Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I've been holding off on getting this game until it was announced for the PS4 but I might bite earlier than that. I'd been waiting for a Toki Tori 2 thread to pop up for some time now.
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The GOTY 2013 and one of the best games ever made, and the industry cancers
- Thread starter freezamite
- Start date
Oppo
Member
jezuz.
you know, the 'generic brown shooter' nonsense is just as noxious and dumb as the 'nintendoz for the kiddiez' shit.
Unfinished Swan?
Puppeteer?
Brothers?
Gone Home?
Papers Please?
The Stanley Parable?
Starbound?
Monaco?
Amnesia?
Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime?
I could go on. Could you?
you know, the 'generic brown shooter' nonsense is just as noxious and dumb as the 'nintendoz for the kiddiez' shit.
Uh huh. Ok tell me about some games you think fit that mode that don't happen to be on a Nintendo platform.
Unfinished Swan?
Puppeteer?
Brothers?
Gone Home?
Papers Please?
The Stanley Parable?
Starbound?
Monaco?
Amnesia?
Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime?
I could go on. Could you?
Funny, I see people on NeoGAF applauding this type of game all the time. It's almost as if OP is putting up a baseless strawman argument to make himself feel superior.
FUCK what a great title. I have to check this out.
TheJollyCorner
Member
personally I think people should be more upset that the amazing arcade scene from the 70s/80s/90s is practically dead (at least in the US). 
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Wait a minute, you're not Drinky_Crow.
Toki Tori 2 is certainly a wonderful puzzle game and beautifully designed.
It's also not very ambitious, the levels are basically strings of river crossing puzzles that become more and more intricate through higher topological and animal complexity. You don't really learn new things, you begin to apply your two main mechanics (chirping and stomping) to more and more variations of similar situations.
The progression is all show-don't-tell and natural, but it's nothing you haven't seen in a lot of games now considered classics -- you could say it illustrates how well such an old-fashioned formula (with the limitations that originally created it long overcome) still works and makes sense, and in what ways this way of thinking could inspire design solutions even in more directed, text- and voice-heavy games, solutions that are a little less heavy-handed.
The design itself isn't an alternative for these games; they aren't 2D, they aren't puzzle games, they are linear, they focus on story etc. Toki Tori 2 shows that a simple game doesn't need to be simple-minded, -- I think that's already a lot and deserves credit! It's not the avant-garde of video game design, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't want to be.
I think the game will be featured in my personal top 10 this year, ranking higher than a lot of games that received almost universal acclaim. That's not because these games are cancerous, it's because I really like puzzle games, and Toki Tori 2 is a great puzzle game.
It's also not very ambitious, the levels are basically strings of river crossing puzzles that become more and more intricate through higher topological and animal complexity. You don't really learn new things, you begin to apply your two main mechanics (chirping and stomping) to more and more variations of similar situations.
The progression is all show-don't-tell and natural, but it's nothing you haven't seen in a lot of games now considered classics -- you could say it illustrates how well such an old-fashioned formula (with the limitations that originally created it long overcome) still works and makes sense, and in what ways this way of thinking could inspire design solutions even in more directed, text- and voice-heavy games, solutions that are a little less heavy-handed.
The design itself isn't an alternative for these games; they aren't 2D, they aren't puzzle games, they are linear, they focus on story etc. Toki Tori 2 shows that a simple game doesn't need to be simple-minded, -- I think that's already a lot and deserves credit! It's not the avant-garde of video game design, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't want to be.
I think the game will be featured in my personal top 10 this year, ranking higher than a lot of games that received almost universal acclaim. That's not because these games are cancerous, it's because I really like puzzle games, and Toki Tori 2 is a great puzzle game.
Year Walk was amazing. Legit as hell. So was The Room. Both iOS games.
personally I think people should be more upset that the amazing arcade scene from the 70s/80s/90s is practically dead (at least in the US).
Resogun would have been an amazing arcade game. Many quarters would have been spent.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Wonderful stuff. This needs to be saved and documented.
I don't even...
I enjoy certain cinematic games for that cinematic experience. I don't want them ALL to be cinematic though and I don't want anything of yours to be extinguished except your condescending, superior attitude towards others who don't share your personal tastes. We are not at war here, guy.
freezamite
Banned
It's true that Braid had an exact design that allowed only one solution, I thought you were referring to the fact that in Braid you also have to experiment a bit with your abilities in order to progress.
Regarding Portal and Toki Tori 2, the difference it's like Contra and Metroid.
Yeah, explain that to the Survival Horror crowd. The last one that resembled that was ZombiU and it was immediately trashed for not being a shooter. Yes, it's not a war because traditional gaming is dead outside of a few indies, so it's more like if someone was kicking a dead corpse than an actual fight.Veelk said:
Just what I was saying. Those lists are all Nintendo and indies. Imagine that the movie industry had become all about FX besides one big company that's loosing market quota and some shorts made by independent directors. That's the videogame industry right now.sofiabudapest said:
Kocolino67
Member
Thank you. Try also Thirty Flights of Loving, Cart Life, Limbo, Fez, Monaco, Braid, MirrorMoon EP, and many more.
The PC (and even the console) market is full of adorable and refreshing games. With more variation and eagerness to experiment different with ways and styles of gameplay mechanics than ever.
It's just not true that Nintendo is doing only good gaming and Sony & Microsoft is full of cancer - such obvious very simplified assumptions (which I simplify again) are the reason why everyone is upset of OP.
Spring-Loaded
Member
This style of thread shouldn't be encouraged with legitimate responses.
Tbh, other than the fact that there are other, more significant reasons the Wii U isn't doing well, this post isn't exactly wrong from an industry and media standpoint.
You might want to check out Simogo's new game, DEVICE 6, if you haven't already.
It's a grey / brown cinematic interactive movie corridor shooter, obviously.
i'm at the office right now so i can't but can someone PLEASE print screen and post this embarrassing OP to r/cringepics
this shit is amazing because i think this kid actually believes what he's writing
this shit is amazing because i think this kid actually believes what he's writing
I wish I would have known about this guy before reading the OP. I thought "industry cancers" was going to refer to Season Passes, Always Online, retail exclusive DLC, or something.
OP, next time you want to promote a game that you feel is being overlooked, refrain from bad mouthing games that are well-liked. That's just going to have the opposite affect and make people want to avoid what you're promoting.
This is like the Puppeteer promotion thread from before...only 3 times as bad. At least the creator of that thread just expressed disappointment in Nintendo and left it at that. They didn't feel the need to throw the entire Nintendo fanbase under the bus as well like you just did to people who like Sony games, all while fluanting self-proclaimed superiority.
freezamite said:
Movies aren't specifically for "telling a story." A movie is made to be engaging through any combination of plot or mise en scene or dialogue or whatever else. Games share that same goal but have different (more) tools to get there, and great games today use a lot of these tools in combination just like they did before the Playstation.
d00d3n
Member
I understand your frustration, but you haven't provided a satisfying explanation of what makes the game so unique ...
TheJollyCorner
Member
Please elaborate.
I don't know about that game, but I'm going to assume that people who played it have other complaints about it besides not being a shooter. And besides that, you still have Evil Within coming.
And you misunderstand my point. I agree there are a lot of things the industry does wrong, but you're not going after the industry, you are going after fans, saying we suck for not liking what you like. You're making it out that we are enemies. We, as in us, because we like different things. That is insane. I don't like survival horror, but I would prefer to see it thrive rather than have it dead in the ditches like it is now. I have no animosity towards survival horror whatsoever even though I don't care for it at all. Likewise, I don't want to see the games you want crash and burn. But your attitude clearly makes the feeling not mutual. I guess, in simple terms, I'm asking you to be less of a dick about the whole thing.
This.
I haven't played Toki Tori. I don't know if I ever will. Not due to OP of course, that's silly.
It just never really seemed to fit my style of gameplay. I have a hard time of playing puzzle games without it making me feel stupid...
I loved Meteos, but Im still scared to play-through Portal in fear of never finishing it... Lol
Off-Kilter
Banned
OP you wanna try that again without all the condescending bullshit?
All that you like of this game is already in Knytt Underground for Pc, Ps3 and Vita, the entire op applies to Knytt Underground too, so if you can buy it
I didn't know that Toki Tori 2 was an open world game, the first one was a common puzzle game right? If TT2 will get a Vita version i'll buy it for sure
I have another contender for you, gotyGAF.
No, really, OPs point what we don't have the games which require players to learn how to play or what? I'm having troubles following him.
No, really, OPs point what we don't have the games which require players to learn how to play or what? I'm having troubles following him.
SpecialAgentZ
Member
lol @ hyper sensitive people in this thread.
I will check this game. Caught my attention.
There's some content difference between the Steam and Wii U versions?
I will check this game. Caught my attention.
There's some content difference between the Steam and Wii U versions?
It's no secret that one of the major reason why budgets have ballooned so much in recent years is because of the push for bleeding-edge graphics and "Oscar-worthy" storytelling. And how GTA4 got 10's across the board almost solely for the latter. Don't forget the constant the graphics look good "for a Wii game" that was parroted throughout the media. Or how people have absolute meltdowns because a TV antenna or a truckbed railing wasn't rendered at a certain resolution. Or how "resolutiongate" was almost the sole focus of this console launch, both in the media and on GAF. Also, how more gameplay-focused games are criticized for "too gamey," or how "game overs are a sign of bad design," or how genres like platformers "aren't worth $60," or how a game on Kickstarter couldn't possibly need a $100,000 budget because it's "just a 2D fighter". So I guess it applies from a GAF standpoint too.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
For such a bold claim, you sure did an awful job of explaining why I should care.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Firstly, I want to warm the majority of posters of this site, "the videogames are cool thanks to the PlayStation" crowd, this won't be the game you're imagining now.
Not only that, but you will find it a "boring", "kiddy", "nerdy" game. In other words, this is a game which relies on gaming mechanics to be as impressive as it is.
But which game is that?
Hey dude what's that shit? We're my weapons bro?
I hate your attitude, this isn't Gamefaqs.
Imperfected
Member
Do you really not see the inherent hypocrisy in saying that people are unable to recognize game mechanics because of the cute, kiddy aesthetics of a game, and then going on a rant in which you constantly insist that "mature" or "violent" games inherently lack game mechanics?
Please, tell me this is just a schtick. Tell me you did not just spaz out this mess of an OP decrying people for their inability to look beyond a game's aesthetics to see the underlying mechanics while constantly, mindlessly failing to look beyond an entire genre's aesthetics to see the underlying game mechanics.
I want to live in the best of all possible worlds. I want my reality to include a quietly brilliant Kaufman-esque satire and not someone who could actually have written that post completely oblivious to what they were doing. I'm just going to choose to believe that is the case.
megabytecr
Member
I would not go that far to call it "industry cancer". Sometimes I am in the mood for those kinds of games, like Uncharted series.
About the game I will check it out someday, just that my playing time is very limited.
I just want to comment on two things.
1. A lot of studios dying between the start of last gen and today. Some of this studios died as part of "natural selection" due to the end product(s) delivered or the genres or IP not clicking with gamers. Don't want to discuss what caused these studios to die, the thing is that there are less studios and budgets have grown, so devs and pubs have to go with what sells the most and play it as safe as possible. That is somewhat sad as independent of if we enjoy the games or not, creativity is somewhat limited in the AAA space. This is the reason why Indie devs are so important and their games have been embraced so much (mainly on the PC side). We have AAA games and indies games, the B tier games have mostly disappeared. I really hope that this gen we see either indies getting a bit bigger to tackle some B tier games, or AAA studios having small teams deliver this types of games, like Call of Juarez Gunslinger or Far Cry Blood Dragon where they can take risks and deliver innovative gameplay. If succesful they can implement those mechanics in higher budget games.
2. We live in a fast pace world, Work Work Work Internet Internet TV TV, not so much time to game. This is most people now and this type of lifestyle tends to favor quick play games. We still have very deep games but I think the industry tends to favor games that are good for quick play sessions.
About the game I will check it out someday, just that my playing time is very limited.
I just want to comment on two things.
1. A lot of studios dying between the start of last gen and today. Some of this studios died as part of "natural selection" due to the end product(s) delivered or the genres or IP not clicking with gamers. Don't want to discuss what caused these studios to die, the thing is that there are less studios and budgets have grown, so devs and pubs have to go with what sells the most and play it as safe as possible. That is somewhat sad as independent of if we enjoy the games or not, creativity is somewhat limited in the AAA space. This is the reason why Indie devs are so important and their games have been embraced so much (mainly on the PC side). We have AAA games and indies games, the B tier games have mostly disappeared. I really hope that this gen we see either indies getting a bit bigger to tackle some B tier games, or AAA studios having small teams deliver this types of games, like Call of Juarez Gunslinger or Far Cry Blood Dragon where they can take risks and deliver innovative gameplay. If succesful they can implement those mechanics in higher budget games.
2. We live in a fast pace world, Work Work Work Internet Internet TV TV, not so much time to game. This is most people now and this type of lifestyle tends to favor quick play games. We still have very deep games but I think the industry tends to favor games that are good for quick play sessions.
Great post, freezamite! I hope you've seen all of my posts recommending Toki Tori 2+ and how you would be saddened if I failed to recommend it.
BTW, any idea how to contact Two Tribes? I emailed them a question about Edge (to their customer service email) but haven't heard back....
BTW, any idea how to contact Two Tribes? I emailed them a question about Edge (to their customer service email) but haven't heard back....
Blake'sGrave
Member
this thread:
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
That didn't initiate with the PS1, mind you.
bigwinnerx
Member
freezamite
Banned
I can't properly judge Knytt Undergound but for what I've seen they are not the same. Knytt Underground is more about exploration, platforming and puzzles are less integrated.2+2=5 said:All that you like of this game is already in Knytt Underground for Pc, Ps3 and Vita, the entire op applies to Knytt Underground too, so if you can buy it
But what's most important to me, you are always aware of what you lack to reach a certain area which isn't the case in Toki Tori 2+.
Edit: It's not the same. I wouldn't say Knytt Undergound revolutionized anything despite I see why someone could consider it a good game.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I see some are not used, not to the attitude of the message, but it not being the usual games/genre benefiting from the message.
Grover Cleveland
Member
We get it OP, you don't like big-budget, high aesthetic, cinematic games. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion.
But just know that you will never endear yourself to anyone taking such a militant stance on this. You want to try and convince people to see your point of view, talk to them. Don't talk down at them like with this OP.
Your purpose would have been much better served with something along the lines of
"Hey, I really like this game and I think you guys should try it out too." No console wars, no insulting people who don't subscribe to your views, no calling people cancers because they play certain types of games.
But just know that you will never endear yourself to anyone taking such a militant stance on this. You want to try and convince people to see your point of view, talk to them. Don't talk down at them like with this OP.
Your purpose would have been much better served with something along the lines of
"Hey, I really like this game and I think you guys should try it out too." No console wars, no insulting people who don't subscribe to your views, no calling people cancers because they play certain types of games.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
GTA5 is actually one of the best playing games of the generation. In multiple genres, no less.
no that's the brilliant part of the OP - he is the True Gamer, for having played a game pre-1997, and we are all Call of Duty fans who only play video games to look cool
or something
he didn't convey anything very well, outside of his own sense of false superiority and lack of personableness
but then how will we know that he's smarter than the bros?