• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"

P

Piggus

Member
todd360 said:
Yea for sure. I wonder why they didn't start preparing earlier. I mean this was the longest gen ever. Maybe they just got lazy.
Click to expand...

Unlike Sony, when Microsoft builds a new system they pretty much drop all support for the previous system and put all resources into the new console. At least that's how it worked with the original Xbox when the 360 came out. Perhaps they wanted to milk the 360 a bit more (especially since Kinect has sold well and breathed new life into the system sales-wise) before killing it off with a new system. They also probably didn't think Sony was launching this year either and with such a strong system (given their financial trouble).

Note to Microsoft: When your competition is out for blood, it's probably not a good idea to underestimate them.
 
S

Sword Of Doom

Member
spatenfloot said:
I think maybe development just went slower than expected and they fell behind. Everything seems to have gone well for Sony, so it just made things worse. Microsoft was just unwilling to let Sony launch first and so it all seems rushed to market. Plus they apparently did not expect the bad response to their first reveal.
Click to expand...

I don't know seems rushed to me. Or maybe it's just they underestimated the competition and figured they'd be battling another PS3
 
B

Brad Grenz

Member
Here is the problem with ESRAM on the Xbox One compared to the EDRAM on 360: the One is 6 times more powerful but the main memory bandwidth is only 3 times greater. This places more pressure on the embedded memory to bridge the gap, but it is only 3 times larger and is actually slower. So both the bandwidth and capacity ratios to the GPU power are quite a bit worse requiring a lot more optimization. And the proliferation of deferred rendering techniques and the large buffers and numerous render targets they employ only exacerbate the situation.
 
W

Wildarmsjecht

Member
By the Gods...

Cboat has returned...

It's almost as if a new line from the Dead Sea Scrolls has been deciphered

Is it Yield issues?

Does the current upclock pose some sort of problem unknown to the general public?

Is another upclock planned that has unforeseeable risks?

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN!!>!>!

I don't know, all i know is that..I'm all interested again.
 
B

BigJoeGrizzly

Neo Member
kaching said:
You're really clinging to "evolution" as a saving grace for that embedded memory. Evolution generally just produces features/functions that are suitable to task, not necessarily superior. It could be suitable for what the XBO needs to function optimally but that doesn't guarantee it's easier to work with.
Click to expand...

I'm "clinging" to a stated fact that was right out of the Xbone software engineer's mouth. Its not like I'm making any of this up, and using a straw man's argument to fit my opinions. Evolution is about natural growth, because you are now better equipped to deal with an environment or situation than you were previously.
 
T

TheRealTalker

Banned
If CBOAT means hardware issues... then MS can't afford another RRoD scenario especially with the console being at such a higher price compared to its competitors
 
S

Sword Of Doom

Member
BigJoeGrizzly said:
I'm "clinging" to a stated fact that was right out of the Xbone software engineer's mouth. Its not like I'm making any of this up, and using a straw man's argument to fit my opinions. Evolution is about natural growth, because you are now better equipped to deal with an environment or situation than you were previously.
Click to expand...

But you're not listening to anyone on here so why even bother? Cause they're making sense to me. And let's say that you are right. That the Xbox is the easiest console to develop for in history, you still have the power gap to consider.
 
P

Piggus

Member
hawk2025 said:
They did start preparing earlier, at least on the software side -- Published games on the 360 all but dried up on the last two years, games like Dead Rising 3 and Ryse were moved to next gen, etc.


It just seems like on the hardware side, it simply wasn't enough.
Click to expand...

In terms of hardware, Sony started in late 2007 and Microsoft apparently started sometime in 2010. That's a pretty big difference...
 
S

Skeff

Member
Wildarmsjecht said:
By the Gods...

Cboat has returned...

It's almost as if a new line from the Dead Sea Scrolls has been deciphered

Is it Yield issues?

Does the current upclock pose some sort of problem unknown to the general public?

Is another upclock planned that has unforeseeable risks?

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN!!>!>!

I don't know, all i know is that..I'm all interested again.
Click to expand...

Consoles are manufactured and on there way out into the wild, they have all been tested to work at the new clocks, an upclock at this stage would need to either:

Call back all manufactured units and re-test/bin
Update clocks on day 1 update for a non-tested clock

The first would significant;y impact the number of xbones shipped. The second would create a vast number of bricked xbox's due to the lack of testing at higher clocks. I'm not talking about slowly melting consoles here, I'm talking about up clocking blind, which would essentially destroy the machine straight away, when up clocking commercially it must be done only on chips that can handle it at the same Vcore, we'd be looking at day 1 update followed by consoles failing on reboot, the consoles themselves would need to go back to MS for a replacement APU.

I cannot imagine a second upclock at this stage.
 
S

Skeff

Member
crazy buttocks on a train said:
ineva metnioned forz.a notbe 1080-p, they s

houcld make it. But, excption not rhthe rule tho:ug.jh. thru this genm, never mind try tomatch eyecandyi. n thx to esram 720 to900 wilb e nte norm on xone



y1ou watch

you jes watchh


man ):
Click to expand...

Thanks buddy, I thought it seemed weird, thanks for clarification, It makes sense xbone will be 720-900p.
 
R

RedRedSuit

Member
Night Angel said:
Ass storm is coming.

Truthfact.

Cboat is the reason I joined Gaf. Didn't expect any more bombs this year. Wow.
Click to expand...

I'm not seeing any bombs from him here. I am seeing statements that are fairly vague. The one kinda/sorta specific thing he said is don't expect 1080p to be the norm. However, that already seems to be abundantly clear.
 
SRTtoZ

SRTtoZ

Member
Ahh so 720-900p will be the norm while Forza remains at 1080p. Also the February event fucked up Microsoft's plans.

Thanks Butts.
 
S

spatenfloot

Member
RedRedSuit said:
I'm not seeing any bombs from him here. I am seeing statements that are fairly vague. The one kinda/sorta specific thing he said is don't expect 1080p to be the norm. However, that already seems to be abundantly clear.
Click to expand...
He just seems to confirming what is already expected. Nothing really earth shattering.
 
L

lumzi23

Member
IN&OUT said:
XBOX Fans "Power Perception" time line:

Orbis/Durango days:

POWAH is everything, Sony have no money, Durango will be 50% stronger than any PC gpu ever created.
Click to expand...

I think this is what we call 'revising history.'

Even before the PS4 unveiling the rumors always supported PS4 as more powerful. And the fans have always capitalized on this. Lets keep this straight.
 
W

Wildarmsjecht

Member
Skeff said:
Consoles are manufactured and on there way out into the wild, they have all been tested to work at the new clocks, an upclock at this stage would need to either:

Call back all manufactured units and re-test/bin
Update clocks on day 1 update for a non-tested clock

The first would significant;y impact the number of xbones shipped. The second would create a vast number of bricked xbox's due to the lack of testing at higher clocks. I'm not talking about slowly melting consoles here, I'm talking about up clocking blind, which would essentially destroy the machine straight away, when up clocking commercially it must be done only on chips that can handle it at the same Vcore, we'd be looking at day 1 update followed by consoles failing on reboot, the consoles themselves would need to go back to MS for a replacement APU.

I cannot imagine a second upclock at this stage.
Click to expand...


It did strike me as odd, and it would indicate some nearly improbably things to occur (unless they've been keeping secret that they did a second upclock prior to manufacturing),

but trying to decipher Cboat's second post...

could it just mean that hardware limitations prevent 1080p from being the norm on the X1?

Oh..read the comments after. It looks like we won't see many 1080s. Crazyyyyy
 
S

Skeff

Member
IN&OUT said:
Translation guys, I'm too drunk for this!
Click to expand...

Translation: I never mentioned forza not to be 1080p they should make it, but it's the exception not the rule. Through this gen never mind trying to match the eye candy and thanks to esram 720p to 900p will be the norm on xb1, you watch, you just watch.
 
A

Averon

Member
What is it about the X1 architecture that make hitting 1080p harder on it than on the PS4. Or maybe the question should be what is it about the PS4 that makes hitting 1080p easier?
 
B

Biker19

Banned
RedRedSuit said:
I'm not seeing any bombs from him here. I am seeing statements that are fairly vague. The one kinda/sorta specific thing he said is don't expect 1080p to be the norm. However, that already seems to be abundantly clear.
Click to expand...

He said it for Xbox One, though, not PS4 as well.
 
T

TheRealTalker

Banned
Wishmaster92 said:
720p-900p will be the norm for xbox one. Forza was an exception.
Click to expand...
I see thanks.... Well Forza sacrificed a lot of features in order to be 1080 so I wonder if MS will decide to sacrifice some extra things in a lot of upcoming games to do what Forza did

The next Halo being in 900p would be unfortunate if it the chose to.... Which is likely the case since they want 60fps
 
B

BigJoeGrizzly

Neo Member
Zatoichi's Cane said:
The overwhelming majority of GAF believes that xbone architecture is that much inferior, and rightfully so. So far everything we've seen and heard points to a large gap (40%+ and i'm being conservative).

Nothing wrong with you defending your taste in games but when you start to make arguments about how the gap may not be as large as it seems be, then you start raising red flags.
Click to expand...

My initial argument in this topic was not about how the gap between both consoles was not as large as it seemed, but was me raising the question of whether it really MATTERS to most gamers once the games are out and they all look awesome and are fun. I then felt the need to discuss the Xbone memory topic, NOT because I felt it wasn't inferior to the PS4's offering (which if you read my earlier statements, I acknowledge that the PS4's memory architecture is better and more efficient), but because people began suggesting that it was difficult to develop for.

That lead me to bring up the Digital Foundry quote from the Xbone software engineer himself describing their current memory setup as an "evolution" to the 360's (which wasn't very difficult at all, and had been familiar to devs for the past 8 years). I understand that objectively the PS4 has hardware that is more capable than the Xbone, but I felt that people were reaching a bit when they started suggesting the 360's memory architecture was difficult to grasp, in order to make it seem like the Xbone's similar memory setup was THAT much worse (making it seem like the Xbone's memory was even farther apart in capability from the PS4 than most originally thought). The knife is already in, and I think some people are trying to find any possible reason to twist it further.
 
N

Nobility

Banned
If 720-900P is the norm for Xbox One, I'm starting to think of the consequences towards the later years of the console life cycle.

Can't really say much since neither console has launched yet but I'm very curious to see both consoles' visuals 3-4 years from now. Consumers always look for that one graphically impressive game to persuade them to buy a console when the price is right. Can't think of how MS will pull it off without clever marketing.
 
W

Wynnebeck

Banned
crazy buttocks on a train said:
ineva metnioned forz.a notbe 1080-p, they s

houcld make it. But, excption not rhthe rule tho:ug.jh. thru this genm, never mind try tomatch eyecandyi. n thx to esram 720 to900 wilb e nte norm on xone



y1ou watch

you jes watchh


man ):
Click to expand...

CBOAT da Gawd. Have you heard anything juicy on third parties or Sony lately? Thanks for the truthfacts. Yeah, that Feb. 20 Sony Meeting fucked up everything for MS who thought Sony was going to wait until 2014.
 
I

IN&OUT

Banned
Skeff said:
I never mentioned forza not to be 1080p they should make it, but it's the exception not the rule. Through this gen never mind trying to match the eye candy and thanks to esram 720p to 900p will be the norm on xb1, you watch, you just watch.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate.

esram was a bad decision ... really bad one.
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
What boggles my mind is how they didn't design the console from the ground up to handle 1080p with ease. This shit should have been standard in terms of next gen console design imo.
 
T

travisbickle

Member
lumzi23 said:
I think this is what we call 'revising history.'

Even before the PS4 unveiling the rumors always supported PS4 as more powerful. And the fans have always capitalized on this. Lets keep this straight.
Click to expand...

If you go back a year or so before the unveiling, MS were favoured in power just because of their last platforms and finances. But as we received more information the picture became more clear, and there were a lot of account suicides over MS losing the position of power leader.
 
R

RedRedSuit

Member
Skeff said:
CBOAT, FUD, ok buddy...smh
Click to expand...

It is FUD.

Before you label me an MS shill or whatever -- I fully expect PS4 to be significantly better than Xbox One in terms of visuals, and I fully recognize that, in the last generation, CBOAT delivered a pretty amazing string of actual insider "bombs" unmatched by pretty much anyone else since.

However, (a) his track record on specifics has not been that great recently; and (b) stuff like "you just watch" is pretty much the definition of FUD. It's vague enough to cause fear and uncertainty without being specific enough to be called on it later.
 
V

viveks86

Member
OMFG! I was out for 2 hours and CBOAT comes to drop more bombs!

Yikes! Question to all: Does CBOAT only deliver bad news?! LOL

Wynnebeck said:
CBOAT da Gawd. Have you heard anything juicy on third parties or Sony lately? Thanks for the truthfacts. Yeah, that Feb. 20 Sony Meeting fucked up everything for MS who thought Sony was going to wait until 2014.
Click to expand...

Has he been accurate about Sony in the past? Thought he was closer to xbox related info.
 
SEGAvangelist

SEGAvangelist

Member
We already know 720p-900p is the norm based on Killer Instinct and Ryse. I thought cboat would give us something good after hiding out for so long.

viveks86 said:
OMFG! I was out for 2 hours and CBOAT comes to drop more bombs!

Yikes! Question to all: Does CBOAT only deliver bad news?! LOL
Click to expand...

Mostly, but he did leak the region free news document and Platinum Games title, so not always.
 
B

BigJoeGrizzly

Neo Member
Sword Of Doom said:
But you're not listening to anyone on here so why even bother? Cause they're making sense to me. And let's say that you are right. That the Xbox is the easiest console to develop for in history, you still have the power gap to consider.
Click to expand...

GOOD LORD! I never once said or suggested that the Xbox is "the easiest console to develop for in history." Stop putting words into my mouth. Read any of my recent previous posts in this topic, and find and quote ONE instance where I stated that the Xbox was or will be the easiest console to develop for in history.
 
S

Skeff

Member
Kaako said:
What boggles my mind is how they didn't design the console from the ground up to handle 1080p with ease. This shit should have been standard in terms of next gen console design imo.
Click to expand...

TV TV Sports TV TV -> 8gb Ram -> in 2010 that meant DDR3 -> too slow for games -> esram/edram bandaid required -> edram has additional fab processes and they wanted a single SoC with x86 from AMD so edram was not feasible -> esram -> esram takes a lot of space so space is at a premium on the SoC -> 32mb is all they could fit.

That's the thought process and I understand it, but it is not what I would want from a Gamers perspective.
 
W

Wynnebeck

Banned
travisbickle said:
If you go back a year or so before the unveiling, MS were favoured in power just because of their last platforms and finances. But as we received more information the picture became more clear, and there were a lot of account suicides over MS losing the position of power leader.
Click to expand...

This. The attitude coming into that Feb. 20 announcement was that Sony would have to make a PS3.5 to make money while Durango would be stronger because MS had deep pockets. Obviously, this wasn't the case.

RedRedSuit said:
It is FUD.

Before you label me an MS shill or whatever -- I fully expect PS4 to be significantly better than Xbox One in terms of visuals, and I fully recognize that, in the last generation, CBOAT delivered a pretty amazing string of actual insider "bombs" unmatched by pretty much anyone else since.

However, (a) his track record on specifics has not been that great recently; and (b) stuff like "you just watch" is pretty much the definition of FUD. It's vague enough to cause fear and uncertainty without being specific enough to be called on it later.
Click to expand...

You admit CBOAT drops bombs and then say he's spreading FUD? That's pretty silly.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
viveks86 said:
OMFG! I was out for 2 hours and CBOAT comes to drop more bombs!

Yikes! Question to all: Does CBOAT only deliver bad news?! LOL
Click to expand...

He's delivered neutral/good news on:

- XB1 releasing later than PS4 (due to contract staff for XB1 launch only coming on the 15th )
- Black Tusk game looks fucking awesome ( in his opinion )
- MS is doing a survey on digital marketplace
- DR3 is XB1 exclusive. PERMANENTLY.

Aside from that, there's really no good news from MS's camp. :/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Sclash for PS5, Xbox Series, PS4, Xbox One, and Switch launches May 2 (currently available for PC)
News Trailer
2
461
Yonyx replied
Do game developers still want to publish on Xbox? A survey of independents and small studios
34
2K
ZoukGalaxy replied
Data suggests PS5 outsold Xbox S|X at 2:1
47
3K
Kacho replied
  • Locked
Activision executives met with Nintendo to discuss plans for a next-generation Switch, which is described as closer to PS4 / Xbox One performance
23
1K
jorgejjvr replied
Eurogamer: What is the point of Xbox?
2 3 4
159
12K
mckmas8808 replied
Top Bottom