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Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

Last year the team behind Rise of Flight ( 777 Studios ) announced they were working on the new IL-2. Now a bit of footage, developer diaries and presentations are starting to be released. They also opened up the pre-order program - http://il2sturmovik.com/ They already have early access slated for Autumn 2013 for the Premium Edition and Winter for the Standard Edition.

The original IL-2 was probably one of the best and most renowned flight simulators in the industry, it even has an active community to this day. Unfortunately the name has been beat to the ground and spat on with all those terrible arcade titles and the last IL-2; Cliffs of Dover, which was so broken and half-baked that it's already dead in the water - No more support.

Anyone familiar with 777 Studios know they are a quality studio, lot of attention to details and know how to make a solid game. IL-2 BoS will be based on the same engine as RoF running DirectX 9, however it will see a slew of graphical updates.

They also announced they adopted a different payment system than what they implemented in Rise of Flight, so no more buying individual planes and campaigns at DLC price - However no solid details have been given yet. ( It won't be F2P ).

Bunch of videos;

Pre-order trailer ( CG )

Bf.109 Sound test ( beautiful )

Sound occlusion test

Random flying

T-70 Tank Model

Bf.109 Online test / LaGG 3 ( May seem pointless but it's to show that planes aren't bouncing all over the place due to the netcode. A problem we've seen in multiple sims )

"Loft" Demonstrates some of the latest BoS lighting

GIFs from that last video;

Compiled list of "What we know so far";

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/146-what-we-know-so-far-battle-stalingrad/

Business and Plan
- Initial client release is slated for early 2014.
- Business model will have some similar aspects with RoF, but it will not be identical.
- Business model will be a hybrid between RoF and the old IL-2 [1946].
- Free-to-play client (as with RoF) will not be available.
- Some sort of free demo is planned.
- New content added over time after initial launch (paid).
- New theaters and planes are planned for the future if everything goes to plan.
- Closed Beta planned.
- Pre-orders will open in 2013.
- Private project, no government/state is involved with financing.

Technical
- Will use Digital Nature (Rise of Flight) engine.
- Engine will be DirectX 9 based on launch.
- If this product is a success - DirectX 11 support will be considered for the future.
- Native 64-bit support is still considered.
- Windows 8 will be supported.
- Work will be done to make the engine ready for WWII aircraft.
- Engine can support different types of player vehicles from main battle tanks to giant robots.
- TrackIR will be supported.
- Oculus Rift support is a possibility.
- FreeTrack will be supported.
- Steam support is unlikely.
- System requirements not known yet.
- Multi-threading and multiple cores will be utilized.
- Multi-core support will be the same as in RoF (best with 4-core CPU).
- External physical instrument support (as IL-2 DeviceLink) will not be available at launch.
- Multi-monitor setups will be supported.
- Force-feedback will be supported (and "better than previous games").
- Stereoscopic 3D support is confirmed.
- SLI/CrossFire will be supported.
- Will not use GPGPU (not applicable and no server-side option).
- The terrain will be bump-mapped.
- Will have dynamic cockpit shadows.
- The sound will be designed for stereo (but will work fine with multi-channel output).
- Visibility range is 40km.

Mods, Skins and Editor
- Mission Editor will be similar to RoF.
- No third-party planes or API planned.
- Other types of mods will be supported (as with "mods on" in RoF).
- Official Skin Packs will be used (as in RoF).
- User skinning will be supported with provided templates.
- Map Editor as a tool will not be available (however theoretically it will be possible to create new maps without an editor).

General
- Not a CloD clone sequel, a brand new game.
- Not an arcade game, a simulator.
- Only the critical systems will be modeled: propeller pitch, boost, altitude control, different mechanization, weapons etc.
- Not a study/training sim (think FSX, DCS), but a combat simulator.
- Would like to return to the original IL-2 [1946] idea.
- Will include both multi-player and single-player gameplay options.
- For SP: QMB, Single Missions and a Career/Campaign system.
- No clickable cockpits planned.
- Cockpit switches and toggles will be animated (to what extent unknown yet).
- Cockpit details will not be modeled to CloD level.
- Engines will operate in a realistic manner as they do in RoF.
- AI will be updated for the WW2 combat.
- AI will fly with the same flight model as the player (no simplifications).
- AI will be able to make decisions when to return to base (due to damage/fuel/ammo/etc).
- Multiple AI difficulty levels (novice, ace, etc).
- Parachute jump and bail out will be implemented (how detailed unknown yet).
- No pilot body in cockpit view (possible feature for the future/after release).
- Will have an achievement/award system.
- Track recording will be available (as in RoF).
- Aircraft "weathering" option/slider (as in CloD) will not be available.
- Realistic sound travel time (sound waves will be simulated).
- Will be able to open the canopy (with impact on aerodynamics)
- Rainfall will be modeled on the cockpit glass.
- Machine gun synchronizers will be accurately modeled (as in RoF).
- High altitude contrails will be modeled.
- Wake turbulence will be modeled.
- Compressibility of air will be modelled.
- Aircraft will have field modifications.

Damage Model
- Damage model has (already) been improved (from RoF point of view).
- Will have a cockpit damage model.
- Exploding wing ammunition magazines are part of the damage model.
- Will be able to damage other aircraft with your propeller alone.
- Falling parts (from other aircraft) can damage your aircraft.
- Bomb blasts can damage nearby aircraft.

Radio, Communication and Navigation
- You will be able to issue radio commands to AI (by hearing your own duplicated radio command voice and AI response).
- Ground forces will communicate with you over the radio.
- Airfield services also become more sociable (compared to IL-2 [1946]).
- Different radio frequencies (will be able to listed to enemy radio under certain conditions).
- Airfield maintenance and supply service and ground units will use flares.
- Radio navigation (beacons/AM stations) not planned for initial release.
- No built-in VOIP (voice chat).
- Navigational lights will be modeled.

Aircraft
- At least ten aircraft planned for launch (fighters, attack planes and bombers).
- Flight model will be much more accurate and harder (compared to CloD).
- 3D models will be more accurate than RoF or CloD (poly count wise).
- Aircraft will not be balanced (for "game" reasons) and built/modeled as they were.
- Confirmed aircraft:
LaGG-3
Yak-1
Bf 109 F-4
Bf 109 G-2
IL-2 (1942 year model, single-seat)
Ju 87 D-3
He 111
Pe-2

Ground Interaction
- Infantry (on the ground) will not be modeled.
- Will not be able to leave the plane and control the pilot.
- Ground search lights and aircraft landing lights will be implemented.
- Refuel, repair and ammo replenishment at airfields will not be available at launch (planned for the future).
- More than 30 ground vehicles.
- More than 500 static objects.
Confirmed ground units/vehicles:
T-34 STZ
T-70
PzKpfw III Ausf. L

Map and Campaign
- Covering the time period of the Battle of Stalingrad.
- The map will be geographically accurate.
- The snowy battlefield around Stalingrad will be believable.
- Will start with "Operation Uranus" (Soviet counterattack) and will finish with liberation of Stalingrad.
- Some terrain detail/visual improvements planned (from RoF point of view).
- Map length from west to east is 360 km.
- Map height from north to south is 230 km .
- Projected map area.
- Other small online maps are planned for release (as with lake map in RoF).
- Dynamic day/night cycle.
- All major historical airfields will be present.

Multiplayer
- Will have dedicated server support (Windows only).
- No official servers (only player/third-party hosted).
- Not a MMO, don't expect hundreds of players per server. ( Sethos: One of their MP slides said 100 players per server ).
- Multi-crew aircraft with full multiplayer support.
- Capture-the-flag (CTF, as in RoF) online game mode will not be available in BoS.
- Realism settings will be server-side and forced on players by the host.

Other
- BoS content will not merge with (or install over) Cliffs of Dover as stated before by former Maddox team.
- Some of the models and textures might be re-used from CloD.
- RoF (engine) might benefit from the work done on Battle of Stalingrad.
- The new Channel Map for RoF will not be available in BoS.
- The team inherited from 1C all materials, documents and studies for the Battle of Stalingrad and the Eastern Front.

And breathe. So anyone else a big fan of IL-2? I just pre-ordered the Premium edition.

TL;DR something with planes, meh.

YesManKablam · Jul 28, 2013

I really liked Birds of Prey, so I might give this one a try.

Subitai · Jul 28, 2013

Sturms were flying tanks man. Much better suited for the eastern front battles supporting ground forces than the German planes.

More of space combat guy, but I may give this a look.

efyu_lemonardo · Jul 28, 2013

cautiously optimistic.
We really need more good flight combat sims. Hopefully this one will have a strong foundation that will allow future releases as well as community support to build upon it.

Jinroh · Jul 28, 2013

So these aren't the guys behind Cliffs of Dover? That game was pure garbage at release, and they stopped supporting it before they even patched it to run on windows 8. The game depends on fan-made patches.

I will never buy another game made from these devs.

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

YesManKablam said:
I really liked Birds of Prey, so I might give this one a try.

Wings of Prey was a full-on arcade game. This is going back to old form with the original IL-2 and somewhat Cliffs of Dover to a simulator.

Jinroh said:
So these aren't the guys behind Cliffs of Dover? That game was pure garbage at release, and they stopped supporting it before they even patched it to run on windows 8. The game depends on fan-made patches.

I will never buy another game made from these devs.

Nope. Cliffs of Dover was pure garbage but this is the guys behind Rise of Flight, an excellent game.

Screenshots, courtesy of SimHQ;

Loxley · Jul 28, 2013

I look forward to the Giant Bomb Flight Club episode for this

Wiktor · Jul 28, 2013

So hyped. Love RoF and this sounds amazing.

Chance Hale · Jul 28, 2013

Steam early access please! Been wanting to get back into the series(My dad played the first game) but Dover had the awful launch and my flight stick was lost in the move(along with my 360 wheel) so I've haven't jumped to any lately.

Kind of nasty that you have to pay 90 dollars to play in the Autumn. If you only pay 50 you have to wait until Winter.

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

ricochetguro said:
Steam early access please! Been wanting to get back into the series(My dad played the first game) but Dover had the awful launch and my flight stick was lost in the move(along with my 360 wheel) so I've haven't jumped to any lately.

Won't be on Steam.

- Steam support is unlikely.

Chance Hale · Jul 28, 2013

Sethos said:
Won't be on Steam.

Yeah, just now caught the "unlikely" blurb amongst the rest.

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

ricochetguro said:
Kind of nasty that you have to pay 90 dollars to play in the Autumn. If you only pay 50 you have to wait until Winter.

I mean, it's still a show a support. You are paying for Alpha / Beta access. Full game won't release until 2014.

Chance Hale · Jul 28, 2013

Sethos said:
I mean, it's still a show a support. You are paying for Alpha / Beta access. Full game won't release until 2014.

True enough, I think Arma III's alpha program spoiled me. Birthday is in Autumn so I'll probably grab it with any extra funds I have left over.

Karak · Jul 28, 2013

Online test video is the most important video above. Glorious. As an old sim fan this stuff is getting me excited for a genre that I haven't been enjoying as much lately.

Riggs · Jul 28, 2013

I played original IL2 so much, god thats a good game. Might have to get a flight stick for this.

Chance Hale · Jul 28, 2013

- No clickable cockpits planned.
- Cockpit switches and toggles will be animated (to what extent unknown yet).

Confused about this, what do they mean by no clickable cockpit? Only the switches mapped to buttons/keys will be usable and those animated?

- Cockpit details will not be modeled to CloD level.
Bummer, that was one of the things that still makes me want to get Dover.

Not a massive deal but so much banding in the sky in the screenshots.

strafer · Jul 28, 2013

You know what to do Drew.

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

ricochetguro said:
- No clickable cockpits planned.
- Cockpit switches and toggles will be animated (to what extent unknown yet).

Confused about this, what do they mean by no clickable cockpit? Only the switches mapped to buttons/keys will be usable and those animated?

- Cockpit details will not be modeled to CloD level.
Bummer, that was one of the things that still makes me want to get Dover.

Not a massive deal but so much banding in the sky in the screenshots.

1) Check out the videos, there's tons of details in the cockpits - I doubt you'd notice if no one told you

2) Banding comes from compression method, doesn't necessarily mean it's in the game

Chance Hale · Jul 28, 2013

Sethos said:
1) Check out the videos, there's tons of details in the cockpits - I doubt you'd notice if no one told you

2) Banding comes from compression method, doesn't necessarily mean it's in the game

Oh I don't doubt it's from the compression method, just a bummer given how nice they'd look otherwise. Can't use them as a wallpaper. One imagines given the game takes place in the skies they will place priority on resolving any banding issues.

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

ricochetguro said:
Oh I don't doubt it's from the compression method, just a bummer given how nice they'd look otherwise. Can't use them as a wallpaper. One imagines given the game takes place in the skies they will place priority on resolving any banding issues.

The shots are heavily compressed JPEGs only posted on SimHQ apparently. Think it's just an incompetent editor that ran them through Photoshop.

On another note, at least we'll still have the amazing IL-2 destruction. Rise of Flight took it even further but just look at the amount of parts that goes into a plane;

And a botched landing;

( Taken from this presentation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFf1kIw5ulk )

Big_Al · Jul 28, 2013

Looks marvellous. I like both sim and arcade so I'll play any of them. One question, if I really liked Birds Of Prey is it worth picking up Birds Of Steel ?

Must get myself a flight stick, it's been a while and I've also been wanting to pick up a helicopter game as well for ages. So much of my youth spent on the Comanche games. (I know that's completely off topic, I just like helicopter games

)

Jackpot · Jul 28, 2013

Sethos said:
Unfortunately the name has been beat to the ground and spat on with all those terrible arcade titles and the last IL-2; Cliffs of Dover, which was so broken and half-baked that it's already dead in the water - No more support.

Those arcade games were the best thing to ever have Il-2's name on it. Not to mention critically well-received.

And this client/pay-to-win hybrid sounds awful.

Chance Hale · Jul 28, 2013

Sounds many steps away from the evil pit that is iracing at least. Seems like its a full game you're getting and you can pay for planes as dlc?

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

ricochetguro said:
Sounds many steps away from the evil pit that is iracing at least. Seems like its a full game you're getting and you can pay for planes as dlc?

Nothing is detailed yet but it sounds like a bog-standard stuff of buying the game retail and then a bunch of plane packs / scenarios will be released down the line as DLC. They seem to wanna move away from the awful RoF model. Also seem like most of the included planes are great planes. They might go back to releasing individual DLC planes as well.

efyu_lemonardo · Jul 28, 2013

what does GAF think about World of Warplanes?

I tried it a couple of times but wasn't really able to get into it, mostly because my machine had a hard time running it well..

Dex815 · Jul 28, 2013

I only hope they don't follow the same business model that with RoF, it becomes extremely expensive compared with other titles like the still king 1946.

Also the modders in CoD are achieving nice stuff already.

Any way 40 extra bucks (over an already high price) just for 2 planes (EXCLUSIVE PLANES... come on...) and early access... Nope. I will wait.

Forsete · Jul 28, 2013

I used to play the heck out of the old IL-2 Sturmovik games. <3

Thanks for making me aware of this.

I hope the TB-3 makes it in. I loved shooting that thing down.

Wiktor · Jul 28, 2013

Jackpot said:
Those arcade games were the best thing to ever have Il-2's name on it.

epmode · Jul 28, 2013

I'm surprised that they haven't guaranteed Oculus support already. Everything with a cockpit should at least try it out.

MizzouRah · Jul 28, 2013

This looks fantastic!

Although, I do agree. I hope they stay away from the airplane release model featured in RoF. But, if that model is profitable enough for them to make this game, I suppose I don't have much reason to complain.

Wiktor · Jul 28, 2013

epmode said:
I'm surprised that they haven't guaranteed Oculus support already. Everything with a cockpit should at least try it out.

There are barely any units in the world. Supporting TrackIR and multiscreen properly is ten times more important at this point. I'm sure they will patch in Oculous support later on when it actually hits the mainstream market.

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

AdrianWerner said:
There are barely any units in the world. Supporting TrackIR and multiscreen properly is ten times more important at this point. I'm sure they will patch in Oculous support later on when it actually hits the mainstream market.

Yeah, as stated by themselves

- Oculus Rift support is a possibility.

However they obviously aren't in a rush to get it in there, as there's barely any units and it's still in production. Plus they'd also have to invest in one for it to happen.

Down the road I'm sure.

DaciaJC · Jul 28, 2013

Aww yiss.

I'm curious, though, any reason why Steam support is unlikely?

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

DaciaJC said:
Aww yiss.

I'm curious, though, any reason why Steam support is unlikely?

Probably simulator developer #3086 that seem to have some weird hatred for Steam. I noticed that over the past few years on a majority of simulation forums, when Steam is mentioned the discussion explodes -- Some of these people have this burning anger for it.

Oh and on another note, to my previous point about the Occulus Rift. Apparently Jason, one of the 777 guys actually has a Rift - So support seems very likely.

Chance Hale · Jul 28, 2013

Woot, my Rift comes in some time next month(if all goes well) so I'll be more than ready if it makes the launch.

subversus · Jul 28, 2013

thanks for this thread, Sethos. I'm getting back into fly sims with my Hotas X and it seems like this game will be tons of fun. I have Cliffs of Dover but it... well, people who own it know what this game is. Maddox is out of the industry unfortunately.

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

subversus said:
thanks for this thread, Sethos. I'm getting back into fly sims with my Hotas X and it seems like this game will be tons of fun. I have Cliffs of Dover but it... well, people who own it know what this game is. Maddox is out of the industry unfortunately.

Yeah, also can't wait to get cracking again. Almost every single WW2 flyer since the original IL-2 has been a disappointment and I'm desperate for another good game in the simulation genre. I had such high hopes for Cliffs of Dover ...

Oh and here's another video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mW_VyxGsMwA - Especially at 5:52 when he zooms in one the ice and it has a reflection, love that stuff.

maniac-kun · Jul 28, 2013

I hope its not like cliffs of dover. That game was pure shit.

Jinroh · Jul 28, 2013

Weren't the cliffs of dover guys (original IL2 devs) working on another game as well? How comes there are so many IL2 licensed games nowadays?

Sadly after the cliffs of dover experience I won't preorder that kind of game again. I'll wait to see if they can really keep their promises, I'm too tired of bad support.

Cuban Legend · Jul 28, 2013

Im sorry but i need some learnin'...

Whats the difference between this, Wings of Prey Pc, War Thunder PC and IL-2 Sturmovik on the XBOX360/PS3?

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

Cuban Legend said:
Im sorry but i need some learnin'...

Whats the difference between this, Wings of Prey Pc, War Thunder PC and IL-2 Sturmovik on the XBOX360/PS3?

IL-2 Birds of Prey was made by Gaijin Entertainment, same guys behind War Thunder. Basically the multiplatform arcade take on IL-2.

War Thunder, is Gaijin's own arcade flyer which follows the same recipe and uses the same engine I believe.

The only IL-2 Sturmovik game on consoles is Birds of Prey. Wings of Prey was the enhanced PC version they also released.

IL-2 Cliffs of Dover was made by the guys that did the original IL-2 and was PC exclusive, supposed to be the real follow-up, however they dropped the ball and made a shit game and key people left the company.

This is another PC exclusive pure simulator ( Not study sim ) made by completely different studio that has released a fantastic sim called Rise of Flight.

Hope that clears it up a bit. The whoring of the IL-2 name has made it a clusterfuck.

subversus · Jul 28, 2013

Cuban Legend said:
Im sorry but i need some learnin'...

Whats the difference between this, Wings of Prey Pc, War Thunder PC and IL-2 Sturmovik on the XBOX360/PS3?

they are different games.

War Thunder = Wings of Prey II F2P as I understand. I'm using it to recover my flight stick skills.

Parch · Jul 28, 2013

I'd play it.

It's a bit of a niche genre. They can make fight sims visually stunning but getting the gameplay right is difficult.

PjotrStroganov · Jul 28, 2013

The BF109 sounds glorious!

Casimir · Jul 28, 2013

Sethos said:
Probably simulator developer #3086 that seem to have some weird hatred for Steam. I noticed that over the past few years on a majority of simulation forums, when Steam is mentioned the discussion explodes -- Some of these people have this burning anger for it.

You wouldn't happen to know why would you? I remember when Steam debuted. Its current iteration is completely different than that disaster.

Also, thanks for the thread. I assumed the IL franchise was going to be abandoned.

Sethos · Jul 28, 2013

Casimir said:
You wouldn't happen to know why would you? I remember when Steam debuted. Its current iteration is completely different than that disaster.

Seems to be a myriad of complaints. Sounds more like a couple of old people that are extremely stuck in their way and any changes are treated as an attack or the arch nemesis. Here's a randomly selected thread where I saw it last - Guy asks for the STEAM OVERLAY and suddenly a bunch of people randomly needs to tell everyone how bad Steam is. Even the head of the studio chimes in ...

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=19382

gillty · Jul 28, 2013

IL-2 is dead, leave it to rest.

PjotrStroganov · Jul 29, 2013

Sethos said:
Seems to be a myriad of complaints. Sounds more like a couple of old people that are extremely stuck in their way and any changes are treated as an attack or the arch nemesis. Here's a randomly selected thread where I saw it last - Guy asks for the STEAM OVERLAY and suddenly a bunch of people randomly needs to tell everyone how bad Steam is. Even the head of the studio chimes in ...

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=19382

Ironically, niche games can usually flourish after exposure on steam. Do they want to keep making janky products and not maximize their income?

Sethos · Jul 29, 2013

PjotrStroganov said:
Ironically, nice games can usually flourish after exposure on steam. Do they want to keep making janky products and not maximize their income?

While I'm a huge sim-head and I adore a lot of the sim communities for their passion and in many cases, maturity. However, they are an antiquated bunch of people that are so paranoid and afraid of change that it's bordering on pathetic. It's really like listening to a bunch of old people in a nursing home complaining about the youth these days, how nothing is what it used to be and "Oh the music is too loud".

I honestly don't know what is going through some of these developer's head. They might be afraid of the exposure, afraid of losing their trusty little club of stout fans or afraid to use Steam as it has been so stigmatized by their fans.

Simulators these days are so outdated, graphics straight out of 2001 and development that seems to move slower than a boat with its anchor down. I swear, you see some sim forums explode in happiness and joy when they add something mundane that would be considered pretty stellar in 1998. I mean, the forum I linked to is for the game Steelbeasts and the 3.0 version is about to be released fairly soon - One of the big bulletpoints is .... Added shadows. SHADOWS?! It's fucking 2013.

Christ some of these games could benefit from the exposure and higher income.

It's just one of those great mysteries ...

/rant

Wiktor · Jul 29, 2013

Casimir said:
You wouldn't happen to know why would you? I remember when Steam debuted. Its current iteration is completely different than that disaster.

Steam is starting to have a pretty big negative effect on some niche pc genres, so they're propably afraid that if they go that road, it will screw them up in future. Personally I think simulation fans are smart enough to not go for the idiotic "if it's not on Steam I won't be buying it!" route.

Another big problem might be Valve's terms. AFAIR you can't release game on Steam if all DLC isn't also avaible for it.

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