (Taipei, Rome, Moscow, Saudi Arabia) and a bunch of level stuff as well across most of those areas: Brayko's Mansion, a bunch of Taipei exteriors & interiors, and a whole load of other stuff that got cut (I believe) plus a bunch of other odds & ends. It's been a long time since I have thought about it :) The process inspired me to make an absolutely amazing (mostly unrelated) secret agent game which I'd love to do someday, I think it would really stand out due to the gimmick I've got in mind. We'll see what happens..

Great job. The Taipei safehouse was my favorite and Brayko's Mansion was definitely one of the best levels, at least in terms of art direction.
 

wondermega

Member
I loved the Safe houses. Especially the Taipei one. I also thought the Museum was great, as were the Yacht, Brayko's mansion (the paintings were cool), and the park in Taipei. Make this secret agent game happen if you can. Judging by the fact that you're saying that you were an environmental and prop artist, I take it you're not working at Obsidian?

Also is there anything else you can tell us anything about the game (random facts, design decisions) that you can discuss?

Just wanted to say that Brayko's place is fucking awesome. I loved the overall art-direction of the entire grounds, from the snowy old stone exterior to the tragically 80s interior decorating.

I made all of that 80s stuff, it was a blast :) Also the arcade machines were all me, I was disappointed that i didn't have time to make animated gameplay screens but hey - stuff takes tiiiime and I needed to make my deadlines :)

I was on AP for about 1.5 years and then I got moved over to the Aliens RPG, which was why I originally joined up with Obsidian in the 1st place (wet-dream game for a game artist to work on!) By now anyone who knows the score knows the tragic fate of Aliens and when entire projects suddenly die, they have to cut staff, so I will let you draw your own conclusions.

As for discussion regarding the production of Alpha Protocol, I've talked about it on a couple of podcasts in the past (I'm an indie developer now) and it's probably no surprise that the game had a bit of particularly hairy points over the course of it's development; anyone who paid attention to the fact that the game was in development for so long (and was postponed for release over the course of a couple of years) can probably suspect that things were troubled. I won't single out Obsidian for being at fault here, this past generation has been particularly tumultuous for many developers both smaller and larger than Obsidian, and a lot of other games and studios have been through a lot of the same political issues, things that just weren't so hard to tackle in previous generations. You used to be able to turn out a title in about a year-and-a-half, have a couple of things going on at once, if a game didn't sell at least a million you'd likely still turn a profit and not face potential studio closure. This gen brought much higher dev cycles, much bigger staff sizes, the deadly spectre of "feature creep" popped up in every game you can imagine (thank god they cut the QTE sequences from AP!) It's been a big miserable mess for everyone really. I am so much happier doing things on a smaller scale, although I do miss the electricity of working in a bigger studio and being a part of it when things just "click" (I was at Neversoft and Left Field prior to Obsidian)

Anyway long story short I had had an ass-full of the game (and it's shitty coverage in the media) when it released, but in hindsight I am proud to say I worked on Alpha Protocol and I am pleased to see it has developed a legacy of being one of the more positively memorable games of this (particularly horrible to develop for) generation :)
 
I made all of that 80s stuff, it was a blast :) Also the arcade machines were all me, I was disappointed that i didn't have time to make animated gameplay screens but hey - stuff takes tiiiime and I needed to make my deadlines :)

Nice! Well I seriously loved that place, I've commented on the decor here on several occasions. It doesn't sound like the experience was much fun but big props for working on one of the best games ever made :D

(thank god they cut the QTE sequences from AP!)

:O


YES
 

Ciastek3214

Junior Member
I made all of that 80s stuff, it was a blast :) Also the arcade machines were all me, I was disappointed that i didn't have time to make animated gameplay screens but hey - stuff takes tiiiime and I needed to make my deadlines :)

Well thank you for taking part in one of my favorite gaming moments. DAT BOSS FIGHT. So 80's. And I love 80's. Anyway you're the man.
 
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