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PastaPadre: Virtual Currency Threatens Future of the NBA2K Series

pastapadre

Neo Member
I tried to play a game yesterday and Kobe was missing. I was like "WTF he actually comes back in real life and you take him out of the game?" Does anyone know what this about? I tried to search but 2K's fucking UI and menu's are so goddamn awful and have been since the Dreamcast days. Seriously can't you guys hire a fucking designer?

He's back in the roster update that actually came out today.

The irony of this is that Kobe was available in the roster until December 6 when 2K released their first roster update (it had not been updated with a transaction since mid-October). So they deactivated Kobe for the few days around his actual return.
 

Phreaker

Member
This shit is going to have to be top priority for every review this generation. If full price games are altered in a way to get you to spend additional money to enjoy said game, like a free to play game with IAP, we really need to know to be an informed consumer. If the IAP stuff is there for people that don't care to play the game, that's one thing, but how can it not be brought up during game design? Seems like a huge conflict of interest.
 

Ridley327

Member
Wait, there is a car in Forza 5 that costs $100 real money to purchase?

It can if you're not willing to put up with the grind to get in-game credits. The problem is that right now, the grind is so unbearably slow and long that it makes it all the more tempting to splurge on a credits pack to help ease the pain, and with how expensive some of those cars are, you can easily spend that much money to get there. Turn 10 is making adjustments to the rate in-game credits are handed out soon, so it hopefully will be a lot less evil than it currently is.
 

Shinjiru

Member

It can if you're not willing to put up with the grind to get in-game credits. The problem is that right now, the grind is so unbearably slow and long that it makes it all the more tempting to splurge on a credits pack to help ease the pain, and with how expensive some of those cars are, you can easily spend that much money to get there. Turn 10 is making adjustments to the rate in-game credits are handed out soon, so it hopefully will be a lot less evil than it currently is.
Thanks for the replies.

Hopefully they get this shit sorted out. I really enjoy Forza and Gran Turismo but grinding to get enough credits to buy all the cars I wanted took me a long time from what I remember of GT5. That sucks if it's even worse in GT6 to tempt you into buying a credits pack.
 
VC is NOT only in MyCareer or MyTeam, it's also essential to the MyGM mode or what was traditionally the single player Franchise mode. The biggest single player mode in the game. VC is needed to progress throughout every mode in the game.
 
VC is NOT only in MyCareer or MyTeam, it's also essential to the MyGM mode or what was traditionally the single player Franchise mode. The biggest single player mode in the game. VC is needed to progress throughout every mode in the game.

yeah, you also need it to purchase every single player individually if you wanna use them in blacktop.


is creating custom teams gone this year too?
 
I believe it was 2K12 when the money system was implemented(correct me if im wrong) and that year everything was perfectly fine. Playing MyPlayer you were awarded money every two weeks as a salary, and that money could be used to upgrade your player. Similar to how things are now with the VC. The only difference is that back then you could easily EARN your money, whereas now playing barely earns you anything. 2K13 wasn't as bad either. 2K13 was a mix of 12 and 14 in that it had VC but you could still earn fairly easily. but with 2K14 damn you can barely earn anything, the whole system is designed for you to purchase VC versus earning it.

Personally I don't mind micro-transactions when they are implemented in a way that doesn't interrupt the core gameplay. But 2K just ruined things this year.
 

BadAss2961

Member
I believe it was 2K12 when the money system was implemented(correct me if im wrong) and that year everything was perfectly fine. Playing MyPlayer you were awarded money every two weeks as a salary, and that money could be used to upgrade your player. Similar to how things are now with the VC. The only difference is that back then you could easily EARN your money, whereas now playing barely earns you anything. 2K13 wasn't as bad either. 2K13 was a mix of 12 and 14 in that it had VC but you could still earn fairly easily. but with 2K14 damn you can barely earn anything, the whole system is designed for you to purchase VC versus earning it.

Personally I don't mind micro-transactions when they are implemented in a way that doesn't interrupt the core gameplay. But 2K just ruined things this year.
I don't know about the MyPlayer stuff, but the 650 VC I get after each win has been good enough for my MyGM.
 

Derrick01

Banned
I don't know about the MyPlayer stuff, but the 650 VC I get after each win has been good enough for my MyGM.

It's good enough at the start when things are cheap, but when you start needing well over 1000 for an upgrade or 2000+ for a new facility it gets out of control fast. You need to play and win like 5-7 games to be able to afford something.
 

Klocker

Member
The only mode I play is "season" (hidden in gm) and it requires not a dime of vc to play.

The on court game is incredible and that mode is old school mode, but I can see how people who are into online my player and gm modes are pissed but I enjoy the game without them. Never liked that stuff, just on court.

They need to rethink that whole vc thing...it does lock my out when it "says" it loses online connection though which sucks
 

hitmon

Member
Ended up trading the game in. The lack of association and its local couch co-op in the PS4 version really killed it for me. VC was just part of the problem.
 

BadAss2961

Member
It's good enough at the start when things are cheap, but when you start needing well over 1000 for an upgrade or 2000+ for a new facility it gets out of control fast. You need to play and win like 5-7 games to be able to afford something.
I'm okay with that as far as MyGM goes. It should take at least 2-3 full seasons worth of grinding before you have all the best facilities and everything.

I'm about 35 games into my first season, with maybe about 15 quick and online games worth of collecting VC points before I started MyGM. So let's say i've played a little over 50 games. I'm already a level 30/70 GM, and have earned plenty of perks that weren't available before they put together this system. My team is already far better than was the case at this point in previous editions.

If I play to the middle of a second season, i'll already have mostly all of what I want in GM perks, and be well into the business side at that point.
 

Kai

Member
People play games differently I guess. I went MyGM and chose instead to just run the season mode (you can tab over and just do a season mode instead of the whole GM stuff). I chose to edit the league so I can put in the 96 Bulls instead of the current bulls and play as them.

This way I don't have to use the VC for anything - so it doesn't bother me. What does bother me though is that it has a basically game breaking bug right now where you can't choose team playbooks (ie I can't use the 96 Bulls playbook and run the triangle) every team defaults to the 76er playbook - which is super annoying.
 

CrapSandwich

former Navy SEAL
Damn you people are late to the party. It's essentially the same setup as with 2K13. The only workaround is to not play the game, bank a bunch of free VC from the companion app (about 1500 or so VC per day), and start once you've got a nice bankroll and your player isn't the worst to ever step foot on the court. I've already got all my perks at least started, and when I start playing in a couple weeks, my player will be pretty decent and on a fast track to greatness (which is a whole different problem, because at least in 2K13, your player could become so incredibly overpowered that it destroyed the challenge). All that being said, it is absolute bullshit and this game SHOULD have been skewered in reviews for said transgressions.
 

Omega

Banned
Damn you people are late to the party. It's essentially the same setup as with 2K13. The only workaround is to not play the game, bank a bunch of free VC from the companion app (about 1500 or so VC per day), and start once you've got a nice bankroll and your player isn't the worst to ever step foot on the court. I've already got all my perks at least started, and when I start playing in a couple weeks, my player will be pretty decent and on a fast track to greatness (which is a whole different problem, because at least in 2K13, your player could become so incredibly overpowered that it destroyed the challenge). All that being said, it is absolute bullshit and this game SHOULD have been skewered in reviews for said transgressions.

when one buys a game, unless you're xelios or JaseC, it's usually with the intent to play the game.

Meaning, nobody wants to pay $60 for a game to have to farm credits on a fucking side app in order to be able to enjoy the game they already bought.
 

BadRNG

Member
this just isn't true.

I saw my friend play two games perfectly, they won, he would get like 30/11/8 and he would lose minutes.
That's due to scripted BS tied with the dynamic goal system. It has nothing to do with VC.

You actually earn more than enough VC for your player in MyCareer, even on easier difficulties with the low multiplier. You can get insane amounts on higher difficulties.
 
The number of emails and tweets I have received about this, and the discussion threads in various places, is really significant. Just hasn't gained traction with the major media sites for whatever reason. Honestly I'm not sure if the reviewers or columnists at those publications - who usually aren't really fans of the genre or sometimes even sports in general - have been able to recognize what this VC system means to consumers.

You made a critical mistake on relying on the gaming press to cover anything not force fed by publishers PR

Reviews for this game made it seem like no big deal, the second a paying customer picked up the game they saw the game breaking flaw

Makes you wonder
 

elcapitan

Member
when one buys a game, unless you're xelios or JaseC, it's usually with the intent to play the game.

Meaning, nobody wants to pay $60 for a game to have to farm credits on a fucking side app in order to be able to enjoy the game they already bought.

Not to mention, said side app is broken as hell.
 

CB3

intangibles, motherfucker
When i got the game i went into the Franchise mode (whatever the fuck 2k calls it) and saw that you needed to pay VC coins just to mess with rotations. I stopped playing that mode right then and there.

2K has been getting by with sub-par support for proper working online modes and leagues but i figured id give 2k14 on PS4 a shot. Huge mistake.

I wish i were surprised that these things were slipping by mainstream game sites and coverage and reviews.
 
I'm perfectly fine with these games doing these things, just like I'd be content with these businesses going bankrupt. Not buying the game sends a much stronger message than asking for them to spit first.
 
VC is all pooled together regardless of mode. So if you spend VC in MyCareer, you'll be less able to proceed successfully in MyGM or MyTeam. In MyGM there are things you are essentially required to purchase. Meaning your pool of VC dwindles and you will have less to spend in another mode. Dilemmas will arise eventually.

If you stick to one single mode, and play all the games and perform well enough to bring in decent amounts of VC, you'll probably be alright. But the game is designed in a manner to push you to points where you feel the need to supplement with purchases of VC.

If you play My Player, or My GM it is most prevalent. I've only dabbled in My Player, so someone will need to fill in the blanks on that mode but I know you have to use VC to buy clothes, change your jumpshot animation, etc. In My Gm, everything costs VC. Oh you want to give your player a pep talk because his morale is low? VC. Upgrade your facilities? VC. Train your players before the next season starts? VC, etc. etc. etc. It's a cash grab of the highest order.

i see. ugh. thanks for the insight, gentlemen.

so you CAN earn VC in the game...but it tends to not be enough to supplement what you'd like to do across the multiple modes of play where VC is required. I think I got it.

So 2K is now a grind game like Forza/Gran Turismo/Diablo/Borderlands? Grind lite?
 

demolitio

Member
It's sad considering how good the core game is but these companies are basically testing the waters in the beginning of the generation to see what they can get away with. It just reminds me how bad reviewers are at actually critiquing the games and properly handling these situations to make sure gamers are aware. That way, people who don't like it can skip out on it and the publishers can realize the potential money lost or dive even deeper into insanity and do it even more until they ruin their own franchise. We should demand higher quality of the people who represent the gamers too. It's been how long since online has been decent in the 2K series and yet it's still not brought up? They don't bring up horrible mobile gaming practices in full-priced console games?

While the shit was even more evident after the patch, there were still a lot of things that should have been questioned and covered before that.

I'm just glad that I mostly play exhibition games and myCareer but that doesn't mean I don't find the rest infuriating because we can see the start of a trend that will only get worse as time goes on due to the lack of coverage over it, people defending it, and the fact that some of these games have the market locked down to the point where it's your only choice for that sort of game.

The writing's on the wall and it's whether or not the media stands up for gamers or continues to plead the fifth for their own stupid reasons. Then again, most of them are probably handed free boosters and other MTA shit when they review the game so they love it since they can review it faster. I mean, if reviewers can judge a game without playing its MP and then just saying they saw it enough to form an opinion, then we know we're screwed when it comes to proper reviews and journalism so I'm sure a lot of them would welcome anything that gets them further in a game by spending money.
 
Oh man I started writing up an op last night for this exact issue and now someone has sort of done it for me. Here's some user experience from me. (It's the op pasted, sorry :D) -- it's sort of half done and the intro still lacks cohesion but I cba finishing it.
This is going to focus on myplayer mode, because the shared pool of vc has prevented me from making any significant headway in the running of a franchise(myGm).

What I find really intriguing about these virtual economies is that playtime can actually be assigned monetary value -- e.g you play for this long and have earned this much virtual value which can be juxtaposed with actual real world incomes for fun and science! NBA2K 14 uses virtual currency, or (VC) for short. To keep the math simple I'm just comparing the largest VC pack available to extract representative value -- It's 80.000 VC for 19,99$.(20$ because I'm lazy and decimal places suck.) So some simple back of the napkin math indicates 1$ is roughly equal to 4000VC. On the superstar difficulty which (multiplies earnings by 1.5)with 8 minute quarters and a great ingame performance(you make less VC if you're bad or playing on a lower difficulty) you make roughly 500VC per 30 minutes. Some extrapolation then tells us you make roughly 1$ every 4 hours of gametime -- 2$ for a full working day. 10$ for 40 hours -- 20$ for 80 hours. To make an equivalent amount VC that you'd gain from the pack, you'd have to play NBA2K14 for 80 hours(and you'd have to be playing well). This does not take into account time spent in menu's, looking at rosters or wasted restarting after a crash. It also does not take into account lack of player skill which makes the VC earnings drop very sharply.

You could do 2 hours and 45 minutes of 7.25$ an hour minimum wage work and earn the equivalent of spending those 80 hours. At that point your player will still be around 40k VC away from maxing out his stats -- meaning you'd have to spend an additional 40 hours playing. At which point you'd still need to purchase signature shots/animations/signature skills and clothing which at a minimum will take up atleast another 40k (and could spiral out to be much much more). So you're looking at a minimum of 160 hours of dedicated grinding (without menu's or any distractions -- which would obviously inflate that number even more) to get a maxed out myplayer to ball with. Or you know 40$ which you can earn in 5 hours and 30 minutes flipping burgers for your local fast food restaurant.

I overshot all of these estimations in 2K's favour, from time spent playing a match to the eventual payout because they're actually higher and lower respectively -- also keep in mind I'm fairly decent at this game because putting up good stats on superstar isn't that hard for me, a beginner will struggle much more and can see that income cut in half or worse. Honestly unless you feel like you'll actually want to spend in excess of 200 hours playing this I wouldn't get it. This game has been made completely inaccesible to casual players unless they are willing to pay, and that's honestly the biggest shame of all.
 

AwShucks

Member
The virtual currency pooling from all modes and hindering progress honestly seems like a design flaw rather than being truly intentional. Like sure I can see them thinking somewhat along those lines but I highly doubt they intentionally made it so difficult it would piss off consumers. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of this patched to address concerns.
 
Play on Hall of Fame and get put on a bad team and turn them into a dynasty. fixed

plus MyCareer has a "storyline" this year unlike years prior

So everyone who can't play on HOF and make a garbage team great should just not buy or play this game? I don't know the stats but I doubt the majority of people that purchase these games play on HOF. The storyline is also broken, it crashes if you wear the wrong shoes for a cutscene(which you bought with vc), it plays cutscenes multiple times but you can't skip them, and my favourite part is the lolworthy logic that result from that storyline. It's great you wanted to make an indepth storyline about becoming a starter 2K but I wish you'd actually start me if PG#1 goes out for the season instead of scouring our roster for a 66ovr rated sub, while my 80ovr myplayer pg rides the bench.
 

NoPiece

Member
I'm perfectly fine with these games doing these things, just like I'd be content with these businesses going bankrupt. Not buying the game sends a much stronger message than asking for them to spit first.

Yeah, but the problem is that this thread is the first time I'm hearing or reading about it. You have to know not to buy it before you buy it.
 
The number of emails and tweets I have received about this, and the discussion threads in various places, is really significant. Just hasn't gained traction with the major media sites for whatever reason. Honestly I'm not sure if the reviewers or columnists at those publications - who usually aren't really fans of the genre or sometimes even sports in general - have been able to recognize what this VC system means to consumers.

It's clear that the major media sites are given free VC to play around with the game and experience the features. Ryan from IGN mentioned this in a video that he got a bunch of VC in order to check out the MyTeam mode. What he didn't see was that the price on those packs is ludicrous, it would take you more than 3 hours of gametime just to buy a basic pack, and there are over 500 players to get. It's mind boggling.
 
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