This recent PSA from the UK’s “This is Abuse” campaign takes aim at the misconception that rape is something that only happens in dark alleys and at the hands of a stranger.

“Anyone who has been pressured to have sex without giving their consent has been raped,” the campaign’s website stresses. The video makes it even simpler: “Sex with someone who doesn’t want to is rape.”

I really like the framing of this – “if you could see yourself, would you see rape?” – because so many studies show that men who would be okay with coercing a woman into sex wouldn’t consider it rape. Most guys, if asked, will acknowledge that of course, rape is awful. But, as Thomas Macaulay Millar wrote at Yes Means Yes! a few years ago, “if a survey asks men, for example, if they ever ‘had sexual intercourse with somone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated (on alcohol or drugs) to resist your sexual advances,’ some of them will say yes, as long as the questions don’t use the ‘R’ word.”

I also like that, as confronting as it is to watch, this PSA challenges the conception that I think a lot of guys have, which is that rapists are the Other. One of the reasons this video is so very hard to watch is that it’s about acknowledging the possibility, at least, that you are capable of sexual violence, especially if you don’t know where the line between consensual sex and rape lies. This is not about the Other, some stranger in an alleyway somewhere. This could be one of your mates. It could be your brother. It could be you.

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‘had sexual intercourse with somone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated (on alcohol or drugs) to resist your sexual advances,’ some of them will say yes, as long as the questions don’t use the ‘R’ word.”

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Battersea Power Station said:

Ohhhhhh, that's what it is.

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Battersea Power Station said:

Ohhhhhh, that's what it is.

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Always-honest said:

penetrating your world

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Angry Grimace said:

Is there really a problem with people "accidentally" raping people?

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My guess is that most rapists are pretty aware they are rapists.

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Count Dookkake said:

Anyway, I don't really think these PSAs will alter anyone's behavior.

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Count Dookkake said:

Ethical concerns aside, I just don't get why you'd want to have sex with someone who is passed out.

Anyway, I don't really think these PSAs will alter anyone's behavior.

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The_Technomancer said:

The fuck? I can see there being debate about weather a person who gives consent while intoxicated is really giving consent but...seriously, if they're just too drunk to resist there are guys who don't consider that rape?

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"Usually the bystander absolves himself of any complicity. "Hey, don't look at me," he shouts in protest, "I never raped anyone." And he's usually right. But neither did he intervene at a party when it seemed clear that someone was about to be raped. Nor did he refrain from spreading the rumor about some girl who got "trained" or gang banged, nor say to anyone that he thought such behavior was gross and wrong, let alone illegal.

Rather, here is what he is more likely to say:

Girls are continually fed drinks of alcohol. It's mainly to party but my roomies are also aware of the inhibition-lowering effects. I've seen an old roomie block doors when girls want to leave his room; and other times I've driven women home who can't remember much of an evening yet sex did occur. Rarely if ever has a night of drinking for my roommate ended without sex. I know it isn't necessarily and assuredly sexual assault, but with the amount of liquor in the house, I question the amount of consent a lot."​

That's one guy's description of a party at his fraternity house. He questions it, but doesn't ever have a chat with his roommate, nor does he intervene if he thinks there is a possibility of assault. This is where the dynamics of Guyland are in plain view: Bros before Hos.

The culture of silence both enables the worst of the guys in their predatory behaviors and at the same time prevents the best of the guys from speaking up about what they really think about all this sexual predation. Challenging your roommates, stepping in to stop sex from happening when a woman is clearly too drunk either to consent or to refuse sex, is a betrayal of brotherhood. In a sexual culture where men and women are seen as being on opposite teams, where men are mandated to "get over" on women and women are mandated to "protect themselves" from sexual assault, scoring one for the team is crucial. If you refuse to "score" yourself, you are at least expected not to block the shot for your buddies. In this setup, defending or protecting a woman is worse than switching teams; it's an act of treason.

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The words ring in my ears today as if they were just spoken. "When it comes to sex, never take no for an answer." Or this: "Look, girls have to say no, evne if they want to do it. It's part of being a girl. So if they say no, they're really saying yes. They still really want you to..."

"If she wants to hear that you love her, tell her you love her. If she wants to hear that you'll marry her, tell her you'll marry her. The most important thing is to keep going. Don't stop. If she says no, keep going. If she pushes your hand away, keep going. You only stop if she hits you."

My generation's 'dating etiquette' is now called sexual assault. You can't keep going if she says no. You can't keep going if she pushes your hand away, or if she hits you. Today, guys know that the rules are completely different.

Or do they?

When I mentioned this story to my class recently at Stony Brook, one of the guys looked up at me and shook his head. "It's not 'don't stop until she hits you.' It's 'don't stop until she hurts you'" Time and again, on college campuses, guys told me something similar:

Girls "have to say no" to protect their reputations, they "mean yes, even if they say no" and "if she's drunk and semiconscious, she's willing.

It's really confusing," says Jake, who graduated from Yale two years ago.

I mean, like, really really confusing. On the one hand, like every week you have some dorm seminar or lecture on sexual assault, and like a constant buzz about what's "appropriate" and all, and on the other hand you go to a party on the weekend and it's like everything they said to avoid, everything that is, like, completely illegal and off-limits.

"Like what?" I ask.

Like trying to get girls drunk so they'll have sex with you. Like, I dunno, lying to them, or like telling them how interested you are in them and how much you like them and all, when it's completely not true, and all you really want to do is have sex with them and then get the hell out of there."​

"Omigod, the lies we tell," says Bill, his roommate and fellow grad, a big grin on his face.

Like sometimes I can't believe what I've done to get laid. Like, I've said said, "I'll only put it in a little" - can you fucking believe that? Like, "I won't come in your mouth." Like...

At this point, though, Bill begins to look a little sheepish.

Like, well, look, I know this isn't PC and all, but a couple of times I've pushed girls' heads down on me, and like one time this girl was so drunk she was near passed out, and I kind of dragged her into my room and had sex with her. When she sort of came to a little bit, she was really upset and started crying and asked why I had done that. I think I said something like, "because you were so pretty" or some bullshit, but realy it was because, well, because I was drunk and wanted to get laid. And she was, like, there.​

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The_Technomancer said:

The fuck? I can see there being debate about weather a person who gives consent while intoxicated is really giving consent but...seriously, if they're just too drunk to resist there are guys who don't consider that rape?

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Menelaus said:

Then my wife is a rape victim of staggering proportions.

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It's really confusing," says Jake

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samus i am said:

Drunk sex is best sex.

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Gaborn said:

Story Here

Video Here

The video is very very edgy (I don't think it crosses the line though) but it has a great message that really should be understood by more people.

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The_Technomancer said:

The fuck? I can see there being debate about weather a person who gives consent while intoxicated is really giving consent but...seriously, if they're just too drunk to resist there are guys who don't consider that rape?

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samus i am said:

Drunk sex is best sex.

Spoiler

When consensual.

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GoldenEye 007 said:

In my state, Florida, the legal understanding is that technically anyone under the influence of alcohol or drugs (legal or illegal) is incapable of consenting to sex. No distinction is made for normal social situations. You're technically taking a grave legal risk if you pursue someone that would be able to prove there was alcohol or drugs in their system at the time intercourse or other sexual activity occurred.

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The_Technomancer said:

Right, that's where even a shred of grey area enters the situation: is consent while intoxicated still consent. Where I can't believe anyone considered there to be grey area is if they're both intoxicated and there's no form of seeming consent.

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Devolution said:

There are plenty of men, on this forum no less, that think rape only involves physical violence.

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DeathNote said:

People on this forum would legit say "If I held my g/f or wife down while she was saying no and crying it's not rape."

They need to be banned then..

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Rabbitwork said:

eh, i think people might be shocked at how many primate-men think rape means it has to be violent with screaming in a dark alley.

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Devolution said:

No people would say that rape is only rape if it's physically forcing someone to have sex with them, ignoring that there are other coercive and predatory means to do so.

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