• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

DRUDGE SIREN TIME: Germany To Pursue Criminal Prosecution Of Rumsfeld

Status
Not open for further replies.

goodcow

Member
siren.gif
siren.gif
siren.gif

GERMANY TO PURSUE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OF RUMSFELD OVER PRISON ABUSE
siren.gif
siren.gif
siren.gif


http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1557842,00.html

Friday, Nov. 10, 2006
Charges Sought Against Rumsfeld Over Prison Abuse
Exclusive: A lawsuit in Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the former Defense Secretary and other U.S. officials for their alleged role in abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo
By ADAM ZAGORIN

Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called "20th hijacker" and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a "special interrogation plan," personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs say that one of the witnesses who will testify on their behalf is former Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the one-time commander of all U.S. military prisons in Iraq. Karpinski — who the lawyers say will be in Germany next week to publicly address her accusations in the case — has issued a written statement to accompany the legal filing, which says, in part: "It was clear the knowledge and responsibility [for what happened at Abu Ghraib] goes all the way to the top of the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld ."

A spokesperson for the Pentagon told TIME there would be no comment since the case has not yet been filed.

Along with Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Tenet, the other defendants in the case are Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone; former assistant attorney general Jay Bybee; former deputy assisant attorney general John Yoo; General Counsel for the Department of Defense William James Haynes II; and David S. Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff. Senior military officers named in the filing are General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top Army official in Iraq; Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander of Guantanamo; senior Iraq commander, Major General Walter Wojdakowski; and Col. Thomas Pappas, the one-time head of military intelligence at Abu Ghraib.

Germany was chosen for the court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction" allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world. Indeed, a similar, but narrower, legal action was brought in Germany in 2004, which also sought the prosecution of Rumsfeld. The case provoked an angry response from Pentagon, and Rumsfeld himself was reportedly upset. Rumsfeld's spokesman at the time, Lawrence DiRita, called the case a "a big, big problem." U.S. officials made clear the case could adversely impact U.S.-Germany relations, and Rumsfeld indicated he would not attend a major security conference in Munich, where he was scheduled to be the keynote speaker, unless Germany disposed of the case. The day before the conference, a German prosecutor announced he would not pursue the matter, saying there was no indication that U.S. authorities and courts would not deal with allegations in the complaint.

In bringing the new case, however, the plaintiffs argue that circumstances have changed in two important ways. Rumsfeld's resignation, they say, means that the former Defense Secretary will lose the legal immunity usually accorded high government officials. Moreover, the plaintiffs argue that the German prosecutor's reasoning for rejecting the previous case — that U.S. authorities were dealing with the issue — has been proven wrong.

"The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany. He also notes that the Military Commissions Act, a law passed by Congress earlier this year, effectively blocks prosecution in the U.S. of those involved in detention and interrogation abuses of foreigners held abroad in American custody going to back to Sept. 11, 2001. As a result, Ratner contends, the legal arguments underlying the German prosecutor's previous inaction no longer hold up.

Whatever the legal merits of the case, it is the latest example of efforts in Western Europe by critics of U.S. tactics in the war on terror to call those involved to account in court. In Germany, investigations are underway in parliament concerning cooperation between the CIA and German intelligence on rendition — the kidnapping of suspected terrorists and their removal to third countries for interrogation. Other legal inquiries involving rendition are underway in both Italy and Spain.

U.S. officials have long feared that legal proceedings against "war criminals" could be used to settle political scores. In 1998, for example, former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet — whose military coup was supported by the Nixon administration — was arrested in the U.K. and held for 16 months in an extradition battle led by a Spanish magistrate seeking to charge him with war crimes. He was ultimately released and returned to Chile. More recently, a Belgian court tried to bring charges against then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for alleged crimes against Palestinians.

For its part, the Bush administration has rejected adherence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) on grounds that it could be used to unjustly prosecute U.S. officials. The ICC is the first permanent tribunal established to prosecute war crimes, genocide and other crimes against humanity.
 

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
Thus ends the US's relationship with Germany. There is no way the administration would extradite even former administration staff to Germany for this. Not a chance. I doubt it'd be allowed even if a Democrat becomes President in 2008. If ANYTHING ever happens to Rumsfeld or any of the named defendants, it'll be done in a United States court.

This isn't bravado or "USA rules the world" talk. Since when can (former) leaders of a country that has not been defeated in war be tried in a different country for war crimes? Is there even precedent for this?
 

xBigDanx

Member
SteveMeister said:
This isn't bravado or "USA rules the world" talk. Since when can (former) leaders of a country that has not been defeated in war be tried in a different country for war crimes? Is there even precedent for this?

Well considering the fact that we are..... being defeated in Iraq, I don't quite see your point. Even Baker is saying that victory is not an option anymore.
 

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I see this as a positive step. Of course it won't have any actual effect on Rumsfeld, but I think countries would be better off with some principle behind their actions, rather than a very compromised approach that will do anything for political gain.
 

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
xBigDanx said:
Well considering the fact that we are..... being defeated in Iraq, I don't quite see your point. Even Baker is saying that victory is not an option anymore.

No, I mean the US has not been defeated, occupied, its leaders deposed and arrested. That's generally when government leaders have been tried for war crimes in the past.
 

APF

Member
Horst: [threatingly] We Germans aren't all smiles und sunshine.
Burns: [recoils in mock horror]
Oooh, the Germans are mad at me. I'm so scared! Oooh, the Germans!
[hiding behind Smithers] Uh oh, the Germans are going to get me!
Horst: Stop it!
Man 2: Stop, sir.
Burns: Don't let the Germans come after me.
Oh no, the Germans are coming after me.
Man 2: Please stop the `pretending you are scared' game, please.
Horst: Stop it! Stop it!
Burns: [brief pause, then resumes]
No! They're so big and strong!
Man 2: Stop it.
Horst: Stop it, Mr. Burns.
Man 2: Please stop pretending you are scared of us, please, now.
Burns: Oh, protect me from the Germans! The Germans...
Horst: Burns, STOP IT!
-- ``Burns Verkaufen der Kraftwerk''
 

Tamanon

Banned
German law provides Universal Jurisdiction? And people were mad at us for being the "world's policeman":lol :lol
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
A passive voice headline and passive voice lead? Those are major journalistic taboos. I'm shocked to see Time magzine do that. And of course Drudge makes it worse. That story is poorly written and implies some official state action by Germany that no German offical has taken yet.

I don't know anything about the German legal system, but apparently these plaintiffs are seeking some sort of hearing asking that a German prosecutor to indict Rumsfeld et al for war crimes. So it is international NGOs seeking for a German prosecutor to indict American government officials in Germany on behalf of Iraqis and Saudis for abuse that happened in Cuba and Iraq. There are many practical difficulties with that process.

In related news, HDNET shows Hogan's Heroes now. Only America would wage total war on a country, finance its reconstruction after unconditional surrender, and make a sitcom that pokes light fun at how that country had been the personification of evil during wartime. That show is legitimately hiliarious, even if you've seen that creepy movie on HBO about the guy that played Hogan.
 
Uhm, this suit isn't being brought by the government of Germany; in fact, the suit hasn't even been filed yet. 11 Iraqis and 1 Saudi brought the suit foward because evidently, Germany has pretty lax regulations on these types of suits. But they're usually tossed out. Typical of Druge to sensationalize, though.
 

Jacobi

Banned
Tamanon said:
German law provides Universal Jurisdiction? And people were mad at us for being the "world's policeman":lol :lol
The USA kidnapped Germans and held them in Guantanamo recently. They are also torturing people in Germany.
 

FightyF

Banned
There has to be some accountability. Under Rumsfeld's direction, there are countless innocent people that have been tortured.

For those not agreeing with this, I ask you: Who should be accountable?
 
Jacobi said:
The USA kidnapped Germans and held them in Guantanamo recently. They are also torturing people in Germany.
Prove it! HA-HA!

YakiSOBA said:
nothing will come out of this, the usa can do whatever she damn hell pleases and no one will ever stop her
And thank God for that! If it was up to the rest of the world, nothing would ever get done!
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
The only realistic way to get accountability from Rumsfeld directly would be for German commandos (are they allowed to have commandos?) to kidnap him and whisk him away to Germany for trial. Ironic isn't it?
 

APF

Member
I feel tortured whenever I read a FFF post can I get some sort of retribution or do I need like a commando squad or something? On that note, why don't commandos use underwear? Is that like a macho thing because it seems kinda you know to me
 

yilmazz

Member
Some people shoud get some information before posting dumb posts. And stop whining about how mean Europeans are when they dare to congratulate the US for finally making the right choice, while some of you are full of shit regarding their attitude towards other countries themselves.
 

OnkelC

Hail to the Chef
ronito said:
Germany, please don't tell me you're this dumb.

OnkleC, You have some 'splainin to do!

As long as Rumsfeld is not prosecuted by the UN tribunal, there is positively no possibility for a legal action against him in the German legal system. A thing like "worldwide war crime prosecution" does not exist in German law. A lawsuit can, of course, be filed, but would be dismissed because of this lack of laws.

I would call "Bullshit" or "PR stunt" on this action.

The Federal Supreme Court just dismissed a file from victims of an air raid during the Kosovo war.
http://www.dw-world.com/dw/article/0,2144,2223146,00.html

Concerning the German Guantanamo inmate, read this before posting further comments on this subject, plese. It has been quite a topic over here, but I could understand if it was not the headline in the US of A:
http://www.dw-world.com/dw/article/0,2144,1900697,00.html

http://www.dw-world.com/dw/article/0,2144,2148394,00.html

http://www.dw-world.com/dw/article/0,2144,2208501,00.html
 

FightyF

Banned
APF said:
I feel tortured whenever I read a FFF post can I get some sort of retribution or do I need like a commando squad or something? On that note, why don't commandos use underwear? Is that like a macho thing because it seems kinda you know to me

It's the logic. It grates your brain and delivers the pain.

Hence, you could not answer the question.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom