Why bother with a rebuttal when you can simply dismiss your opponents out of hand? I wonder if clifford has considered a career in politics.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Jim Sterling: An industry that needs Xbox One DRM is a failed industry
- Thread starter AuthenticM
- Start date
Why bother with a rebuttal when you can simply dismiss your opponents out of hand? I wonder if clifford has considered a career in politics.
That what i was saying on twitter also. I am ok with this.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
This article made my day. And when I look at what Sony is trying to do moving forward I feel a little less frightened by the unknown of the future for gaming.
lastflowers
Banned
I agree, but would still have rather had the xbox team go ahead with digital libraries because I think that benefits the average gamer. There is a false equivalency that comes up frequently regarding digital rights. It can help curb the used game industry, which I think publishers should try to curb. By offering value in return, they should have every right to try and fight used game sales. They should be working with Sony and Nintendo and MS to develop alternatives and compromises in other areas that benefit the gamer. Digital libraries make that compromise a little easier (imo, feel free to disagree).
My only issue with the previous xbox scheme was 24 hour ping (reduce that to once a week or give the option to dedicate an 'offline' period where none of your cd keys can be resold/traded until that period is over and disk must be in the drive), and I would have liked a 'lend a game to a friend for a week'. I thought the family sharing would suffice for the latter, but it appears not if it's a one-time 60 minute demo.
I think a digital library is far superior to a physical library, and MS at least was attempting to mix the benefit of both together while instilling a horrible negative. Along with that negative came the inherent distrust that publishers would allow used games (one of the positives of physical), making the deal raw for the average GAFer. Can't blame 'em, The xbox team completely failed to outline a crystal clear policy to show benefits and assure them (and possibly they couldn't!) that any rights they give up or loosen are clearly given back in other ways.
Now, I hope the xbox team continues to refine their previous digital library services, but I think it's shelved completely now that they've removed the online ping. All hope for revolutions in that area are probably shelved. I guess I'll got back to buying steam games.
My only issue with the previous xbox scheme was 24 hour ping (reduce that to once a week or give the option to dedicate an 'offline' period where none of your cd keys can be resold/traded until that period is over and disk must be in the drive), and I would have liked a 'lend a game to a friend for a week'. I thought the family sharing would suffice for the latter, but it appears not if it's a one-time 60 minute demo.
I think a digital library is far superior to a physical library, and MS at least was attempting to mix the benefit of both together while instilling a horrible negative. Along with that negative came the inherent distrust that publishers would allow used games (one of the positives of physical), making the deal raw for the average GAFer. Can't blame 'em, The xbox team completely failed to outline a crystal clear policy to show benefits and assure them (and possibly they couldn't!) that any rights they give up or loosen are clearly given back in other ways.
Now, I hope the xbox team continues to refine their previous digital library services, but I think it's shelved completely now that they've removed the online ping. All hope for revolutions in that area are probably shelved. I guess I'll got back to buying steam games.
Lysander518
Banned
I'm not sure what this guy was trying to get at at the end. When did any game company claim that it was entitled to it's own existence? MS and every other businesses try to anticipate the market and provide a product that will generate the most profit. MS didn't do a very good job of anticipating the market. If a console with DRM generates more profit then it is a superior product.
CambriaRising
Member
Also kept insisting that MGS4 would come to 360.
FateBreaker
Member
How is that in absolutely any way different than your sir Jim is doing?
The link should be in the OP. This article deserves to get hits, and so do all his latest articles and jimquisitions.
http://www.destructoid.com/an-indus...ailed-industry-256643.phtml#comment-936586952
http://www.destructoid.com/an-indus...ailed-industry-256643.phtml#comment-936586952
Jim Sterling
Member
I never said that even once. I'd only just been hired by Destructoid when whoever said that thing said it. It was someone else who isn't on staff now.
And to correct some of the other things: I ain't given no COD a 10/10, nor did I say Modern Warfare 3 was innovative while criticizing Mario Kart 7 for not being innovative. I said MW3, while retreading old ground, was still the best in its league, while MK7 was a step down for the series and had been eclipsed by other kart racers. You may disagree with those assessments, but I'm glad to be disagreed with. I just don't wanna be misrepresented.
Oh, also Jim Sterling is not a fictional character in Mad Men. He is a fictional character in Leverage.
That said, really glad y'all dug the article today, and my recent work in general. It's heartening to know this stuff is resonating, as it's stuff I care deeply about.
Jake Tower
Banned
There's nothing stopping MS from offering all the sweet benefits for digital purchases.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
He started talking about the business and meta of video games in addition to reviewing. It's one of those "It never needed defending from lies and hyperbole before, but now it does" things.
Castle Doctrine
Member
Publishers want to transition to digital and keep prices the same as physical. They're drooling over the prospect. What's so great about digital without a lower price? The value of "convenience" (laziness IMO) is lower than the value of owning, trading, lending, selling, and collecting.
As I said in another thread, day one digital copies should be cheaper than physical copies, period. They're worth less, nothing but nebulous data on a hard drive somewhere taking up room, worth nothing after you're bored with the game.
Sony, being that they're in a consumer love fest right now, should take the lead and make first party digital games $10 cheaper than the physical copy at retail. Pissing off retail? Who's more important, the retail partner or the consumer? For the "new" Sony, the answer should be the consumer. Screw retail, they're selling a more valuable product, and if people buy less there, too bad.
Diablo Rosso
Member
Everyone knows Crash Team Racing is the best kart racer ever.I never said that even once. I'd only just been hired by Destructoid when whoever said that thing said it. It was someone else who isn't on staff now.
And to correct some of the other things: I ain't given no COD a 10/10, nor did I say Modern Warfare 3 was innovative while criticizing Mario Kart 7 for not being innovative. I said MW3, while retreading old ground, was still the best in its league, while MK7 was a step down for the series and had been eclipsed by other kart racers. You may disagree with those assessments, but I'm glad to be disagreed with. I just don't wanna be misrepresented.
Oh, also Jim Sterling is not a fictional character in Mad Men. He is a fictional character in Leverage.
That said, really glad y'all dug the article today, and my recent work in general. It's heartening to know this stuff is resonating, as it's stuff I care deeply about.
SneakyStephan
Banned
I agree with everything except:
Ahahahahah.
Theglasses DRM , they do nothing.
Well mario kart got surpassed way back with crash team racing... and never managed to catch up to that one game.
Also collarduty (cos it has a dog, get it) will never be anything but a poor man's counterstrike.
Still suffers from the same old problems (broken spawn system, bullethose weapons, bad gunplay, tiny maps that with a few exceptions -there are some good cod maps- have no interesting design gameplay wise)
It has also regressed since cod 4 since they took out mod support, ranked dedicated servers etc etc. It doesn't even compare favorably to its own past iterations.
On topic: good article though.
And kudos for managing to make a living off of representing the gamer and the consumer, a rarity in your line of work.
Ahahahahah.
The
I never said that even once. I'd only just been hired by Destructoid when whoever said that thing said it. It was someone else who isn't on staff now.
And to correct some of the other things: I ain't given no COD a 10/10, nor did I say Modern Warfare 3 was innovative while criticizing Mario Kart 7 for not being innovative. I said MW3, while retreading old ground, was still the best in its league, while MK7 was a step down for the series and had been eclipsed by other kart racers. You may disagree with those assessments, but I'm glad to be disagreed with. I just don't wanna be misrepresented.
Oh, also Jim Sterling is not a fictional character in Mad Men. He is a fictional character in Leverage.
That said, really glad y'all dug the article today, and my recent work in general. It's heartening to know this stuff is resonating, as it's stuff I care deeply about.
Well mario kart got surpassed way back with crash team racing... and never managed to catch up to that one game.
Also collarduty (cos it has a dog, get it) will never be anything but a poor man's counterstrike.
Still suffers from the same old problems (broken spawn system, bullethose weapons, bad gunplay, tiny maps that with a few exceptions -there are some good cod maps- have no interesting design gameplay wise)
It has also regressed since cod 4 since they took out mod support, ranked dedicated servers etc etc. It doesn't even compare favorably to its own past iterations.
On topic: good article though.
And kudos for managing to make a living off of representing the gamer and the consumer, a rarity in your line of work.
Jake Tower
Banned
It's true.
'It's as protected from piracy as it's gonna get, which is not at all.'
The existence of Steam does not make it any harder to pirate games. It is trivially easy to do so. And yet, Steam is successful. Why is that I wonder?
I never said that even once. I'd only just been hired by Destructoid when whoever said that thing said it. It was someone else who isn't on staff now.
And to correct some of the other things: I ain't given no COD a 10/10, nor did I say Modern Warfare 3 was innovative while criticizing Mario Kart 7 for not being innovative. I said MW3, while retreading old ground, was still the best in its league, while MK7 was a step down for the series and had been eclipsed by other kart racers. You may disagree with those assessments, but I'm glad to be disagreed with. I just don't wanna be misrepresented.
Oh, also Jim Sterling is not a fictional character in Mad Men. He is a fictional character in Leverage.
That said, really glad y'all dug the article today, and my recent work in general. It's heartening to know this stuff is resonating, as it's stuff I care deeply about.
i thought i was the only person that watched Leverage
Jim Sterling
Member
Like I said. It's as protected from piracy as it's gonna get.
NullPointer
Member
God damn it Jim. Every fucking time.
Bravo.
Does this industry have anybody besides Cliffy that can offer full-throated rebuttals?
SneakyStephan
Banned
Like I said. It's as protected from piracy as it's gonna get.
Ah, I didn't know you implied that.
Clever. I thought it seemed out of place with my interpretation.
This motherfucker can sit on a torch. What a clueless, sad human.
Bravo jim and joe!
lastflowers
Banned
Yes there is. The PR damage is done. If they said 'oh but digital offerings still require pings', they'd be buried again. Your mindset is wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong. Ping is required for the digital stuff they've offered.
What is this crazy assumption? I want the benefit of buying physical disks and the benefit of a digital library. Xbox's plan was very steam-esque (though the ping of course is not, and is shitty), where you could buy your digital copy in many different locations. Retailers have to fight for your dollar, but you get the benefit of a digital copy with a physical download vector. Fucking awesome.
I definitely agree digital (only) purchases should be cheaper than physical + digital activation, as you are giving up rights. The proposed plan was seemingly a mix of both. I could go to target a week afterwards and get 2 for 1 deals or a new game for 37$ a couple of weeks later, but have the awesome benefit of being able to install from disk. For people that want to go digital only, the reversal has ruined potential innovation (whether they had it or not is a whole different story esp. after the truthfact about the sharing plan
).Because of the reversal and removal of the online ping, all potential digital sharing will be shelved for a while (I'm speculating) because any return to online checks would receive such hardcore outlash from GAF and reddit and the general consumer even if it is beneficial to their digital only purchases. Digital Rights for downloadable titles 'lending, sharing, trading' will be shelved for the forseeable future for everyone but steam. This is making me be a 90% steam purchaser for another generation, when I'd rather play a lot of games on my 60inch plasma with surround sound rather than in front of my monitor--and no, fuck kb/m or controller with big picture...I've done it and don't like it.
Sony led the charge with digital stuff because the PSPGo really was a fucking awesome device. The Vita even more so despite its horrible Mem policies.
Thank God for Jim.
I used scowl at the people wanting the 'market' to crash, but these days bleh. Games aren't going to disappear, but big publishers and the AAA market can fall on its ass. In a way, they've done more damage to themselves in this social media age then any competitor ever could. We know who the dicktossers and bullshitters are.
I never said that even once. I'd only just been hired by Destructoid when whoever said that thing said it. It was someone else who isn't on staff now.
And to correct some of the other things: I ain't given no COD a 10/10, nor did I say Modern Warfare 3 was innovative while criticizing Mario Kart 7 for not being innovative. I said MW3, while retreading old ground, was still the best in its league, while MK7 was a step down for the series and had been eclipsed by other kart racers. You may disagree with those assessments, but I'm glad to be disagreed with. I just don't wanna be misrepresented.
Oh, also Jim Sterling is not a fictional character in Mad Men. He is a fictional character in Leverage.
That said, really glad y'all dug the article today, and my recent work in general. It's heartening to know this stuff is resonating, as it's stuff I care deeply about.
Thank Jim for God!
You are absolutely on fire lately! Keep it up!
lastflowers
Banned
I never said that even once. I'd only just been hired by Destructoid when whoever said that thing said it. It was someone else who isn't on staff now.
And to correct some of the other things: I ain't given no COD a 10/10, nor did I say Modern Warfare 3 was innovative while criticizing Mario Kart 7 for not being innovative. I said MW3, while retreading old ground, was still the best in its league, while MK7 was a step down for the series and had been eclipsed by other kart racers. You may disagree with those assessments, but I'm glad to be disagreed with. I just don't wanna be misrepresented.
Oh, also Jim Sterling is not a fictional character in Mad Men. He is a fictional character in Leverage.
That said, really glad y'all dug the article today, and my recent work in general. It's heartening to know this stuff is resonating, as it's stuff I care deeply about.
Good work man, I thought you were a troll for many years. These past couple though you've put out some great work.
Jake Tower
Banned
The parole officer isn't required for digital purchases. What are you talking about?
Digital purchases live on your hard drive, tied to your account.
You mean Sony is following the Wii U when it comes to retail and digital distribution?
NullPointer
Member
No. There are alternatives to a daily ping.
You only need to be online to verify access. That doesnt need to happen every time you launch a game or every time the sun rises.
I never said that even once. I'd only just been hired by Destructoid when whoever said that thing said it. It was someone else who isn't on staff now.
And to correct some of the other things: I ain't given no COD a 10/10, nor did I say Modern Warfare 3 was innovative while criticizing Mario Kart 7 for not being innovative. I said MW3, while retreading old ground, was still the best in its league, while MK7 was a step down for the series and had been eclipsed by other kart racers. You may disagree with those assessments, but I'm glad to be disagreed with. I just don't wanna be misrepresented.
Oh, also Jim Sterling is not a fictional character in Mad Men. He is a fictional character in Leverage.
That said, really glad y'all dug the article today, and my recent work in general. It's heartening to know this stuff is resonating, as it's stuff I care deeply about.
Fantastic read; spot on. Also, thanks for introducing me to Cardiacs.
No it didn't. GAF has nothing to do with CliffyB. He was involved in the community way the fuck before GAF. I used to chat with him on IRC all the fucking time in middle school and high school.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Because that's Sterling's job.
Maybe you have some insight into his recent breakdown then?
I actually thought he was pretty level headed while on the Giant Bomb episode, but all of that seems to have changed once he wasn't around "smarter people like Blow" as he put it.
lastflowers
Banned
If you want the ability to lend, trade, borrow digital content, then yes you probably will. (I think the ping should be a week or longer...but that's just me. I also think they should have a opt-in plan that you know what you're getting into if you do it. Also a 'I'll go offline for 30 days, which locks up selling/trading/borrowing/lending/digital library shenanigans).
It does if you want to implement a solution that evolves the rights of digital purchases that also pleases publishers and lights up scenarios of trading/lending/borrowing/co-playing that evolve the currently archaic digital rights on consoles/handhelds.
EDIT: and if you didn't know already, I am an MS employee that doesn't work on xbox. I am an avid ps3 gamer and a vita/psp/pspGO owner with about 30x the number of purchased games on sony platforms than MS platforms. So anyone saying I'm a shill is deeply wrong. Hell, the only reason I have a 360 is because I got one for free. Maybe you could say misguided, but not a xbox shill.
Well, consoles seem to generally be MUCH better protected if secured well, which is part of why Microsoft's plan looked so god damn absurd. And probably why used games and convenience got banded around, because how in the FUCK can you justify 24 hour dial ins for anti-piracy when the PS3 only cracked because of a dumb slip up and the 3DS/Vita are mostly secure now? And the aforementioned PS3 seems to be a bad platform to pirate the very latest games on anyway unlike PC or horribly compromised consoles.Like I said. It's as protected from piracy as it's gonna get.
Which also does make me wonder if the XB1 placed its eggs in the wrong basket and will be completely exposed come fall due to not having worked something in innately in favor of always online garbage. Will be interesting to see what happens there.
I think he's just wrong and not having a breakdown. I think he firmly believes that what he wants is best for the industry he loves and he is willing to stomp down on the rights of his customers to preserve it. I disagree but it isn't a breakdown. Sometimes, when someone is too deep into a bubble they don't look at the broader picture. I would love a podcast to have Sterling and Cliffy on and to discuss this for an hour or so.
SneakyStephan
Banned
I've been thinking this for a long time it's nice to see everyone finally agree. That whole consumer guilt , support support support for the sake of supporting mentality that devs and publishers have been establishing was getting on my nerves.
(post history me for consumer guilt trip and you'll get like 50 results
) Noone sheds a tear when 4 shitty restaurants open in village big enough to support 2 , and they all shut down because the service was shit and the specialties and meals were bought at the supermarket because they feel the need to cut corners.
But when this same scenario happens in video games?
Oh man developers and publishers are special snowflakes, we should feel sorry for them.
For one, he has not been baiting and trolling people on fucking Twitter just to get reactions like Cliff has been doing. He is writing articles as is part of his job, and he just so happens to be writing on the winning side of this fiasco that fell flat on it's face before it ever even had a chance to be implemented... and rightfully so.
mentalfloss
Banned
Code:
Like I said. It's as protected from piracy as it's gonna get.
Clever and great article man.
Jake Tower
Banned
Nothing is stopping MS from doing the lend, trade thing with digital purchases, and it doesn't require the 24 hour parole officer check in. Obviously, such purchases are tied to accounts, so that account has to be online to modify its contents, such as add players to your "share family" or whatever. Some of those features may require the player to be online, but none of them require the owner to by default have to visit the parole officer; he can play offline indefinitely if he isn't using the share/trade/sell functions.
Cliffy's never come off as being a forward-thinking big picture guy, even in his game design work. He looks at current trends and extrapolates from there. It isn't too surprising that he can't see any other possible path for the industry than the one it's already on.
We all care, Jim. We all care.
We all care, Jim. We all care.