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JoshuaJSlone · Dec 13, 2004

Elios83 said:
I agree with this. That's why they didn't name it Gameboy even tough it play GB games...

But it can't. It can play GBA games. Kinda cuts out the first 12 years.

sonycowboy said:
I think that this is completely what the DS is all about. A stopgap effort whose sole purpose is to blunt the penetration of the PSP, slowing it down enough for the next true Gameboy.

Essentially. I tend to think of DS as if it's a $70 optional upgrade to the GBA SP that adds improved lighting, stereo speakers, two more buttons, a touch screen, a microphone, and the ability to play some games on the technical level of Super Mario 64.

sonycowboy · Dec 13, 2004

mashoutposse said:
Damn, long term prediction thread wars are no fun since the hammer won't come down on one of the groups for a couple of years... The Halo 2 guys got to watch the crow-eating festival in under 30 days :lol

It is going to be painful.

"Our system sold out of 85.03% of it's initial allotment in one day and yours only got 50.5%. LOLLLERS!!!"

"Look at the announced games, we're ahead 103 to 98!!! SUXXORRS!!"

"Just you wait 114 days for the US launch!!! We'll show you!!!"

Hajaz · Dec 13, 2004

".The problem is that Sony made consoles that are equipped with a weaker coil. After using the dvd drive for a period of time the coil burns over and damages the chip that steers the dvd drive."

seems pretty clear to me.

Anyway, i'll be looking forward to your tutorial on how to get my v4 reading any disc again, for the rest of its life.

Thanks in advance

SantaC · Dec 13, 2004

Why is it that sony vs Nintendo or MS vs nintendo threads always spawn the most replies?

Sony vs MS threads don't generate nearly as much.

Without Nintendo this gaming forum wouldn't be as popular as it is now :lol

kaching · Dec 13, 2004

xsarien said:
Have you read Gamespot's initial impressions of the thing? I did, and I still want a PSP, but their reports of the battery buying the farm anywhere between 90 minutes and 3 hours (for some games) of play only emphasizes the fact that for something that's not always going to be near a power source for more juice, optical media has a very real, tangible down side.

Protip: Check the official Japanese PSP launch thread here on this very forum, because every other hands-on account contradicts GS's.

Brofist · Dec 13, 2004

jarrod said:
Er, you mean they think it's going to be the next PC Engine and succumb to Sega's next system?

hehe now you're just taking me too literally. I just mean the obvious comparison of new system entering againt system with past huge installed base, that's all.

jarrod said:
I agree with that. I think as time goes on, people will stop comparing DS and PSP directly... DS seems suited morte to capitalize off GBA/mobile development, everything's much smaller scale.

I also think PSP will get some great Square Enix support. But it'll never have exclusive Square Enix support... hell, PS3 likely won't either.

yeah I don't think SE will be an exclusive developer for Sony or anyone either.

Smiles and Cries · Dec 13, 2004

SantaCruZer said:
Why is it that sony vs Nintendo or MS vs nintendo threads always spawn the most replies?

Sony vs MS threads don't generate nearly as much.

Without Nintendo this gaming forum wouldn't be as popular as its now :lol

THAT IS BECAUSE MOST GAMERS WANT NINTENDO DEAD!

or at least 3rd Party

not sure what about Yoshi makes them feel so threatened... gotta be the tongue

The End · Dec 13, 2004

I'd imagine that Sony still has enough stock in SE to keep the main-line FF franchise on Playstation consoles, but i fully expect SE to develop for the DS/Revolution next generation as well.

dark10x · Dec 13, 2004

Hajaz said:
".The problem is that Sony made consoles that are equipped with a weaker coil. After using the dvd drive for a period of time the coil burns over and damages the chip that steers the dvd drive."

seems pretty clear to me.

Anyway, i'll be looking forward to your tutorial on how to get my v4 reading any disc again, for the rest of its life.

Thanks in advance

In simple words? The V4 is more difficult to adjust due to the location of the mainboard (as it needs to remain plugged in and active during adjustment), so I'd recommend using two people. You need to basically get beneath the drive itself and find a small amber colored circuit board. Standing the unit on the floor, there are two adjustment screws. When viewing the system from the front, the right screw adjusts the DVD voltage and the left adjusts CD. CD voltage is less sensitive and easier to adjust, however.

You need to have a small phillips screw driver ready. Hold the PS2 upright with access to the screws. Everything must remain connected as you must power on the unit. From the browser screen, you can adjust those screws in realtime and test them immediately. Clockwise rotation = voltage increase and counter = voltage decrease. Once you've done it a few times, you should become used to the sounds made by the lens right off the bat and know which way to adjust. For now, just make a best guess, but turn is VERY small degrees. Test after each adjustment. Eventually, you'll find the sweet spot and everything should be fine. Put it back together and you're all set.

You might also find that cleaning the lens first would be a better place to start, as dust collection on the lens is a big problem.

Not exactly user friendly and there is no excuse for it, but the hardware in question has not failed. Luckily, newer units (beyond the V5, I believe) do not seem to have this issue at all (and also vibrate less while reading CDs).

jarrod · Dec 13, 2004

The End said:
I'd imagine that Sony still has enough stock in SE to keep the main-line FF franchise on Playstation consoles, but i fully expect SE to develop for the DS/Revolution next generation as well.

Then why is FF3 on DS and not PSP?

mashoutposse · Dec 13, 2004

xsarien said:
Protip: If any of this shit mattered, the Game Boy would've been killed long ago. When parents - or, hell, anyone - is looking for a portable device for any use, price, battery life, and available software will rule over everything else. Sony will best serve the PSP by pushing the gaming aspects of it, not the more generic "multimedia" features; the PSP is easily outclassed by your average, standalone mp3 player, and portable video is entirely too distracting for it to be as popular as portable audio.

Going forward, I think that less-than-cutting-edge hardware will be harder to accept. And that's "cutting edge" in all aspects -- graphics, sound, body design, non-gaming multimedia features. If the GBA2 hits on all of these, Sony needs to be very, very worried. If Nintendo doesn't deliver (their record says that they might not), then prepare for another PS1/DC or PS2/GC situation.

Have you read Gamespot's initial impressions of the thing? I did, and I still want a PSP, but their reports of the battery buying the farm anywhere between 90 minutes and 3 hours (for some games) of play only emphasizes the fact that for something that's not always going to be near a power source for more juice, optical media has a very real, tangible down side.

I have yet to hear from anyone who has gotten anything significantly less than 4 hours of play from a 100% charge -- heck, there have already been reports of people getting 2+ hours on the residual charge from the factory. The GSpot report is the only one that comes anywhere close to 2 hours from full, much less 90 minutes.

Yes, and when Sega did this, they were forced to pull the system because it was killing the company. Losses are losses, and they have to be mitigated by a sense of reality by the people in power. Microsoft can afford to play this game, Sony can't. It's unfortunate that SCE is falling into Redmond's trap.

Sony is mitigating their losses by not selling an obscene amount of them at the worst possible time in its lifecycle (as far as profitability is concerned). That's a smart strategy; it creates buzz and inflicts damage to the competition's rep earlier and more effectively. They put it into people's minds that much better can be had for a slight premium; it makes the widely available "profitable" hardware look to be a worse value (it is by definition, since it is "profitable"), and it makes people much more willing to wait. In the mean time, 500k people get $400 technology for half the price and market the machine for Sony through word of mouth.

Expert move, IMO.

Smiles and Cries · Dec 13, 2004

The End said:
I'd imagine that Sony still has enough stock in SE to keep the main-line FF franchise on Playstation consoles, but i fully expect SE to develop for the DS/Revolution next generation as well.

In the end, you will find that Nintendo buys SE sometime next year...

GAF EXCLUSIVE!

xsarien · Dec 13, 2004

kaching said:
Protip: Check the official Japanese PSP launch thread here on this very forum, because every other hands-on account contradicts GS's.

I prefer Gamespot because I don't have to wade through fighting, comparisons, damage control, screenshots, bitching about pre-orders, and moaning about Sony's phantom QA issues.

monkeyrun · Dec 13, 2004

JoshuaJSlone said:
Essentially. I tend to think of DS as if it's a $70 optional upgrade to the GBA SP that adds improved lighting, stereo speakers, two more buttons, a touch screen, a microphone, and the ability to play some games on the technical level of Super Mario 64.

lol :lol :lol that's alot of things to upgrade.

And PS2 is an upgrade of PSone (with improved graphics, sound) lol dude they even got the same controller.

Brofist · Dec 13, 2004

jarrod said:
Then why is FF3 on DS and not PSP?

I'd imagine Sony wouldn't even want a game that looks like FF3 on the PSP, they want softs that show the difference in systems.

Hajaz · Dec 13, 2004

dark10x said:
In simple words? The V4 is more difficult to adjust due to the location of the mainboard (as it needs to remain plugged in and active during adjustment), so I'd recommend using two people. You need to basically get beneath the drive itself and find a small amber colored circuit board. Standing the unit on the floor, there are two adjustment screws. When viewing the system from the front, the right screw adjusts the DVD voltage and the left adjusts CD. CD voltage is less sensitive and easier to adjust, however.

You need to have a small phillips screw driver ready. Hold the PS2 upright with access to the screws. Everything must remain connected as you must power on the unit. From the browser screen, you can adjust those screws in realtime and test them immediately. Clockwise rotation = voltage increase and counter = voltage decrease. Once you've done it a few times, you should become used to the sounds made by the lens right off the bat and know which way to adjust. For now, just make a best guess, but turn is VERY small degrees. Test after each adjustment. Eventually, you'll find the sweet spot and everything should be fine. Put it back together and you're all set.

You might also find that cleaning the lens first would be a better place to start, as dust collection on the lens is a big problem.

Not exactly user friendly and there is no excuse for it, but the hardware in question has
not failed. Luckily, newer units (beyond the V5, I believe) do not seem to have this issue at all (and also vibrate less while reading CDs).

:s

actually it might be a v5 (pal launch ps2).

i'l check in a bit.

you wouldnt happen to have any links with pics or stuff would u?

On a side note, wether its a physical fault or not, the fact is that 99% of people will think its broken, take it back, get charged 100euro's for getting it fixed, then decide its better to just buy a new one.

The End · Dec 13, 2004

Sony has FF7:Crisis Core lined up for the PSP. They're all set.

Insertia · Dec 13, 2004

jarrod said:
Then why is FF3 on DS and not PSP?

SE couldn't get away with something as cheap as porting a NES game to PSP unless the graphics were remade entirely 3d or it featured entirely updated sprites and hand drawn/cg backgrounds. It's entirely passable for DS, though.

Timbuktu · Dec 13, 2004

I predict that Sony won't be in very good shape, financially, for the next few years. They will gain marketshare of course, but really I don't think Sony can afford PSP to fail or to lose ground in the home console market. Like Microsoft, they're throwing out profits for profile, jumping the gun with the technological curve and running the risk that consumers don't buy as much software as they thought and the business will never go into the black. Nintendo is always going to lose. They can pull out a price drop on the GBA SP and that would outsell DS/PSP for quite a while still, but Nintendo can never 'win' unless Sony quits, and that is never gonna happen when Sony doesn't seem to mind being in red.

This just doesn't seem like healthy competition to me. MS and Sony are out to dominate and control the industry, but to what end? To control the living room? Yes, the PSP is sexy and sleek and years ahead technologically, this sort of thing isn't sustainable. Consumers would expect technological leaps like this again and again, and when it doesn't happen, they would move on to other forms of entertainment. Over time, people will get used to it, and PSP's tech will lose its appeal.

mashoutposse · Dec 13, 2004

naz said:
How the hell is that a good thing? A good thing for you or the industry?
The consumer may be happy with the price, but if Sony suffers someday it will be passed down to us, one less game funded - one dev department shutdown to cut cost - and so on.
Business does not run on fairy dust it takes money.

It's a good thing for everyone.

Me (a gamer), because I get something worth X amount of dollars for X/2. Reason #1.

Me, because the better hardware will make the 5-7 year cycle that much more bearable.

The industry, because exciting hardware breeds interest in the platform, and its games by extension.

The industry, because they can develop better games and possibly solve the low tie ratio issue in the handheld market.

Sony, because the only way to surpass and then become the market leader in the long run is to simply develop an overwhelmingly superior product to the point where the two are almost not comparable.

Sony, because the seed laid in the minds of gamers with that immensely superior hardware back in 2004 will keep the system selling years down the road, when the hardware is finally profitable.

It's all good, baby.

Pimpwerx · Dec 13, 2004

This thread is worthless really, since it will all come down to waiting and seeing. But that said, Nintendo fans have become the new Sega fans. Living in a permanent state of denial about the impending doom facing their preferred company. Well, just think, in a couple years, you'll be able to find all the GB/DS software you want at great prices, as new releases go straight to the bargain bin, DC stylee. :lol Just need a touch more of that Sega-esque desperation. PEACE.

mashoutposse · Dec 13, 2004

sonycowboy said:
It is going to be painful.

"Our system sold out of 85.03% of it's initial allotment in one day and yours only got 50.5%. LOLLLERS!!!"

"Look at the announced games, we're ahead 103 to 98!!! SUXXORRS!!"

"Just you wait 114 days for the US launch!!! We'll show you!!!"

:lol I'm sayin!

JoshuaJSlone · Dec 13, 2004

monkeyrun said:
lol :lol :lol that's alot of things to upgrade.

Which is what makes it such a great deal for $70.

There are GB cartridges/extensions that add things like rumble, tilt control, wireless... this is like a set of them tossed together.

And PS2 is an upgrade of PSone (with improved graphics, sound) lol dude they even got the same controller.

If the old rumored PlayStation Type C came out, and in addition to the rumored differences it had a very different form of input, perhaps that would be an analogous situation.

As for whether the consumers at large will consider the DS the true successor to the GBA, let's see if it consistently outsells the GBA in 2005.

kpop100:

I'd imagine Sony wouldn't even want a game that looks like FF3 on the PSP, they want softs that show the difference in systems.

Well hell, it's not like even FFIII DS will look like FF III. But yeah, SE probably just wants to use as much of the Wonderswan work as they can, rather than starting from scratch again.

Zerodoppler · Dec 13, 2004

Then why is FF3 on DS and not PSP?

FF3DS is just a quick cash-in for SE, just like GTA Advance was for Rockstar. They get some free money that can be used to develop new entries in the series for Playstaion consoles and Nintendo probably thinks that they will get something out of the deal too. Too bad

SantaC · Dec 13, 2004

and in the end, Nintendo will make a profit.

monkeyrun · Dec 13, 2004

SantaCruZer said:
Why is it that sony vs Nintendo or MS vs nintendo threads always spawn the most replies?

Sony vs MS threads don't generate nearly as much.

Without Nintendo this gaming forum wouldn't be as popular as it is now :lol

lol coz no one really cares if xbox dies or not, and PS2's in such a strong position that there's no way sony'll die.

Smiles and Cries · Dec 13, 2004

"Just you wait 114 days for the US launch!!! We'll show you!!!"
but he said something like this in this thread

Doc Holliday · Dec 13, 2004

Handheld market = kiddie market...

I dont see 8-12 year olds with psp or DS imo. The GBA sp will dominate for a long time, with the DS coming in second. Those UMD's and that nice screen will not last for long in the hands of a child. Only the hardcore will buy the PSP, I know i am

xsarien · Dec 13, 2004

mashoutposse said:
Going forward, I think that less-than-cutting-edge hardware will be harder to accept. And that's "cutting edge" in all aspects -- graphics, sound, body design, non-gaming multimedia features. If the GBA2 hits on all of these, Sony needs to be very, very worried. If Nintendo doesn't deliver (their record says that they might not), then prepare for another PS1/DC or PS2/GC situation.

The anthem of every fan of every system that tries, or has tried, to compete with the Game Boy on technology. I heard this all before when the Game Gear came out, when the Lynx came out, when the Turbo Express came out, when the N-Gage came out, and when the NG Pocket came out. Portable gaming has an atrocious attach rate, and is simply not played in the same way as a traditional console game; treating the market as you would for a set-top console is a mistake because it doesn't behave that way.

I have yet to hear from anyone who has gotten anything significantly less than 4 hours of play from a 100% charge -- heck, there have already been reports of people getting 2+ hours on the residual charge from the factory. The GSpot report is the only one that comes anywhere close to 2 hours from full, much less 90 minutes.

Gamespot was clear in their indication that the battery life varied greatly depending on the game they were playing, which just emphasizes Sony's own decision to have developers use some kind of battery life simulator on their games.

Sony is mitigating their losses by not selling an obscene amount of them at the worst possible time in its lifecycle (as far as profitability is concerned). That's a smart strategy; it creates buzz and inflicts damage to the competition's rep earlier and more effectively. They put it into people's minds that much better can be had for a slight premium; it makes the widely available "profitable" hardware look to be a worse value (it is by definition, since it is "profitable"), and it makes people much more willing to wait. In the mean time, 500k people get $400 technology for half the price and market the machine for Sony through word of mouth.

Expert move, IMO.

Yes, expert move, Sony. Drop the ball starting in the early summer and let Microsoft and Nintendo eat your lunch. And, given that Nintendo keeps increasing their DS sales forecasts, the PSP shortage isn't hurting their "rep" at all. All it does is point out that Sony bit off more than it could chew by forcing the PSP out now in hopes of trying to stem the DS wave a bit. They should've waited until after the holidays, but instead they created both PS2 and PSP production problems by trying to get into the 2004 holiday. "Expert" is not defined as "Not being able to meet consumer demand on a massive scale." People get fired over shit like this.

You want to create demand? You do it the old-fashioned way, with highly polished, almost sick amounts of advertising. Shortages do two things: It drive the secondary market up, and makes people buy competing but equivalent products, especially when there's a time limit.

And no, every one of these companies aims to sell these things at a profit, even Sony. Constantly selling at a loss is never in the cards for them, because it puts the financial health of the company at risk. There's math involved, math that says "We can only afford to sell it for price X for Y years without completely tanking." And if it cuts into your little model of how only you matter, then so be it.

jarrod · Dec 13, 2004

Insertia said:
SE couldn't get away with something as cheap as porting a NES game to PSP unless the graphics were remade entirely 3d or it featured entirely updated sprites and hand drawn/cg backgrounds. It's entirely passable for DS, though.

You think FF3 DS is going to be a NES port?

Zerodoppler said:
FF3DS is just a quick cash-in for SE, just like GTA Advance was for Rockstar. They get some free money that can be used to develop new entries in the series for Playstaion consoles and Nintendo probably thinks that they will get something out of the deal too. Too bad

Yow, all this damage control off a little backhanded comment. So yet another FF7 spinoff isn't a cash-in?

kaching · Dec 13, 2004

xsarien said:
I prefer Gamespot because I don't have to wade through fighting, comparisons, damage control, screenshots, bitching about pre-orders, and moaning about Sony's phantom QA issues.

Not to mention that their take works better for the case you're trying to make!

Elios83 · Dec 13, 2004

naz said:
Because a manufacturing Giant should have not fucked up the Holiday's Next year is too late, you have to be stupid to think the DS will just STOP SELLING and wait for the PSP. PSP is SEXY yes and will sell HUGE numbers, but the DS is not worthless...

It will be worthless. The price difference is minimum and PSP will make the DS look retarded in the eyes of customers and sellers. It won't get any spin aside from die-hard Nintendo fanboys. I think PSP will just crush the DS by this time next year. And just wait until more games like Winning Eleven, Tekken, Gran Turismo, Madden etc. will be announced with multiplayer support via wi-fi. Moreover, Nintendo's image has been pretty much tarnished in the eyes of tech geeks. They can only release decent hardware 18 months or more than Sony to be competitive. Sony is pretty much slapping them in the face as far as perception goes, and this will help them greatly in the future. PlayStation 3 included.

Lord Error · Dec 13, 2004

This board is just not interested in handhelds.

Are you serious? Handhelds seem like the only thing anyone here talks about nowadays, except for an odd game or two in the official stickied threads.

xsarien · Dec 13, 2004

kaching said:
Not to mention that their take works better for the case you're trying to make!

Which is what? What is my agenda? I couldn't be more vocal about how much I want a PSP if I tried. Stop taking valid points personally. The only "case" I presented with those remarks was that the PSP's battery life ain't too hot compared to the GBA and the DS.

Elios83 · Dec 13, 2004

Hajaz said:
GC = profitable
GBA= profitable
DS= profitable

PSP=not profitable (if sony sold 10 million of them today they would be bankrupt)

personally i'm not intrested in either ds or psp.

Ds is not part of the gameboy family, and psp will be like all sony hardware : buggy and broken right after waranty runs out.

Sony > better hardware as far as spec and games go. That's all I need to know as a customer. I'll leave you enjoy the money Nintendo makes on their sub-par handelds and late, game starving home consoles.

Smiles and Cries · Dec 13, 2004

Elios83 said:
It will be worthless. The price difference is minimum and PSP will make the DS look retarded in the eyes of customers and sellers. It won't get any spin aside from die-hard Nintendo fanboys. I think PSP will just crush the DS by this time next year. And just wait until more games will be announced like Winning Eleven, Tekken, Gran Turismo, Madden etc. will be announced with wi-fi support. Moreover, Nintendo's image has been pretty much tarnished in the eyes of tech geeks. They can only release decent hardware 18 months or more than Sony to be competitive. Sony is pretty much slapping them in the face as far as perception goes, and this will hel them in the future. PlayStation 3 included.

BOOKMARKED for future pwnage /endorsed my MISS CLEO

Kseutron · Dec 13, 2004

naz said:
THAT IS BECAUSE MOST GAMERS WANT NINTENDO DEAD!

but why ??

Elios83 · Dec 13, 2004

naz said:
BOOKMARKED for future pwnage /endorsed my MISS CLEO

Please do. I'm doing the same. PSP this time next year will crush the DS. We'll see who's right between me and you

firex · Dec 13, 2004

don't you guys see? it's sony's plan all along to sell below expectations. that way Nintendo is all "owned!!!!" and focuses on GB/DS too much, while sony just works at being better in the console market and gets a much better grip on things.

Smiles and Cries · Dec 13, 2004

Kseutron said:
but why ??

why ask why?

playing sony makes us feel like men

holding a dual shock 2 makes you look cool

playing pokemon makes you feel like you have a kid sized penis

the Xbox is a big black and bad motherfucker

pick one, this is enough reason for GAF to want Nintendo DEAD

AnIco · Dec 13, 2004

jarrod said:
Compared to 6 SKUs already announced for DS. That's is hardly the PlayStation shift from 1996.

I don't think it's too controversial to suggest that the budget for FF VII: CC is broadly equal to the sum of all the DS' games' budgets, and that doesn't factor in the inevitability of further PSP titles.

CrimsonSkies · Dec 13, 2004

It's fairly obvious that the PSP will beat the DS. The question is can it beat the GBA. Probably not, but the foundation will be made for the sequel to take over the market.

Idiot Member · Dec 13, 2004

jarrod said:
Square Enix disagrees with you.

Last time I checked neither Square Enix were initially alligned with the PlayStation when it launched. But with the PlayStation Portable they've already announced a title being developed by it's most important development studio and a part of the Final Fantasy VII franchise and compilation.

This analysts don't really know much about video games, so although I agree with their opinion here I take it with a grain of salt.

The problem I see with the next gameboy system is by the time it releases the PSP will already have been established with a userbase, and library of games, not to mention it's price will have dropped substantially. How will the next gameboy match it?

Jarrod your numbers are once again off. The Gameboy Color sold far more than 30 million units. And the original Gameboy never hit 90 million by itself. 120 million was for the GB, GBP, and GBC iirc.

DSN, you're blind. Sony's ability to manufacture PSPs will grow constantly though part of it's product life cycle. Sony is looking to be profitable by the end of the first year, thus the PSP would be a source of profit by the time the PS3 comes out, and if it works out that way it clearly would not hinder the ps3.

SonyCowboy the reason for the PSP coming out in december had more to do with sony wanting to launch the next system according to the PlayStation's 10 year anniversary, rather than showing the media something. They won't sell many units at all in the next month. Not to mention that christmas is not nearly as strong a selling time in Japan as it is in the united states and europe, and here we have no PSP..

They are also failing to increase shipments of the PS2s. They may get another shipment out before the end of the month, but many retailers don't expect more units until after january first.

While the poor planning and timing will hurt sony in the short term, it hardly matters in the long term. If sony REALLY cared about the holiday season you would have seen the global launch they promised. They'll wait til more software comes out making the PSP seem more impressive. It'll get better critical acclaim in spring than it would now in the winter.

Hajaz, consumers aren't going to see the DS as a third pillar, it is going to split sales with the GBA/SP. You're going to see GBA/SP sales drop significantly.

Kpop if Square Enix sees the PSP as the handheld of choice, they will have no reason to support Nintendo.

KeithFranklin · Dec 13, 2004

GC = profitable
GBA= profitable
DS= profitable

PSP=not profitable (if sony sold 10 million of them today they would be bankrupt)

Simply being profitable isnt enough. If I had a product idea and went to investors and said I need your funding to create X and they said sounds good what type of return on investment (ROI) are we talking and I said 5% they would say thanks but no thanks. Why should they? They can make more money than that with simple investments. Now go to them and say hey we can make a 15% per year ROI over a 10 year period, but the first 3-5 years will be a loss many of them will say lets do it.

They weren't pissed off in 1998, 2001 or even now in 2004.... why would 2007 be any different?

Sure it was what 1991 to 1998 before the old handheld couldnt play the new handhelds games

Can the GBA (1998) play the GBASP games (2001)? Yes
Can the GBASP(2001) play the DS games (2004)? No
Will the DS (2004) be able to play GBA2(2007) games? No

See the difference?

Brofist · Dec 13, 2004

Galian Beast said:
Kpop if Square Enix sees the PSP as the handheld of choice, they will have no reason to support Nintendo.

I don't think they'll drop Nintendo support altogether, but it'll never get better than now either, meaning remakes of old games and small side projects.

jarrod · Dec 13, 2004

Galian Beast said:
Last time I checked neither Square Enix were initially alligned with the PlayStation when it launched. But with the PlayStation Portable they've already announced a title being developed by it's most important development studio and a part of the Final Fantasy VII franchise and compilation.

BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!

Kpop if Square Enix sees the PSP as the handheld of choice, they will have no reason to support Nintendo.

Last time I checked, you predicted Slime Morimori would be Square Enix's final GBA game, they'd skip DS entirely and throw full support behind PSP from day one. I think everyone at GAF understands precisely what your opinion's worth.

Galian Beast said:
Jarrod your numbers are once again off. The Gameboy Color sold far more than 30 million units. And the original Gameboy never hit 90 million by itself. 120 million was for the GB, GBP, and GBC iirc.

I'm going to need you to source all of this. Otherwise I'll have to assume you're once again talking out your ass.

Idiot Member · Dec 13, 2004

Keith I really don't see the NDS selling that well beyond this high holiday shopping season.

I think the early adopters and present buying parents will be the ones to buy the DS in masses due to shortages from other systems, but when it comes to the mainstream audience they are going to feel uneasy and unhappy at both the quick release of the DS after the GBA SP and the lack of quality software for the system. With the PSP launching within 3 months I think they'll take out their frustration by buying a different product. Especially one that isn't so far off in price. The PSP may very well be released at 149.99 in north america equally the DS.

Doc Holliday · Dec 13, 2004

I find these threads highly amusing for one reason. I still dont understand how in one hand can say PS2 kicks ass despite that fact that the GC and the xbox have better hardware yet its the opposite when it comes to the handheld market. At least be consistent in your arguments. Best hardware doesn't mean automatic sucess, ask sony about that. What i think will happen is that sony will learn from this and get better at making handhelds.

Timbuktu · Dec 13, 2004

Galian Beast said:
Hajaz, consumers aren't going to see the DS as a third pillar, it is going to split sales with the GBA/SP. You're going to see GBA/SP sales drop significantly.

Err...check November NPD. The DS launch didn't seem to have slowed down the GBA at all. I think in sales, GBA+DS were bigger in November than PS2+Xbox+GC.

xsarien · Dec 13, 2004

KeithFranklin said:
Can the GBA (1998) play the GBASP games (2001)? Yes
Can the GBASP(2001) play the DS games (2004)? No
Will the DS (2004) be able to play GBA2(2007) games? No

See the difference?

Your dates are a bit off:

Original Game Boy
Launched: 1989
Compatibility: Game Boy

Game Boy Pocket/Light
Launched: 1996
Compatibility: Game Boy

Game Boy Color
Launched: 1998
Compatibility: Game Boy, Game Boy Color

Game Boy Advance:
Launched: 2001 (SP, 2003)
Compatibility: Game Boy*, Game Boy Color*, Game Boy Advance

Nintendo DS
Launched: 2004
Compatibility: Nintendo DS, Game Boy Advance (single-player only.)

(*There's a short-short list of games that won't work with the GBA/GBASP. Most notably, Kirby's Tilt 'n' Tumble (or whatever it's called.)

None of these caused parents to get mightly ripped at Nintendo. There are hundreds of GBA games available, and Nintendo will most likely include GBA compatibility in any future GBA2 project. Evidence of this? They certaintly didn't need to make the DS compatible, but they stuffed a GBA cart slot in there anyway.

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