You seem to overestimate what developers think is important. If they have the choice to go for either double the frame rate or double the graphical fidelity they will mostly choose the latter. Because ultimately the customer buys the game that looks twice or thrice as good and not the game that runs at 60 fps. Yes, programmers might be more willing to go for 60 fps but games are developed by many people. Including 3d artists that just hate to sacrifice quality for speed.
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Xbox World Rumor: Xbox 720 Devkit Specs Detailed, Includes 16-Core Processor
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You seem to overestimate what developers think is important. If they have the choice to go for either double the frame rate or double the graphical fidelity they will mostly choose the latter. Because ultimately the customer buys the game that looks twice or thrice as good and not the game that runs at 60 fps. Yes, programmers might be more willing to go for 60 fps but games are developed by many people. Including 3d artists that just hate to sacrifice quality for speed.
People act as if frame rate and 'beauty' are mutually exclusive. They're not, they are intrinsically linked.
Rage is a good example, as someone just mentioned. For me, Rage on 360 is orders of magnitude better looking than, say, Bioshock, simply because of the smoothness in motion.
Rage is a good example, as someone just mentioned. For me, Rage on 360 is orders of magnitude better looking than, say, Bioshock, simply because of the smoothness in motion.
Games are marketed to 30fps or less video and games are sold by screenshots.
The only hope we have for a more widely adopted and accepted use of higher frame rates on consoles will be if we start seeing more 48fps movies.
If Sony pictures start using it , it means Sony can peddle us new 48fps compatible Blu ray players and TVs.
If they are trying to peddle us new AV equiptenent you can bet your money Sony will be all over that as the defining feature of Ps4.
The do love their cross promotion, it's super annoying and predictable though.
The only hope we have for a more widely adopted and accepted use of higher frame rates on consoles will be if we start seeing more 48fps movies.
If Sony pictures start using it , it means Sony can peddle us new 48fps compatible Blu ray players and TVs.
If they are trying to peddle us new AV equiptenent you can bet your money Sony will be all over that as the defining feature of Ps4.
The do love their cross promotion, it's super annoying and predictable though.
They are linked , but the suggestion that improved framerate is the single defining aspect of a beautiful game is pretty absurd.
Which would be the better looking game if they we're both running at 60fps?
Game 1 : Crysis : Everything Maxed out, at 1920x1080
Game 2 : Crysis : 800x640 everything turned down to low. No AA
I just got messaged this. I haven't laugh so hard in a long time. 4.2 Teraflops? Really?
http://pastebin.com/N8rXsnxr
http://pastebin.com/N8rXsnxr
Honestly, who knows what to believe any more. It sounds fucking ludicrous. Up top. Both machines will be close to 2.5 teraflops, Bluray XL for sure, both will do 4k, and I would be surprised if Sony didn't start charging for online.
I don't think they will,it's one of ps3's major USP's.
The one thing that sounds very true about this Pastebin is the Windows 8 synching. Microsoft is wise to make Windows 8 be the harbinger of everything. It's probably the most clever way of getting people to buy Windows Phones, Windows 8, and use Windows tablets.
The most disappointing news is Japan not caring about the Dualshock
. dafuck sony.IMO, anything stronger than 2T will be totally OK with me, 3T+ will be really powerfull, and 4T+ will be only in 200W+ machines that use Radeon 8000 tech.
But when you look at it, Radeons 8000 will come out in Feb/March 2013... more than enough time before the earliest target time for new consoles [late 2013]. Radeon 9000 tech however will come out in early 2014, and will be fully HSA compatible. I dont see that coming to consoles.
But when you look at it, Radeons 8000 will come out in Feb/March 2013... more than enough time before the earliest target time for new consoles [late 2013]. Radeon 9000 tech however will come out in early 2014, and will be fully HSA compatible. I dont see that coming to consoles.
What do you mean by not caring?they care too much for it to change it.The one thing that sounds very true about this Pastebin is the Windows 8 synching. Microsoft is wise to make Windows 8 be the harbinger of everything. It's probably the most clever way of getting people to buy Windows Phones, Windows 8, and use Windows tablets.
The most disappointing news is Japan not caring about the Dualshock
Sony is really insane to wait till Fall of 2014. I think the memory garbage has to do with 3D stacking. Microsoft launching early 2014 sounds like baloney too. Christmas 2013 for them.
CambriaRising
Member
Bologna*
The 9000 series will only make sense if Sony launches Fall of 2014. I guess thats where the Pastbin stems from. Isn't 9000 series supposed to be a architecture change? 20 nm?
The problem is that all games will be geared for 720 instead of Sony's monster if they launch it in 2014. Some minor improvements in texture quality and effects in multiplatform releases won't earn Sony more customers. MS are right in their intention to make XBOX more service-oriented.
Dark times ahead....
Dark times ahead....
Canis lupus
Member
What has that to do with my quote? I have been doing nothing other than saying next consoles will be 1080p here.
There are indeed reports that 9000 series [Volcanic Islands] will be manufactured in 20nm, and their successor [Pirate Islands] will be either in 20 or 14nm.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-nex...aled-2013-2014-2015-gpus-get-names/17154.html
Honestly, I think Sony is banking on First Party to show off the console. The 9000 series architecture though is what is interesting. Thats almost twice the performance. We might see games running in 720p on the nextbox, and 1080p on the PS4. You are right though, shit won't make a difference. They should allocate more RAM to the OS and get Google to help the fuck in, or shit will go sour fast.
CambriaRising
Member
There is no universe where this comes true. Orbis will not use the 9000 chipset.
CambriaRising
Member
I want to believe
Get yourself a Pc with a GTX 690 and you will likely have performance parity to whatever the 9000 ends up being
Many current console games that are made for 720p look absolutley gorgeous on PC. Dont worry about that.
Can anyone found those dev shots of Uncharted 3, desert village scene that is rendered in >1080p? All the assets are the same as in PS3 version, but bump in resolution makes the game looks magnificent.
yeah, their first-party titles aren't enough to earn them majority of the market. They might help to tip the balance but not win most people unless they will make something incredibly popular like Call of Duty or GTA.
But on the other hand MS services and subscription will be useless (most likely) outside US so we might see more regional polarization next gen.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
A 4Teraflop console with 5GB of GDDR5 or better RAM, running on an HD 9000 architecture? That would be what, 20x the performance of the PS3? Stretching the limits of credibility quite a bit there.
clearly written by a tard. simply stupid
That would be enough to get my hyped for new consoles lol. As in day -165 waiting over night in the rain for a preorder.
eso76
Member
60fps were only semi-standard in the arcades, for various reasons.
They never were at home.
Actually, ironically they were in the 8bit days, but they haven't been since then and not for technical reasons:
There was never any technical reason preventing 60fps to become a standard this or previous gens.
The point is 30 fps is still playable and 'good enough' for most genres (and just got 'better' with current gen motion blur which should further improve nextgen) and regardless of the power of a console, halving the framerate will free a lot of resources devs can choose to use elsewhere. This will always be the case and 60 fps will never be standard
UNLESS
given how 30 fps is (and WILL be) the minimum acceptable standard:
1) by targeting 1080p (30fps) you can maybe expect most games to run at 60fps when displayed in 720p ?
2) with every game being 3d (not even sure about that) you can maybe expect some games to run at twice the framerate when displayed in 2d ?
3) and most realistic would be devs coming up with a 'natural motion' type of algorythm interpolating frames to give you the illusion of 60fps like modern tv's do. Making 30fps 'look like' 60 with a fraction of the resources (and tons of artifacts) is really your only chance of 60fps becoming standard.
AstroNut325
Member
Ditto... To the MAX.
Someone in the other thread is claiming there is validity to the Sony specs and that Sony is mandating 60 fps in First Party titles for next gen :-O.
the media focus thing on Xbox I don't get. You can do that on a $99 roku/appleTV or built into most new TVs, bluray players etc. Its a given. I don't care how well you integrate it, you aren't charging me for access to free streaming services or double charging me for paid content. Not again
that rumour sounds like Sony are focused more on games, which suggests less on media. But they aren't mutually exclusive
that rumour sounds like Sony are focused more on games, which suggests less on media. But they aren't mutually exclusive
gaming_noob
Member
You're easily dismissing rumors of Xbox being more powerful and easily gullible for the opposite. wtf man...
BUT, I would LOVE for it to happen
why would you throw away an advantage? If you're twice as powerful, why limit your graphics by forcing 60fps, when MS can go 30fps and have screenshots that look as good?
Easier asset creation in an environment of unfinished SDK/HW/OS. Make something "good enough" and slap it in 60fps game.
BruiserBear
Banned
If I'm being completely honest, anyone who thinks "Oh, next gen will almost certainly bring more 60fps games" doesn't really understand game development.
Every generation of consoles have brought much more power to the development table, and yet 60fps games have certainly not become any more common. In fact, they've becomes less common.
Every generation of consoles have brought much more power to the development table, and yet 60fps games have certainly not become any more common. In fact, they've becomes less common.
didn't Wii and GC have more 60fps games than 360/PS3? Its much more down to the attitude of the publisher than what technology is inside the box.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I really doubt it, if only because of the number of PSN/XBLA and sports games.
While I agree with you that framerate should be considered part of the graphical makeup, the issue here is you can't show off 60fps in PR screenshots.
the media focus thing on Xbox I don't get. You can do that on a $99 roku/appleTV or built into most new TVs, bluray players etc. Its a given. I don't care how well you integrate it, you aren't charging me for access to free streaming services or double charging me for paid content. Not again
that rumour sounds like Sony are focused more on games, which suggests less on media. But they aren't mutually exclusive
My thoughts exactly. I don't understand why people think one company is going in this direction and not the other. Both companies will be pursuing this market and it only makes sense to do so. I also don't understand why some think the gaming side has to suffer by going after this market. It's entirely possible to create a system that support multi-media functions while also being well equipped to handle gaming. Just look at the ps360. =)
BruiserBear
Banned
I'm not sure that's true, but I pretty much said "it's not about the technology inside the box" in my post. Each generation has more powerful consoles, and yet we're not seeing more 60fps games as a result.
Yet, without fail, every single time new consoles arrive some people start talking about how all games are gonna run at 60fps.
McHuj
Member
Whatever the 9xxx series architecture is, it's probably been in development since a year or two now. With a major revision, not an evolution like 7000->8000, it may take around 2 years or more to develop something new from the ground up. The development for that may have started as early as 2011. It wouldn't surprise me if they were taping out internal prototypes and test chips this year.
Likewise, it wouldn't surprise me if the bulk of the work on 8xxx series has been done for many months (regardless when it actually comes out).
The part I'm most skeptical about is the 20nm process. I don't believe it will be ready for consumer products (high volume) by the end of next year.
eso76
Member
it might be true but it won't last.
i remember the ps2 launching with several 60fps titles, in fact i remember it being almost 'standard' in its early days, so maybe that was their idea even back then.
But when other devs start showing better looking 30fps games most people won't notice/care they're running at half the framerate, and i'm sure Sony wouldn't want their 60fps Uncharted to look worse than the new 30fps Gears of War or Tomb Raider.
I'm sure they'll backpedal on mandatory features just like everyone did with 720p.
It's still gonna be on the market almost twenty years after PS3 was designed so it's not that far fetched. The original 360 used almost 200 Watts, there is a lot of power to be had for that wattage these days.
CadetMahoney
Member
While I agree with you that framerate should be considered part of the graphical makeup, the issue here is you can't show off 60fps in PR screenshots.
Which is why I generally never take too much heed of screenshots as a mark of graphics. Especially the PR bullshots, out-of-game angles etc.
The worst case scenario (for me) is if they're both on parity, nothing really different, so lame nothing interesting. Third parties just using it as a port base to maximise sales just like this gen.
McHuj
Member
I'm not sure how much they can own of an x86 design, though, Intel has a bunch of say in that as well due to all their patents and licensing. The GPU IP, they should be able to own.
Even if the similarities go only as far as x86 CPU with AMD GPU with similar RAM. It will be a lot closer than the two current gen systems and a lot easier to port.
Didn't Sony also originally say this about the PS3?
PuppetMaster
Member
Saying the durango kits were out first discredits the whole story.
Who cares about consumers? They're after the Master Race. We spend that kind of money on video cards alone