benzy said:

xenosaga ‏@xenosaga7 8h8 hours ago
Interesting that #TheLastGuardian porting process was like PS3->PC->PS4. They also had to create a new engine for PS4.

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cyborg009 said:

He looks like he wasn't working a on the game these past years.

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Kagari said:

I like that it looks the same. Too often do troubled games end up like something else entirely when they finally do come out.

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――I think the E3 trailer included exactly the right amount of news. It got you interested in what will follow and you did get a clear picture of how the game works.

We actually showed another video, different from the trailer, at the E3 show floor with more calm scenes in it. I think you will get an even better picture of the game's feel seeing it. If the right time comes, I would like to show it to all of you.

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Vire said:

What the hell E3 attendees, no reports on this? No shaky cam youtube videos?

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Vire said:

What the hell E3 attendees, no reports on this? No shaky cam youtube videos?

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Agram said:

So you are telling me this guy is 45 years old? HOW?!

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sn00zer said:

Hoooooly shit

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staticneuron said:

I imagined this was an issue. Explains how long this has been taking as well.

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Walpurgis said:

That part is old news. We saw it many years ago.

I wonder why they ported to PC though. That seems very unintuitive.

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sn00zer said:

additional or extended interview?
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/099/1099065/

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Kagari said:

I like that it looks the same. Too often do troubled games end up like something else entirely when they finally do come out.

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――The word "maneater" makes quite an impact, will there be any brutal depictions in the game?

Ueda: There are a lot of things I can't talk about yet, concerning such depictions, I have to leave the answer to your imagination.

――By the way, Toriko, although quite big, has an air of youth around him, will he mature over the course of the game?

Ueda: "Maturity" has a lot of implications to it, which changes await you during the game is something I want everyone to experience while playing the game.

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Kagari said:

I like that it looks the same. Too often do troubled games end up like something else entirely when they finally do come out.

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o What!? Ueda (and the team) were trying to speed things up!?

――Still, it's seven years since the first announcement and ten since your last game came out, I'd like to know more about the reasons for the development taking this much time, if that's okay. For example, were there instances where planned things steadily got blown up with new ideas during development, or was it more that the things you planned from the beginning took this much time to create?

The latter really. Looking back, "ICO" took us four years. It was my first work as a director, I had little experience, there were things that we had to do by trial and error and there was the changing of platform too [PS1 => PS2]. Each of these took quite some time.

――Next was SotC on the PS2, right?

At the time of developing SotC the skill of the team had gone up to a certain extent and everyone came forward with ideas, we tried to do something new and challenging with SotC.

This approach also took some time. One thing was the big worldmap, we needed a program that made this possible, the second thing were the two AI characters that had to act smartly (at the same time).

――Two?

The horse of wander, Agro, and each colossus. Both AI's had to act naturally and precisely to the player's actions.

――I see. So since there were two AI characters, there were two tasks that needed to be done, simply speaking….

Right, which took us some time (laughs). So with repentance in mind we thought the next game will be the one where we'll do better.

――Hm? The next game, you say?

Yes, the game design of "Toriko" was thought of in order to shorten the development cycle in comparison to our previous games.

――Heh, so that's how it was!?

Different from SotC we aimed for a more linear approach this time, we thought by doing this we wouldn't need that much time to build the world.

And by concentrating on Toriko regarding AI of non-playable characters we thought we would need less time too, and also be able to up the quality. So the game design of "Toriko" came from our wish to shorten the time of development.

――But then it didn't really turn out that way… (laughs).

…it took us quite some time, yes.

――It's really rude to say this but I'm quite surprised hearing that you worked on the game thinking "let's do this in a timely manner“. I thought to myself that things must have turned out the way they have because you work in a way where you're very particular about everything investing a lot of time to get something right.

I totally understand people having gotten this impression, but that wasn't the case. We're trying to get the game done fast and we always want to deliver it to the people as fast as possible.

――I guess the seven years must have been long for you too then?

It was a long time, yes. The development time of ICO and SotC felt long to me too. The team members and me are quite confident about our abilities, so we talked a lot about being able and needing to develop games more quickly.

――That said, I can't really picture a future wherein your titles get released in quick succession.

I want to develop every single game with great care of course and I want the players to feel strongly about them. Still, it was quite unexpected for us that "Toriko" would take that much time.

――Working so long on the same game, did you encounter times during the development when you wanted to start working on another game?

There were times, yes. There were also time were I thought about actually doing it. Naturally I wasn't working on creative things the whole seven years, there was a also a long time gap in which the game got ported to the PS4 and the creative side totally came to halt.

――Was it hard to keep being motivated about working on "Toriko"? I guess there were times when you got tired of it or even lost the courage to go on.

There were times like this, of course. In those cases you have to get in touch with outstanding creative works. Excellent films or games or anything of high quality.

I was able to keep my motivation by thinking things like "will the game we develop be able to match this" "will our game be able to impress people the same way". I get a good lot of encouragement out of observing the audience being touched (by such works).

――Observing the audience?

Observing the audience seeing a film for example, how they have fun and are touched by what they see. It's a way in which I can reassure myself that there are people that feel the same way I do about those things. It makes me think that I have to give my best as a creator too because there is this audience out there which is looking forward to my work.

I don't know a lot about it but "Star Wars" strikes me as especially great in this regard. I can see that a lot of people are already pretty excited (for the newest film) just by seeing the trailer, and there must be a lot of people who feel very strongly about it thinking "I have to stay alive until I can see this film". I wonder if my games have a similar effect on people.

――You must have come up with a lot of new ideas, there must have been a lot that has piled up in the meantime.

That's correct. But since the game design of "Toriko" had already been finished I didn't have the intention to include new motives/ideas that had come up in the meantime that much. But apart from that there are a lot of new ideas I came up within the last few years, I hope I will be able to make them a reality in the future.

――It looks like you founded the studio Gen Design in order to get more chances than before to make those ideas a reality, are you thinking about maybe doing stuff outside of games too?

I have commented on this before, but concerning my approach to games, it's not that I build a game while having the worldview and story already in place. First I know what game I want to make and from there I come up with a matching story. I think that I wouldn't be good at creating only a world and a story.

[The Famitsu interview has more detailed infos on the reasons for the founding of Gen Design]

――The story and worldview of your games are often featured but hearing what you say I think I can clearly see that your games are not built on the basis of an already existing story. So you build your games by doing the game design first while taking the workload into account and then you build a story on top of it. There might be a lot of people that feel towards this as if the yellow and white part of an egg have been switched.

People often reference the worldview and story of my games but I truly believe that I can only create something starting with the game design first.

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Kagari said:

I like that it looks the same. Too often do troubled games end up like something else entirely when they finally do come out.

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Agram said:

So you are telling me this guy is 45 years old? HOW?!

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Reisläufer;173744094 said:

Here's the next part of the Dengeki (!) interview:

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Reisläufer;173744094 said:

Here's the next part of the Dengeki (!) interview:

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o Everything has its roots in the (game) design

――What lead you to designing games in the first place by the way?

That's a dfificult question. It's only for a few years now actually that I think of myself as a game designer.

――Really?

At the time of SotC I wondered whether it was okay to call myself a game designer. I started my career as a 3D animator.

But when I thought about wanting a character to move in a certain way, I needed a world in which this character existed first. I think that's the only way to go about it.

But doing game design only in regards to this (question of animation), I didn't think of me as a real game designer. I also wasn't sure whether it's generally a good thing to call yourself a game designer.

At "WARP" (a game development firm founded by Eno Kenji, works include: "D no shokutaku ["D"]" "Enemy Zero"), the firm I started my career at, I jumped right into making 3D CG Movies. From there I moved to SCE and was immediately involved in the direction of ICO.

That's why I have never experienced someone teaching me the basics of game development. And that is why my awareness of myself as a game designer is rather thin I guess.

――That said I think everybody thinks of you as a game designer and there is also you're great sense for details. I'd like to know more about you being especially peculiar about things.

Hmm, that's hard too…. In any case, the development of big game titles uses a lot of money and time. That's why I'm trying really hard to develop games that won't end without having attracted any attention by anyone.

――I see you surprisingly very much taking a business stance in this regard.

Since games must be successful commercially I always work on them thinking "I want people to be attracted" "Let's do something that attracts people". If your game hasn't got that something, it will be quietly released, quietly played and it ends the same way (without any fuss around it).

I try my best to avoid such a scenario. That's why I strongly look into making a game with a catch, with something that stands out and try to achieve this by managing the limited resources I have.

――„Something that attracts people“… what about "Toriko" in this regard?

Take for example a fantasy game, if you only put the common types of monsters in it, the chances are high that it will be dismissed as a generic fantasy title.

That's why you should challenge yourself to come up with something new that takes people by surprise. You have to make them feel that something's slightly off in the sense that they have to ask themselves "what is this?". That's the idea under which "Toriko" is developed, trying to attract people's interest.

――I see. This feeling of not being sure about whether Toriko is cute or frightening, brutal or gentle, a cat or a bird, it certainly gets you interested in the game.

This allusion to real cats and birds, it’s actually a way by which I try to attract people that have no interst in games whatsoever.

That said, since I think that people who originally like games wouldn't accept a character that is only cute or one that is only an eccentric design, I have the intention to include also elements that attract those people who like games.

――The scene in which the boy is saved by Toriko's long tail was certainly a design I felt extended a mere gameplay mechanic. But to think that you were working in great detail in order to get to that point.

I try to take everything into account (in order to catch player’s attention) not just the game itself, the title is equally important, the illustration for the game cover, well, all designs in general. In other words, I try to be aware of the necessities surrounding design and shape of the product, while developing the game.

――It's really just my imagination, but I always pictured you as a person who pretty much takes things right out of his head going "That's what I like. Look at what I've come up with!“. But to think that you go that far in making sure that your games sell.

That said, the first person you want to get interested in the game is not someone unspecified but you yourself. Firstly you have to get yourself interested in your idea.

There were times when I was a student when I had lost my passion for games and other times when I was totally into them. So I try to remember both of my past selfs and think about what would have gotten their attention. That's how I go about this.

In this sense I can't really say that I don't operate as you said creating what I like myself.

――Still I think there's also the side to it that even if you only do things to please yourself, it's exactly because you don't compromise in regard to this pursuit that the quality of the product pleases that many users.

I hope that that's the case.


o On the cutting down on freedom in order to make SotC a moving experience

――Concerning your games, I think that their value lies in the fact that they offer an experience that can be appreciated only by playing them yourself. This may well be the foundation of video games in general.

I certainly try to express things that can only be expressed in video games. "Since we're making a game, let's make something that can't be done in novels or films" is what I'm thinking.

I want to create something that isn't thought of as "that might as well have been done in a film or novel", games where people get to experience that "something" that's only possible in games.

――What I personally enjoyed a lot in SotC was the "grip mechanic". What was in the beginning only an action-gage, important in the fights against the colossi, came to have another meaning when I arrived at the game's ending. In that moment I had tears in my eyes, I felt my spine trembling, I clearly realized that that was a feeling you can get only through playing games. I suppose you deliberately created this mechanic (in order to achieve this)?

To be honest, that wasn't the case. It's not like I had the ending of SotC in my head right from the beginning.

It was more like when I had finally made up my mind on how to handle the ending during development, I had the self-realization "so that was what the fighting of the colossi by clinging onto them and climbing them was all about, it was to set the table for being able to express this ending".

I was aware of the "clinging and climbing actions" having an effect of empathy and leading to a sense of reality, but even on me it had that effect that made me feel "okay, I went through all this trouble for the sake of this". To this day I'm still very pleased about this dynamic.

――I guess you could say that SotC is a proper example in regards to creating a feel of empathy that is gained by directly playing the game.

Personally I think that to a part I haven't reached the final answer yet with SotC. I understand video games primarily as "nonfiction" created through a "program“.

In other words, the question is how far you can go inside the realm of what a program can make possible. In this regard SotC's ending hasn't reached that point yet.

――Could you elaborate on that?

If the video game in its truest/ most genuine form is the goal, there should have been the possibility of the ending being overturned and lead in another direction depending on the player's efforts.

Game stories are not (supposed to be) something prerecorded (predetermined), they are created by a program, they are in a way "nonfiction" formed through the player's actions.

――I think I understand what you mean on a theoretical level. Still, when I think about SotC having more than one ending or being able to overturn the original one… I don't know. I don't think it would still have the impact that it had on me.

Well, concerning people being touched when they see a film or a tv series, listen to music, or reading a story, I think those things being impossible to be changed is the very reason for them being moved by a certain work.

That might be especially easy to understand in regards to historical fiction or works of tragical nature. If you see something that can't be fought or changed in any way, that's where the feeling of being moved comes from.

This is a fundamental mechanism of story-telling. Video games differ from this. Since they are precisely not prerecorded, anything is allowed to happen. I think that games should fundamentally be like this.

――I see. But with SotC there is only one possible ending and this ending was predetermined by you.

Exactly. It would have been possible to change the ending to an interactive sequence but I didn't do it. One can say that I simply brought the moving qualities of prerecorded media into the world of games.

I think that what you could call "predetermined art" is just something that games can do too. And with games you have also the element of interaction by which you can raise the amount of empathy.

But for games there has to be a completely different possibility too. Maybe in the future someone will find a way to not use any techniques of the "prerecorded arts" but be able to bring games in their „gameness“ to their full potential and achieve telling a story with even greater impact.

――What you mean is also different from getting several different endings ready depending on player's choice, am I right?

Yes. Since that would only be increasing the amount of different endings, though still prerecorded, and putting them together.

Films and novels start from the surprise felt towards the main or other characters: "why did they act the way they did" "why did they choose to do this or that". The people are primarily moved by the flow of the story, the things happening that can't be avoided.

People wouldn't be moved to the same degree, if what happens in the story could at every point be rewinded and avoided depending on their will.

――I see. So the more "gamey" a game is the further it drifts away from the systems that make people feel moved.

Seen from the viewpoint of traditional stroy-telling, yes. That's why I personally think that games aren't suited as medium for stories (in the traditional sense).

――This is indeed very interesting coming from someone whose games have a place in the hearts of players all around the world.

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――By the way, Toriko, although quite big, has an air of youth around him, will he mature over the course of the game?

Ueda: "Maturity" has a lot of implications to it, which changes await you during the game is something I want everyone to experience while playing the game.

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o The world around games has changed… Mr. Ueda is full of passion!?

――The game business has changed quite a lot in the last few years, smartphone games have become the trend it seems. I recall you saying that smartphones were lacking in regards to having no real buttons. Have your thoughts on this matter changed since then?

Regarding the problem of having buttons or not, my reserves towards them are gone. That said, I feel that with them getting mass appeal the barrier to playing games on devices such as smartphones has been lowered, while the one to playing games on consoles has gone up.

Looking at it just from this side, it seems the trend had only a negative effect on consoles, but I also feel very passionate towards them.

――Oh. You're burning with passion?

The barrier being high leaves you no other choice but to create something that players will want to play even if that means that they have to overcome that barrier. I want to offer an experience to the players even under the condition of having to overcome that barrier of entry.

"Let's go to the cinema, buy popcorn and watch a movie!" having a good time by this chain of events. "Buying a console, buying the game and starting playing" that's the genuine game experience we had when we were young, right?

All those things were part of the "game" in a way. All you can do is go and create something that users want to play no matter what they have to buy in order to be able to enjoy it.

――That said, don't you feel anxious about the current state of the industry in which taking your time in order to meticulously craft a single title has become a thing that runs counter to the norm.

It's more that I feel blessed about my situation of being able to create these console titles in cooperation with SCE. I'm very lucky to get the chance to do this genuine "crafting of things". As a consumer I'm playing mobile games too of course, but since they're something that wasn't available in my youth, I think it would be difficult for me on the side of the manufacturer.

――So can you tell me more about your youth serving as point of reference?

It's exactly about films and games. I guess it's about the joy I got out of saving money and using that money on things that were worth it in order to get my hands on entertainment of high quality. This feeling of excitement is the formative experience of my youth and my driving force (ever since).

I think that it is exactly for the sake of wanting to let the youth of today experience this same feeling I experienced back then that I'm creating games now.

――If you were being told "make a game application for smartphones", what would you do?

Well, it's possible that I wouldn't be able to refuse. But since the experiences from my childhood and as a student really come down to finally being able to see or play something that was hard to get my hands on, I think I would have to renew my thoughts on games/entertainment first.

――This line of thinking shows that the generation in which you enjoyed video games is maybe not completely different from the current one after all. Consoles have their specific high barriers to them, people who are not conscious about them naturally hesitate to buy one. But for people being interested in them, they are something they absolutely want to own.

Besides, we have a great ongoing rivalry between mobile games and indie games and the like at the moment. For them to create something that catches the users attention and also something that lasts, I think it's certainly a hard thing to accomplish. I think you can say that the rivalry between console games has gone down accordingly.

――I'm also thinking that an important part in the entertainment business are those different/special worldviews that will be achieved in the struggle to overcome barriers of entry. Disneyland strikes me as a clear example of that.

I know what you mean. If you visit Disneyland it's like entering into a different world, it's a space densely packed with entertainment.

Talking about games, I think it's through ritual like actions like turning on the console and sitting down in front of the tv that you can better enter into the world (of the game).

I very much like cinemas, but if you watch a film in the cinema or at home, although it's the same film, the two experiences are different in absolute terms.

――A lot of people are looking forward to your game giving them this sensation of immersion, I think. It is exactly because they have to overcome the barriers of money and time that the game and the experience transcends entertainment as mere distraction. I think your game will get proper recognition from the people who crave for a game they really want to play amidst these many games that are played in order to kill time.

I really hope that that's the way things will go. I don't think my games are for everyone, but I'd like to keep creating games with the strong desire to reach as many of them as possible.


o To people wanting to become like Ueda

――You mentioned the genuine "crafting of things" before, I feel we live in a time where a lot of people are not able to do this kind of work, where a lot of people are not in the position to commit to this genuine "crafting of things". That you are able to be in this position you're in today seems to me a very fortunate thing indeed. Is there some kind of trick in the way of thinking or in the way of living that helped you getting to where you are today.

Let's see… I think in the end it was maybe a matter of luck for the most part.

I think me doing game design as a director came from this pattern: "making something I thought users would positively react to => users actually reacting positively to it".

If I shouldn't be able to pull this off anymore, I can always go back to being a 3D animator, that's how I think about it.

――It doesn't seem like you are particularly attached to being a game director.

Perhaps me not clinging to this position is exactly why I'm able to occupy it, that might play a big part in it.

I don't think I want to keep doing game direction if the result of me creating what I want to create no longer appeals to the users.

I think I've said that I'd rather concentrate on animation or background art than taking on this difficult position. I think I'd get a better sense of fullfillment out of it and have more fun doing that (laughs). Being a director is really hard (laughs).

――Still, there are a lot of people waiting for "Toriko", please do your best. Does it look like there are still some heavy hurdles until release (of the game)?

My personal creative work is mostly finished but I feel there are still some turning points ahead of us. We have to do our best at polishing the game further.

――Even if you don't manage to release the game next year, I think my attitude is like "I see…, that's ok…, I'll wait till it's finished…".

No, that wouldn't be good (assertive). Games taking long, that's really not a good thing.

――You think so?

We're really not ok with things taking this long. I'm really quite bothered that people may think that we're ok with the situation, I can assure you we're always trying to release our games as fast as possible.

The thing is, video games are a "programming art" so to speak, having a character that moves doesn't make a game yet. Games are a program that comes together through the work of a lot of people and will only in the end work as a game. They're really hard to pull off.

We will do our best till release also for the sake of the fans that are waiting for the game.

――Ok then, can I ask you for a message to all the fans that are looking forward to "Hitokui no Ōwashi Toriko".

People who like animals will undoubtedly be able to enjoy this title.

――Appealing to a great number of people, I see (laughs).

Even if there are a lot of people that don't like games, people who don't like animals are surely rare I thought. In other words, I think a lot of people will be able to enjoy this game (laughs). I hope everyone looks forward to this kind of game, "Hitokui no Ōwashi Toriko".

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—Will [Gen Design] specialize in design?

Ueda: Yes, design in an all-encompassing sense. We have members that work on programs that make the portraying of certain things possible. For example, there are experiments and plans in regard to new ways of rendering things, if there is a better algorithm for certain tasks, those kind of things. The wind effect in the current trailer for example was done using an algorithm developed by the Gen Design studio.

[…]

--There were certain people that were rather concerned about the long time of silence after the last release of info in 2009 and the circumstances that lead to your departure from SCE as an employe. What can you tell us about that?


Ueda: While working on ICO and SotC the studio was operating as a fixed team. After development of those two titles had finished that system changed to a system of different sections and the new team was built by deploying people from those sections. That's something totally natural for a studio with a lot of pipelines. It’s a system that makes it possible to use people efficiently and guaranteeing that everyone is given a task at any time. In the planning phase of a project for example only a handful of people are needed but for the latter half of development you need a lot of people. In that sense, i. e. managing a project without wasting resources, this approach is certainly the right thing to do. However, with video game development the individual skills of team members are still very important, that's why it's hard to always get the right person for the job. This is another characteristic of this system. Solving this problem and establishing a structure that's even better, that's the role Gen Design plays I think.

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--You've already explained how, different from the trailer, it would also be possible for the boy to climb Toriko before the jump, will the possibility to solve situations in more than one way be an element of the game that is everywhere at play?

Ueda: The gameplay trailer might have looked a bit like a cut-scene I think but you're able to control the boy at any moment. To rephrase this in a simple way, the possibility of a game-over is given at all times. In other words, if you make an error controlling the boy and you fall it's game-over. At the end of the demo there's a scene where the boy grabs the tail of Toriko after a jump, of course you can also fail at this. If the player voluntarily stops grabbing the tail the boy will fall and the player will get a game-over. That means that the game is at all times in a playable state.

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--At the E3 session you said "Everything you can see, you can go to". That's was very impressive.

Ueda: In the trailer we showed this time it might have looked like the background scenery was just that, but it is in fact more than that. That doesn't mean that you can go there directly but every background is a working game stage. They are not just created to increase the information volume of the background, they have an actual meaning as game stage.

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--During the trailer there is a slow-motion effect when the boy jumps toward Toriko, will every action scene have this kind of effect?

[…]

Ueda: No, not every action sequence. In the E3 trailer the most important scene was the one where the boy grabs Toriko's tail. This scene originally had the slow-motion effect but since the scene where Toriko catches the boy with his mouth, i. e. the first jump, was intended to foreshadow the second jump, we treated it in the same way and added the slow-motion effect.

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