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PC gaming will never be taken seriously until it fixes the bs

V

VillageBC

Member
PC gaming will never be as smooth as console gaming. While it is something to strive for and demand that developers don't do sloppy ports or release broken games. The freedom to upgrade components, mod games, run with insane graphics fidelity, maintain a level of backwards compatibility for years (or decades), run emulators and do real work does come at cost in stability and ease of use.

It's disingenuous to claim PC gaming is some sort of wreck when it clearly is not the case. Games in fact, do just install and work. Default auto-detected graphic settings are typically good enough for the system you're on. Very rarely do you need to do anything besides installing the game.
 
derExperte

derExperte

Member
Dahaka said:
You guys remember config.sys, devicehigh? I have fond memories of those times actually.
Click to expand...

I dreaded that stuff before ditching my lovely Amiga and going PC but what you got in return was so amazing I didn't care anymore after starting my first game (DOTT). A custom config.sys for Comanche, U7 or Strike Commander? Why not, worth it. And I still feel the same today although the differences between consoles and PCs aren't that big anymore of course.
 
A

afternoon delight

Member
And I still feel the same today although the differences between consolen and PCs aren't that big anymore of course.
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I dunno man, I love playing C&C Red Alert, Super Metroid*, and CS:GO in the span of three hours on the same machine without a hiccup, freeze, crash, etc.

* I've bought the cartridge about three times over my life, back off Hasselhoff.
 
R

Ryu751

Banned
Great thread. OP hit the nail on the head. PC gaming has to be simple and stable for it to every hit a main stream audience. Back in the day I wanted to play Doom 3 and Far Cry and Half Like 2, but all the tinkering just killed the experience.
 
eot

eot

Banned
Ryu751 said:
Great thread. OP hit the nail on the head. PC gaming has to be simple and stable for it to every hit a main stream audience. Back in the day I wanted to play Doom 3 and Far Cry and Half Like 2, but all the tinkering just killed the experience.
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This is just too much.
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
Minsc said:
This is one point I don't agree with. One is not lucky if things work without problems, one is unlucky if things don't work correctly (in most cases). Do you really believe the majority of PC games released don't run correctly for most users? No, it's a vocal minority that have issues with the games. Of course it depends vastly on what type of games you play as well, but if you look at everything, I don't believe it will be a common issue that most of that game's players cannot play it due to their PC.
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Unlucky being the opposite of lucky suggests my definition was fine and that you're being needlessly pedantic.

I didn't ever suggest the vast majority of games don't work fine, but you're certainly lucky if you're not one of the unfortunate few who find themselves stuck with a difficult issue.
 
Minsc

Minsc

Gold Member
Zakalwe said:
Unlucky being the opposite of lucky suggests my definition was fine and that you're being needlessly pedantic.

I didn't ever suggest the vast majority of games don't work fine, but you're certainly lucky if you're not one of the unfortunate few who find themselves stuck with a difficult issue.
Click to expand...

It's a weird way to say it I guess. If you were in a raffle that you had a 95% chance of winning, are you lucky if you don't lose it? Or are you unlucky if you don't win? I don't think they're quite the same. Or perhaps put it in terms of chance to hit, if you had a 95% chance of hitting, are those odds "lucky to hit" the same as saying "unlucky to miss"?
 
S

Sekundes

Neo Member
wow, maybe I'm just one of the few lucky ones.
But from the ~100 games I played over the past 15 years on my PC. I've barley had to edit any files to get the game to work.

And the only twerking I had to do since the Steam-era is to occasionally enable gamepad control for my controller from my PS1/2 by adding some files.

I also have had every PS since the fist and now the 360 as well and in my opinion, it's way easier to play games on a Windows System than on a Console these days...
Installing games takes ages, constant updates, PSN or XBL are off, game loading times, OS loading times. It's faster to start my computer + steam than a console + "smart"-TV.

And the main problem is, when a game on the console isn't working properly, then that's it... nothing you can do but wait for the developers/sony/ms to come up with an patch.
On a PC you at least have the ability to try and find a fix for it.

so yeah, when it comes to "just jumping in and playing a bit" the PC wins since the consoles have the worst loading times ever. (no idea how its going to be with the new gen)

I also like to think about what I put into my computer b4 buying it... of course using a Mainboard or buying a GPU that only you and 300 other people have will leave you with less infos on that baords/cards problems if it comes to that...

Also, tinkering with files is the best! "Mods" thats all I'm gonna say.
 
S

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
We all know Nvidia takes PC seriously because they beat both Sony and MS to the recording feature punch and upped it to 20 minutes and allow for 60 fps recording at an undoubtedly higher quality rate. They also give you access to the file too.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Opiate said:
I definitely agree with this. In fact, I'd go further, and say that the precise strengths of the PC platform (power, flexibility, openness) necessarily cause its weaknesses (less simple, less accessible). You can try and moderate the weaknesses, but you can't eliminate them entirely. In other words, you can't have everything at once.
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I don't always agree with you Opiate, but with this I agree 100%.

The problem with these threads, and people using what should be a banned term (master race) and the elitist attitudes of some of the PC-centric posters is that they do the equivalent of beating someone over the head with a rock to prove their point.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of hyperbole by posters about issues.. but it goes both ways. Pretending issues are trivial or non-existent on PC is really just as bad as saying PC gaming is hard.

Is PC game less accessible as a whole than console gaming. Yes. Anyone who's had their aunt or cousin call them to wipe malware of their computer or fix all their fucked up extensions and system files because they thought they knew what they were doing knows better.

I've never gotten called to fix a problem with their console.

I'm just saying, we should all be a little more understanding and welcoming than LOL, hyperbole much?
 
C

CecilRousso

Member
NervousXtian said:
I'm just saying, we should all be a little more understanding and welcoming than LOL, hyperbole much?
Click to expand...

Well, I find it hard to be understanding to people claiming that PC gaming is all about editing ini files, updating drivers and replacing DLL's. That's just not the truth. Replies to hyberbole is always going to be a bit condescending.
 
M

MogCakes

Member
CecilRousso said:
Well, I find it hard to be understanding to people claiming that PC gaming is all about editing ini files, updating drivers and replacing DLL's. That's just not the truth. Replies to hyberbole is always going to be a bit condescending.
Click to expand...

You may find it hard but you could put forth some effort in trying before burning them at the stake.
 
W

Wyndstryker

Member
PC Gaming won't be taken seriously outside of PC only regions where consoles have a greater presence, at least thats how it is at this time.

There are many places in the world where PC gaming is the main platform of gaming (South Korea, Southeast Asia, Brazil, China, many parts of Europe), just because it's not the primary platform in the west doesn't mean it's not possible for PC gaming to become a dominant platform.
 
M

MogCakes

Member
Wyndstryker said:
PC Gaming won't be taken seriously outside of PC only regions where consoles have a greater presence, at least thats how it is at this time.

There are many places in the world where PC gaming is the main platform of gaming (South Korea, Southeast Asia, Brazil, China, many parts of Europe), just because it's not the primary platform in the west doesn't mean it's not possible for PC gaming to become a dominant platform.
Click to expand...

It already is the dominant platform worldwide, and that's no surprise, PC's have many uses outside of gaming after all.
 
S

Skelter

Banned
kazebyaka said:
No pain, no gain.
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He gets it.


603080_10151936779204798_635117871_n.jpg
 
R

Ryu751

Banned
eot said:
This is just too much.
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See this is the problem of why you don't get it. Time is limited for entertainment. Anything above just putting the disk in and playing is unacceptable in my world. Back before the Xbox 360 came out PC games were kicking ass. So, I bought them they ran like shit or crashed. After that I was frustrated and not having fun. Never came back to PC gaming after that.
 
C

Clawww

Member
Ryu751 said:
See this is the problem of why you don't get it. Time is limited for entertainment. Anything above just putting the disk in and playing is unacceptable in my world. Back before the Xbox 360 came out PC games were kicking ass. So, I bought them they ran like shit or crashed. After that I was frustrated and not having fun. Never came back to PC gaming after that.
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They ran like shit or crashed--sounds like your hardware got outdated, or you screwed something up. You wouldn't be the first one in this thread to have some insane notion of what your specs are capable of.

As for all this nonsense about time... you're sitting down for a gaming session, let's say around an hour: spending five minutes the first time around to get it going exactly the way you want it or need it to run doesn't seem too bad. It'll probably take that long for your 360 game to patch and your console to restart and for you to punch in a key for LIVE.
 
C

CecilRousso

Member
Ryu751 said:
See this is the problem of why you don't get it. Time is limited for entertainment. Anything above just putting the disk in and playing is unacceptable in my world. Back before the Xbox 360 came out PC games were kicking ass. So, I bought them they ran like shit or crashed. After that I was frustrated and not having fun. Never came back to PC gaming after that.
Click to expand...

Then you of course shouldn't bother with PC gaming. OP is wrong in that PC gaming has to cater to people like you to be succesful though.
 
M

MutonCommander

Banned
Ryu751 said:
See this is the problem of why you don't get it. Time is limited for entertainment. Anything above just putting the disk in and playing is unacceptable in my world. Back before the Xbox 360 came out PC games were kicking ass. So, I bought them they ran like shit or crashed. After that I was frustrated and not having fun. Never came back to PC gaming after that.
Click to expand...

I hope you've give this a second thouhgt once the Steam Machines are out next year, they seem to be just the thing for your particular needs.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
You know, I kind of miss the magical days of DOS in some ways. It's very much nostalgia for me but modern PC gaming just doesn't have the feel or excitement that I used to get. It's funny seeing people bitch about difficulty when it's become almost too easy to the point where, when things don't run, I actually become much more irritated as it's not something I would expect. Back in the day, I was more surprised when something DID run so it was rewarding to make it happen.

Also, I'm pickier these days and some PC games ship with issues that can't be corrected with tweaking. That kind of stuff always annoys me as there's nothing you can do.

Still, the PC really is a great platform that has come so far.

ctw0e said:
Personally, I'd say PC gaming takes less time and effort than console-gaming. The loading times as for the latter is a damn nuisance and takes too much from the experience.
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Heh, that's one area that I don't think the PC has a huge advantage in. A lot of the larger games still take their damn time loading data even when installed to an SSD. Of course, lots of data to move around and all that, but it's something that's remained a bit disappointing.

Similarly, some games still suffer from hitching as a result of data access (typically UE3 games).

Not a huge deal, I suppose, but with 16gb of fast memory and multiple SSDs installed it becomes rather frustrating when you run into those problems. Carmack talked about this stuff back when Rage launched and I agree with him. The way data handling works on the PC still interrupts the experience even today.

Anyone else remember 10-15 years ago when it was REALLY bad, though? You would play games and when a big explosion or something would happen the whole game would freeze and stutter for a few seconds and, upon returning, the explosion would be over. I used to think "man, that must have been one kickass effect that I missed".
 
V

Vinci

Danish
Sethos said:
And what was the point of that comment? It's a PC thread, with the OP making statements regarding PC gaming and the platform - Why the fuck wouldn't the PC gamers be coming?
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The OP was clearly - CLEARLY - trying to have a PC gaming discussion with handheld and iOS gamers. The fact that you, and many others, weren't able to suss this out?

Master Race, indeed.


FWIW: I've had some issues with PC gaming in the past, but lets be real - it is dramatically better now than it used to be. Hopefully it continues to improve.
 
M

MeBecomingI

Member
I don't have any real issues myself. There are the occasional times where a game doesn't jive with something else running like Rivatuner or something but that happens rarely and most often it is quick fix.

I like to look at PC and console gaming as complimentary to each other. I enjoy both and I'm not picky about what I play on either. I have a nice library on consoles and a nice library on my PC. I'll go from playing Payday 2 on the PS3 to playing Dead Space 3 at 2560 x 1600 at max settings on my PC at 60+ fps and back to Payday 2 without being bothered by the framerate or IQ or anything. I take the good with the bad from both platforms and just enjoy them for what they are; good platforms to play games on. It just seems to be a "one way or the other" situation with PC and console gaming and that is unfortunate. I just can't stand hardcore elitists on both sides because they simply exacerbate the divide between the two which just leads to more crap.

Just enjoy them both.
 
G

Garrus Vakarian

Member
SirMossyBloke said:
Theres way too many people in here saying he's wrong that it isn't hard or difficult.

I don't think he said either of those things. I think he finds it annoying.
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Exactly, it's the level of tolerance each person has with issues like this. The issues don't occur for everyone, and they aren't always hard, but they exist and it can be a turn off for some people.

The thread probably could have done without the antagonistic title, but the point the OP is making is still valid. There is a higher level of entry financially, and you have to deal with the tweaking and troubleshooting, it's the nature of the platform.

The OP is pointing out the fact that things like this can be a turnoff for people, it's the reason valve is trying to make the platform more accessible with the steam box. Will it work? Maybe a discussion for another thread.
 
G

Grayman

Member
if I played my lucas arts games with sound they would eventually stutter and hard lock. It was like a risk/reward system of do I get to hear bernard.
 
I

inm8num2

Member
MIlky1985 said:
Don't' forget when you had to figure out which sound chip would world with your game and computer setup, is it a soundblaster 2 or 1, is it adlib and would the game even work with it!
Click to expand...

But when you figured it out, that feeling of accomplishment was great!

People complaining about "the bs" in current PC gaming really have no idea how good it is.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Ryu751 said:
See this is the problem of why you don't get it. Time is limited for entertainment. Anything above just putting the disk in and playing is unacceptable in my world. Back before the Xbox 360 came out PC games were kicking ass. So, I bought them they ran like shit or crashed. After that I was frustrated and not having fun. Never came back to PC gaming after that.
Click to expand...

The absolute worst period in history for launch software on PC being buggy as hell was 2003-2005; all games required 3d accelerators but there were major driver issues and OpenGL/DirectX were not quite as mature as they are today. Patching wasn't yet automatic but it was already required.

Had you bought PC games 3-4 years later, you'd have found the exact opposite--that everything ran really well even on a modest PC and that virtually nothing had bugs.
 
O

Ouroboros

Member
PC gaming for about 3 years now. I have none of these problems. Like some said before, I also enjoy the tinkering.

Now when a game just flat out doesn't play...that's where we have a problem.


I'm lookin' at you Legacy of Kain : Soul Reaver 2.....stupid game.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
venne said:
Kids these days.

The things I had to do to play Wing Commander 2 with the speech pack. . . .
Click to expand...
Old school gaming got me into tinkering with my computer, which caused me to crash the thing several times over, which after I made the fixes gave me confidence to tinker even more, which eventually led to my current career as a software developer.

But when I get home from work I'm in no mood for it as part of my entertainment. PC gaming accessibility has definitely gotten so much better over the years though, that's for damn sure, but in my experience it still has a decent way to go yet before it has the simple comfort that consoles have as a baseline, while still allowing for all the tinkering and customizing that a truly open platform provides. I think we'll get there though.
 
G

GillianSeed79

Member
I kinda somewhat agree with OP. I need to update my drivers on my ATI mobility Radeon 5870 laptop. I go to steam to check for driver updates. I'm redirected to AMD's site. I try to run the auto-detect driver update tool. No dice. Try to save it. No dice. I'm actually kind of worried about the fact that AMD has the contracts for next-gen consoles. There is nothing intuitive or easy about updating your drivers via AMD. I've only been playing PC games since 2010, but updating your drivers for AMD cards is the fucking worst. It's horrible. Like, if I ever get another PC, I'm getting a Nividia card.

How about a giant fucking button for us stupid people who aren't fucking computer scientists that reads like, hey, want to auto update your drivers? Click here. No. I've got to go through a checklist like in I'm in the lunar lander or something just to update my fucking drivers. There's no laptop option. It's just notebook or desktop. I have a laptop. Is it a notebook? I've done this before and it took me hours. I have to watch a video to find out if I've got a Windows 64 bit or 32 bit.

Now I got to go through my post history just to find the link to the plea for help I got when Bioshock Infinite came out to update my drivers because I had to do a full system restore a month ago because ASUS laptops are fucking shit and I got the infinite start up bug. Everything gone. Do you have to deal with this shit with Nividia? AMD is the fucking worst. I'm pretty sure whoever designed Healthcare.gov designed AMD's website.
 
C

Clawww

Member
GillianSeed79 said:
I kinda somewhat agree with OP. I need to update my drivers on my ATI mobility Radeon 5870 laptop. I go to steam to check for driver updates. I'm redirected to AMD's site. I try to run the auto-detect driver update tool. No dice. Try to save it. No dice. I'm actually kind of worried about the fact that AMD has the contracts for next-gen consoles. There is nothing intuitive or easy about updating your drivers via AMD. I've only been playing PC games since 2010, but updating your drivers for AMD cards is the fucking worst. It's horrible. Like, if I ever get another PC, I'm getting a Nividia card.

How about a giant fucking button for us stupid people who aren't fucking computer scientists that reads like, hey, want to auto update your drivers? Click here. No. I've got to go through a checklist like in I'm in the lunar lander or something just to update my fucking drivers. There's no laptop option. It's just notebook or desktop. I have a laptop. Is it a notebook? I've done this before and it took me hours. I have to watch a video to find out if I've got a Windows 64 bit or 32 bit.

Now I got to go through my post history just to find the link to the plea for help I got when Bioshock Infinite came out to update my drivers because I had to do a full system restore a month ago because ASUS laptops are fucking shit and I got the infinite start up bug. Everything gone. Do you have to deal with this shit with Nividia? AMD is the fucking worst. I'm pretty sure whoever designed Healthcare.gov designed AMD's website.
Click to expand...

Computer illiterate gamer tries to run Bioshock Infinite on a laptop; nice summary of this thread.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
What's really annoying is when you play a game where the developers/publisher doesn't really care that much about the PC version. I'm currently sitting here waiting for Batman Origins to be patched so I can finish the game because their last patch (that was fixing a glitch that made it impossible to unlock one of the radio towers in the game) broke the boss fight near the end. From what I've gathered this is apparently a PC only problem right now.
 
petran79

petran79

Banned
Stumpokapow said:
The absolute worst period in history for launch software on PC being buggy as hell was 2003-2005; all games required 3d accelerators but there were major driver issues and OpenGL/DirectX were not quite as mature as they are today. Patching wasn't yet automatic but it was already required.
Click to expand...

at that time the cool thing were console and arcade emulators on PC
 
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