boiled goose
good with gravy
Hey it is Sony's projection.
I am just trying to make the numbers work. haha
I am just trying to make the numbers work. haha
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Sony FY2011: $5.5B Loss; PS3 is #1 despite Thai Flood
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
michaelius
Banned
You forgot about third category - uninformed.
Like for example uninformed commenter who doesn't have access to release schedule for second half of 2012 as well as intended dates for price cuts...
UberTag
Member
Incidentally, Sony predicted a return to profit in "the next fiscal year" last May as well.
Instead they posted their worst losses yet.
I wouldn't put much stock in Sony's predictions.
Instead they posted their worst losses yet.
I wouldn't put much stock in Sony's predictions.
There was the Thai flood (which at least damaged their mobile sector), paying their way out off the Samsung LCD joint venture, buying out of Sony Ericsson and the fallout from Japan earthquake. Add to that the restructuring costs that all of the above demanded. Now I'm not defending Sony and saying that without the above all would be well, but it seems that this year's record accounting loss is simply due to a change of strategy.
MightyHedgehog
Member
At this point, I seriously wonder why anyone would own stock in this corporation.
They're not losing money on the PS3 where did you hear that?
I think one worrying thing from these results is that sony plans on shipping 16 million ps2s and ps3 together. That means that'll be only around 12-13 million ps3s and that's way too little.
PS2 will probably only sell around 2m this year, so it seems like they're forecasting flat PS3 sales. However over time sales should reduce at a certain price point, and a price reduction is required just to maintain the same level of sales, so maybe we'll see a small price reduction for PS3 this FY. I don't think they'll hit that forecast without one in the current economic climate.
timetokill
Banned
Anybody buying a Vita right now is a damned fool.
Either Sony does a price cut at E3 or shortly thereafter, or they are going to WILDLY miss that forecast. And even with the price cut they probably will miss it anyway.
Either Sony does a price cut at E3 or shortly thereafter, or they are going to WILDLY miss that forecast. And even with the price cut they probably will miss it anyway.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Vita prediction sounds like PS3 Slim prediction, which they missed by a hair. I can see Vita hitting 10m with a pricecut and a Monster Hunter game releasing this Fall, but we haven't even heard anything about that. Clearly, Soul Sacrifice is the true megaton.
TheLucifer
Member
Yep, same here.
As others said, I see that combined PSV-PSP forecast not that good, maybe the Vita pricedrop is closer than I thought. And seeing PS2 on the top always warms my heart, probably the best console I've ever had.
CadetMahoney
Member
Its all PR man. PR!
CadetMahoney
Member
It's ridiculous it might aswell be. Hai gais, 10million! sales f0rcast yea?
HoodWinked
Gold Member
Whatever Sony is on to think they can ship 16 million handhelds (PSP+Vita) next financial year, I... don't want it. Brain disease is a terrible thing.
less powerful version of the apple reality distortion field.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Price cut acts in synergy with available software. $199 + great software is better than $149 + no software. The issue is that Sony doesn't really have any confirmed blockbusters, so unless they or a 3rd party (e.g. Capcom) have something ready for this year's release, cutting price doesn't really make al lot of sense.
Well, PS2 Slim with internal PSU didn't release until a year after PS3, so a slimmer PS3 may happen eventually.
I...I did too, actually clicking the thread to see what the connection was bwahahaha.
While we probably all agree that Sony needs a pricecut to reach the sales forecast - the question is, how can they afford one, given these gigantic losses.
BTW, who did the big financial comparisons of the big three over the generation? I´d like to see an update to this.
You guys are looking at it wrong. Maybe they expect some big PSP announcements and the PSP to do 10 million or so, leaving only ~6 million for Vita.
You have to spend money to make money. That's how business works.
You have to spend money to make money. That's how business works.
michaelius
Banned
With the good deals right now in shops they are probably paying few bucks more than it would cost after price cut not a bad price for several months of fun and chance for ambassador program games
narcosis219
Member
Can someone give me a brief summary of the last... 15/20 years in terms of profit/loss? How much money were they sitting on to be able to lose so much every year and still keep going?
HoodWinked
Gold Member
ms dont even care. they spend $8.5 billion on skype. then buys patents for $1 billion then resells them at $550 million.
CadetMahoney
Member
It's likely they won't reach that forecast. Nice try at making it look like I'm the one with the unrealistic expectations here, but to each their own.
test_account
XP-39C²
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3jc_3p0YZY
I'm wondering why they are so bullish about the 16 million number though. I think there is a reason why they believe in this number, especially after seeing the first months Vita sales.
I'm wondering why they are so bullish about the 16 million number though. I think there is a reason why they believe in this number, especially after seeing the first months Vita sales.
Psychotext ran the thread, but ever since Microsoft and Sony bundled their gaming divisions into other consumer electronics divisions, so far as their accounting/fiscal reports go, it became largely pointless to keep a running tally.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
I didn't say their PS3 business is unprofitable; I just mentioned that one of the reasons they gave for the $2.8 billion loss and decreased revenue for the CPS division was a PS3 price cut. I should have explained that clearly.
So the thing is, are they in a position to drop Vita's price, or even the PS3's price? It doesn't seem like they will meet their 10 million projection for Vita unless they have something big planned at E3.
Sure thing. But you gotta have money to be able to spend it, no?
They still have 25-35 billion+ in the bank. A Kinect style 500 million loss on advertising and price dropping will not kill them.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
TVs lost the most money (seriously, a lot of fucking money), and there is a $3.8bn non-cash tax credit writedown included in the headline loss. There were also a bunch of non-cash charges related to the S-LCD sale and shutdown:
"The CPS segment operating results include a total loss of 60.0 billion yen (732 million U.S. dollars) including a 63.4 billion yen (773 million U.S. dollars) impairment loss on Sonys shares of S-LCD, which were sold in January 2012, and subsequent foreign currency adjustments. Further, the segment operating results include additional LCD panel related expenses of 22.8 billion yen (278 million U.S. dollars) resulting from low capacity utilization of S-LCD, LCD television asset impairment of 16.7 billion yen (204 million U.S. dollars)"
So of the $2.8bn lost in the division, around $1.2bn is non-cash. The rest, however, is a real loss and Kaz needs to fix the TV division this year.
Sony also made $1.6bn in banking and finance. A friend of mine who worked for Nomura was recently recruited by Sony. He thinks that Sony is looking at beefing up it's finance division and by the end of 2020, Sony will be a financial services company (banking, insurance) with a sideline in phones and games, he may have been joking...
Overall, Sony are in poor shape, but it is not terminal. Not yet at least. There needs to be a huge shakeup by Kaz and a huge reassessment of what he thinks Sony in the 21st century actually is. Is it a consumer electronics company, a consumer services company, a financial services company? I have yet to see a solid answer on this question. If Kaz can come up with a decent one then Sony will get back to black. Overall there is value in the company, and in a baseline year with no external shocks they have around $1.5bn in profits per year, which is not really good enough for a company the size of Sony. Kaz needs to look at increasing the net profit margin to 9-12% by 2014/15 which means aggressive cost cutting and a slimmed down product line which is more focussed.
A shame. Maybe this could be factored in somehow.
Or at least this graph could be updated:
Do you see this happening? He´s a product of Sony´s company culture, can you envision him shaking things up completely? A task, that even Sir Howard as an outsider couldn´t get done.
I´d like to believe, but I have yet to see Kaz give a comprehensive, and financially backed, vision how to transform Sony.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
The 3DS didn't even get the number or perhaps barely and that was after a $80 price cut 2 mario's and MH in Japan and the Vita's barely doing half as well as the 3ds is at launch. The reason why people say they are bullshit, is because unless, the Vita jumps up to doing far better than the 3DS is now, (and it's currently doing god awful anywhere bar maybe america), then it's just not possible. Not even an $80 price would make them do those numbers, unless COD Vita becomes a phenomenon and becomes the next mario.
They didn't even release the Vita's numbers for this fiscal quarter...
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Vita to drop to $179.99 this Summer with a memory card included pls? Damnit Sony, do it.
I hope they have some major plans for Vita to succeed - they can't keep their pricing model as it is right now.
I hope they have some major plans for Vita to succeed - they can't keep their pricing model as it is right now.
grimshawish
Banned
Cutting the price of a console and then seeing its hardware sales fall...not great is it?
Opus Angelorum
Member
Hang on, no Vita numbers at all? Not even shipped?
Have I missed something?
Have I missed something?
A shame. Maybe this could be factored in somehow.
Or at least this graph could be updated:
Do you see this happening? He´s a product of Sony´s company culture, can you envision him shaking things up completely? A task, that even Sir Howard as an outsider couldn´t get done.
I´d like to believe, but I have yet to see Kaz give a comprehensive, and financially backed, vision how to transform Sony.
.
I'd like to see Sony TV/phones make a resurgence. Nothing good comes out Samsung dominating so heavily.*
*speaking as a gamer, I need Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo to stay financially healthy I suppose.
Psychotext
Member
I wonder what parts of the company they're planning on selling.
Maybe they are hoping to sell in the west with CoD and Assassin's Creed.
I hope the Vita components drop their price fast enough.
