.
Seriously, for all the faults with Bioshock Infinite, I'd rate its audio logs as one of the least distracting. I find audio logs a fun way of discovering more of the setting bit by bit without the game forcing me.
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Story spamming through audio and text logfiles needs to stop
- Thread starter Thrakier
- Start date
Seriously, for all the faults with Bioshock Infinite, I'd rate its audio logs as one of the least distracting. I find audio logs a fun way of discovering more of the setting bit by bit without the game forcing me.
gigantor21
Member
Yeah, I found it particularly headscratching in Infinite. Half the shit people recorded was really incriminating stuff they wouldn't dare take out of the house (or record to begin with, for that matter), and several times I'd end up having to replay it back because of other stuff being a distraction. Indeed, that was a problem that came up with in-game dialouge as well.
I feel that avoiding cutscenes can hurt story presentation more than it can help.
I feel that avoiding cutscenes can hurt story presentation more than it can help.
I like audio logs and radio voice-over. For setting the tone, providing motivation, reason etc, they are far superior to their alternatives. Cutscenes and text displays interrupt gameplay, while audio logs don't, when done properly.
The actual problem is that we have no moderation in story telling anymore. Teams are too big. Too many sub-par writers all trying to leave their mark on the product just creates an abundance of useless pseudo-flavour. Even so, audio is still clearly a superior delivery method.
Doom 3 and Dead Space 1 are excellent examples of well-done integration of story and gameplay. You can take or leave the narrative, and you can literally keep moving while you consume it. Gameplay comes first.
Remember Me OTOH was utterly offensive, laden with throwaway lore, thousand-character infodump essays about a whole lot of nothing, constant barrage of cut-scenes, and neverending intrusions on player agency. It may not be the worst offender of all time, but of all the games I've played this year, it pissed me off the most.
The actual problem is that we have no moderation in story telling anymore. Teams are too big. Too many sub-par writers all trying to leave their mark on the product just creates an abundance of useless pseudo-flavour. Even so, audio is still clearly a superior delivery method.
Doom 3 and Dead Space 1 are excellent examples of well-done integration of story and gameplay. You can take or leave the narrative, and you can literally keep moving while you consume it. Gameplay comes first.
Remember Me OTOH was utterly offensive, laden with throwaway lore, thousand-character infodump essays about a whole lot of nothing, constant barrage of cut-scenes, and neverending intrusions on player agency. It may not be the worst offender of all time, but of all the games I've played this year, it pissed me off the most.
This pretty much sums up the situations where I prefer this style of story. Plus it cuts down on cutscenes and other stuff that gets in the way of replaying the game.
The big thing that does piss me off about it's use is when giant plot twists are obviously revealed during them and yet characters still act completely surprised when something that was pretty blatantly stated hours ago finally happens. If logs do reveal important information it would be nice if character knowing that actually changes the plot a bit (or even requires you to act on that a bit to change the course of things), even if it's something small like the way Halo ODST had a few slightly different lines of dialogue if you found all the logs.
Another pointless AAA money-sink when most players who care will have read through the text before the voice even gets a quarter of the way through it.
Dear devs,
If you're keen on story exposition via text alone, it might be worthwhile to shape it in such a way that the audiovisual cues all help reinforce the exposition, rather than have the game play independently as the story is still unfolding, in order to avoid unnecessary distractions. Doing otherwise runs the risk of losing the player's focus on the story, which is fine if you don't consider your story important.
I really liked Lost Odyssey's 'audio logs'. They were the best parts of the game, and way better than the main story. They're probably the main reason I tolerated the game until the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv_yNn72aeQ
If you're keen on story exposition via text alone, it might be worthwhile to shape it in such a way that the audiovisual cues all help reinforce the exposition, rather than have the game play independently as the story is still unfolding, in order to avoid unnecessary distractions. Doing otherwise runs the risk of losing the player's focus on the story, which is fine if you don't consider your story important.
I really liked Lost Odyssey's 'audio logs'. They were the best parts of the game, and way better than the main story. They're probably the main reason I tolerated the game until the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv_yNn72aeQ
EventHorizon
Member
I believe the whole idea of it is that it is an optional addition to the game for completist. If you don't like them then don't pick them up. They are relatively inexpensive to add so it is not a matter of audio logs or traditional cutscenes, it's a matter of audio logs or nothing at all.
Nothing at all would probably help the story more. And the "don't take it then" argument is shit. It's like implementing cheats or super powers in a very hard game and state "well don't use it". 90% of players will and it shapes the experience.
Because most people arent illiterate. Text is underrated in games.
I have no problem with audio logs. What I really don't like is when they play in the background while I continue to play normally. I'd rather have them stop the game to play them.
Or even better, just drop the audio and put them in as text. There's too much talking in modern games anyway.
Or even better, just drop the audio and put them in as text. There's too much talking in modern games anyway.
BloodMoney
Banned
They have a purpose in some game. For example, System Shock 2 nailed audio log delivery.
I like the way you think.
I like the idea of having something to listen to while exploring an area, and audio logs can be a good tool for world-building. What I don't like is when you get jumped by an enemy 30 seconds into a log, and if you want to hear the end you need to listen to the whole damn thing again. So most of the time I end up just having to stand still or in a pause menu.
Currywurst
Member
I hate these thing so much. I want to get sucked into the game story, but these things won't let you. Every few steps a stupid voice talks and bring you out of the experience. You start to fight some guys, but the voice is still talking. Nah, this can't work.
Nostremitus
Member
I agree, the Metroid Prime games are the perfect example of doing them right. They are text and completely optional. Like anything good, though, there will be dozens of attempts that fail. Audio logs that autoplay are the worst.
Coincidentally Doom 3 had one of my favorite implementations of the audio / text log stuff by way of the PDA's. Maybe because the game wasn't as hectic regarding combat as newer games like Bioshock Infinite giving you a satisfactory distraction from the dark corridors etc, or maybe because they felt like a genuine part of the world as opposed to the relatively shoehorned desire to fit them in as a backstory vector I don't know. They were interesting, even when they were just some guy moaning about his event-less day at work, and you were often rewarded for paying attention to the info contained within them in the form of cabinet codes or what not.
Bioshock Infinite is by far the worst. *listening to what probably is interesting backsto-" HEY BOOKER!, there's a lockpick over there......
FOOL! Seriously though, some Deus Ex emails are pure gold.
GHermann (GHermann//UNATCO.15431.76513) wrote:
>Might I sugest agin, a skul-gun for my head.
>Yesterday in Batery Park, some scum we all know
>pushes smack for NSF gets jumpy and draws. I take
>2 .22's, 1 in flesh, 1 in augs, befor I can get out
>that dam asalt gun.
>
>If I could kil just by thought, it would be beter.
>Is it my job to be a human target-practis backstop?
>
>Gunther Hermann
>Might I sugest agin, a skul-gun for my head.
>Yesterday in Batery Park, some scum we all know
>pushes smack for NSF gets jumpy and draws. I take
>2 .22's, 1 in flesh, 1 in augs, befor I can get out
>that dam asalt gun.
>
>If I could kil just by thought, it would be beter.
>Is it my job to be a human target-practis backstop?
>
>Gunther Hermann
Audios logs and 'text files' are an ideal way to expand a story, in my opinion. It's an optional way for people to read/discover more about the world they're traversing through without the story punching you in the face constantly. It also makes the game more inviting for a replay. Both due to the fact you can scavenge for information you might have missed. But also so you can just rush through the second time, if you like.
Another way I really enjoy is Portal's way. By putting signs and computer screens with information behind windows, or something alike. Like the Powerpoint presentations at Aperture showing their financial situation compared to Black Mesa. It gives a somewhat rewarding feeling to the player for exploring the map when they discover new tidbits of information.
(Yes I know Portal didn't invent this, but it's the most memorable one for me at the moment)
Another way I really enjoy is Portal's way. By putting signs and computer screens with information behind windows, or something alike. Like the Powerpoint presentations at Aperture showing their financial situation compared to Black Mesa. It gives a somewhat rewarding feeling to the player for exploring the map when they discover new tidbits of information.
(Yes I know Portal didn't invent this, but it's the most memorable one for me at the moment)
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Good use of Journal Entries/Audio Logs etc = Open world game dedicated to exploration so when player stumbles upon some area, it is given some context. Not all the context to dispel all mystery, just some. Or a plot driven game where the logs build on the world you're in and have nothing to do with the main plot.
Bad use of Journal Entries/Audio Logs = Plot driven game where the logs are integral to understanding the main plots story.
Bad use of Journal Entries/Audio Logs = Plot driven game where the logs are integral to understanding the main plots story.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
I love finding audio logs and such in games. I think more devs need to embrace this method of storytelling.
But those are examples for immersive storytelling, just like the Deus Ex Mails. It does feel like it belongs here, it does not interrupt the game flow (with bioshock like audio logs, I'm half playing, half listening). The way Infinite and other Bioshocks do it, it's like the developer is talking to you. "I put this for you here, plz consum".
Sorry, but i'm playing games to play them, not to sit and read hours of text, thank you. I can read a book for that. Anything that stops me dead in tracks and stand between me and gameplay is bad.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
With Bioshock 1, they made sense as an extension of System Shock 2 and a continued reaction against the cutscene. But 5-6 years later, relying on the same device without any real changes (the fact that Booker or Elizabeth don't react to the logs, for example) is just a bit asinine.
It depends really. Sometimes I think that it'd be better if audio/text logs would be better if tied to the narrative in a more meaningful way. Two examples being Bioshock Infinite, in which you could essentially miss huge parts of the story if you didn't go out your way to find them. The other being Resistance 3 which had some of the best most atmospheric writing but ultimately you would have to hunt for it or miss it entirely.
On the flip side, games like Last of Us do it quite well. And surprisingly Killzone Shadow Fall had great Audio Logs. I think it wad due to the controller speaker making them so much more immersive and the lore being quite interesting.
Depends on the game/story.
On the flip side, games like Last of Us do it quite well. And surprisingly Killzone Shadow Fall had great Audio Logs. I think it wad due to the controller speaker making them so much more immersive and the lore being quite interesting.
Depends on the game/story.
Technoweirdo
Member
Hate info dumping in BioShock Infinite, but love it in The Last of Us, personally. Helps that not everything was someone's diary. News articles, pamphlets on Cordyceps and various stages of infection, suicide notes, loot inventory, children's drawings. They naturally belong in the world wherever they're placed, keep the info dumping from going stale by varying the degree of conciseness, and don't take 2 minutes to get to the fucking point unlike audio logs, letting you get back to the game in 10 seconds or less if you're a quick reader.
Er, anyways, agreed. Audio diary dumping needs to stop.
*Insert more TLoU praise for Joel and Ellie commenting on articles here*
Er, anyways, agreed. Audio diary dumping needs to stop.
*Insert more TLoU praise for Joel and Ellie commenting on articles here*
AgentLampshade
Member
I disagree, I've often wondered how a story would unfold if it were up to the player to discover the villains plans through notes, audio logs and vague drawings from minions instead of having the villain justify himself with a poor excuse through a clichéd monologue.
uncledonnie
Banned
Best use of this was the dreams in Lost Odyssey. You didn't need them at all for the main story, but it was incredibly rewarding to find them.
The worst kind are the ones where you go out of your way to hack/unlock it only to find some message between friends like "hey I got tickets to the opera want to go?" "Sure"
...and that's it. Fuck you if you put that pointless garbage in your game and make me work to see it. I'm not a fan of being trolled.
...and that's it. Fuck you if you put that pointless garbage in your game and make me work to see it. I'm not a fan of being trolled.
eh, is watching cutscenes a problem?
No, he's saying that there are better ways to tell the story than simply dumping it on you through constant audiologs that are scattered everywhere. You can tell story through environment, characters interactions, various notes and yes, audio logs, but only if their inclusion makes sense and isn't overused. You don't see people recording everything they do on tapes and leaving said tapes in random places. And it seems that in Bioshock [Infinite] everyone and their mother is born with a tape recorder in their hand.
Also, the implementation of audiologs in Bioshock Infinite is simply bad. If you're putting an audiolog somewhere, then you should make sure that the player will have enough time to listen to the audiolog without the need to stand in place. Instead you are constantly interrupted by battles or Elizabeth talking to you.
I disagree as I like audio and text log files as it allows the game to focus on the gameplay and let the story sink into the background and get the game tell the story in it own way or add background into the story.
Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy and Batman Arkham Asylum did a great job in those department.
Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy and Batman Arkham Asylum did a great job in those department.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Metroid Prime showed that log files, in many ways, are a superior method of storytelling when used properly. Rather than passive cutscenes where control is taken from you and immersion is broken, log files turn story into a gameplay element, like a detective collecting clues. Like anything, they suck if they are poorly implemented, as OP alluded.
Unknown One
Member
I'm interested in seeing what developers do with the speaker on the DS4. Resogun was pretty damn cool with "Save all the humans".
Perhaps put all the audiolog on the speaker and let you play as you normally do.
Perhaps put all the audiolog on the speaker and let you play as you normally do.
Killzone SF does exactly this and it is admittedly pretty cool, although picking one up in the middle of a fire fight makes it impossible to hear what's being said. I have to go to the collectible menu and listen to it manually.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
I disagree. I find text logs (especially: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=731395&highlight=)and audio logs add quite a bit to a game when its mired in some sort of gameplay, lie FPS gameplay, which minimizes the number of interactions with the world you have available to you.
Play Heavy Rain, man. Play Beyond. The story will be told in action, because of choices you make.
Because face it, the main story action of any Bioshock (or FPS) is "one guy shoots hundred of people to get past all these damned locked doors."
Play Heavy Rain, man. Play Beyond. The story will be told in action, because of choices you make.
Because face it, the main story action of any Bioshock (or FPS) is "one guy shoots hundred of people to get past all these damned locked doors."
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I enjoy text and audio logs.
Really missed scanning items and lore in Metroid Other M.
Really missed scanning items and lore in Metroid Other M.
Glass Rebel
Member
Bravely Default has this notebook with tons of diary entries and background information that I regard as absolutely essential to appreciating the story and world. It's a shame that most will judge it based only on what happens during cutscenes.
Unknown One
Member
Sweet. I would like to see Metal Gear do this as well with the codec calls.
It made perfect sense in BioShock Infinite. The game is a parody of satirizing ideas, notions and relationships one doesn't understand, a parody of video game design tropes from the late 90's big budget titles seem unable to shake off. I mean, come on, it's exploring its themes on a level a theme park would (so that it never exceeds the grasp and understanding of a child) in a fucking theme park. How funny is that?! Not one character (or caricature) goes beyond what an animatronic could do. Nothing in the game is integrated in a way that could make you doubt it's anything but flimsily excused by the setting, the story and how it is told. The game is all about having the poise of nobility while wearing threadbare clothes in a rundown shack. They want you to feel vicarious embarrassment for the entire medium every step you take, or rather: as you're on a rollercoaster ride into that feeling's innards, stuck on rails (which again is beautifully and self-deprecatingly symbolized by the sky-lines).
OriginalThinking
Member
Couldn't agree more. It's biggest issue is breaking both gameplay flow and immersion - instead of moving into the next area the perfectionist in me has to hunt around looking for any audio/text stuff lying around. It's at its worse when an NPC says we must hurry to catch x/y/z yet the game wants you to fart around looking for stuff.
I don't think so. The game takes itself seriously. That's clear from interviews with Ken Levine. It wasn't intended to be satire or parody.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
It's not necessarily bad, it needs a BREAK before it becomes horribly dated as "gen 7" and not used again in any level of creativity for another 7 years.